Early Landing Comparison Game #1 - Page 2

rjmatsleepers · February 19, 2003, 03:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits

I have a city next to that lake at 16,22 and I can't build a boat either ... but why would you want to?

SG(2)

I wanted to build a trireme there to use a canal I had built west to the large inland sea and north to the open ocean.

Oh well you learn something new every day - I didn't know that you couldnt build ships to go on a single tile lake. Thanks for the tip.

RJM at Sleepers

rjmatsleepers · February 19, 2003, 03:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
A bit of a shot in the dark - but have you tried clicking View | Arrange Windows - sometimes I have experienced 'masking effects' that have been cured by this ploy?

SG[1]

Thanks for this suggestion. I'll go back to a save at that point and give it a try.

RJM at Sleepers

rjmatsleepers · February 19, 2003, 04:48

Isn't life just like that.

I started the game again (for fun). In 2300 BC the Mongol civilization was destroyed by Barbarians. Now if that had happened in the real game it would have been so much easier!

RJM at Sleepers

Scouse Gits · February 19, 2003, 05:44

Play it on RJM - with a dream start like that given the 'fun' we have both had you can fly the flag high

SG[1]

Further interim report ....

Used caravans earmarked for Cope's (dream on) to interdict Veii while I rushed a Palace, a Barracks and retro researched Monarchy - dropped to Monarchy - spewed out vet Chariots (and later vet Crooks & Legions) retook and rebuilt the empire now including Samarkand

and am now back in Republic (with a strongly fortified front line against the Mongols and Chinese) - the Aztecs got Cope's, but I have high hopes for Newton - I might land yet - or lose my rag again and show the AI what a Comrade can do with a size 21 city - we shall see.

Scouse Gits · February 19, 2003, 05:51

RJM - a further thought about your troubles - are you playing 2.42 or MGE - the symptoms you are describing are consistent with MGE and a script disallowing interaction with the AI of the sort we sometimes use for PBEM games - I believe that if this is the case there is a utility that can strip out the script - you might PM DaveV about this - I believe he is more familiar with these scripts than I.

Were you playing a scenario and then loaded the save without actually closing your Civ.exe - it might have been inherited...

SG[1]

DrSpike · February 19, 2003, 05:55

Reading the logs here perhaps we should go back nearly 6 years and rename the thread 'any landing comparison game #1'

Scouse Gits · February 19, 2003, 17:52

An eerie silence fell over Rome. The scribes were hard at work updating their logs. Suddenly the blood-curdling roar of a Mongol Elephant filled the city with terror…

-----------------------

SG(2)

La Fayette · February 19, 2003, 21:15

Well, I guess my game is poor by solo's standards, but it seems to be going more smoothly than what happened to the Gits

I have been compelled to strike hard at the Mongols but they are now as quiet as chickens. I own 27 techs and Rome is size 21

solo
Did YOU choose our neighbours? or is it plain luck?
Sitting between the Mongols and the Chinese, both well known as 'quiet and peaceful'

, makes life lively.
Of course, personally I enjoy it

SCG · February 19, 2003, 21:56

Quote:

Originally posted by La Fayette
Well, I guess my game is poor by solo's standards, but it seems to be going more smoothly than what happened to the Gits

I have been compelled to strike hard at the Mongols but they are now as quiet as chickens. I own 27 techs and Rome is size 21

Looks like its going smoothly compared to mine too - at 500 AD I have 20 techs, and have to key off a restart Greek civ. I guess you'd say I've had it relatively easy, given that Beijing (i call it Red China) is the #4 city in the world and controlled by barbarians. I don't even meet the chinese until the 19th century, and they have 15 techs at that point... I should land sometime in the early 20th century i think, probably later this week

Scouse Gits · February 19, 2003, 23:29

Quote:

Originally posted by SCG
I don't even meet the chinese until the 19th century

I met them in 900BC ... interesting how the same start can lead to many different games.

I hope I have tamed the Mongols by keeping them to just three cities.

---------------------------

SG(2)

SCG · February 20, 2003, 00:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
I hope I have tamed the Mongols by keeping them to just three cities.
SG(2)

might be in your game
i knocked them down to 3 (size 8) cities, but because the Chinese and Greeks were so down, The mongols were still Strong with all the techs i'd gifted them, and therefore still had a big head on their shoulders

I wasted way too much time trying to swat them away before finally getting serious

rjmatsleepers · February 20, 2003, 03:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
RJM - a further thought about your troubles - are you playing 2.42 or MGE - the symptoms you are describing are consistent with MGE and a script disallowing interaction with the AI of the sort we sometimes use for PBEM games - I believe that if this is the case there is a utility that can strip out the script - you might PM DaveV about this - I believe he is more familiar with these scripts than I.

Were you playing a scenario and then loaded the save without actually closing your Civ.exe - it might have been inherited...

SG[1]

I'm playing Fantastic Worlds "2.7.8l".

As far as I can remember I started the game into a clean boot. I don't think I was playing a scenario - I look at them from time to time, but don't play them very often.

Having said all that, I have had the problem before - at a time when I didn't understand the game very well. I read you guys talking about subverting cities and asking for tribute, but didn't know how to do it! It just seemed to clear itself up.

Another contributory factor may be the machine I'm playing on which is short of everything - processing power, memory, disk space.

And running Windows 95.

I'm in the process of upgrading, but there is still some useful hardware on it that I can't connect to my new machine so I keep the old thing running.

RJM at Sleepers

Scouse Gits · February 20, 2003, 03:16

Now you mention it - I've had exactly the same problem with FW - so much so that I stopped using it and now play exclusively 2.42 or MGE - some of the scenarios play a tad wierdly in MGE (America declaring war on England in WWII for example) but what the hell.

... and no - I couldn't fix it for myself so I have no further ideas

SG[1]

Scouse Gits · February 20, 2003, 03:19

As all might well expect from me - 1700 and the Mongols are no more - they started killing caravans - and that is way out of line.
Landing? What's a feckin' landing?

SG[1]

rjmatsleepers · February 20, 2003, 04:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Now you mention it - I've had exactly the same problem with FW - so much so that I stopped using it
SG[1]

And let me guess ...

There's no patch to get from FW to 2.42.

And nobody sells 2.42 since Civ3 is the "latest" version.

RJM at Sleepers

Scouse Gits · February 20, 2003, 04:53

Quote:

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
And nobody sells 2.42 since Civ3 is the "latest" version.
RJM at Sleepers

Civ 2 is still advertised by Amazon. Have a peep at the bottom of the main forum page.

-------------------

SG(2)

rjmatsleepers · February 20, 2003, 05:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits

Civ 2 is still advertised by Amazon. Have a peep at the bottom of the main forum page.

-------------------

SG(2)

"This item is not stocked or has been discontinued"

But the picture of the box looked familiar - must go and check my program CD.

RJM at Sleepers

Scouse Gits · February 20, 2003, 06:01

IIRC FW is an upgrade disc and not a full game - look in your Civ2 folder and see if there is a file called something like Civorig.exe which I believe is the original civ2 renamed by the upgrade.
It is however more than likely that this is something like civ2 v 1.3 (this seems the most common variant in the UK at least) which will then itself need patching to v2.42 - that patch is here in the ACS Directory

Keep taking the tablets...

SG[1]

rjmatsleepers · February 20, 2003, 06:02

Hallelujah

The original civ.exe before installing to FW upgrades to 2.42

I think I'm back on track!

RJM at Sleepers

Scouse Gits · February 20, 2003, 06:42

If you want to continue with FW your best bet now is to make a clone of your Civ 2.42 directory and upgrade the clone - keeping your nice clean 2.42 for games like this...

Glad things have sorted out

SG[1]

solo · February 20, 2003, 12:18

rjmatsleepers,

I hope things are sorted out okay for you, because 2.42 is the way to go when playing these comparison games. As a newcomer, and considering the handicaps you encountered in the first game, I think we can cut you a little slack, and allow a second attempt.

all combatants,

I am wondering a bit if some of you got the wrong idea. It is not a requirement to subdue the AI before building a spaceship!

Seriously, all that I knew about the start was that it had a good SSC site, which only took me a few turns of play to find out. Before the Mongols can be buttered up with tech gifts to keep them happy, it's touch and go, because it takes a while to get a good tech lead. While waiting, I gifted whatever tech they demanded when they made contact, which was two ro three times before I discovered Republic. As most vet OCC players know, appeasement works because it keeps buying additional turns of peace.

Once I got Republic and a few quick techs afterwards, I was able to trade it to the Mongols, share maps, and watched them switch to this government and remain peaceful after that.

Even though the Mongols did not declare war on me early, I think I escaped the possibility of a sneak attack by them by the slimmest of margins. I was really wishing that another AI had been nearby, since the Mongol aggressiveness would have resulted in a war that would have distracted them.

As with the Mongols, there's no point in refusing AI tech demands, since that is usually what I aim to do when they are contacted. However, it's a good policy to have less than 50 gold on hand when initiating contact, so that they won't ask for your money, instead.

La Fayette,

Size 21 by 500 AD is a nice job, and you have a good shot to reach Automobile by 1000 AD. I am finding that trade is working very well after freights are available, since the SSC has a wine wildcard and also is producing dye. Although they were a threat early, I'm very happy to have two Mongol cities with good trade and in good position to be getting me that rail bonus for trade routes now. With an excellent SSC site, this is enough to sustain 1 turn advances in spite of the lack of starting techs.

Elephant · February 20, 2003, 13:34

Interesting things get started when I dont visit the Forum for a week! Thanks, LaFayette, for pointing out on CFC that Solo had started this game!

I'm still struggling through the CFC Game Of The Month, which also started as "CA_B4000.SAV" (CAtherine of Russians, rather than CAesar of Romans!), so when I started the ELCG I overwrote several waypoint saves! I've been trying to use some of the EL strategies for the GOTM (early Shakes, helper cities, trading colonies, wonder bread...) with some success at boosting research speed; the game is Bloodlust so I may punt reaching for MobWar/Robotics...

The start is interesting, and I found the Mongols first and gifted them to Receptive. One question: did I gather that Restarts are On, so wiping them out will cause another Purple civ to spawn somewhere else? I kind of want to keep them around, both for the RD/RR trade bonus and for KeyCiv gifting, but I dont know if I can handle their restiveness. I've penned them into their peninsula, but...

Now you guys have me thinking blood-thirsty! Oh well, I got going, things seem OK, I'm going to have to lay it aside for a week to finish GOTM, then I'll see what I can do.

We may want to think about setting a standard for which other civs we start with, and whether Restarts is on. Seems the nearby Mongols is bringing out the worst in us!

solo · February 20, 2003, 13:55

Welcome Elephant,

Restarts are on. Any future standards will be up to the majority opinion of active players. Enjoy your game!

La Fayette · February 20, 2003, 13:59

solo
Automobile by 1000AD? This is for you

I am currently researching it ... and it is 1500AD

500AD = 27 techs and SSC size 21
1000AD = 36 techs and SSC size 24
1500AD = 52 techs and SSC size 24

I made several HUGE mistakes, such as being satisfied with shorter overseas deliveries much too long (and I don't master your new trading techniques at all

).

Still, the map is fun and that kind of game is a real change from my usual warmongering bad habits

SCG · February 20, 2003, 14:39

Quote:

Originally posted by La Fayette
I made several HUGE mistakes, such as being satisfied with shorter overseas deliveries much too long (and I don't master your new trading techniques at all

).

I made that mistake as well, partly because several of my helper cities were turned into fortresses for a while. Only once managed to trade maps before i had knocked the knees out from under the mongols, and even then, they hadn't made contact with anyone. Throw in a restart greek and the barbs keeping china at 1 city till the 1800's, I wasn't getting any help whatsoever from the AI, and not exploring much doomed me in this game (losing an undefended trading colony to barbs because i was trying to stay below 50 gold didn't help either

)

solo · February 20, 2003, 16:24

La Fayette,

I only had 4 more techs than you in 500 AD, so it must be missed trading opportunites that slowed you down, since I got to Automobile before 1000 AD. Resupply of the SSC commodities is vital as are quick deliveries via ship chains. Most of my AI trade was between Rome and the Aztecs. Three good colonies provided a lot of gold from their trades, too.

I have launched a ship, but it will not arrive before Dr. Spike's reported landing of 1240 AD!

SCG,

I had a barb attack against my SSC very early, but was surprised that my warrior held off an archer. Must be that capital defensive bonus. Later some went after a colony, but I had enough time to build a diplomat to meet them and bribe them into submission. No leaders for me this game, nor any AI alliances, but it did not matter as I made more gold than I needed from trades.

Speaking of bribes, I tried something new in this game by using a diplomat to bribe Iswandlhara away from the Zulus for 488 gold. A nice (and instant) size three colony that came with a harbor, trireme, warrior, catapult and two elephants, plus 72 gold back in tribute! The only downside was that I had to acquire Horseback Riding as plunder, too, earlier than I wanted the tech, but hey, this was not a bad deal, and I think inciting revolts will become my preferred method for getting one or more colonies established, rather than using home grown setttlers. I slap myself on the forehead for not thinking of doing this in earlier games, since the advantages of bribing are obvious. Next game I will hang around tempting AI outposts with diplomats, waiting for these cities to revolt, allowing a savings of 50%.

Elephant · February 20, 2003, 16:36

Standard early exploration/trading/bribing "Expeditionary Force":
1 trireme
1 caravan (preferably Dye)
1 Diplomat

DrSpike · February 20, 2003, 16:42

Quote:

Originally posted by solo

I have launched a ship, but it will not arrive before Dr. Spike's reported landing of 1240 AD!

In case anyone is unaware, I was being flippant.

La Fayette · February 20, 2003, 19:41

))

Quote:

Originally posted by solo
La Fayette,

Resupply of the SSC commodities is vital as are quick deliveries via ship chains. Most of my AI trade was between Rome and the Aztecs. Three good colonies provided a lot of gold from their trades, too.
.

Quick delivery: I master that, but I started trading with the Aztecs much later than I should have done.

Resupply of the SSC commodities (and other 'modern' trading methods) : I don't master that at all (and was ready to use rehoming to solve the problem, but when rehoming is forbidden I stay stuck with small cities able to trade and a strong SSC stacking food caravans

).

I haven't really made use of your colonies yet. Just forgot because I'm not accustomed

.

Dr Spike

I bet solo managed to land not very long after your record landing in 1240AD

Bloody Monk · February 20, 2003, 19:56

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike

In case anyone is unaware, I was being flippant.

How unusual. Thanks for clarifying!

I am only now starting this game, having been delayed by some MUST reading. (The new Robt Jordan book, vol 10 of the Wheel of Time series is quite satisfying.) I haven't played enough to know for sure, but this start seems way harder than anything Solo has offered up before, especially the no starting techs wrinkle. I hope folk are not put off by the level of difficulty. But having played it ourselves, we will, I predict, be in drop-jawed surprise at Solo's log...and then the learning curve will take over.

Monk (Hoping for the best)