What do you consider to be the most progressiven nation? - Page 4

Ozz · February 15, 2003, 21:19

Belgium, Got more BALLS then anyone else today.

Bereta_Eder · February 15, 2003, 22:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Hueij

Must have been "A Bad Day In Amsterdam"

Drug pushers are merely an annoyance and bar brawls happen all over the world. Compared to other big cities Amsterdam has the feel of a small town. If it weren't for Amsterdammers (that a word?) and Ajax it would be a great town

Yeah I guess you're right. After all it was just a two day excursion.

I was like 14 yeals old when I visited there too, so I don't know it kind of seemed a bit "threatening" to my eyes. Especially the streets of Amsterdam as compared to the streets of Brussels where I grew up. (edit: oh, the city not the streets

)

The bar brawl I saw it from our hotel room. There was a bar below on the street with glass ceiling.
And I went to look out the window and saw people being thrown over tables, things breaking, people bleeding...

I was like "Holy sh!t"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But, to their credit the police arrived in a very short while. In Greece they usually take their sweeeet time

MrFun · February 15, 2003, 22:38

Quote:

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
Just to point out - multicultural/ neutral/ no wars for centuries/ rich / educated etc... surely a good example where the world should be going.

But the country is rich in what aspect -- by its elite?

St Leo · February 15, 2003, 22:40

Netherlands. It's the country that I think of when I hear the words "progressive".

Canada should aspire to be more like the Low Countries.

MrFun · February 15, 2003, 22:51

Quote:

Originally posted by St Leo
Netherlands. It's the country that I think of when I hear the words "progressive".

Canada should aspire to be more like the Low Countries.

Well then, the question is, how low does Canada want to go then?

St Leo · February 16, 2003, 00:42

Under the Sea...

Hueij · February 16, 2003, 03:06

Quote:

... when a racist list in favor of killing junkees became second. It was typically dutch, because you'd see nowhere else in the world a gay far-right charismatic leader (Pim Fortuyn).

Huh? Killing junkies? Where did you get that idea? The guy may have been an egghead, but he was no way as dangerous as your own Le Pen...

(Damn, you made me defend Fortuyn

)

notyoueither · February 16, 2003, 06:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Hueij
(Damn, you made me defend Fortuyn

)

Ain't Poly OT great?

notyoueither · February 16, 2003, 06:14

Quote:

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
no wars for centuries

Never finding anything worth fighting for is not a character reference, especially given events of 60 some-odd years ago.

Jon Shafer · February 16, 2003, 06:37

Quote:

Originally posted by St Leo
Netherlands. It's the country that I think of when I hear the words "progressive".

Bingo.

Spiffor · February 16, 2003, 09:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Hueij

Quote:

... when a racist list in favor of killing junkees became second. It was typically dutch, because you'd see nowhere else in the world a gay far-right charismatic leader (Pim Fortuyn).

Huh? Killing junkies? Where did you get that idea?

A speech, where he explained people addicted to hard drugs are basically killing themselves, so instead of locking them up, it'd be better to help them in what they're doing (i.e dying)

Monk · February 16, 2003, 13:20

Hi Fun,

I'm curious regarding your choice of poll options. I'd have Belgium, Denmark - being Danish I'd have to say that, but I do think a nomination is in order from a rational point of view - , Switzerland and perhaps South Africa in here without a doubt. From what I know, the clear winner should be The Netherlands.

Sweden is a nice, comfortable welfare state, however there are some issues with the state dominating the alcohol market and the now-adopted tough stance on prostitution that concerns me somewhat. I don't really fancy voting for Finland either, as I understand they maintain regressive abortion legislation.

David Floyd, old chap, couldn't you have voted for Somalia? No central government to take away your stuff, no bans on machineguns whatsoever, poor commitment to the UN and no environmental restrictions to speak of! I realize it wouldn't be the most comfortable choice, but in the way I understand your definition of justice, it would score substantially better than the United States.

Urban Ranger · February 16, 2003, 13:25

I thought Chad also has no government?

*duck and run*

DanS · February 16, 2003, 13:47

From what Mr Fun describes, Canada is probably the place for him. It has a lot of the good qualities of the US, like limited xenophobia, but also seems to have eliminated the worst of the US, like rampant murder, etc.

orange · February 16, 2003, 13:51

Quote:

Originally posted by MrFun
Orange, did you miss my last post?

Or just reply when you have the time.

sorry, wasn't keeping up with this one...

Yes, of course...but I don't speak the language, and I'm not really at that stage of my life yet. I'm ok where I am for now. Besides, I'd like to be President some day

Monk · February 16, 2003, 14:43

Chad? I don't have a clue...

Somalia was chosen for the argument because that was what DCA did on another occasion.

Sava · February 16, 2003, 15:09

The Dutch have a little advantage though. Their country isn't as large as the US. I think the sheer geographical size and diversity of the US make it more difficult for the US to have uniform programs that help everybody. Even Americans may speak the same language (generally) some regions could are almost different countries. I don't think the Dutch have as much cultural diversity to deal with.

Ozz · February 16, 2003, 15:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel
There is a big problem with european countries, generally.

Your birthrates, people. Your natural population is plummeting, and I am not sure that many of the people migrating to replace you will hold the same attitudes due to the difference in culture. So you'll have either boost growth, or loose the 'cultural diverisity', and start educating all people to behave like europeans.

I have never understood why it is necessary to have
a constantly growing population. Less people to me
would mean less wilderness destruction, more opportunity to do interesting and well paid work, and
a better lifestyle, One of the main reasons i live in Canada is the low population. I don't want to live
on Trantor.

The only "good" i see out of large populations is more
cannon fodder, but that need ended with the A-bomb.

MrFun · February 18, 2003, 00:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Monk
Hi Fun,

I'm curious regarding your choice of poll options. I'd have Belgium, Denmark - being Danish I'd have to say that, but I do think a nomination is in order from a rational point of view - , Switzerland and perhaps South Africa in here without a doubt. From what I know, the clear winner should be The Netherlands.

Sweden is a nice, comfortable welfare state, however there are some issues with the state dominating the alcohol market and the now-adopted tough stance on prostitution that concerns me somewhat. I don't really fancy voting for Finland either, as I understand they maintain regressive abortion legislation.

David Floyd, old chap, couldn't you have voted for Somalia? No central government to take away your stuff, no bans on machineguns whatsoever, poor commitment to the UN and no environmental restrictions to speak of! I realize it wouldn't be the most comfortable choice, but in the way I understand your definition of justice, it would score substantially better than the United States.

You wanted me to maximize the possible poll options allowed on here, to increase confusion for voters?

Besides, vote for "Other" and explain which country you voted for, and why.

And orange, let me know how your fantastical election goes.

AnnC · February 18, 2003, 00:40

I think that it's fair to say that the Scandinavian countries are the most progressive. But I'll admit that I wouldn't want to live in a society like that, where social pressure is very strong and it seems that everybody feels they have a right to tell their neighbors what to do.

Kontiki · February 18, 2003, 00:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel
There is a big problem with european countries, generally.

Your birthrates, people. Your natural population is plummeting, and I am not sure that many of the people migrating to replace you will hold the same attitudes due to the difference in culture. So you'll have either boost growth, or loose the 'cultural diverisity', and start educating all people to behave like europeans.

Europe is hardly alone in this regard. First off, few European countries actually have negative natural growth rates, but in general, they are quite close to zero. Second, the same holds true for just about every other first world country. Outside of Europe, Canada, the US, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and even China all have natural growth rates of less than 1%.

Reality is, most first world countries that have population growth do so almost exclusively via immigration. So, if you see this as a problem, then I guess just about all developed countries aren't "progressive".

aaglo · February 18, 2003, 02:09

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnC
I think that it's fair to say that the Scandinavian countries are the most progressive. But I'll admit that I wouldn't want to live in a society like that, where social pressure is very strong and it seems that everybody feels they have a right to tell their neighbors what to do.

Social pressure is very strong? Everybody has a right to tell their neighbors what to do?

I'm not sure what are you referring to

Considering all the four issues mentioned by MRfun (social affairs, wealth distribution, equality between different people and justice being done), I have hard time to see why USA is making so high in this poll. Are these just my stereotypical beliefs about american lifestyle?
- There is no real social welfare system in America
- Wealth is far from equally distributed, you have people richer and poorer than I can ever even imagine
- People aren't equal in USA: African-Americans, Indians, Latinos and Muslims
- Where is the justice in Guantanamo bay? Where is justice, when people can file law suits on McDonalds about their food being too fattening?

I know, I'm a simple Eurocom who has stereotypical beliefs. I hope those beliefs are false, because otherwise I will have to start worrying myself.

No offense, murricans

Imran Siddiqui · February 18, 2003, 02:10

I voted for Canada, you know North American pride

.

And good hockey, that deserves a vote.... hmm, come to think about it, the big hockey places seem to be the most progressive... is there a tie in?

notyoueither · February 18, 2003, 02:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I voted for Canada, you know North American pride

.

And good hockey, that deserves a vote.... hmm, come to think about it, the big hockey places seem to be the most progressive... is there a tie in?

Yayyy! Alberta is progressive. Don't forget to tell kitty.