Question for Economists - Page 2

Japher · February 13, 2003, 19:18

I think economics is the most singularly worthless degree one can get... not really, but it one of the most worthless degrees out there.

Why?

It yields nothing without application. Anyone can learn and understand economics without the "proper" education. Same holds true for most things, but here it is more true. Besides, the signs of true economist is develped through time, and not within 4 years a leading academic institute. In fact most economist that go on into the "real" world, apart for acadamia, make their success in building their own businesses. While their knowledge of the economy helps, they admit that the education they received did not help, and that they possed the education they needed to receive their success prior to getting the degree. They also attest that what really was their key was the ability to market commodities and manage people. In other words get along people and sway them to their line of thought.

What does this mean? This means the economics you learn in school ain't sqwat! It doesn't lead to money. Those attributes, that knowledge, comes from an education you will not learn in school.

If you want to succeed in a field that is somewhat like economics then go into buisness finance, or something that will actually be able to land you a job after school so that you can start really learning from those who know.

Never let schooling interfere with you education.

Sten Sture · February 13, 2003, 19:41

That was BA not BS; note the high level math!!

I laugh, but Japher, (though he is on the wrong side of the bay), speaks some truth. A successful career often does not require direct application of your undergrad studies.

Though to me that has nothing to do with whether it (undergrad field of study) was worthwhile or not...

DuncanK · February 13, 2003, 19:43

I think the more people in your society that understand economic concepts the better off your society will be, especially in a democracy. Sadly, usually only people with degrees in economics have a good understanding of economic concepts.

I think I already mentioned that the average salary for people with economics degrees is quite high.

Sten Sture · February 13, 2003, 19:52

Quote:

Originally posted by DuncanK
...only people with degrees in economics have a good understanding of economic concepts.

And no finance to knock it outta whack!

DuncanK · February 13, 2003, 20:00

Our understanding of economics, and our political bias, seems to come mostly from our experiences. If you study finance and work in finance you are likely to see the world as a perfect market and where wealthy people are responsible for everything beneficial.

Adam Smith · February 13, 2003, 20:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger
Just understanding the concepts shouldn't be enough to get you a degree.

Many econ BA's settle for understanding the concepts so they can go to B-school or, even worse, law school

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogger But most universities expect you to actually be able to creatively problem-solve quantitatively.

This is the standard which applies if you really want to grok it and solve problems as a professional economist (ie grad school in econ). I agree with your list of math courses. Calc I (differentiation) makes microeconomics very easy. Calc III (linear algebra) makes macroeconomics very easy. Given the amount of empirical work, anybody who is really serious also ought to have two or three good courses in statistics and regression. I would also add optimal control to the list since this underlies dynamics questions such as social security and dividend tax repeal. (Most econ majors wait until grad school for this.)

Japher:

An advanced econ degree is like having a union card. All it does is get your foot in the door. I always wanted to do applied economics ("creatively problem solve quantitatively" as Frogger put it). But problem solving is only half the fight. You also have to explain the process and results. In retrospect, the best possible training for this was being a TA teaching microeconomics to a bunch of bright but skeptical undergrads. (Posting on Poly also helps, though sometimes I wonder if people are persuaded by rational argument

). Overall I would say I learned far more econ after I earned a Ph. D.

Shi Huangdi · February 14, 2003, 01:45

"If you don't want the math, go take a management degree...

(snicker)"

I am not awful at Math. I took Calculus in HS and was able to get credits for Calc based on my placement test. Its just I really don't like doing it.

lord of the mark · February 14, 2003, 14:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
But a BA in economics would be a ticket to a McDonald's job on its own?

well in todays economy who can tell??

But in general no, a BA in econ is probabaly more useful than a liberal arts degree- possibilities of research asst type jobs in govt, at consulting firms etc. Especially good if you want to get some work experience before grad school. But you porobably wont need the calculus at this level, nor will you in law or B-school.

Drogue · February 14, 2003, 16:25

In the US are all courses standardised, such as Calc I, II and III? Has someone got a link to show what is covered in them? Also, do that many people go to grad school? Here it seems that most people get a Batchelors and then go into work. For anything other than going into further research, is a Masters or Doctorate really required?

I know some Uni's have BScs and BAs and different courses for each, but since many Uni's only offer one, regardless of however much math you take, I always thought the difference was in name only? I'm taking (or rather, will be next year) a largely math, econ degree, although it leads to a BA (since they don't offer BSc's for econ where I'm going). Basically what I'm trying to ask is does whether it's a BA or BSc matter, or is it what you've studied that matters?

DuncanK · February 14, 2003, 16:53

There is standardization. I can't give you a link or much details on it though. A postgraduate degree is MUCH better than a 4 year degree. And it depends on the career if you should get a BS or BA. As far as econ goes I don't think it matters. A BS wont get you work in econ unless you have a postgraduate too.

Japher · February 14, 2003, 17:05

To find the curriculum for the Calc courses look it up in any college catalog, most have them on line.

As for MS and PhD really being required... It depends.

I know that in my Co. in order to progress above lower management they require at least a Masters. Yet to even get into the research area you need a Masters, but your odds are greatly improved if you have doctorate. Also, "required" can ussually be replaced with "years of experience". So, if you want to progress quickly you get an advanced degree, if not you can stick with a BS/BA and try to work your way through, both work...

As for me, a BS has and will continue to treat me fine for my field... I am looking into going back to school, but I will make my company pay for it, so that will be nice.

Urban Ranger · February 15, 2003, 05:45

Quote:

Originally posted by DuncanK
You have to use a lot of advanced statistics. It's extremely boring. Worse, if you want to make it a career you will be using it for the rest of your life

I like stats, it is fun (okay, so I am strange

). Besides, once you know stats, people can't snow you anymore, which is the most important part.