Beginning game

[lbores]

My first base is built and I'm choosing my next research goal (blind off). Should I choose Mobility or Eco (formers?) Basically I'm asking how important is exploration in the early game? Popping pods which might give you a free rover or energy seems that early exploration gets the nod. But you can do that with a scout patrol albeit 1 tile at a time. So I guess the real (or second question) is: how fast do you really need to explore?

I understand the value of terraforming tiles but is that an urgent thing in very-early game?

[Myronides]

Yes, it is! I always chose that first. DM is my 3rd or 4rth tech to research for, depending on the faction I 'm playing. If you play the UoP for intance, don't you beeline for SoHB to get that free tech before the others do?

[Dimension]

Beelining for Secrets of the Human Brain just isn't all it's cracked up to be. That's three techs you're getting just for the purpose of getting a free one, which is putting your infrastructure/crawlers back really far.

I think just about everybody gets Centauri Ecology first to start cranking out formers. Even if you're going to SotHB, you want to start on your terraforming. Even if you're going for an all-out rover rush, you want to get your forests and a few roads up to help produciton.

Anyway, I think 99% of people get Centauri Ecology then beeline for Industrial Automation. It never lets you go directly for Industrial Automation without getting another level 1 tech, in which case I generally get Social Psych so I can rush the ocasional Rec Commons.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Lbores,

If you are a builder then the following is a normally good approach.

Centauri Ecology - formers as a first tech and VW Sp
Network Nodes
Industrial base - Synth armor
Planetary networks - Probes and Planned SE
Industrial Economy - FM SE
Industrial Auto - CRAWLERS !!!
then go back and get

Social Psych - Rec Commons
Biogenetics - Rec Tanks & HGP SP

Then move onto restriction lifting

If you want to be a hybrid somewhere along the way detour to Laser Tech/ Impact weapons and mobility

If you are in a conquest mode, after net nodes immediately go for mobility laser and impact.

No matter what tho' almost all factions it makes sense to get formers and net nodes out of the way as they are important to whichever path you wish to follow.

Caveat there are times to forgo formers as your first tech. Morgan has advantages of going for biogeneitcs and rush building the rec tanks ASAP then going back and getting formers and the rest of the builder techs.

Jus my thoughts.

Og

[Purple]

The beginning game is my favorite. I love the exploration and early building phase and only reluctantly shift into military mode, but try to postpone it as long as possible.

I begin each game hoping I'm on a medium to large continent with no competition for turf and pods. On that basis I go for the SoHB beeline and defer researching the techs that give transport. I try to time it so that when the home continent is fully explored, the explorers have the means to go to the next landmass.

Of course, you can't always get what you want, and you have to be flexible enough to modify your strategy as events require.

Seems like "It depends" is the most frequent answer to strategy questions, doesn't it?

BTW is it IBORES or LBORES?

[lbores]

quote: Originally posted by Purple on 02-20-2001 04:23 PM The beginning game is my favorite. I love the exploration and early building phase and only reluctantly shift into military mode, but try to postpone it as long as possible. BTW is it IBORES or LBORES?

You play/enjoy the game just as I do. Sometimes I'll save the first part and then replay the beginning over and over to 'fine-tune' it. Actually, I'm just squeezing the enjoyment out of it.

And it's L Bores. TFA.

[Kinjiru]

For me the first couple of techs would be completly determined by map size.

If you are playing anything other than Huge, then the chances for a very early contact are high. The smaller the map, the higher hte chance.

If you are likely going to run into someone in your first 15 turns, then you better be prepared militarly. So, go for rovers, and then better weaponry.

If you are playing a big map, then you will probably have enough time to get your terraforming started before you need to worry about your military.

Of course, I haven't played directed tech since my first couple of games...

[knowhow2]

Just wanna mention that getting to a SP first could be important. For a example, VW is important to UoP, ME is important for Morgan and Command Nexus could be quite useful to Yang. So even though the Cent Eco is the obvious first choice/priority, the next choice depends on what strategy you're using/playing.

But in the case of the pirates, is Centauri Ecology just as important? Because I usually aim straight for Industrial Base, so that I can upgrade those slow moving unity foils to a faster, armoured transport.

Besides, it takes 13 turns to build the sea former after you've researched the technology. I'd rather use that time and build a Synthmetal Transport and go pod-popping first.

[Aredhran]

Just a nitpick

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe on 02-20-2001 03:58 PM Centauri Ecology - formers as a first tech and VW Sp Network Nodes Industrial base - Synth armor Planetary networks - Probes and Planned SE Industrial Economy - FM SE Industrial Auto - CRAWLERS !!! then go back and get Social Psych - Rec Commons Biogenetics - Rec Tanks & HGP SP Then move onto restriction lifting

CentEco gives you WP (Weather Paradigm), not VW (Virtual World) which comes with PlaNets.

Aredhran

[Sikander]

Assuming directed research and a decent research faction it is almost always faster to go for Industrial Automation first, and then get the tech for that crucial SP. By the time you have the tech, your industrial might is ready to either quickly build the SP, or perhaps has already built it by storing sufficient production in the form of crawlers. Building an SP in one city is slow.

I just played a game today on Dilithium Dad's Ultimate Builder map. I'm the University, and am sharing my continent with Lal, Morgan, and Miriam (though Lal was the only one right next to me). I started cranking out colony pods, formers and forest while I beelined to industrial auto. Then I built tons of crawlers until 5 of my bases were producing 15-16 minerals apeice. Then I built the HGP, (went FM) WP, VW, PTS, and (that Command Center Thing) while simultaneously kicking Lal's butt and turing him into my submissive. Now I'm going to take those same forces and turn on Morgan, while pop booming. (Tree farms are about 6 turns away)

Tech Order:

Industrial Base
Industry Econ
Planetary Nets
Industrial Auto
Biogenetics
Social Psych
SOTHB

(normally I go for restriction lifting here, but Lal was breathing down my neck, so I grabbed Mobility, Lasers and Impact and whipped up a little force to kick his butt)

Base build order:

Former
Scout Patrol
(early) Colony Pod
(Later) supply crawler
recycling tanks
about 4-5 more crawlers
Rec Commons when necessary


That should leave each base at 16 minerals or so, enough to build a crawler at least every other turn. Oh, it really helps to be running Planned / Wealth while you are industrializing so that you can really crank out stuff at that 20% discount. Also it helps to have your mature bases crank out crawlers for your newer bases to get them up to speed.

After my early SPs are built:

Children's Creche
Energy Bank (I sometimes build the PEG instead)
Tree Farm

[Pop Boom]

Hab Complex

Using this technique with the University I can get all but perhaps 2-3 SPs in the entire game if I start alone on a decent sized continent. Early on you have to build them very quickly, as there are a lot of SPs available to the AI with very little tech. If I get a warning that an AI faction is about to finish the HGP for instance, I had better complete the HGP this turn, and the WP next turn or they will almost always switch production and get one. I usually forgo the ME (I don't SSC with the University anyway), but sometimes the AI economies are such that I can get it also. I often have to let Deirdre have the Empath Guild as well because that tech is not on my menu for quite some time.

[Blake]

First: NEVER pop pods with your starting unity foil. That's just asking for it.

If your on a small island it is very good idea to set research to EXPLORE until you have doc:Flex. Often Cent.Eco tends to be the first regardless of what your research settings. You'll get much more tech from meeting and trading with other factions than you'll ever research by yourself (that's in the fist 100 years).

Pro SOB argument follows

Alternate, if you are the Cult, Progies or Zak set goal to DISCOVER and you have excellent chance of getting SOB first. I like SOB because it gives trance ability and fundie, which you can fall back on if you find yourself in a s*it sandwich. The Cult particullary has excellent chance of getting SOB using blind research.

I consider the *very* early conquer tech tree to be
Cent. Eco (Forests to slow enemies + early resources)
Biogenetics
Social Pysch
SOB
Cent. Empathy
Then:
Progy Pysch
Resonance Fields
Bioadaptive Resonance (6r weapon)

And hopefully also get Inf.Net and Plan.Net (also on discover)

Mindworms are generally much more effective than standard units, and tend to fare just as well as impact weapons against Proggies. Plus they are free, clean, and provide a handy income. On directed research I've used that tech line to beat H'minee as Morgan. Fundie, Green turns even morgan into a lean mean killing machine (AND that was on rare native life). Later I switched to Wealth and my worm troops kept there high morale.

So MY advice for when you find yourself trapped between an Alien and a hard place is to bee-line SOB and Cent. Empathy. Because tech doesn't always go your way get Plan.Net too. The MOST important thing is survival, as long as you survive you can always just probe all those build techs you missed out on. The easiest way to surive is mindworms and probe teams. So on blind set research to EXPLORE and DISCOVER in order to CONQUER

Mindworms are also wonderfull against Yang, who has the nasty tendancy to get High.E Chem early for those super-hard to dislodge plasma garrisons.

And who needs rovers when you have mindworms, which move 3 tiles in fungus, don't suffer hasty penalty and heal in fungus.

Btw I'm a builder by trade, so I'm all for bee-line IndAuto, restriction lifting. But always rememeber, you can't build if your dead. And if you are forced to fight instead of build you can catch up with probe teams. Whatever you do don't let booger scare you into restarting, you'll never learn anything that way (Also remember aliens always backstab, so don't even think about building with one next to you, kill it then build)

[Rift]

It depends on what faction I'm playing, and what map size. Here are my suggestions:

Builder Style:

HQ:
Former
Scout Patrol
Colony Pod
Recyclying Tanks
2 Crawlers
Former
Colony Pod
Rover
Network Node

Base 2:
Former
Scout Patrol
Recycling Tank
Crawler
Weather Paradigm

Base 3:
Former
Rover
Network Node
Former
Colony Pod

Hybrid Style (I get crawlers relatively late when playing this style, so I'm not going to add them):

HQ:
Rover
2 Formers
Colony Pod
Recycling Tank
Rover
Network Node

Base 1:
Former
Rover
Former
Colony Pod
Weather Paradigm

Base 2:
Former
2 Rovers
Recycling Tank
Laser Squad

Momemtum Style:
HQ:
Rover
2 Formers
Colony Pod
Crank out rovers/laser squads

Base 1:
Former
Rovers/Laser Squads

[knowhow2]

Guys,

This is all great tips. But they 're all base on the fact that you use direct research. I myself (and many with me I guess) still prefer blind or even double-blind. With that set up you can hardly pre-decide what to build in ever step on the building order. For example; once, I played the drones and for the first 20 turns all I built was troops and colony pods. And I was on a small island! (the transport got destroyed early)

edt. spelling spelling spelling

[This message has been edited by knowhow2 (edited March 14, 2001).]

[johndmuller]

I agree that trading accounts for lots of techs in the early game.

With that in mind, it seems that one might be able to tale advantage of judicious selection of techs (or CATEGORIES in blind research) in order to have the most desirable trade material. In other words, if you have a tech that noone else has, you might be able to trade it to each of the other players for one of their techs. Of course, once you've traded it, the other person is now your competition for other players, but you still have gotten a leg up; we could call this Trade Advantage.

Not that I've ever played this way, but this notion could undermine some of the logic behind all the Tech Tree theories. Looking at the (SMAC) chart, some Techs (or CATEGORIES) lead to more subsequent Techs than others and in some cases, those subsequent techs are at level III or IV which means they won't come into play for a while. By this standard, CONQUER and EXPLORE in general and Centauri Ecology in particular are not very good for generating trade material as they lead to only a few level II Techs - not to mention the fact that everyone following the advice earlier in this thread would have already produced Centauri Ecology. On the other hand BUILD and DISCOVER provide all the prerequsites for 4 of the 9 level II Techs and 2 of the 6 level III Techs (without any CONQUER or EXPLORE Techs) and supply a necessary prerequisite for all but 1 of the level II and III Techs (D:Flexibility).

Following a Trade Strategy leaves you largely at the mercy of your trade partners for some important early Techs, and you would have to adjust your selections (or CATEGORIES) according to who your actual trading partners turned out to be. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't usually even think of turning down a trade unless I'm giving something really major like Fussion Power or D:Air Power to a dangerous opponent (and even then I might do it anyway). About the only things that are worthless to get in a trade are Techs (mostly weapons) you have already surpassed and which are prerequisites for Techs you have already gotten in trade). Going with the BUILD and DISCOVER combo gives you a high expectation of decent passive-defensive Techs and if you are using directed research, you always have the option to take an otherwise illusive weapon or Centauri Tech.

This strategy is probably more appropriate for human opponents, but the AI does follow known tendencies so you could just use complimentary CATEGORIES to your neighbors/trading partners. Trading with the AI can only be assumed in the early game - even your pactmates will hold out on you if they want to build an SP - but they do make trades (sometimes dumb ones) in the later game (and seem to make all possible trades before stopping) so if you are still alive, your patience will be rewarded.

[Sikander]

Trading techs can be very rewarding, especially for a slow research faction. However for a faction like the University using directed research I tend to be fairly careful, as there are a couple of pitfalls. Firstly, you can get bumped out of an important early beeline, and end up behind schedule for a crucial tech (like IA, or Treefarms). Secondly, each tech raises the price of the next. Beefing up with a bunch of marginal techs early can really slow down your research rate for those techs which may be more critical for your ability to grow, and thus retain a decent research rate. Playing the University I tend to have a small tech trade window. While I am small and weak enough that the others are willing to trade, I often don't want to (especially when they offer weapons techs). Once I am willing to trade I usually don't have much time if any to do so before my powergraph puts the AI off.

My favorite tech trading faction is the pirates. They often have a bit of a slow start, which helps ingratiate them to the AI, and their rapid moving ships allow them to meet and greet more quickly than anyone else. It is usually easy to end up in a "tech broker" situation, where you are the middleman in a series of trades, and can end up with a sizable tech lead.