Early Landing Comparison Game #1

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by solo
Speaking of bribes, I tried something new in this game by using a diplomat to bribe Iswandlhara away from the Zulus for 488 gold. A nice (and instant) size three colony that came with a harbor, trireme, warrior, catapult and two elephants, plus 72 gold back in tribute!

Yes, I have made a similar move. In my game the Barbs captured Tenochtitlan but the Aztecs seemed to ignore it and just moved their capital. It grew to size 7 which was too much of a temptation! Alas no city improvements ... but an "oven ready" colony

----------------------

SG(2)

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by solo
rjmatsleepers,

I hope things are sorted out okay for you, because 2.42 is the way to go when playing these comparison games. As a newcomer, and considering the handicaps you encountered in the first game, I think we can cut you a little slack, and allow a second attempt.

As far as I can tell, things are now sorted and I have 2.42 in one folder and FW in another. BTW what are the differences - apart from the ones I have already discovered?

Thanks for the dispensation. However have I already restarted in FW (just for fun) without keeping a log. I better not start yet again in 2.42. (Just imagine all that knowledge of the map and still landing in 2019 ) I'll join in the next early landing comparison - if we have one .

Thanks for all the help - particularly SG[1]

RJM at Sleepers

[solo]

Welcome to Monk,

No starting techs makes things harder, but the great SSC site is very good compensation.

BTW, what is the Wheel of Time series about?

SG(2),

What do it cost you to bribe Teno from the barbs? I can not remember if bribing barb cities is cheaper, which I would expect, since their units are much cheaper to bribe than corresponding AI units.

RJM,

I have not used FW so maybe SG(1) can tell you of other differences.

Have fun practicing and learning. I remember playing many practice OCC games in order to learn that system of play. The diplomacy part of it took quite awhile to get good at. I must have tried the 4 whales game about 10 times until I started producing results similar to Paul's and the other OCC master players.

[SCG]

Practice is really all I'm doing in this game right now. I did get one round where everything fell into place, I got 3 consecutive demanded gold deliveries from my SSC, and managed to fully understand the idea of unblocking commodities (I got my first 1-round tech in that time frame) Of course i completely have been ignoring the AI for trading - i still have only met 3 civs (I'm trying my best to follow the way of the Leaf Not much of a true Aiel in this game unfortunately, but is what is needed to succeed with this strategy.) Sorry, WoT reference

[Scouse Gits]

solo Tenochtitlan under the Red Flag cost 346g. I was badly in need of another overseas city having only one previously. I was hoping that the Aztecs may have founded the place in 4000BC which would have meant that it was processed last in the City Status build order so acting as a beaker overflow from the SSC (Rome) ... alas no!

------------------

SG(2)

[La Fayette]

aaaaaaaaaargh! 1803!
I didn't even manage to beat 1800 !

(
(La Fayette, ready to try and understand the modern trading techniques)

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by solo
SG(2),

What do it cost you to bribe Teno from the barbs? I can not remember if bribing barb cities is cheaper, which I would expect, since their units are much cheaper to bribe than corresponding AI units.

There is no difference between barb and non-barb units/cities. See the appropriate thread.

[solo]

Hmm, let's try a barb horseman first ...

[solo]

Now let's try the English one ...

[solo]

Zulu's have the best horsemen around, I guess ...

[solo]

Sorry that the diplomat blinked out of sight in the last one, but what I am missing and which thread is it that will refute these examples?

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

@solo - the thread is 'info - diplomats and spies' which ST bumped today, in this forum.

I think he refers to the idea that barb cities/units are not cheaper than non barb cities/units - if there is no palace in the latter's civ. But it's late and I'm going from memory here... the thread is a better place to look, probably.

[SCG]

just did a couple quick tests, if the civ is in anarchy, and has no palace and no gold (or is far enough away from the palace that corruption is dominant), a foreign unit will cost the same as a barb unit.

giving it a palace close by drives the cost through the roof. as does giving the civ lots of gold

[SCG]

version 2.42
AC 1926

First thoughts:
No known techs - means AI thinks we have good food land and no one in the immediate vicinity, also medium map. Also, we're on continent 1, so no way to know where the land ends and the oceans starts Looks like 26 land masses plus the poles. With no one near, I'm wondering if i can break 1500 or not
Its going to take some effort to remember not to tip huts - especially with one visible on the river too... would have been real nice to get a horsie from that, but then we're trying to eliminate that portion of randomness. So, off we go. With the SSC site location pre-suggested and no huts, first round movement is almost predetermined

BC years
3950: Found Home, let archeologists of the future dig in our cellars to see what was in the hut First big decision - fish (halve science turns) or river (halve warrior turns) - we need exploring units especially when we're likely alone, so plains. Second big decision - where to put first helper city. If we're looking at size 8 or smaller, then the option for 1 turn deliveries to Home by river would mean build south of wine now. Found Work, choose to work wine for extra early science - will change worker in Home to fish for 1 turn to get 3 turns for first tech.
3900: choose Alphabet
3850: change worker to fish in Home, change Work worker to river (science stays the same, increase production and food at expense of gold)
3800: discover Alphabet, choose Code of Laws, now 22 beakers for science... can produce a max of 4, place worker back on river (after moving Work worker back to Wine)
3750: option to buy warriors at 6 of 11 gold - purchace Home warrior, rearrange (3/22)
3700: Home builds warrior (finds a wine), change to settler, Purchace warrior at Work, rearrange (7/21)
3650: explore
3600: ...
3550:
3500: discover Code of Laws, now 33 beakers to Writing, rush 2nd warrior from Work to use at Home
3400: Home to size 2, tickle settlers
3300: Work size 2, rearrange for push for Writing (19/33, 7 beakers per turn)
3250: (26/33)
3200: Writing, start Horseback Riding since Ceremonial Burial is in the same category as Republic in hopes of reducing a tech, and to get the 2-row tickle
3050: meet Mongols, trade CoL for Horseback Riding!, hold off on tech gifting as apparently i only have 1 tech they don't so can't get to worshipful, tickle settlers at Home
3000: start Literacy, tickle settlers at Home
2900: (42/60)
2850: tickle setters at Work, (49/60), rearrange workers as Work can't produce 4 beakers
2800: Pliny calls our technology Pathetic and the Mongols tech as Hopeless, tickle settlers at Home
2750: Literacy, start Republic, tech cost now 78, hope to get settlers reproducing soon, but not enough food for regrowth to 2 yet, decide to sacrifice science for food for a couple turns
2600: Settlers produced at Home
2550: support Work warriors from Home to prevent disbanding
2500: Settlers produced at Work
2450: decide access to fish and wine and 3 spaces from Home is better than a canal... hope i don't regret it, Play founded, 25/78 to republic, 9 beakers per turn
2350: checks Oedo years as 43/72 -
2300: gift Literacy and writing to Mongols and turn down their offer of pottery, they go from uncooperative to Neutral, F3 says i'm still supreme and tech rate stays the same?
2250: F3 says I'm still Supreme, and mongols have more techs than i do, yet i'm still needing 72 beakers - i think i'm missing something here - 10 beakers from Republic and just missed an Oedo year... Cut science and raise production and taxes for 3 turns...
2050: Republic, Revolt, Caeser proclaimed Consul , Warriors disbanded at Home towards Library/Temple, tax rate adjusted for push for temples
2000: disband other 2 warrior towards library/temple, leaving 1 settler as lone military unit, 68 gold for emergencies
1850: Play at 2, party preparations begin at Home
1800: discover Ceremonial Burial, choose Bronze Working, finish temples at Work and Home, Home at 3
1750: Home throws a Parade
1700: Chinese build palace in Shanghai?
1650: Home size 5, party dies down
1550: Bronzeworking... begin Mysticism
1500: spot mongol units near Play, rush temple at Play and gift 3 techs to Mongols - they're up to Uncooperative, this could be a long game with the Mongols being so unfriendly..., tech rate doesn't change either, dispite my Supreme rating

Pausing for thought, Techs are decent, good to be in republic, but i really need more cities, and need trade. Look to Xinning for possible solutions - 1/6/3 brings 13+3+5=21 science, net 1 gold. Xinning allows 2/8/0 and 18+6+4=28 science, net 2 gold or 26 and net 3 gold... consider Xining for a couple turns to get mysticism since is still 117 beakers, though just using 4 scientists and a roaded wine, rearrange workers at Work and Play 30 science, net 2 gold and production for settlers at work.
1350: end Xinning to recoup food
1300: resume
1250: Mysticism, begin Currency, content enough now to be as productive without Xinning for now
1150: start Vacation with Whales, although not a lot of other useful stuff
1000: Currency, start Trade
950: Phalanx at Play, after spotting Mongols outside
925: Settlers at Work, start preparing for caravans, start wishing i had triremes to see what other Special at Home And Play is
875: Purchace rest of library to be ready for next turn
850: Trade, choose Mapmaking, start School between Work and Play - find that the bison are already in use.
Pausing again - we have 4 helper cities, although only 1 is really a helper of production, the other 3 are doing more science than building - i really need to get a couple more settlers improving terrain so we can get the caravans out. In the mean time, decide to invite a few more people over for a party at Home
775: Additions to Home make 7
750: see more mongols, Hostile again - gift 3 more techs - tech rate actually drops this time from 180 beakers to 156... (per rating still says i'm supreme, out of techs again, and still can't get even to neutral... I'll be lucky to beat some of my OCC games with this sort of luck with the AI
725: Mapmaking choose Philosophy, warrior at School just in case., beakers back up to 195..., change caravan at Home to trireme (i really would like that special - even if its fish, but preferably whales)
675: barbs land and kill Mongolian settlers nearby, meet 3 Mongol horsemen between School and Work and are Icy again... no new techs to gift, issue several levies on the learned, retrain settlers to be diplomats, recall warriors from Vacation
650: its fish... Well, I'm using 2 ordinary ocean squares, so its an improvement, even if not for shields...
625: Mongols insist that i have insulted then on multiple occasions, and declare war, bribe horseman with entire treasury, decide to start colony on northern island for trade...
600: produce headless horseman from mongol attacker near School, use for exhibits in science project
525: 2 more horsemen wish to try their luck - er, they were a phalanx and a horseman on a river, we are badly damaged but we survive, tickle several units everywhere.
500: Settlers from Play take an ocean cruise, tickle more units
475: Pretty Beads produced by local artisans at Home
375: beads sold to Vacationers for 56 gold
350: Philosophy, Banking, start Medicine
325: Hides brought home from Vacation for 56 gold, rush marketplace for Play
300: Wool for Exotic Vacation for 84 gold, Play plays
275: Several Mongol phalanxes charge to School, to little avail
250: several more mongol phalanxes and horsemen fail in charges, though still just the vet horsemen, and a couple of those were close., Play stops playing at 5
225: Mongols decide to offer peace.
tickle many units
125: beads produced at Exotic Vacation
50: beads brought to School (60 gold), more tickling
25: marketplace in Vacation, celebration...
AD Years
1: Some English monarch was beheaded by the Zulu nation... this is a violent world i'm in, not making it easy for me to sit back and trade
20: Masonry, choose Construction, Silver awarded from School taken Home (60 gold), Gold somehow now supplied to 2 different cities from Home, freeing Beads, beads not demanded by known cities though, much tickling
60: noticed Beijing is the #4 city, and controlled by Barbarians - its a dangerous world..., much tickling
100: Dye produced at Work
140: Construction, Choose Mathematics, gift Construction to Mongols, no change in #beakers required... (324), gift everything and is down to 270, but only cordial... You'd think i was playing MGE with these attitudes
160: Vacationers discover T-Dyeing of shirts, 28 Gold..., much tickling
180: establish embassy with Mongols... they have 3 cities
200: some tickling
220: rush aquaduct at Home, Home size 8
240: hmm, Coal now demanded by Home, deliver 5 caravans to an English Bard (in exile from Zulu captivity), decide to deliver the 6th one as well, will have another coal shortly
260: Shakespeare gets a Home Theater, and throws a party arty:
300: Mathematics, Choose Astronomy, Coal heats Home (140),
320: Food stored up preparing for an all-nighter staring at the sky
340: Herodotus calls us the largest Nation of the World, Mongols 3rd... (Can i restart? Mongols have all of 4 cities and I can still fit my entire explored world on standard zoom ) I still haven't been able to get Pottery from the Mongols either - maybe I'll try and see if they want to trade (again) - they tried to brag rather than trade when the got monarchy - hmm, they're researching seafaring - 2/3s of my cities really can use harbors
360: Astronomy Choose University, reissue Levy to boost Camel futures
380: Mongols discover Seafaring, gift Mathematics and Astronomy , get seafaring, only to receptive, partially rush harbor at Play (have 2 turns to complete or adopt a settler at home or work - mongol horsemen preventing irrigation...)
400: Zulu's build Hanging Gardens - knocks Beijing down to the #5 in the world, rush harbor at Play, more tickling
420: more tickling, Temple, worship allowed in School
440: neutral Mongol emmisary backed by the mathematics i gave him declares war without chance of discussion..., rebuild treasury at expense of science again... switch production to catapults and city walls for School Play, and Vacation
460: no cats seen yet, though Mongol settlers are running interference in a couple places
500: City walls at School, mongols kill Phalanx at play, trireme finishes him off (change to phalanx and rushed), cat spotted outside Vacation, horseman rushed, Home has lots of food delivered for a night of staring at the stars...
520: Vacationer horsemen drive off catapult, catapult near school retreats?, Play starts City walls, School rushes tickles a cat (science at 504 beakers...)
540: barb trireme spawns, arrives and lands 3? barb archers (no leader?) eyeing an undefended Exotic Vacation, panic reigns on the island as silk is stolen from the natives, Play threatened by mongolian horsemen again, diplomat starts Home Training, another diplomat recalled from School, can't afford city walls yet, hope fortified green phalanx can survive this round, move trireme Home, School cat learns from unsettling experience, but is out of action for a couple turns, School starts barracks

[understatement]At this time I am now convinced this is not going to be an early landing game[/understatement] I have an Observatory that isn't even being used (some scientists took up residency there, but i fell short on the military budget and may lose Play, so they have gone fishing instead...)

560: hostile takeover in Exotic Vaction, trade routes to it double 2 special agents dispatched, City walls rushed to Play
580: Phalanx more experienced at Play, using city walls now, mongol horseman Schooled on use of walls, special agents kidnap and brainwash reeducate archers.
600: more archers reeducated, mongol cat Schooled on use of defensive terrain, School barracks rushed, notice that Mongols had pillaged their own mines as a settler is rebuilding them (shared terrain, I never got a chance to use them )
620: Exotic Vacation now available for tourists again
640: Mongol legion waylays roads putting Vacation plans in jeopardy
660: legion intrigued by fast talking and reeducated

Ok, threat is contained, and we have a military presence, including a vet catapult, 2 vet horsemen, 2 vet phalanxes and 2 non archers. we have a barracks and/or city walls in 3 helper cities, and haven't discovered techs in 300 years. We're 4th in land area, and first in population with less than 1 million people. We've fallen to mighty from supreme and beaker research has gone up 20% thanks to an aggressive Zulu tribe wiping the English from the face of the earth. Not exactly what i had in mind when i set out for an early landing Going to finish a couple more defensive structures and then see if i can pick this republic back up off of the mat.

I think I'll just post highlights of the 2nd half of the game in the 2nd post

[SCG]

840: University, choose Theory of Gravity, Vikings build Great Library - the're likely going to get a lot of techs in a couple turns
860: another trireme and 3 barb archers (and no leader) spawn within city limits of Exotic Vacation, sell harbor to get gold, diplomat is 1 movement short to get to any archers... Scientists get paid holiday, attempt to get extorted as harbor got us to 65 gold (we only had 35 when captured)
880: Zulu's build Colossus, barb archer dies to green fortified warrior behind walls, barb leader pillages irrigation i had moved legion towards to keep archer from... kill barb leader (150 gold), try and remove the shadows near Exotic Vacation, do a bit of tickling
940: harbor rebuilt at Exotic Vacation... I need more boats, i need more caravans, i could use some more cities too..., various tickling to speed things along
1000: Coal (undemanded) for Play (32), trying to unblock demanded goods - no good - wrong route from Exotic Vacation was kept... Gonna have to use scientists at Home to keep the food supply,
1040: Theory of Gravity, choose Wheel, more tickling
1100: Hides (80) shown off in Exotic Vacation, Beads become more abundant as a result (and 2 Coal routes)
1120: Find Kashgar where i was sending Vacationing settlers, recall special agent from Work, much tickling
1140: Mongols offer Monarchy... we're still mighty, and only other tech is Pottery, and we've got Seafaring now - politely decline
1160: Beads brought Home (152), Go shopping, buy Kashgar for 86x2, get 25 cash back find Mongols have yet another city there as well, more tickling, rename to Shopping, still mighty... probably should have taken Monarchy instead of Pottery...
1200: Hides (104) Shown off on Exotic Vacation
1220: Wheel choose Chemistry, should have built a road from School to Play, would cut 2-3 turns off deliveries, start work now on that now (Gold can be delivered to Exotic Vacation and not replace a Home run)
1260: Gold (156) to Exotic Vacation, Nishapur subverted, renamed The Mall, choose Monarchy (only other mongol tech)
1280: trireme from Exotic Vacation to increase delivery speed, scientist at Home to preserve food, still Mighty
1360: Chemistry, choose Engineering, Wine taken on Vacation (54), Gold freed at School, rush gold caravan
1400: Gold to Exotic Vacation(156), some tickling
1420: Engineeering, Choose Sanitation, much herding of 2 Mongol settlers..., beakers at 896 (still mighty)
1500: Vikings build lighthouse, Mongols get chivalry (iron working earlier) from greeks, Sanitation, choose Economics, beakers at 928...
1540: Isaac Newton's College completed, still mightly, still 2nd in poplulation, probably to Zulus, more tickling, Mongols demand chemistry, pass on the demand...
1560: Economics, choose Invention, beakers now at 990..., much tickling
1570: Coal heats Home, frees Gold, Work grows, frees gold, not quite enough to rush both caravans..., Home 18, #1 in pop, still mighty...
1600: We Love (Shopping), Invention, choose Democracy, Home size 21, beakers now 1023..., more gold (demanded, 87) for Exotic Vacation, much tickling
1610: Mongols revolt to Monarchy, break peace and send knights against School walls, cancel plans to send demanded Dye to Samarkand...,
1620: convice Mongol legion, knights in armour cannot be trusted, decide i should have chosen navigation over Demo, issues another levy. also realize i never finished that catapult at Play..., lose phalanx and trireme at Play, but kill catapult and wound knights enough to run out of movement. bribe knight, sell temple at Home (had forgotten about that one), bribe 2nd knight, build fortress by NONE archers in forest, move legion into fortress
1630: bribe knight (NONE), must be within Bokhara city limits because still at Play too, and wouldn't likely be able to afford Karakorum knights, stumble onto Bokhara forest, hope to survive - plan hostile takeover...
1660: mongol knight wastes itself on knight in forest
1670: Infiltrate Bokhara, rename War Games, capture Iron Working, plan to placate Samarkand - civs are much less agressive when just 1 city (usually) - maybe i can finally trade with them. War Games is nice, if lacking roads (City walls, barracks, marketplace, colosseum, 2 vet phalanxes) - needs roads or a temple though, bribe phalanx in fortress outside Samarkand, move legion in, beakers up to 1056... Mongols sign cease fire, don't offer peace...
1680: Samarakand is 1080 gold... rethink purchaces, still mighty..., Play safe to irrigate now...
1690: decide to make push for Samarkand... i simply don't trust the Mongols with more than 1 city
1700: Party at Home, Exotic Vacation reproduces,
1710: Home 23, Mongols study School entrance exams, expecting a sneak attack, should have gold to purchace Samarkand next turn
1720: ignore Mongol foreign minister, they retreat?
1730: mongols go back to School
1740: diplomat graduates from School, notice Mongols are receptive- gift 3 techs, and exchange maps! Wonder where the mongols met the greeks, I only see 1 Zulu city... still mighty, beakers down to 1024, we have enough to buy Samarkand when they revolt again, notice missed oedo year, purchace a couple needed structures
1754: aim for Oedo discovery of Democracy at Home
1756: I'm way behind timewise, but got a perfect timing - Mongols sneak attack, discover, revolt and become Democracychoose Gunpowder, reeducate NONE settlers, convince Samarkand of error of its ways, rename Over There, bring in a couple barb chariots loitering near The Mall, much tickling
1758: Zulus build Magellans
1762: Leonardo's Workshop, Gunpowder at Home, much upgrading, still Mighty, choose Explosives
1768: Explosives, choose Bridge Building, we're supreme again beakers at 1008
1770: Zulus build Great Wall, fall to mighty again, beakers at 1188
1772: Wine (demanded, 50) taken to Work, Wool brought Home (undemanded, 30)
1774: Bridgebuilding, choose Metalurgy, Spice (124) arives Home from Shopping (plants image of Sporty and Ginger with many bags over their shoulders ), much tickling, Work send Coal (87) to Karakorum
1778: Metalurgy, choose Physics
1782: new Silver brought home from Shopping (102), Wine brought to Work(77) from home, much tickling
1784: Physics, choose Polytheism, beakers at 1365, still mighty... probably could have built MPE, and gifted lots of stuff to the Greeks, resigned to just playing out the game right now - have a large tech lead and long ago gave up thoughts of early landing, and still behind my OCC#1 log on dates
1790: Polytheism, choose Steam Engine, beakers at 1400
1792: Copper to Karakorum (demanded, 70)... recreates demand for gold
1794: Exotic Vacation Gold to Karakorum (demanded, 288!), gold stays demanded
1796: Steam Engine, choose Railroad, enslave stray phalanx, put to work in camel farms
1800: Railroad, choose Industrialization, Spice brought Home(102) from Over There, much tickling
1802: Aztecs build MPE
1804: Gems aquired from War Games for Shopping (72), some tickling, railroad finished between Home and School
1806: Industrialization, choose Conscription, Coal(48) from Over There heats Home, frees gold, much tickling
1808: Party Over There, railroad completed from Home all the way to Over There , some ticking
1810: We Love (Shopping), Conscription, choose Corporation, Gold to Karakorum (168), gold demand stays, rush gold caravans in 2 cities, exploring diplomat finds irrigation in the far east
1812: find Red China, diplomat retreats, ponders uses of a Barbarian great wall that protects me from China , old School gold (102), gold (90) from Over There delivered to Karakorum, gold now blocked, no cities producing demanded goods for that city, much tickling
1814: Red China falls to Mao's armies peace with China, discover Corporation, choose Monotheism, embassy in Beijing, Chinese have 15 techs, railroad now completed to Work, Oil(40) brought Home from The Mall, beakers at 1620..., some tickling
1816: Vikings build Michaelangelo's Chapel, railroad completed to The Mall from Vacation, and from Home to Play, leaving just Vacation (from Work), War Games to Play, and Shopping from The Mall for complete domestic transportation,
1820: Monotheism, choose Communism
1822: Darwin pulls an all-nighter, consuming much food
1824: Darwin's Voyage, Commumism, Refining, choose Combustion, beakers at 1776, Dye(60) to Exotic Vacation
1828: Combustion, choose Magnetism
1832: Gold (188) to The Mall from Home, Cloth (75) to Play from Over There, Coal (85) for Shopping from School
1834: Bede still rates me just Great, Mongols now Pathetic, Chinese hopeless, Magnetism, choose Flight, oil (33) Home from Work, some tickling
1836: gold to Karakorum..., Gems (210), for Shopping back from Exotic Vacation, frees copper
1838: Flight, ignore advisor who wants to build archers and choose electricity, some tickling
1840: Oil(43) Home from School, Wine(50) from Over There to Work, Copper (110) Karakorum from Exotic Vacation
1846: Electricity, choose Electronics, Copper (128), Coal (74) to Karakorum, beakers at 2028, Wine (64) to Karakorum..., Cloth(104) to Exotic Vacation
1848: Electronics, choose Refrigeration. Copper (83) Over There, Wool(75) taken on Exotic Vacation, beakers at 2067
1851: Refrigeration, choose Steel, Gems (142) Shopping
1853: Gold (53), Gold, (164) to karakorum... 2nd gold removed Dye demand, Dye retreats to Vacation (45), Cloth to Exotic Vacation (94)
1854: Vikings build Statue of Liberty, we discover Steel, choose [i]Espionage[/b] (bypassed superhighways to upgrade 2 diplomats...)
1856: Vikings build Adam Smith's
1857: Espionage, choose Radio
1858: Chinese develop Philosophy
1860: Radio, choose Automobile
1862: Automobile, choose Mass Production, beakers at 2320
1864: start completing superhighways,
1865: Aztecs build Eiffel Tower
1866: Mass Production, choose Atomic Theory
1867: Contact with Zulus, and have war declared :hmm: kill catapult with cannon
1868: Atomic Theory, Choose Warrior Code (not met anyone with it )
1869: realize its the zulu's blocking trade with Mongols, send several freights in, get Chivalry from Mongols (i can skip feudalism ), science at 2562 - wonder how high i can get it - following an isolationist policy atm
1871: Zulu ships charge fortress to no avail, 1 vet, barbs hang out near The Mall again, recruit a couple crusaders, Chinese discover warrior code, trade Trade for Warrior Code, exchange maps, find Canton and Nanking are still part of Red China, and that China still doesn't know anyone else either
1872: get a couple more supermarkets going
1873: Leadership, ponder why its offering Feudalism as a tech, choose Nuclear Fission, tech at 2646
1874: deliver Dye(104), opens Wine (137) and gold (to be built at Home next turn) to Karakorum, sell 2 city walls to see if we can get Nuclear Fission this turn in preps for that delivery (watch the gold stop being demanded )
1875: Nuclear Fission, choose Tactics, Gold (416) to Karakorum , try wonderbread trick to unblock gold - worked , barb leader (150), may try at School if Gold doesn't get blocked at Home next turn
1876: gold (424) to Karakorum, Wine unblocked at Karakorum, Wonder Bread frees Gold and Wine respectively
1877: Tactics, choose Genetic Engineering (no other choice), mongol phalanx blocks freight deliveries, sell walls, deliver cloth in hopes of unblocking Dye, and being able to bribe phalanx (602), will make a nice freight starter Cloth (106) Home from Over There, Dye unblocked, can buy phalanx Gold (318, 88, 220), Wine (137) to Karakorum. Gold now traded at Home... ponder options, Greeks have aquired some techs, is down to 2405 beakers, School out of freights so can't free wine, Shopping can free Dye, but no easily deliveries for it, salt (74) to Karakorum, will allow unblocking of gold at Exotic Vacation later, unblock wine at Vacation (its nice to have the gold and the demand for once to do that sort of thing )
1878: Pliny reports I've fallen to 3rd?, Genetic Engineering, choose Machine Tools, Wine (120), Gold(200) to Karakorum, Dye (160) to Exotic Vacation, big catering party for the geneticists while Shopping, fiddle with techs
1879: barb dragoons spawn and land outside War Games, kill 6!!! Engineers, pillage farmland and irrigation I can't even bribe them cause they're stacked on the 2 squares! Crusaders avenge the fallen innocents. President Caesar calls it a terrible act of cowardess and vows to fight terrorism. Flags fly at half staff.
1881: Machine Tools, choose Advanced Flight, Wool(132) to Exotic Vacation
1883: Advanced Flight, Choose Miniaturization, Gems (280) for Shopping
1884: Greeks and Zulus sign Isandhlwana pact? *tries to remember if i have any contact with either *, Dye (139) to Karakorum
1885: Miniaturization, choose Computers
1887: Computers, choose Nuclear Power
1888: Greeks and Mongols sign Athens Pact?
1890: Nuclear Power, choose Rocketry
1892: SETI Program
1893: Rocketry, choose Space Flight
1894: [b]Space Flight[b], choose Plastics
1897: Plastics choose Guerrilla Warfare
1899: Apollo Program, i really needed more freight , hey! i'm finally supreme Chinese finally out populate Red China, Aztecs also only have 2 cites, stare forelornly at 15 untipped huts Zulu's have nearly as many size 12 cities (8) as i have cities (10), of course 3 of mine are size 28+
1900: Vikings build Women's Suffrage, we discover Guerrilla Warfare, choose Laser, build 3 structurals
1901: 2 SSS, 1 SSC
1902: Mongols sneak attack, take out a riflemen, make 2 more vet, 3 more SSS, one Cannon vet from killing a warrior
1903: Zulus and Vikings sign Bapedi Pact..., 4 more SSS, empty Greek frigate thinks there's no place like Home,
1904: Zulus and Aztecs sign Cunaxa Pact..., 1 SSC, 1 SSS, 2 Greek frigate attack Home, 1 dies, 1 takes out Rifleman, bribe 2nd frigate
1905: 2 SSC, 1 SSS
1906: The Laser, choose Superconductor, 1 SSS, Coal (330), Wine (183), Gold (198) to Karakorum, beakers at 3040
1907: Superconductor, choose (ack, no labor fusion power) Labor Union
1909: Labor Union, choose Fusion Power, 2 SSM
1910: Viking and Zulu destroyers spotted on Vacation and outside The Mall
1911: Fusion Power, choose Mobile Warfare, Zulus show off Amphibious Warfare, 1 SSM, Launch (1926 land date)
1917: Chinese discover the wheel!!!
1920: Zulus and Mongols sign Cannae pact, Mongols and Greeks have automobile now, Robotics, ignore science minister's request feudalism and choose Stealth
1921: Stealth choose Amphibious Warfare, beakers at 3280
1922: Vikings send in the Marines, they desert
1924: Vikings and Chinese sign the Shnghai Pact
1926: AC

OK, it was a little more than just highlights - but then i had by far my most successful trading in the 2nd half of the game


Final Thoughts: I probably could have placed my helper cities a little better. Work was the only one that really accomplished the goals of a helper city. Play was under too much stress from the Mongols to do anything worthwhile for the longest time. I never did finish mining the hills around the city, and didn't finish irrigating either. Exotic Vacation was sufficient for an emergency trading colony, but was too small and too close for real bonuses. And i really had absolutely no help whatsoever from the AI. I didn't explore much because of pressure from the Mongols, and the AI never came and found me... China consisted of 1 city (Shanghai) surrounded by cities they had lost to the barbarians for nearly the entire game. My beakers were close to double what I used to get in OCC games - trading with the greeks (or english before they were killed off) would have brought those back in line. The one thing this game was useful for was to get a chance to practice unblocking trade. Also, once i started defending, I started to really grow my other cities and never bothered to change luxuries below 30% (didn't raise them either except for 1 short time). Granted, by the end of the game, my other 9 cities produced about 2x the science of my SSC, but that probably wasn't worth not being able to lower luxuries. Then again, without the larger cities, I would have been wiped out by the Mongols The biggest thing that really slowed me down probably was the not really adhering to any one strategy, and wound up missing out on a couple things i might have wanted (I was considering going for Colossus around the time the Zulu's built it. Anyway, I'm sure I'll have better luck next time, as I have a bit better understanding of what I want to do for trading

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by SCG


Launch (1926 land date)

Thanks for the log, SCG - very helpful (and quite a few echoes of my early game )

BTW I've discovered another FW funny in my restarted (just for fun) game. I moved the cursor up to look at the tax rate - and there was no tool bar

So I'll be trying another "just for fun" restart in 2.42

RJM at Sleepers

[solo]

STYOM,

Thanks for pointing me to that excellent thread.

Slow Thinker,

Thanks for bumping that thread, and now I think I see what you meant by equal costs. However, in actual game situations, it still looks to me that you can usually get the best deal when bribing the barbs. I was unaware of all your excellent research on this topic and I look forward to studying it in greater detail.

SCG,

I noticed your log and look forward to reading it after my own is ready for posting.

[SCG]

Originally posted by solo
SCG,

I noticed your log and look forward to reading it after my own is ready for posting.

Especially after things got out of hand turnwise, I probably put as much time into playing with city names as i did actually playing - hope I don't get beat up too much for the Spice Girls joke And I did take out several of my jokes as the game dragged out as long as it did and didn't want people having to change to 10 posts per page to get my log to load

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by SCG
just did a couple quick tests, if the civ is in anarchy, and has no palace and no gold (or is far enough away from the palace that corruption is dominant), a foreign unit will cost the same as a barb unit.

I think that anarchy doesn't affect the price.

Originally posted by solo
Thanks for bumping that thread, and now I think I see what you meant by equal costs. However, in actual game situations, it still looks to me that you can usually get the best deal when bribing the barbs.

I agree. Civs without capital and with 0 gold are rare.

Originally posted by SCG
Also, we're on continent 1, so no way to know where the land ends and the oceans starts

How do you see continent numbers with 2.42? On my computer it works with MGE only.

[SlowThinker]

SG[1], I beated your record! In 2800BC a half of my empire was destroyed by barbs. I was helpless, two archers rose up at my city, my warrior heroically survived the first attack, but not the second. Veii and one supported settler were destroyed. I resigned.

But I started a new game, out of the contest, of course. I played the beginning exactly same way as in my first (abandoned) game, with 2 differences:
1. I went to monarchy and in my first game I decided to risk and to get Bronze Working as the 1st tech. In my second game I got Writing as the 3rd tech in place of BronzeW. I think BronzeW is better for early rushbuys, but Writing grants a little better defense IMHO, especialy against barbs (anyway I would be helpless with Writing as well, barbs came very soon)
2. Barbs forgot to come!

I must admit I missed the ideal SSC site. Although I use the SGs hut and specials finder, I didn't use it in 4000BC. I didn't come upon the idea that I could found a city outside of the river. So I founded Veii one tile South from the SSC.
I realized this fact somewhere in 1000BC, but after some consideration I think it was not a big mistake, maybe it was the correct play. I gained a logistic advantage in comparison with that ideal SSC site. Also I think there is not a big difference between an average SSC site and an excellent one.

I am in 400BC now, I have Marco Polo, HG, 11 cities, I am heading to Colossus on a small island West-North from the starting position.

[Scouse Gits]

ST ... I too can see continent numbers with 2.42 by right clicking.

--------------------

SG(2)

[SCG]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
How do you see continent numbers with 2.42? On my computer it works with MGE only.

You must have an earlier release than 2.42. I used to have Civ II, v 1.07 and couldn't see continent numbers (and engineers ingored ZOC, bombers could fortify etc)

[Bloody Monk]

SlowThinker,

Right click in the black. If it is not ocean, the third coordinant will be different. This can be confusing if you are sited on Continent #1, as ocean reads as #1 also. Same as MPG.

I have a disk that is 2.42; no need to patch. Maybe the patch to original game lacks this feature????

Monk

[ottok]

Originally posted by solo
Now let's try the English one ...

it means that english are Riched than Barbaarians And zulus riched at they!?

But what it is? In one game
i try buy one "barbaarians" Horsemen and i cant buy it:
2130 golds!

Think how much gold i hawe all?


I play celt-zulu-german-spanish-chinese-english-mongols-barbiaans game. all at mee !

[ottok]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
SlowThinker,

Right click in the black. If it is not ocean, the third coordinant will be different. This can be confusing if you are sited on Continent #1, as ocean reads as #1 also. Same as MPG.

I have a disk that is 2.42; no need to patch. Maybe the patch to original game lacks this feature????

Monk

2.4.2?

[solo]

Early landing comparison game #1

I landed in 1276 AD after a launch in 1240.

BC years

3950 Rome
3850 Veii

Rome was at the SSC site. Veii was at the coast at the end of the left hand river. The wine in Rome and the two rivers added some extra trade early, which helped speed up discoveries.

3700 Alphabet, Rom – warrior
3400 Rome – warrior

Veii started with a settler. The plan was for one warrior from Rome to arrive in time to establish martial law before Veii reached size two. The earliest priority is 4 cities, so explorations must wait until this is done.

3350 Code of Laws
3100 Vei – settlers
2900 Antium

Antium was at the first location eastward along the coast from Veii that had a grassland city tile and access to a whale.

2850 Writing

Writing is on the way to early Republic, and it also permits diplomats, who are the best land units for early explorations.

2800 Rome – settlers

This settler will be used for the 4th city, and headed along the coast westward from Rome, looking for a good site.

2650 Ant – warrior
2450 Cumae, barb trireme appears next to Rome

Cumae was on the coast and had a whale to work. Cumae was the 4th city and since 4 cities are the limit for Despotism, the remaining two helpers will be added when the switch is made to Republic. Libraries are being used to accumulate shields for temples until Ceremonial Burial is discovered.

2400 Rome attacked

Without much gold on hand, all I could do was sit tight and hope for the best. Rome survived an attack by a barb archer and its warrior became a veteran. The other barb archer headed off towards Veii and attacked it later. Veii’s warrior survived this with the help of the river’s defensive bonus.

2300 Ceremonial Burial, Mongols discover Veii, Ceremonial Burial given on demand followed by a peace treaty.

It was nice to have found the purple civ so early, but it was also too bad that it happened to be the volatile Mongols, who were looking for trouble. The fact that they were cornered by Roman cities did not augur well.

2250 Vei – temple

The first priority for helpers after making a settler for a new city is to produce a temple to control happiness now and especially a bit later, when the switch is made to early Republic. There is a temptation to use more martial law in the early going, but doing so makes the transition to Republic more difficult. Some players may opt for building the Hanging Gardens instead of using temples, but this plan has a few things working against it in early landing games. Pottery must be learned first, which is an off-path tech, and taking time to acquire it delays the switch to Republic. The HG expires fairly early with the discovery of Railroad, when temples will have to be built, anyways. Controlling helper happiness with luxuries during Republic, and later during Democracy, is not a good idea, either, as this reduces income considerably and can limit research capacity. A clinching argument for early temples is that there isn’t that much else to be doing before the discovery of Trade permits caravans.

2200 Cma – warrior

(I usually use just the first 3 letters of a city’s name when listing builds, but with Cumae this presents a slight conflict with the word choices permitted on these forums!)

1950 Ant – temple
1800 Literacy

Monarchy must be skipped, of course, to reduce tech carrying costs. If acquired, its benefits would not be in effect long enough to make this a worth while plan. It’s better to get to Republic a few turns sooner.

1500 Vei – settlers, Rom – temple
1450 Republic, switch made, Mongols demand it, so it is given. Trade for Bronze Working.

The Mongols also have The Wheel and Horseback Riding, but these will not be needed until later. Now that I’m in Republic, the discovery of Trade becomes a priority, and Bronze Working saves a step along the way. With knowledge of Republic, the Mongols also made the switch and became less menacing afterwards. Warriors that have not already been disbanded to help make temples are disbanded now to free up shields. Now that I have a tech lead, that is all that is needed to keep the AI peaceful, and diplomats can be built, when needed, to deal with barbarian appearances. All cities will be without defense until a space ship is launched, later. Doing this is not as risky as it may seem to those who are used to dealing more aggressively with the AI.

1400 Cma – temple, Ant – settlers, Rome – settlers, Neapolis

Neapolis was westward along the coast from Veii, and was a great location, being on a river and also having a rivered buffalo. The Rome settlers set to work improving the SSC site. After irrigating a grassland, one of the first jobs was to mine those hills having wine, to make the most out the citizens working those tiles.

1250 Mysticism, Pompeii

Mysticism came just in time since the early cities were reaching size 3. Pompeii was located along the coast, southeast of Antium, and had the fish and spice specials. It was also on a river. Having so many rivers around was a great boon to early research and transportation. The first few caravans produced made it to their destinations a lot quicker because of these handy rivers. Cumae was the only city lacking this advantage. Later on, not as many harbors were needed for helpers because of the extra trade and adequate food available from rivered grassland tiles.

1000 Map Making

Map Making is the last key tech needed before pushing on to the discoveries of Trade, Medicine and Sanitation. Now explorations can commence to find an early trading partner, so that the first caravans can be traded for some quick advances and for some extra gold to finance SSC development.

950 Nea – temple, Cma – settlers

Building a settlers in Cumae was a probably not the best thing to do, since this left Cumae lacking enough food to grow to size three, even if some time were taken for extra irrigation. A diplomat or trireme first would have been a better idea, but I was anxious to connect this city to Rome with a road quickly. After extending the road part way, I acknowledged my error and cut my losses by having this settler rejoin Cumae, to get it up to a more productive size 3.

925 Vei – diplomat, Ant – trireme
875 Currency
850 Pom – temple, contact Aztecs, they demand a tech, I refuse, and they declare war.

I know I have been recommending appeasement in earlier posts in this thread, but when the AI is on a separate continent, they do not pose an immediate threat, so a declaration of war does not present a problem. If they have useful techs to trade, they are more likely to do this when peace is established later and relations are on the rebound. However, in situations where a vulnerable caravan is standing by an AI city waiting to be delivered, or when an AI catapult or chariot arrives on the doorstep of a colony demanding Philosophy, appeasement is always the best choice. The AI could be bluffing, but there’s no point in denying their demands to find out they really wanted an excuse to start a war.

775 Trade, Aztecs contacted, peace, trade for Masonry, give tech, share maps.

During this exchange, I also found out that the Aztecs had acquired Monarchy and Warrior Code. With the exchange of maps, all of the target cities for early caravan deliveries were revealed.

700 Nea – wine

This will go to an Aztec city. For helpers such as Neapolis, the first commodity choice was the most valuable one in demand that could be delivered quickly. Wine was wanted by the Aztecs and has an excellent demand bonus.

675 Philosophy, and the freebie is Construction, Aztecs – give tech, share maps; Mongols – trade for The Wheel, give tech, share maps

It wasn’t until now that I had accumulated enough of a tech lead to work the Mongol attitude up to worshipful, in order to share maps. Earlier in the game, I only had enough techs to keep them appeased.

650 Vei – wool, Cma – trireme
625 Rom - copper

The trireme built in Cumae headed to Rome. While there it would reveal the rest of the ocean tiles in Rome’s city radius and would be rehomed to that city, before heading back towards the Mongols with the copper caravan built in Rome.

600 Ant – dye
525 contact Chinese, peace, give tech, share maps

The Chinese offer to trade Seafaring, which I will want to trade for later when a harbor is needed.

500 Pom – settlers, Medicine, wool(d) to Tenochtitlan, 144g, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 160g

Finally, some gold to speed up Rome’s development. These deliveries also trigger the first 1 turn advance of the game. In my opinion, the onset of trade is the most significant milestone in an early landing game. Before trade, everything comes slowly and with difficulty. Afterwards, it’s just the reverse.

475 Engineering, Rom – beads
450 Nea – cloth, Cma – salt, copper(d) to Karakorum, 104g

This is the first trade route for Rome, and more importantly, became one of the rail connection routes that were so useful later on, after a helper was added next to Rome as a “station”.

425 Rom – wool
400 Pisae

Pisae was the first colony and had access to 2 whales and a buffalo. It was located east of the Aztec cities on their continent. Next to it was another excellent colony site, too.

375 Ant – hides, Vei – dye, Sanitation, Rom – marketplace, dye(d) to Texcoco, 120g

With Sanitation, all tech needed for SSC growth was in place, and all that was needed was Shakespeare’s Theater to get this going.

300 contact Vikings, they demand a tech, war; Mongols, give tech, share maps
275 Vei – hides, Banking
250 Cma – beads
225 Ant – settlers, Rom – food, contact English, trade for Iron Working, give tech, share maps; Chinese – trade for Seafaring

200 Nea – cloth, Rom – Shakepeare’s Theater, we love commences, beads(d) to Tlatelolco, 240g

175 Pom – settlers
150 Rom – harbor
125 Pis – settlers, Mongols – give tech, share maps; Vikings, peace, give tech, share maps
100 Vei – dye, Rom – aqueduct, Mathematics, English – give tech, share maps; beads(d) to Texcoco, 328g; barb horseman bribed, 41g

75 contact Zulus, they demand gold, war
50 Cma – dye, Rom – bank, Zulus – peace, give tech, share maps

I guess the Zulus didn’t really mean to start a war. Another AI inanity is that they often will make peace the turn after declaring war! With a marketplace and bank in Rome, it will start to be earning extra gold coins every turn. These improvements allow the celebration to continue with a lower luxury setting, too, allowing faster research.

AD years

1 Nea – coal
20 Bridge Building

Normally I wait on this one, since the odds are good an AI will learn it in time for a trade, but all those rivers needed bridges. I had thought that this tech among many others would be available through trade from the AI in this game, because we had no free techs at the start and because the AI were likely to tip more huts for techs. However, this did not happen in my own game, where I only got the usual number of techs from the AI via trades.

40 beads(d) to Tenochtitlan, 280g
60 Ant – wool, Rom – coal
100 Rom – sewer system
120 Pom – beads, University, Cma – dye, Rom – Colossus, dye(d) to Tlatelolco, 216g; Zulus, Vikings, English – give tech, share maps

One of the AI almost beat me to building the Colossus wonder.

140 Vei – hides
160 Pis – temple, Nea – cloth, Rom – library
180 Astronomy, beads(d) to Tlaxcala, 96g, wool(d) to Tlaxcala, 120g
220 Pis – beads
260 Economics, Rom – size 21, we love ends
280 Cma – salt, Ant – coal, Vei – hides, Rom – gold
300 Nea – coal, Rom – coal
320 Theory of Gravity, beads(d) to Rome, 420g

This was the first colony delivery back to Rome, and it pays off big time.

360 Ant – food, Rom – university, Ravenna

Ravenna was the second colony and was founded next to Pisae, the first. Unfortunately, while Pisae’s settler was making roads and preparing for Ravenna, the Aztecs snuck in with a settler and founded a city of their own close by, which made it a tight fit for Ravenna. The Aztec city hogged some of the best river tiles in the area, so a harbor for Ravenna became a necessity. However, this city was easy to reach when quick trades had to be made, so its presence was also somewhat beneficial.

380 Pom – wine, Chemistry, Mongols – give tech, share maps, gold(d) to Samarkand, 462g

Now another route to a Mongol city had been established with Rome in preparation for the rail trade route bonus later on.

400 Rom – stock exchange, dye(d) to Tenochtitlan, 296g, hides(d) to Tlaxcala, 144g
420 Rav – beads, Navigation, Pom – salt, Nea – coal, Cma – salt, Ant – coal, Vei – hides, Rom – Copernicus’s Observatory

440 Pis – salt, Invention

So much for good caravan payoffs. Now it’s a race to Democracy, and on to Corporation quickly in order to get trade going full tilt again.

460 Rav – harbor, Vei – hides, Rom – food
480 Democracy, Mongols, give tech, share maps, coal(d) to Samarkand, 195g

I just missed the 460 oedo year for switching governments, which was too bad, since if this can be timed correctly, a turn of research will not be wasted with a revolution when changing governments.

(to be continued)

[solo]

500 Rav – temple, Rom – wool
520 Rom – wine, Physics, revolution

At this time I was learning my 32nd tech, which is when the commodity wildcards for cities change. This introduced some new commodities in Rome at just the right time. Previously, three trade routes had been established with two Mongol cities, which were “sticking”, since these Mongol cities had excellent base trade. This meant that “wonder bread” could be used when newer commodities were delivered from Rome, since the Mongol trade routes were not being replaced. It also meant that deliveries made to Rome would not block commodities that it was demanding.

At this point, a break was taken to figure out which commodities Rome would be supplying and demanding once it was fully developed and after certain techs affecting supply and demand were acquired, and it was determined that Rome would be supplying wine and dye, but that if Pottery were acquired, salt would take the place of dye. I wanted to supply dye, so put off trading for Pottery until the end of the game, saving that trade to reset the tech list. I also determined that Rome would be demanding coal, oil and spice later on, but that when Nuclear Fission was discovered, this would mask the desire for coal.

So the next step was to figure out the demand wildcards for each of the AI cities, in an attempt to find matches for what the SSC would be trading. Supply wildcards of bribable AI cities were also checked to see if any would be suppliers of coal, oil, and spice. I discovered that it would serve me best to keep the Aztec tech total below 32, since this would keep up a good and repeatable demand for wine in Tlatelolco. I also noticed that Isandhlwana, a Zulu size three city, would become a good supplier of spice, which Rome wanted. Its coastal location provided easy access to other Zulu inland cities, too, so when the time was right, I sent in a diplomat to incite a revolt.

540 Rom – Sir Isaac Newton’s College, switch to Democracy, salt(d) to Rome, 234g

The salt came from the first colony, Pisae, which had reached size 3 and had enough trade to displace a Mongol trade route. Doing this unblocked the supply of coal in Rome.

Now that Rome was fully developed, helpers could turn to making harbors and colosseums, to get ready for their own growth. They had already begun on this after enough caravans had been made for Sir Isaac’s.

560 Ant – harbor, Rom – coal, Gunpowder, beads to Rome, 126g

This trade to Rome from the other colony, Ravenna, replaced the Pisae route with its own by lowering the base trade in Pisae temporarily before making the delivery. This trade also unblocked the supply of wine in Rome.

580 Pis – colosseum, Pom – colosseum, Magnetism
600 Rav – colosseum, Cma – harbor, Rom – wine
620 Steam Engine, wine(d) to Nottingham, 165g
640 Pis – copper, Railroad, Chinese, Vikings – give tech, share maps, Zulus – war, Mongols – give tech, share maps, coal(d) to Smarakand, 134g

This final coal trade was made to Smarakand after lowering the base trade in Ravenna enough to replace its route with the one from Samarkand. After this, Rome had three routes established with Mongol cities, in time to get a rail connection established. These routes would “stick” for the rest of the game after this was done.

A war was provoked with the Zulus to justify the dirty work needed to subvert Isandhlwana.

660 Rav – dye, Nea – colosseum, Vei – colosseum, Rom – diplomat, Metallurgy
680 Pis – galleon, wool(d) to Tlatelolco, 344g

The trireme not assigned to Rome was disbanded in Pisae while building a galleon to continue trade with the Aztecs. The trireme assigned to Rome was headed for Isandhlwana.

700 Rom – coal, Industrialization, Nea – transport, Isandhlwana bribed, 488g, 72 gold and Horseback Riding in tribute; Zulus – peace, give tech, share maps

Somehow, I don’t think a human opponent would have wanted a peace treaty right after such treachery. I consider this lack of revengeful feelings to be an endearing AI trait! This city came with a harbor and many military units and took some of the steam out of the Zulu’s aggression towards the English.

720 Isa – colosseum, we love starts in all cities

Isandhlwana had many military units. I disbanded more than were needed to build a temple, so started it off with a colosseum, instead.

740 Mongols – give tech, share maps, dye(d) to Karakorum, 115g, Hispalis, another settler joins the city

Hispalis was located just outside Rome’s city radius, and was used as a station leading to Samarkand and Karakorum, the two Mongol cities making up the three trade routes in Rome. An instant rail bonus was established a few turns later by the remaining settler, which ended up doubling the amount of continuing trade being earned by these routes. Since the “goto” route used by the game to determine this bonus can be tricky, station placement should be as close as possible to the SSC to make sure this benefit is claimed, especially when more than one AI city is involved. The individual “goto” routes to Samarakand and Karakorum diverged after leaving Hispalis. Now, 1 turn advances are easily attainable with city science.

Hispalis served another function, acting as the recipient of “wonder bread” from Rome, when this ploy was needed to re-supply Rome’s wine and dye. Hispalis never grew and just accumulated shields that were used to help build the Apollo wonder later on.

760 Corporation, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 430g
780 His – temple, Isa – silk, Pis – cloth, Rom – dye, Rav, Vei – transports, coal(d) to Samarkand, 137g

800 Cma, Ant – colosseums, Rom – wine, Refining, copper(d) to Rome, 176g, we love ends

Now all helpers except Hispalis were at size 7 or 8, and all colonies were at size 7. Rome reached its maximum size of 24 citizens, and could produce 1008 beakers, now that the rail connections were in place. These had doubled the three ongoing trade route values from 12 to 24 arrows, each. Without this bonus, Rome would have only been producing 786 beakers. Helpers and colonies were adding a little over 200 beakers, so at the maximum science setting, 1227 beakers were available. The current tech cost was only 1134.

820 Isa – temple, Pis – gold, Pom – salt, Explosives
840 Combustion, dye(d) to Calixtlahuaca, 532g, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 650g, Mongols – give tech, share maps

860 His – engineers, Rav – engineers, Atomic Theory, Isa –coal, Pom – dye, Nea – engineers, Cma – coal, Ant – gems, Vei – engineers, Rom – dye, Electricity

This was the first of many turns with two advances. The only disadvantage with Rome, was that its freights could not reach transports on the south coast without using up movement points. It’s desirable to deliver an SSC freight on the turn it is produced, so that another can be re-supplied more quickly with wonder bread. Most of these new engineers were used to speed up the rail connection from from Rome to Veii. One engineer was going to be sent to make some roads leading to inland Aztec cities, such as Tlatelolco, so that freights landing on that continent could reach their destinations without wasting a turn.

860 Rom – food, gold(d) to Hispalis, 132g

Each food produced by Rome, when contributed to the wonder being built in Hispalis, caused a re-supply of wine and dye, since neither commodity had been used in the 3 railed routes to the Mongol cities. Wine was always in demand in Tlatelolco, and dye was always in demand somewhere else.

880 Rom – wine, Electronics, salt(d) to Calixtlahuaca, 152g
900 His – silk, Rav – wine, Isa – beads, Pom – library, Steel, cloth(d) to Cumae, 192g, silk(d) to Calixtlahuaca, 294g

920 Pis – gold, Vei – copper, Automobile, dye(d) to Kaupang, 680g, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 660g

More turns with two advances are imminent. Automobile means superhighways, and things that are already very good, get dramatically better when this improvement is added to Rome and all of the helpers and colonies.

940 His – dye, Mass Production, Rav, Pom – superhighways, Nea – silver, Cma – hides, Rom – superhighways, Nuclear Fission, gold(d) to Pompeii, 218g, gems(d) to Nottingham, 300g, English – trade for Warrior Code, share maps, Aztecs – trade for Monarchy, share maps

The addition of superhighways in Rome increased its beaker capacity to 1308.

960 Isa – spice, Pis – superhighways, Rom – food, Conscription, silk(d) to Ravenna, 188g, silver(d) to Rom – 300g, copper(d) to Tenochtitlan, 180g

980 Isa – dye, Nea – cloth, Vei – superhighways, Rom – wine, Feudalism, wine(d) to Karakorum, 397g, copper(d) to Tenochtitlan, 306g

1000 Rav – oil, Pis – cloth, Pom – gold, Cma – superhighways, Rom – dye, Chivalry, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 1008g

1020 Isa, Nea, Ant – superhighways, Vei – transport, Rom –food, Leadership, Zulus – give tech, share maps, coal(d) to Pompeii, 544g, beads(d) to Hispalis, 188g, oil(d) to Rome, 1026g, cloth to Veii, 116g

1040 Nuclear Power, Rav – cloth, Pis – gold, Pom – university, Cma – oil, Rom – wine, Laser, coal(d) to Pisae, 400g, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 1062g, hides(d) to Tlaxcala, 360g

1060 Tactics, Isa – engineers, Pom – oil, Nea – gold, Ant – library, Vei – library, Rom – food, dye(d) to Beijing, 336g, dye(d) to Tlaxcala, 828g, dye(d) to Hlobane, 546g, Vikings, Mongols – give tech, trade maps

The Vikings were given enough techs to make sure they had more than 32, because a destination for some gold was needed, and Kaupang’s demand wildcard would be gold when the Vikings had enough techs.

1080 Machine Tools, Rav – food, Pis – cloth, Pom – silk, Cma – copper, Vei – university, Rom – wine, Mobile Warfare, spice(d) to Rome, 1074g, gold(d) to Hispalis, 200g, wine(d) to Tlatelolco, 1005g

Trades peaked on this turn with over 2200 gold earned.

1100 Miniaturization, Nea – food, Ant – university, Rom – dye, Computers, oil(d) to Ravenna, 537g, cloth to Ravenna, 32g, dye(d) to Teotihuacan, 104g

1120 Rav – oil, Pis, Pom, Cma – food, Vei – dye, Rom – Research Lab, Flight, silk(d) to Kaupang, 330g, gold(d) to Kaupang, 330g, gold(d) to Kaupang, 378g, dye(d) to Tlatelolco, 500g, copper(d) to Texcoco, 252g

The silk trade to Kaupang was used to trigger the appearance of its gold demand wildcard. On the previous turn, the cloth delivery to Ravenna was used to unblock its supply of oil. Beakers available peaked here, with Rome producing 1368 and the other cities adding another 458 for a total of 1826, which was more than enough.

1140 Radio, Isa – dye, Nea – food, Cma – oil, Ant, Rom – food, Advanced Flight, oil(d) to Rome, 598g, Mongols – trade for Pottery, give tech, share maps

Now that trade was winding down, Pottery could be acquired to allow research to be switched to Rocketry instead.

1160 Rav, Pis – food, Pom – gold, Vei – food, Rome – dye, Rocketry, dye(d) to Nottingham, 232g, oil(d) to Isandhlwana, 480g, dye(d) to Tlaxcala, 432g

1180 Isa – spice, Pom – dye, Nea, Cma, Ant – food, Rome – wine, Space Flight, wine(d) to Bokhara, 176g, oil(d) to Ravenna, 358g, Zulus – 200g tribute, give tech, share maps, Chinese – give tech, share maps, Aztecs – trade for Communism, share maps, Mongols – give tech share maps

I was looking for an AI that had a tech to trade to reset the tech list next turn.

1200 His – Apollo Program, Rav – oil, Isa – diplomat, Pis, Vei – food, Rom – salt, Plastics, spice(d) to Rome, 947g, cloth(d) to Hlobane, 350g, gold(d) to Kaupang, 300g, English – give tech, share maps

1220 All helpers and colonies – SS structurals, Rome – SS Component, Superconductor, salt(d) to Nottingham, 608g, oil(d) to Rome, 629g, dye(d) to Samarkand, 296g, Mongols – 50g tribute, give tech, share maps

Not too greedy on part of the Mongols, since I had over 4000 gold.

1240 His – SS Component, Rav – SS structural, Isa – SS Module, Pis – SS structural, Pom – SS Module, Nea, Cma, Ant, Vei – SS structurals, Rom – SS Module, Fusion Power 15-1-1-1-1-1, Launch, ETA 1276

Well, at least I was able to launch by Dr. Spike’s landing date! I had over 2000 gold leftover, and had purchased most of the spaceship with cash from trades, so could have made a faster ship by building two more cities a few turns earlier.

Once a spaceship is launched, the game becomes boring for me and doing things like building more wonders or attacking the AI were worn out amusements while waiting 36 turns, so for this game I decided to defend and play it Gandhi style, and adopted a policy of non-violent resistance.

I defended my cities, but never attacked nor declared war on any of the AI, and they were not impressed. During this time the Aztecs devoted themselves to some single-minded sabotage against Pisae, and with an almost endless supply of diplomats, stripped that city of all improvements and sabotaged every build attempted there for the rest of the game. This put me into Anarchy for awhile, during which the Zulus got even by reclaiming Isandhlwana by inciting a revolt. The other AI were not impressed with the non-violent approach, either, and numerous “secret” alliances were formed to try and do in the Romans. My attempts at Satyagraha failed miserably with the AI, and I have concluded that they have no conscience or morals, whatsoever.

1276 Arrival on Alpha Centauri

[solo]

SCG,

I have posted my log now, so could download and look at your game. I'm loving those city names and am antcipating some fun in reading your log, which is printing now.

Thanks for your tests on bribes.

Slow Thinker,

I am finding a lot of good stuff in that thread and do not know how I could have missed seeing it before.

I agree that a great SSC site is possible without settling on the "ideal spot".

Your games and approach seem quite similar to what SG(1) was up to in his game. Too bad about the barbs in the first one, but for you and others who are on additional attempts, please feel welcome to post logs and/or descriptions of these later, as I think they will be of interest to all, even if they do not "count".

ottok,

Please attach a save of the game where it cost 2130 gold to bribe a barb horseman! This is something I have to see.

2.42 is the version number of the latest patch for CivII. It can still be downloaded to bring your own version of the game up to date.

[La Fayette]

solo

I notice that I guessed right: 'solo certainly the only one able to land before 1300AD'.
Great!

I also notice that I was only 2 techs behind you in 1AD (with quite a different approach, including long stay in Monarchy and building Marco). This means that I might be able to improve my landing date noticeably (without dreaming of beating you, of course ) if I take care about what I do after 1AD.
That is what I am going to do, for training: replay from 1AD (hoping to beat 1750 )

[Bloody Monk]

Solo,

Congratulations on a great game!!

I have only read your logs up to AD time, as I am just there myself. I'm very tempted to read the rest of your log but I am going to finish first...to see how I do w/o the assist.

Here are a few thoughts:

1) Location, location, location...I like the way you sited your first seven cities, but mine are much more tightly spaced. I had the seventh by 1100bc, and with roads/rivers, the lines of communication are shorter. I was reluctant to overlap so much, but I think this works too.

2) Monarchy works fine...We have talked about this before. I don't like Republic so early in situations where whales and silk are scarce. The food/shield hit to little dirt-holes is profound and if trade specials don't give extra arrows, the weight is whithering. With Monarchy it is easier to carry settlers and get the roads down pronto. The payoff claimed for early Republic is faster research. but, as will be seen, Monarchy did not slow my advances, relative to your pace...yet.

3) Early diplomat exploration...I sent out a dip to explore eastward by 1700 and found the Chinese by 1150. I can't prove the game works this way, but my sense is that early contact is more likely to result in an alliance. I also established an Embassy. The Chinese allies have given 300g in response to my requests, and knowing their research-and nudging it some-has yeilded 6 advances by swap.

4) Sleaze to Freeze...As a result of packing my cities tightly, I sited Pompeii at (12,26) and stationed a warrior on the swamp just in front of it. This bottled up the Mongols as my sixth city in 1750. That made me supreme and I never let then stay long as "Uncooperative", so they haven't yet sneak attacked. They would not ally from the beginning even when "Worshipful", so I am not sure this can last. But so far, the basic bow and scrape approach is working. It helps that they are the key civ. It also helped to hold back on gifting the Mongols Monarchy until I could first give them Republic. That settled them down very much.

5) Research Path...I listed our choices side by side and even the order is very close. I have all on your list plus three more, two that are off-path for you (Monarchy and Pottery) and Astronomy. Pottery and Astro I got by swap and Astro I got too early. The Vikings offered Math when I met them and when I went back later to get it, Astro was on the list and I bonked. Should have left it until I was ready to build Cope's (that was 575bc) rather than carry it so long. You got 5 by swap; I got 11, including 6 from the Chin. I always make a note (when I visit an AI to gift tech, get maps, keep em happy,etc) of what is on offer so I can remember to go back at the right time to swap. I hope the extra carrying costs don't catch up with me later. I can't count on much more help from the AI research

6) Wonders...I agree with all you have said about NOT building the Gardens--but, in this case, I built the Gardens. It's funny because I had just written on another thread about not automatically building HG, especially in early landing attempts. I roamed a bit before placing Rome, and afterwards, and I did not the prospects. I built HG to get size 5 helpers (w/o Colosseums) to Xin up the research. I am toying with the idea of going off the reservation again by building Mike's Chapel instead of Colosseums everywhere. It will avoid the upkeep and get it done in one fell swoop. The cost is two extra techs (if someone does Poly for me it would look better), eight camels and time...time being the deciding factor. Still thinking that one through.

As it was, I finished ST the turn before you and Colossus in 1ad. And of course HG in 550, just before Republic.

7) You have done a much better job of founding your colonies and starting offshore trading. I am going to have to send extra settlers to join or the cities will never grow fast enough. I may have spent too much time on preping the local scene, and while this looks to be a good start, I doubt I will do nearly as well with the trading to come. I still don't get the subtle details of chosing colony sites, wildcards, triggers,etc.

I really appreciate the way you constructed your log and its extensive commentary. It is very helpful. Thanks.

Monk