Diplomatic deals worsen relation ?

Mirimax · February 16, 2003, 04:41

Okay, here's the story. I just contacted the second civilisation in a new game, first diplomatic encounter. The mood of my opposite is "cautious". We strike a deal (contact for world map+a little money) and *booom* at once the relation deteriorates (annoyed). Don't diplomatic deals normally improve the stance between civs ? What may be the cause for the change in attitude ?
So I gave civ "B" contact with civ "A"
Does the AI act as if it immediately makes contact with the civ A (with which I have a very bad stance) ? Is that how it works. Or is it just a bug.
This is a bit annoying 'cause I'd like good relations with neighbours and striking mutually beneficial deals seemed to be favourable.
Can anybody shed light on this ?
Thanks a lot !

Willem · February 16, 2003, 23:45

World maps don't really do much as far as another civ's attitude towards you, you'll need to do more than that. It's quite possible in your case that the new civ was able to contact your enemy and was convinced to favour them instead. Maybe they offered a better deal?

bongo · February 17, 2003, 08:30

If the other civ hates you cause you broke some deal with them, they will tell everyone. Giving them contact with other civs is stupid cause word on your ill behaviour will spread around.

badams52 · February 17, 2003, 12:01

bongo knows his stuff. Check out this thread for info on the exploit: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=76734

bongo · February 18, 2003, 11:17

Giving away contact with other civs is somthing I delay as long as possible. Being the only one that has contact with one(or many) civ can be both useful and profitable(tip: tech trading...)

I don't consider it an exploit, only another spot where the AI can't compete with humans

badams52 , thanks for the link

As I rarely read the strategy forum I missed that thread.

Mirimax · February 19, 2003, 14:59

Giving away contacts, well, it depends. There are cases where you *want* the others to trade advances (Great Library). Also, it sometimes is the only way to get desperately needed stuff. You get really to make big deals, if you wait, others will make them.
Anyway, the whole attitude thing is pretty strange. Take that:
2) I'm offering the French a Mutual Protection treaty. They get:
World Map, 12 gold per turn + 500 gold. That turns their attitude from "annoyed" to "polite".
3) I'm offering the Germans a Mutual Protection treaty. They get:
World Map, 560 gold, Gems. That turns their attitude from "annoyed to annoyed".
Plus, I never fought a war with Germany or anything (but with the French). Also, the French military is stronger.

Turn that as you will, it doesn't make any sense at all. By all experience, the deal with the Germans should have improved their attitude!

Either, the system is totally buggy or some truly socially distorted guys came up with it ;-)

I tend to think there's a bug there. Note, I'm playing the original Civ 3, not PTW.
Any idea what's up here ?

Master Zen · February 20, 2003, 01:17

Civ aggresiveness comes into play.

Germans are one of the most aggressive civs, like Russia. They are really hard to please.

French on the other hand are one of the greatest civs to be neighbours with. I have never had problems with the French even if they are more powerful than me.

Bamspeedy · February 22, 2003, 05:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Mirimax
Giving away contacts, well, it depends. There are cases where you *want* the others to trade advances (Great Library). Also, it sometimes is the only way to get desperately needed stuff. You get really to make big deals, if you wait, others will make them.
Anyway, the whole attitude thing is pretty strange. Take that:
2) I'm offering the French a Mutual Protection treaty. They get:
World Map, 12 gold per turn + 500 gold. That turns their attitude from "annoyed" to "polite".
3) I'm offering the Germans a Mutual Protection treaty. They get:
World Map, 560 gold, Gems. That turns their attitude from "annoyed to annoyed".
Plus, I never fought a war with Germany or anything (but with the French). Also, the French military is stronger.

Turn that as you will, it doesn't make any sense at all. By all experience, the deal with the Germans should have improved their attitude!

Either, the system is totally buggy or some truly socially distorted guys came up with it ;-)

I tend to think there's a bug there. Note, I'm playing the original Civ 3, not PTW.
Any idea what's up here ?

Here's an article that will answer most, if not all of your questions.

AI attitude

After reading that article (to understand what I'm writing next), you may ask why the -10 from signing a MPP didn't improve relations, but that's probably because you have a power lead, so the bonus may only be -5, so you could have gone from +9 to +4 and they'd still be in the 'annoyed' category. The French could have been at +2 and gone to -3, which would put them in the 'polite' category.
My test was in PTW, but most, if not all of it should apply to vanilla Civ3.

Master Zen · February 23, 2003, 01:34

Excellent article Bamspeedy!

I found it rather odd that having enemy workers pisses them off even if you get them thru trade. After reading this, I'm defenitely adding them to my cities.

Bamspeedy · February 23, 2003, 02:33

Perhaps you mis-read something, or I'm misunderstanding you. Using slaves doesn't hurt, but selling your own workers does hurt. Disbanding slaves hurts you.

Master Zen · February 23, 2003, 02:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
Perhaps you mis-read something, or I'm misunderstanding you. Using slaves doesn't hurt, but selling your own workers does hurt. Disbanding slaves hurts you.

Part I understood:

I disband slaves eventually because they are slower than normal workers. From now on I'll have them join cities.

Part I mis-read:

Selling workers hurt. I never do it anyway...

pedrojedi · February 23, 2003, 07:49

Slaves are good. Slaves can be population. Slaves can become colonies, radar stations and outposts. Sometimes, I get a little roman on my attittude and start wars for slaves. I`m mean.

Abdul-Aziz · February 23, 2003, 10:17

petrojedi, yes I also do this sometimes. Once Egypt marched in my territory with 24 workers. Do you know what I have done next? :-)