Has Belgium gone mad? - Page 3

Ozz · February 13, 2003, 16:12

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
in the hallways of the belgian justice palace yesterday some people skoke on going and getting Arik ones he is no longer PM of Israel , ..... well they can try , .... we shall be waiting , .....

I think they said the same in Yugoslavia/Serbia about
their leader who was accused and is now on trial for
war Crimes.

Of course Sharon isn't the first, Begin was the first
criminal (terrorist) PM of Israel wasn't he?

Eli · February 13, 2003, 16:15

Nope, it was Ben Gurion. Under his rule hundreds of thousands of Arabs(today Palestinians) fled/were expelled from Israel.

SpencerH · February 13, 2003, 16:15

Thanks for pointing that out Frogger, my apologies for not reading it more carefully

More from the Israeli perspective:
http://www.arutzsheva.org/news.php3?id=38910

Quote:

Attorney-General Elyakim Rubenstein said that the Belgian ruling has "nothing to do with justice; it's just politics. A normal country can't allow a legal system to operate on its own in a bubble, like a UFO, without paying attention to simple facts... Israel's judicial system is certainly of no less quality than that of Belgium, and we investigated the Sabra and Shatila massacres with the Kahan Commission, and found no criminal culpability...

SpencerH · February 13, 2003, 16:20

This is the summary from the Kahan commission that investigated the events

Quote:

The Commission determined that the massacre at Sabra and Shatilla was carried out by a Phalangist unit, acting on its own but its entry was known to Israel. No Israeli was directly responsible for the events which occurred in the camps. But the Commission asserted that Israel had indirect responsibility for the massacre since the I.D.F. held the area, Mr. Begin was found responsible for not exercising greater involvement and awareness in the matter of introducing the Phalangists into the camps. Mr. Sharon was found responsible for ignoring the danger of bloodshed and revenge when he approved the entry of the Phalangists into the camps as well as not taking appropriate measures to prevent bloodshed. Mr. Shamir erred by not taking action after being alerted by communications Minister Zippori. Chief of Staff Eitan did not give the appropriate orders to prevent the massacre. The Commission recommended that the Defense Minister resign, that the Director of Military Intelligence not continue in his post and other senior officers be removed.

I was on duty that day (and in the days following) monitoring the events and that pretty much agrees with what I remember happening 20 years ago.

Ozz · February 13, 2003, 16:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli
Nope, it was Ben Gurion. Under his rule hundreds of thousands of Arabs(today Palestinians) fled/were expelled from Israel.

Oh, I has refering to Begin's Stern gang membership.

Belgium having convicted Sharon must have strong
evidence to prove it.

I wonder if Sharon's political rivals have clean hands, or they all alike?

KrazyHorse · February 13, 2003, 16:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli
Nope, it was Ben Gurion. Under his rule hundreds of thousands of Arabs(today Palestinians) fled/were expelled from Israel.

I say again: who are you, and what have you done with Eli?

SpencerH · February 13, 2003, 16:33

Belgium havent convicted anyone. Their supreme court has simply agreed that the cases can go forward.

Eli · February 13, 2003, 16:37

http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...754499,00.html

An interesting read.

Quote:

I say again: who are you, and what have you done with Eli?

I'm just trying to lead him to the absurd conclusion that the entire state of Israel consists of war criminals and child killers.

Quote:

I wonder if Sharon's political rivals have clean hands, or they all alike?

Mitzna was a general... Participated in a couple of wars, was responsible for implementing Rabin's "break their legs" policy during the first Intifada.

But it's not important for the world media... He's a leftist, so his alleged crimes can be ignored.

Panag · February 13, 2003, 16:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozz

Oh, I has refering to Begin's Stern gang membership.

Belgium having convicted Sharon must have strong
evidence to prove it.

I wonder if Sharon's political rivals have clean hands, or they all alike?

hi ,

evidence , pffffff , they cant even bring evidence forward against the people who killed 10 belgian paracommandos in kigali in rwanda 94 , .....

what are they going to do then against Arik , .....pffffffff

they have a courtcase against yasser , but that one is not acceptable they claim , ...... hippocrits , ......

if they keep up the stupid views they have , international companies gonna stay away from belgium , .... first the nato thing with turkey on monday morning , now this , ......

and they cut in the wallets they have , less revenue is less tax , is less money , .... 35.2 % of the worlds diamont trade passes true antwerp belgium , .....

the import from goods made in Israel superseeds twice the import from all the arab nations together , ...... they are shooting themselfs the fools , ......

well Bibi and Katsav wrote it good , .....

have a nice day

Eli · February 13, 2003, 17:01

Quote:

and they cut in the wallets they have , less revenue is less tax , is less money , .... 35.2 % of the worlds diamont trade passes true antwerp belgium , .....

You know... Sometimes there are moments when you realize that there are things everyone but you know.

For the last 10 years I was 100% sure Antwerp is in Switzerland.

KrazyHorse · February 13, 2003, 17:06

It's a famous port

Ozz · February 13, 2003, 17:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli
I'm just trying to lead him to the absurd conclusion that the entire state of Israel consists of war criminals and child killers.

No, but they may be guilty of aiding and abetting a
criminal.

I didn't think any of they would have clean hands.

I like this:

35.2 % of the worlds diamont trade passes true antwerp belgium

The diamonds don't come from Israel do they now.
You think the diamond traders are going to pack
up and move to Israel? They are'nt stupid......pffffffff

Panag · February 13, 2003, 17:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli

Quote:

and they cut in the wallets they have , less revenue is less tax , is less money , .... 35.2 % of the worlds diamont trade passes true antwerp belgium , .....

You know... Sometimes there are moments when you realize that there are things everyone but you know.

For the last 10 years I was 100% sure Antwerp is in Switzerland.

hi ,

, .......

allas it seems that most people in belgium in the parlement think the same , ...... they have no idea with what the heck they are buzzzzy with , .....

hey they got ten million people , and five governments , ......

and they are going to teach us , ......

at least we give rights to immigrants and refugees , ..... unlike them , and then they call themselves a democrazy , .......

pffffffffffff , we should start to boycott them , imagine those taxes of 35.2 % of the world trade in diamonts , ...... imagine we move to Athens Greece , ... Simitis would love to collect those taxes , ....

and the belgians trow it all away , well the politicians do , ......

have a nice day

Eli · February 13, 2003, 17:15

Quote:

The diamonds don't come from Israel do they now.
You think the diamond traders are going to pack
up and move to Israel? They are'nt stupid......pffffffff

Actually Tel Aviv is on the top of the Diamonds bussiness, together with Antwerp and New York.

Panag · February 13, 2003, 17:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozz

No, but they may be guilty of aiding and abetting a
criminal.

I didn't think any of they would have clean hands.

I like this:

35.2 % of the worlds diamont trade passes true antwerp belgium

The diamonds don't come from Israel do they now.
You think the diamond traders are going to pack
up and move to Israel? They are'nt stupid......pffffffff

hi ,

why not , most of them are jews , .....

that makes them Israeli , ....

and Ramat - Gan would love to see them coming

why should they stay in a country that hates them , ..... who is stupid here , the belgian are for doing what they are doing , ..... they are cutting in the revenue , and cut there you cut in the amount of tax income you get , .... one thing the belgians have not figured out yet , .....

they do the same with turkey , .... hey , according to some belgians it has an evil axis with Israel , so they both should get out , .....

have a nice day

Lefty Scaevola · February 13, 2003, 17:20

If they lock Sharon up in Belgium, it will alleviate food shortages in Israel, but put a serious strain on the Belium prison budget.

KrazyHorse · February 13, 2003, 17:21

Ned · February 13, 2003, 17:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli
Some new MKs(Members of the Knesset) offered a new "bill" according to which every Belgian parliament member who voted for this thingie will be arrested when visiting Israel and accused of something along the lines of subversion.

Why doesn't Israel simply issue an ultimatum, that Belgium withdraws the law or there exists a state of war between the two countries -- declared by Belgium.

This will help prevent a NATO response to an Israeli invasion and occupation.

My God, how would Chirac behave if the Israeli army were poised on his borders?

He may be a little more respectful.

KrazyHorse · February 13, 2003, 17:41

Quote:

This will help prevent a NATO response to an Israeli invasion and occupation

I wonder if you've ever read the NATO mandate.

Ned · February 13, 2003, 17:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor
More seriously, it indeed goes both ways. I wonder if there are people here who think that :
- Belgium is wrong to sue Sharon
- the US is right to bomb Iraq for Saddam removal (official pretext some people here believe)

Both are exactly the same thing : a country which wants to extend its values to other sovereign countries, and uses law or force to do so. The opposite would be not to judge how internal affairs are done by the neighbours.
However, the Belgian trial, like the American war, is completely hypocite and has political reasons. Belgium doesn't seem to be too eager to sue Putin despite the terrible crimes perpetrated in Chechnya, and the US doesn't seem too eager to punish a Mugabe-like despot.

Both cases are pretty similar IMHO, excet that the US will reach their objective, unlike Belgium, because they have bigger guns.

The obvious problem with Belgium doing this is that anytime they arrest a soldier or politician of another country without that country's consent is that they are committing acts of war. Belgium picks on mighty Rawanda now because Rawanda cannot fight back or may actually agree with Belgium's actions. But, if they arrest Putin, they may cause a war between Russian and Belgium.

Now, what is NATO's role in this? I would hope none, because Belgium is the nation provoking the war. They really have no business being the judge and jury over other nations.

So, when Israel invades, I hope NATO stands aside. If the French and Germans support Belgium, I hope we support Israel. Those f*cking French and Germans need to understand why it is important to not stab the United States in the back.

Ozz · February 13, 2003, 17:45

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

why not , most of them are jews , .....

that makes them Israeli , ....

I would hope they would be honest and loyal Belguim
citizens, worthy of the respect and trust of their fellow
citizens regardless of their religion.

Belgium just has higher moral values than you can understand, if you think you can bribe them.

Ned · February 13, 2003, 17:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger

Quote:

This will help prevent a NATO response to an Israeli invasion and occupation

I wonder if you've ever read the NATO mandate.

After's Belgium's veto of support for Turkey from Iraq, it deserves no further NATO support.

KrazyHorse · February 13, 2003, 17:50

Read the mandate, sweetheart.

Ozz · February 13, 2003, 17:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
I hope we support Israel.

Those f*cking French and Germans need to understand why it is important to not stab the United States in the back.

Oh you will, they control your foreign policy.

No, they need to understand what kind of country they
were allied with. Disagreeing with America becomes "stab in the back". Now they know

What Ally except UK and Israel HASN'T been insulted and threatened by the USA. In less than a year the
USA has gone from Leader of the west to international
pariah.

The Mask is torn.

Panag · February 13, 2003, 17:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned

Why doesn't Israel simply issue an ultimatum, that Belgium withdraws the law or there exists a state of war between the two countries -- declared by Belgium.

This will help prevent a NATO response to an Israeli invasion and occupation.

My God, how would Chirac behave if the Israeli army were poised on his borders?

He may be a little more respectful.

hi ,

huh , if we take over the turcs , we would still nee to cross the Greeks and Italians before our borders would come to the ones from Chirac , ....

, he could meet us halfway , .....

actually we love to do missile drills in front of his coast with our subs , .....

have a nice day

Panag · February 13, 2003, 18:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned

After's Belgium's veto of support for Turkey from Iraq, it deserves no further NATO support.

hi ,

they are obliged to help an other member , ...

the belgians have asked the americans and nato so often when they went to play in africa , now when asked to return the favor they act as if they have a nose bleed , .... hippocrits , ..... they cant even fly in one turn without refueling to congo , they always needed a us galaxcy , ...... and they dont even have to send troops , yet they veto , .....

belgium out of the nato , nato out of belgium

have a nice day

KrazyHorse · February 13, 2003, 18:04

panag, if you think we're ever giving your sh*thole of a country NATO membership, then you're fantasising

have a nice day

Eli · February 13, 2003, 18:06

Quote:

panag, if you think we're ever giving your sh*thole of a country NATO membership, then you're fantasising

I'm sorry, how many nuclear weapons Canada has?

Ned · February 13, 2003, 18:07

I agree, Panag. Belgium would not be so arrogant if it did not have NATO behind them.

Panag · February 13, 2003, 18:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger
panag, if you think we're ever giving your sh*thole of a country NATO membership, then you're fantasising

have a nice day

hi ,

we dont need nato , .....

pussies , .....

the europeans get four times more money then the yanks , and they cant eve, do half what the us can , .....

man the IDF is great , ... no nato for us , .....we can deal with our own troubles without nato , ....

look at osirak , the nato would still be debating today if it was up to them , ........

europeans , funny people , ....

have a nice day