Bug?

0bsidi0n · February 13, 2003, 01:26

I'm really tempted to say this is a bug; hopefully someone can set me straight. I cannot get any AI civ to change their opinion of me. (Example) I've given the French every city and tech I can, and they are still furious with me. They will sign mp pacts and are still furious. I do happen to be the dominant civ, but this is ridiculous- I've never had it this bad before, where I couldn't even 'buy' a friend! Any thoughts, or is this how the game is supposed to run?

wilbill · February 13, 2003, 01:36

At some point in the game you've done something to damage your reputation with the AI's. Sounds like something serious - ROP Rape, destroyed a civ or two, broke a treaty or a gpt trade deal. Being dominant doesn't help, but probably isn't the primary cause.
On the other hand if you're way ahead of them and going to win the game, why lose sleep over their opinion of you?

Jaybe · February 13, 2003, 01:51

There is also the matter of having taken their Workers and kept them working! Either give/trade them back or assimilate them into your cities. If you don't they WILL stay furious.

Also, once you are the dominant civ, the others DO get jealous and it does not help your reputation. THEY wanted to be dominant. BTW, they may still respect you (assuming you've deserved it) though they hate your guts!

Alex · February 13, 2003, 09:29

I don't mind if they like me or not, I want them to respect my power.

(hm, this sounds like something that Bush would say...)

Theseus · February 14, 2003, 20:55

General agreement with the above comments... attitude can be very easy to screw up, more or less permanently.

How dominant are you?

I've found that even in games where I've been a complete bastard that I can turn it around in the late industrial to early modern era. Remember, the value of techs goes through the roof here, and the remaining larger civs value your luxuries that much more.

HolyWarrior · February 15, 2003, 00:59

Quote:

Originally posted by 0bsidi0n
(Example) I've given the French every city and tech I can, and they are still furious with me. They will sign mp pacts and are still furious. I do happen to be the dominant civ, but this is ridiculous-

Dude, have you been paying attention to the news? This sounds EXACTLY like what the French thinks of the U.S.

The U.S. real-life response works in the game as well.
Piss the French!

0bsidi0n · February 15, 2003, 15:29

I really don't think the US offered France every city on the continent and every colony overseas. I was at war with France for a while (which they started, but whatever) and in the peace treaty I took some cities. Could holding these be causing the hatred? I've killed only two civs in the game, neither of which even had any contact with an AI, and I bought every other country to go to war with France when they attacked me. Apart from dominating, this is all I have done. Is that really such a bad rep?

Ribannah · February 15, 2003, 16:49

It just takes time. Gift them something now, something else a few turns later, and if you keep it up they will start to become more polite again.

CerberusIV · February 15, 2003, 18:21

Did you make peace with France whilst an alliance with someone else against the French was still running. This really annoys the AI.

I have just done this in my own game and the Ottomans and Persians are annoyed with me. I know I can't change that but since I am planning to wipe them out it doesn't matter to me.

Ribannah · February 15, 2003, 18:50

You CAN change that, if you want.

0bsidi0n · February 16, 2003, 17:58

That brings up a question Cerberus; if I sign a military alliance against the French, then make peace with them while my ally still fights with them, which one hates me? Both seem to. All this stupid diplomatic crap just makes me want to kill everyone... But my military alliance question still stands- I'm really curious.

Catt · February 17, 2003, 13:56

Quote:

Originally posted by 0bsidi0n
That brings up a question Cerberus; if I sign a military alliance against the French, then make peace with them while my ally still fights with them, which one hates me? Both seem to. All this stupid diplomatic crap just makes me want to kill everyone... But my military alliance question still stands- I'm really curious.

If you make peace while the military alliance is still active, you have broken your word -- the whole known world learns that you are untrustworthy with respect to 20-turn deals. But "hate" is a reflection of AI attitudes -- although attitudes and reputation are ogten linked and affected in similar ways by certain actions, they do operate independently. In your specific example, I'd say that it is a good guess that your enemy is furious with you because you made war against it, and dragged in a partner to boot! France could be furious becuase you dragged it into a war, and then left it without its expected ally, fighting another civ all on its own. There seem to be many factors that affect AI attitudes, so my points are merely guesses, and guesses which, even if correct, only contribute part of the picture.

The important thing to remember is that reputation (breaking deals) and atrtitude (reflection of standing and bilateral relations) are different concepts, affected by different factors.

Catt

0bsidi0n · February 18, 2003, 14:18

That's great Catt, thank you very much! I had no idea military alliances were 20 turn deals! I guess I am untrustworthy....