GL Strategy

minke19104 · February 13, 2003, 15:40

After getting the Great Library, what is the best way to go?

Should I sit and relax, turning research completely off to accumulate massive amount of money, or continue going for techs that the AI do not research?

Say If England has monarchy, but noone lese has polytheism. Should I "donate" Polytheism to other civs to sort of bump them up to let them buy Monarchy from England. Thus, granting me free Monarchy faster.

I'm just curious on how ppl use their GL. Do you keep the GL as a backup for free techs while keeping research high to get the good ones faster, or you solely depend on GL for techs while building, REXing, or massively building Army to crush oppositions.

Also is it a good Idea to end GL use early if your close to Education, so you can build them Universities and hopefully JS Bach and switch to Democracy earlier than anyone else?

Any inputs are welcome...

Bluefrog · February 13, 2003, 16:09

Like everything else in Civ, it really depends on what you want to accomplish. If I’ve got a tech lead already, I normally don’t even bother to build the GL. There are just so many other things those shields could be used for. If I’m behind in tech pretty seriously, I’ll put all my effort to get the GL, and catapult myself back in the game.

I’m not sure I’m with you on the idea of donating techs when you have the GL. It goes against the grain, IMO, of the Wonder. It just doesn’t feel right, I guess.

More often than not, I’ll cut science to zero, and build up a massive treasury. You’re able to do this because, unless there is one runaway civ, you will never get more than a tech or two behind anyone. This gold can be used to upgrade troops, buy infrastructure, or to buy resources/luxuries, all of which will allow your empire to outpace the other guys. This also allows you to build libraries later…as long as you get them built before Education, you’ll be fine (unlees you want the cultural win). In fact, unless you’re going cultural, you don’t want to build your libraries until you are closing in on Education, because those libraries won’t do anything but drain your treasury on upkeep costs. The main downfall of this strat is the slow tech pace, but with some civs (read: Vikings), you don’t want the tech pace to be very quick in the medieval period, because that will limit the usefullness of your UU.

Bluefrog · February 13, 2003, 16:14

Begone, double-post daemon!

Brizey · February 13, 2003, 16:51

I think the GL is best for horseman to knight UU civs. I play the Chinese a lot, and I always go for the GL. On a typical standard map monarchy or emperor game, I typically have about 20 to 25 horseman to upgrade. At 80 gold a pop, the GL is essential. I recently had a monarch game where I had 40 horseman to upgrade. I beelined for invention and pre-built Leo's. By bee-line, I mean that I researched Invention after I got Engineering from the GL. Right around the time I got Leo's built, I got Chivalry from the GL. Perfect. 40 Riders baby!

Dominae · February 14, 2003, 09:55

I might research a government (Monarchy or Republic) if I'm not out of Despotism by the time I get the Great Library. Other than that, I always set Science to zero and focus on other things.

Dominae

DaveMcW · February 14, 2003, 12:03

I trade away every tech I get from the GL, and give it free if they have nothing to offer. The last thing you want is a single AI civ beelining for Education at 100% science because everyone is paying them for techs.

I use 0% science for most of the GL's lifespan, switching to Invention at 100% or Printing Press with 1 scientist when they become available.

BRC · February 14, 2003, 12:08

Dave makes a good point. In my latest game, I have been allowing the weaker AI's to keep pace in the tech race by selling them my techs for whatever they have. This keeps them from being able to research much, as whatever money they do have is headed my way, and it prevents the bigger AI's from becoming stronger by selling their techs away to these weaker civs. I know that it goes against common logic, but it is extremely effective, even with Ancient Age techs.

Brizey · February 15, 2003, 20:55

BRC and Dave:

I recently discovered this technique as well. It helps to keep one AI civ from getting too far ahead as well.

Theseus · February 16, 2003, 21:05

Nathan (nbarclay) is particularly good at GLib strategy.

Giving away techs is awesome... non-intuitive yes, but a great way to manage relationships and the course of geo-politics.

My principal principle (

) is that I hate just using it to be the tech laggard and save up gold... there are better and more sophisticated ways to use it.

Brizey · February 18, 2003, 11:50

Theseus:

You got to admit though, that the knight UU civs seriously benefit from the gold you can save. 1600 gold=20 instant riders! Sophisticated or not, it is effective.

anarres · February 19, 2003, 09:35

DaveMcW:

Why set a 40-turn research on Printing Press? It is one the AI never goes for, and will always be worth having first. If you get it before education either go for Invention or set to 0% and wait.

Ultimately, unless you *really* need cavalry quickly, why not get PP and be ready to go 100% Banking/Democracy?

The Pioneer · February 19, 2003, 09:50

The key lies into denying it to the AI.

So long...

DaveMcW · February 19, 2003, 11:30

annares: Unless I'm playing Deity I still get it first after 40 turns.

epics · February 19, 2003, 12:03

How do you know that a tech is worth of discovering it your self not buing from AI? Are there any tech costs shown in the game?

metalhead · February 19, 2003, 12:07

I guess I'm somewhat of a benevolent GL owner. I always bring the lesser civs into the Middle Ages for little or no cost, and will usually sell every tech I get from it to most, if not all, civs. Actually, I do this with practically every tech I research come to think of it.

I will keep science at 0 in order to stockpile some gold, which really comes in handy if you're going to mass upgrade, or for those crappy times when Education is discovered before Invention (God, I hate that!!!!) One time, I got all the way up to Metallurgy with the GL, and it seemed that all of the AI's were at war at the time, so if you want to extend the GL benefit as much as possible, it's not a bad idea to encourage a little warfare.

Once I get Theology, I go for Printing Press at the maximum research I can while still turning a profit. That tech coupled with the stockpiled gold can often times net me Banking, Astronomy, and whatever the first bottom branch tech is that I didn't get for free. I have been told before that you can take 40 turns to get Printing Press every time and still get it first, but I have been in games where an AI civ gets it 15-20 turns after Theology is discovered. Granted, these are usually the hyper-tech games where the leading AI civs seem to turn up with new techs eery 5-6 turns, but you can miss out on it if you don't go all-out for it.

joncnunn · February 19, 2003, 13:03

Assuming that you aren't isolated:

Definately don't turn research off, but keep at least 1 scientist.

In the Ancient Era, pick whatever you want. Your best tech strategy here is the 1 scientist approach.

But in the Middle Ages; avoid prereqs to Education and Education itself like the plague. If on a low level (Monarch or below) or else you've already built the FP, you should probably be activing reseraching the Enginerring -> Invention -> Gunpowder -> Chemistry -> Metalurgy -> Military Tradition beeline until the GL expires. Otherwise use the 1 beaker tactic.

Don't buy any techs, but sell techs at reasonable prices on the rare occansions that you have the oppertunity to do so.

This will max out the benfit of the GL in most situations.

Note that if you are instead Isolated, you shouldn't have reserach off and should still reserach at a good pace during the Ancient Era, but when the Middle Ages arrive, avoid Education and it's prereqs.

And if the first civ to contact you has more than 1 contact, you should buy all contacts immedately.

Quote:

Originally posted by minke19104
After getting the Great Library, what is the best way to go?

Should I sit and relax, turning research completely off to accumulate massive amount of money, or continue going for techs that the AI do not research?

Say If England has monarchy, but noone lese has polytheism. Should I "donate" Polytheism to other civs to sort of bump them up to let them buy Monarchy from England. Thus, granting me free Monarchy faster.

I'm just curious on how ppl use their GL. Do you keep the GL as a backup for free techs while keeping research high to get the good ones faster, or you solely depend on GL for techs while building, REXing, or massively building Army to crush oppositions.

Also is it a good Idea to end GL use early if your close to Education, so you can build them Universities and hopefully JS Bach and switch to Democracy earlier than anyone else?

Any inputs are welcome...

TimHobbit · February 19, 2003, 18:02

I have a slightly off topic, but still related question. Often, after getting GL, I will get the tech currently researched. Then your research jumps to another tech. Is there a way to choose what tech your research switches to?

DaveMcW · February 19, 2003, 19:12

You lose all your accumulated research whenever you switch. Change it to whatever you like on the same turn, you're not losing anything more.

Konquest02 · February 19, 2003, 20:08

@Tim: hit F6 and choose the tech you want to research next. As Dave said, do this on the same turn not to lose any more beakers.

--Kon--

Master Zen · February 20, 2003, 01:59

This is a strategy I sometimes use:

Once I get the GL, my main objective is Military Tradition. Usually the AI takes the "high road" in the early middle ages, going towards Theology and Education and at the most reach Invention on the "low road". When they (and I) get Invention, I go for Metallurgy and Military Tradition which gives me a major military advantage which I use to kick my neighbour's butt at this time.

Of course, depending on the game situation is whether I use this strategy or not.

metalhead · February 20, 2003, 10:53

Quote:

Originally posted by joncnunn
Assuming that you aren't isolated:

Definately don't turn research off, but keep at least 1 scientist.

In the Ancient Era, pick whatever you want. Your best tech strategy here is the 1 scientist approach.

But in the Middle Ages; avoid prereqs to Education and Education itself like the plague. If on a low level (Monarch or below) or else you've already built the FP, you should probably be activing reseraching the Enginerring -> Invention -> Gunpowder -> Chemistry -> Metalurgy -> Military Tradition beeline until the GL expires. Otherwise use the 1 beaker tactic.

Don't buy any techs, but sell techs at reasonable prices on the rare occansions that you have the oppertunity to do so.

This will max out the benfit of the GL in most situations.

Note that if you are instead Isolated, you shouldn't have reserach off and should still reserach at a good pace during the Ancient Era, but when the Middle Ages arrive, avoid Education and it's prereqs.

And if the first civ to contact you has more than 1 contact, you should buy all contacts immedately.

I'm not sure I understand the point of researching techs while the GL is active. It seems like a colossal waste of gold. Unless you are playing Chieftan or Warlord, assigning any 40 turn research will end up a waste, because you will get the tech for free before you finish research, and whatever resources you put into the research will be wasted. It isn't a bad idea to start researching Gunpowder if you get Invention from the GL, as that will probably not end up being wasted research, but the first tech worth putting any research into is Printing Press, as this is guaranteed not to be wasted.

If you are isolated, it does make sense to research as fast as possible, because you will be getting no techs until you meet the other civs. I would recommend researching along the bottom all the way to Military Tradition before contacting other civs. When you do meet the other civs, DON'T trade for contacts. This will likely cost you a lot of gold, or a tech you would rather not trade (Metallurgy/MT). Rather, the AI will sell contact with you to all of the other civs, and you will get the contact for free.

One warning - on the next turn after you have met another civ, check your foreign advisor to make they haven't sold contact with you to only 1 or 2 other civs. If they have, then go ahead and trade for the rest, but it will almost always happen so that all other AI civs will buy contact with you, and proceed to contact you, on the same turn.

joncnunn · February 20, 2003, 12:27

When using the 40 turn one beaker trick, the most gold you can possible lose out on is 39.

This is generally a lot less than activity reseraching the same tech and getting it for free five turns into reseraching it.

Bluefrog · February 20, 2003, 13:45

Quote:

Originally posted by joncnunn
When using the 40 turn one beaker trick, the most gold you can possible lose out on is 39.

This is generally a lot less than activity reseraching the same tech and getting it for free five turns into reseraching it.

Actually, you could stand to lose out on a lot more gold than that, depending on what tile the scientist could be working.

But, I guess you could always find some backwater city with poor space to grab a scientist from.

metalhead · February 21, 2003, 11:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Bluefrog

Actually, you could stand to lose out on a lot more gold than that, depending on what tile the scientist could be working.

But, I guess you could always find some backwater city with poor space to grab a scientist from.

That's a good point. If you take a citizen off of a tile with no commerce, you aren't losing any gold. But, you are slowing (or stopping altogether) the growth of one of your cities, and are then missing out on any gold the extra citizens would give you. Not to mention, all tiles have the potential to provide at least one gold. You are also reducing the number of shields in any city you create a scientist in, both by the citizen you are removing from work, and the future citizens that you aren't getting because your city isn't growing. It just doesn't make sense to take away a working citizen to research a tech when that research is almost guaranteed to be wasted.

Now, if you think you have a shot at getting a tech first that you know you can sell for tons of cash, such as Monarchy, then research it full-bore. But 40 turn research is an absolute waste of resources while the GL is active.