ELECTION: Term 3 Minister of Domestic Affairs - Page 2

Oerdin · February 15, 2003, 14:24

With a name like Baggins he must be good. Of course if another person was running then I might change my mind.

MrBaggins · February 15, 2003, 14:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Tamerlin

Most of the real word democracies adhere to the following principle as far as law is concerned: "what is not expressively forbidden is allowed".

Not in *this* democracy. That needs to be specified... and it just isn't in ours.

Zaphod Beeblebrox · February 15, 2003, 14:28

there is another person running

MrBaggins · February 15, 2003, 14:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
ELECTION: Term 3 Minister of Domestic Affairs

Dear Apolemurians,

this election is to vote for a Minister of Domestic Affairs, who will serve a one month term.

The only person running for this office is MrBaggins.

Therefore the poll will be only a Yes/No/Abstain-poll, with the meaning:

Yes = You want MrBaggins to become a elected Minister of Domestic Affairs
No = You reject MrBaggins as a Minister of Domestic Affairs
Abstain = You don't care.

This poll will expire in 5 days on the 20th February 2003, 14:00 GMT.

In the name of our constitution and the name of our people, Senior Justice Gilgamensch

No, there isn't.

H Tower · February 15, 2003, 14:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
there is another person running

you need to file a case zaphod if you're going to make claims like this

Tamerlin · February 15, 2003, 14:39

I have just read again the nominations thread and I must admit the time limit was indeed 12:00 GMT which I misread as midnight as in anglo-saxon countries time is almost always expressed as 12:00 am or 12:00 pm which was not the case.

Furthermore I must note the first post on the thread has been edited today and the following line seems to have been added:
The nomination period would normally end on February 15th (Saturday), 12:00 GMT.

I might be wrong but as far as I can remember the original post did not mentionned a time limit.

I will read again the constitution tonight and look carefully to the conditions that must be respected in order to be nominated.

H Tower · February 15, 2003, 14:52

"
I might be wrong but as far as I can remember the original post did not mentionned a time limit.
"
I think you're wrong, i remember the time limit mentioned from the begining. The editing you are referring too is Gilg updating who has been nominated

GhengisFarb™ · February 15, 2003, 14:55

So we are we voting Yes the election shall be the candidate or No the election shall not hold office?

H Tower · February 15, 2003, 14:58

seeing as how you aren't a member, you aren't voting at all

Tamerlin · February 15, 2003, 15:19

Quote:

Originally posted by H Tower
"
I might be wrong but as far as I can remember the original post did not mentionned a time limit.
"
I think you're wrong, i remember the time limit mentioned from the begining. The editing you are referring too is Gilg updating who has been nominated

Ooops!

Tamerlin · February 15, 2003, 16:21

It would have not been fair play to recognize the time limit was 12:00 GMT.

Whatsoever the posts are dated as GMT+2 hours.

Zaphod Beeblebrox has posted the nomination list of the APP on the 3rd Term Nominations thread at 13:57 which means it was actually posted at 11:57 GMT. The nomination list has thus been posted in time according to the time limit fixed by Gilgamensh.

The problem is now not to know if the post has been sent within the time limit but to know if a candidate can be nominated by a third party (with the consent of the nominate, which I have given myself to our Prime Secretary Zaphod Beeblebrox) or if the constitution requires him to do so personnally. I will check the constitution tonight and express myself on the need to open a case or not.

Tamerlin
Delegate of the APP

H Tower · February 15, 2003, 16:31

you could also argue that the 12:00 GMT is wrong as well. Gilg made the first post several hours before 12:00GMT ont he 12th. If you argue that way, then Zaphod should be removed from his election as well.

Tamerlin · February 15, 2003, 16:40

Quote:

Originally posted by H Tower
you could also argue that the 12:00 GMT is wrong as well. Gilg made the first post several hours before 12:00GMT ont he 12th. If you argue that way, then Zaphod should be removed from his election as well.

Gilgamensh post states the time limit is 12:00 GMT and there is nothing to argue beyond this. Read again and you will see I am right. The time I am referring to is expressed at the bottom of each Apolyton Website page.

Tamerlin · February 15, 2003, 18:31

This is the text of our Constitution regarding nominations:

(e) At the start of the election process, the Court must start a nomination thread. All citizens who wish to be candidates for an office must publicly express their nomination in this thread. For this they have three days.

Beyond the fact the Nomination must be announced publicly through the "Nominations" thread our Constitution does not require the Nominate to do so personnally.

Everybody knows Zaphod and I are members of the APP and that the important decisions of our Party are taken after the members have reached a common consent on the subject. Everybody also knows that Zaphod Beeblebrox is the Prime Secretary of the APP and that he is entitled to speak in our name as I am myself to a lesser degree as a Second Secretary.

I hereby think there is enough matter to open a case in the Court thread as the APP Nominations has been posted in time (13:57 is 11:57 GMT).

I will inform the citizens as soon as possible of the decision of the APP to open or not a case.

Be sure MrBaggins our intent is not to injure your reputation in any way and that I remain a faithfull servant of our Nation.

MrBaggins · February 15, 2003, 18:37

The constitution does not recognise the APP, any political party or other grouping.

HuangShang · February 15, 2003, 18:48

wow, 44 posts in one night, and i have barely a clue on whats up

H Tower · February 15, 2003, 19:18

can we please campaign in this thread? file a case already instead of complaining. I can't stand posturing, either do something about this or quiet down so people can campaign already

Tamerlin · February 15, 2003, 19:23

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBaggins
The constitution does not recognise the APP, any political party or other grouping.

The point is not about the constitution recognizing a party or not but about the constitution allowing or not a nominate to be publicly announced by a third party with the consent (expressed publicly or not) of the said nominate.

Article V - (e) does not require the nominate to publicly express its nomination himself nor does it prevent the nomination to be made publicly known by a third party.

This is what we call a "vide juridique" (I would translate it roughly as "legal vacuum") in France. The Article V - (e) is open to interpretation and the task of the Judge is literally to "say the law".

Tamerlin · February 15, 2003, 19:29

Quote:

Originally posted by H Tower
can we please campaign in this thread? file a case already instead of complaining. I can't stand posturing, either do something about this or quiet down so people can campaign already

Zaphod, the other members we will manage to reach and I will take a decision about filing a case or not tomorrow.

H Tower · February 15, 2003, 19:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Article V - (e) does not require the nominate to publicly express its nomination himself nor does it prevent the nomination to be made publicly known by a third party.

here is the said section:

(e) At the start of the election process, the Court must start a nomination thread. All citizens who wish to be candidates for an office must publicly express their nomination in this thread. For this they have three days.

All citizens who wish to run must express their candidacy. I didn't see you announce your candidacy. mapfi nominated me, gilg put an asterik near my name, because i had to accept the nomination, the same goes for you as well, except you ran out time because you delayed to the very end.

Tamerlin · February 15, 2003, 20:37

Quote:

Originally posted by H Tower
...except you ran out time because you delayed to the very end.

The Constitution does not require the nominate to publicly express he accepts the nomination. The Constitution only requires the nomination to be publicly expressed which has been done in time.

Should I be allowed to be a candidate I would promote the building of defensive and offensive units in all our cities in order to support the ongoing war against Austria and garrison our territory.

As soon as the war is over I would like to put the emphasis again on science and build some other settlers as we need to increase our science rate and settle the remaining land before our opponents. We will also need to build a wonder (like the Ramajana) that would give us the edge over the other nations and would help to manage our young empire. However production should not be totally ignored in favor of science as the benefit we would earn from increasing our production rate would greatly affect our ability to produce the buildings and units that are needed to further our development.

The opinion of the citizens on these subjects would of course be asked through regular polls as they are the ultimate judges.

Pedrunn · February 15, 2003, 21:26

As youmay know by now. I chose you during a turn chat and i did not do so just because you were there but because you have been a very active poster in the MoDA related issues. You were my choice for a MoDA even before your nomination.

I hope to be with you in the government. Your enthusiasm is contagious!

Tamerlin · February 15, 2003, 22:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Pedrunn
As youmay know by now. I chose you during a turn chat and i did not do so just because you were there but because you have been a very active poster in the MoDA related issues. You were my choice for a MoDA even before your nomination.

I hope to be with you in the government. Your enthusiasm is contagious!

Thanks Pedrunn, your support is welcomed as I was becoming a bit discouraged (not because of Gilgamensh's decision as he is only applying the law as he thinks it should be, we have had some trouble to join our members and especially IW and I didn't knew there would be any problem with a third party announcement as it is the first election I am involved in).

Tamerlin · February 15, 2003, 22:11

As you name no one I hope those encouragements are for me... hmm, actually I think they are for MrBaggins.

Pedrunn · February 16, 2003, 00:08

I thought mrbaggins was running uncontested.

The sames goes for you after all I also nominate you for MoDTS delegate and all the words does fit on you.

But i meant mrbaggins (I nominated him for MoDA delegate).

*Pedrunn fells off his chair due so much laughing

miggio · February 16, 2003, 00:16

I think you should just file a case and get this settled because waiting on the Case may cripple the progression of our empire

H Tower · February 16, 2003, 02:05

Quote:

Originally posted by miggio
I think you should just file a case and get this settled because waiting on the Case may cripple the progression of our empire

Thank you! That's what I've been trying to tell them all day

Tamerlin · February 16, 2003, 15:08

After some reflection I have decided not to file a case and plead my cause in front of the Lemurian Court.

Though I believe this case could easily be defended in front of our judges, the legal process is too long and the issue would certainly not be settled before the end of these elections which would require our citizens to vote again, something the active citizens don't want.

Considering the lack of concern and commitment from the vast majority of the less active citizens I now consider opening a file would be useless and would only result in petty quarrels that would work against the interest of our nation that which I don't want.

In the near future I will ask for an amendment of our Constitution in order to revise the Article V - (e) which should clearly state a Nomination have to be personally expressed by the nominate.

Long life to our Democracy,
Long life to Lemuria.

MrBaggins · February 16, 2003, 23:00

Thank you for your kind comments, Pedrunn.

As a candidate for MoDA, I feel I am well qualified, by my understanding of game mechanics: I know well, the processes which contribute to a cities productiveness (or non-productiveness) and the tweaks that can be made to get the most out of them... and the issues of loss and gain that other effects, such as happiness or disbanding, cause.

As another example, with regards to city placement, I have designed a spreadsheet to project the growth rate and productive quality of a prospective site.

I feel that I would serve the nation in an able manner, and would be able to react to the unexpected and adjust plans, whilst still keeping the grand vision in mind.

I stand as a progressive candidate, seeking to quickly garrison our cities and get to the serious business of productive improvement. Our frontline cities will produce the offensive and defensive troops necessary to defend and expand our empire.

At the moment our entire empire is a frontline. I wish our Austrian campaign well... and hope to be in a position, eventually to settle cities north of the northern river path, to form buffer cities, so that we can have peace of mind, and an ability to develop without regard to war in the heart of our empire.

Furthermore, as MoDA, I shall attempt to predict forseeable choices and get an idea of the will of the people on these matters.

MrBaggins

Frozzy · February 17, 2003, 02:32

Quote:

Originally posted by H Tower

here is the said section:

(e) At the start of the election process, the Court must start a nomination thread. All citizens who wish to be candidates for an office must publicly express their nomination in this thread. For this they have three days.

All citizens who wish to run must express their candidacy. I didn't see you announce your candidacy. mapfi nominated me, gilg put an asterik near my name, because i had to accept the nomination, the same goes for you as well, except you ran out time because you delayed to the very end.

That says sod all about the candidate in question having to accept it. Zaphod announced the candidacy ON THE BEHALF of Tamerlin. Tamerlin expressed his wish to be a candidate, albeit in the guise of Beeblebrox. Thus all the above clauses have been met.