Early Landing Comparison Game #1

[solo]

Slow Thinker,

There are ways of unblocking (removing the parentheses) around supply commodities, so that you can use the same ones over again for extra trades. There are a few examples in each of my "Going for..." threads. In the 500 AD thread, I show how you can do this by delivering commodities from one city to another. In my 1000 AD thread I give examples of how this can be done using food caravans.

Another thing to note is that it is not necessary to use food caravans when using caravans to help make wonders. Commodity caravans work just as well, and once they are added to the wonder, that commodity becomes unblocked again, immediately. I almost always build commodity caravans, so that I have the option to change my mind a little later, as I may not end up wanting to use one or more of these for the current wonder being built.

[SlowThinker]

SCG,
Is there another way how to unblock a commodity?
Is there any thread that covers this basic stuff and that I should read?

Edit: thank you solo. But I must say i always looked suspiciously at people that can read thoughts.

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
I am very sorry, but the loss is rounded down.

ST
I meant the shields are rounded up
5 shields in ... switch - then 3 shields are left.

I thought the word food related to a freight. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Perhaps you could PM me the answer to the question below as I don't want to distract the discussion about the topic in hand.

Am I right in thinking you have never completed a landing on AC? If so ...why? You obviously know much about the game in a theoretical way.

-----------------------

SG(2)

[solo]

(Since others may be interested, too, I'll repeat my info on unblocking in this thread, so it is easier to find)
The zip attached to this save contains 7 saves made from the 456 AD game played without tipping huts. Two of them, named “wonder” and “food” will be used to illustrate unblocking techniques using food freights. The others are saves at various stages of the game for those interested in taking a look. Included are 4000 BC, 500 BC, 1 AD, 500 AD, and 920 AD, the turn of the launch.

How to use “wonder bread”

If you load up the save named wonder and take a look at Boston’s city display, you’ll see:

Supplies: (dye), (silver), (cloth)
Demands: Uranium, (coal), copper
Karakorum oil: +35t
Karakorum cloth: +35t
Rome silver: +21t

You can see that all three supply commodities are blocked. Now if you go back outside and look at St. Louis, you’ll notice it’s building a wonder, accumulating shields towards the construction of the Apollo Program later. Now take Boston’s food freight and add it to the wonder being built. Then recheck Boston’s display. No changes. Hmm! Wonder bread didn’t work!

The reason it did not work was because dye can not be re-supplied until Boston’s dye freight next to Hastings is delivered. Now reload the wonder save and deliver Boston’s dye freight to Hastings first. Now check Boston’s display. No changes, and the reason this delivery did not create a new trade route to replace one of the existing ones to Karakorum or Rome, is because both of these cities are size 8, and have most of their workers earning trade arrows, giving them more base trade than Hastings. Although delivered, dye did not replace any of the existing routes and went into what you might call a state of “limbo”.

Well, to release dye from this purgatory, the wonder bread ploy must be used, so try it now, by adding Boston’s food freight to the wonder being built in St. Louis. Now check Boston’s display and you’ll see it has changed, with dye now in supply.

Supplies: dye, (silver), (cloth)
Demands: Uranium, (coal), copper
Karakorum oil: +35t
Karakorum cloth: +35t
Rome silver: +21t

After this new supply of dye is built and delivered, Boston can produce another food freight to keep this re-supply of dye going indefinitely, which is what I ended up doing during my game.

Without the wonder bread ploy, my only option would have been to sit and hope something changed on the next cycle turn, but these turns are few and far between. It’s no good having all that trade potential and not being able to put it to constant use.

Now you may ask what about silver and cloth. Why doesn’t wonder bread unblock either of these two? The reason is because they did not go into “limbo” when they were delivered. Cloth went to Karakorum and the silver went to Rome. To unblock either of these two, a trade would have to be made to a city with more base trade than one of these two, causing one of these trade routes to be replaced. I didn’t want to do this, because demand for dye was widespread. I also wanted to retain the lucrative Karakorum rail bonuses.


How to use regular food deliveries

Now load the save named food and take a look inside San Francisco, one of the two colonies. It’s display should be:

Supplies: (silk), (copper), (salt)
Demands: uranium, wool, wine
Boston copper: +9t
Buffalo silk: +1t
Boston salt: +9t

Now if you take San Francisco’s food freight and deliver it to Boston, you’ll notice that the only change to Boston’s display was the increase in food, which is good, because we don’t want to disrupt any of its trade routes. Now check San Francisco, and you’ll see the following changes:

Supplies: silk, (copper), (salt)
Demands: uranium, wool, wine
Boston copper: +9t
Boston Food Supplies: -1f
Boston salt: +9t

Notice that this trade replaced the Buffalo trade route, causing a re-supply of silk. This is a good thing, but in this game I was more interested in getting a re-supply of copper, since copper was in demand in my SSC, and I could get more gold from a copper trade. I would rather replace the Boston copper route if I could with the new food route.

This can be done by temporarily reducing Boston’s base trade until it is lower than Buffalo’s. You can do this by making all Boston city workers into entertainers. Try reloading this save and do this before delivering the food freight from San Francisco to Boston. After the food is delivered the display will change to:

Supplies: (silk), copper, (salt)
Demands: uranium, wool, wine
Boston Food Supplies: -1f
Buffalo silk: +1t
Boston salt: +1t

Since the base trade in Buffalo was higher than Boston’s, the Boston copper route was replaced, instead. Now San Francisco can produce and deliver another copper freight to Boston, which is what I wanted to do in this game.

Now reload the save again and make all of Boston’s workers into entertainers. Instead of delivering the food to Boston, deliver it to another city instead. The result is the same, copper has been re-supplied. The food can be delivered to any city. What matters is which of San Francisco’s trade routes it replaces.

Now reload and fix up Boston’s workers again to reduce its base trade. Use San Francisco’s food freight to help build the wonder in St. Louis, in attempt to use it like wonder bread. When you check back in San Francisco, you’ll see that this did not work, and all supplies are still blocked. The reason is because none of the blocked supplies were in “limbo”. Get the difference?

So when dealing with food and re-supply it’s a good idea to:

1. First, deliver what you want re-supplied before making any attempts to unblock it.

2. Use wonder bread to unblock commodities that went into limbo when delivered.

3. Use food deliveries to unblock visible trade route commodities.

If used correctly, using food to re-supply commodities should always work. The only problem is that you have to take the extra time to build the food, and that you may end up wasting a valuable caravan or freight if its food can not be put to good use.

[solo]

The main key to success in this part of a game is the ability to build and trade SSC commodities every turn. The attached zip file contains 4 saves made during this part of the game. The saves provide a few good examples, and might make it easier for those who are interested, to follow and verify how trades can be used to manipulate SSC supplies advantageously.

First, I’ll review a few basics for those who might not be aware of them. When a city (source) delivers a caravan or freight to another city (destination) already having three trade routes, one of the old routes in the destination city’s display will be replaced by the source city’s route if the source city’s base trade exceeds that of one of the three cities appearing among the routes. The first trade route city is checked first, and so on down the list, to see if a swap can be made. If the base trade of the source city is not high enough, none of the three existing routes will be changed. (The base trade of any city is determined by subtracting the number of trade arrows generated by its trade routes from its total number of trade arrows.)

Now for some specific examples: If you load resupply and take a look inside Chicago, you will see:

Supplies: (gold), (oil), (beads)
Demands: (oil), spice, silk
Paris beads: +18t
Veii gems: +18t
Rome Copper: +19t

All supplies are currently blocked. The beads delivered to Paris earlier in the turn have replaced the first trade route. This delivery enabled the re-supply of beads, but a triggering event is needed to make this happen. If you deliver the Atlanta beads freight to Chicago, the display will change as follows:

Supplies: (gold), (oil), beads
Demands: oil, spice, silk
Atlanta oil: +9t or Atlanta gold: +9t
Veii gems: +18t
Rome copper: +19t

Since the Paris beads route was replaced after Atlanta’s delivery, beads was unblocked and can be built in Chicago the following turn. I think most players are aware of this basic unblocking technique. Whether gold or oil are assigned to the Atlanta route is determined by random, and if you reload resupply and repeat this delivery a few times, you will see this is true. Also note that this delivery unblocked the demand for oil in Chicago and this often happens when an undemanded commodity is delivered. The only negative aspect of this particular trade is that it only brought in 68 gold.

Now save the game. If the silk freight, north of Chicago, is delivered next, no changes will occur in the display, and note that even though silk was in demand, the delivery did not block Chicago’s demand for silk. The reason for this is that the base trade in Detroit was only 6 trade arrows when the delivery was made, which was too small to allow Detroit to replace any of the existing routes. The important thing to notice and remember about this trade is that Detroit’s delivery did not block Chicago’s demand for silk.

Now reload the save just made and go into Detroit. You’ll see that you can increase Detroit’s base trade from only 6 arrows up to 27 arrows by moving workers onto tiles having the best trade. After doing this, deliver the silk freight to Chicago. The result is:

Supplies: (gold), (oil), (beads)
Demands: oil, spice, (silk)
Detroit beads: +10t
Veii gems: +18t
Rome copper: +19t

Now Detroit’s base trade was higher than Atlanta, allowing Detroit’s route to replace Atlanta’s. Although this trade brought in a little more gold, it blocked the demand for silk and also re-blocked the supply for beads. This is a good example of what not to do, and of how the replacement of routes can act as a blocking mechanism.

Now reload the temporary save a few more times, but before delivering the silk to Chicago, sell off the superhighways in Detroit just to see how much less gold the trade will bring. Finally, do this again, but sell off the superhighways in Detroit and Chicago before delivering silk, and you’ll see another substantial drop in revenue. Now you know why I like having superhighways everywhere.

Now, reload the original save, named resupply. I’ll insert the original display of Chicago again, so you don’t have to scroll up:

Supplies: (gold), (oil), (beads)
Demands: (oil), spice, silk
Paris beads: +18t
Veii gems: +18t
Rome Copper: +19t

Before making any trades, go into Detroit and set its workers so that they generate enough trade to replace the Paris route. (More than 10 arrows will do, since this is the likely amount of base trade in Paris. Paris probably has 2 arrows each, for the 5 workers on roads, and no more for the two working its mines, making a total of 10.)

Now save the game, and afterwards, skip over Atlanta’s freight and deliver the silk freight from Detroit to Chicago first. There are three possible results of this trade:

Supplies: (gold), (oil), beads
Demands: oil, spice, (silk)
Detroit oil: +10t or Detroit gold: +10t
Veii gems: +18t
Rome Copper: +19t

Or

Supplies: (gold), (oil), (beads)
Demands: oil, spice, (silk)
Detroit beads: +10t
Veii gems: +18t
Rome Copper: +19t

Whether gold, oil or beads are assigned to Detroit when its new route was created is determined by chance, and if you reload and re-deliver this silk freight enough times, you will eventually get all three results above. Notice that there is a 66% chance of unblocking beads by making this trade, and also note that it always blocks Chicago’s demand for silk. If you had another silk caravan coming into Chicago, you could unblock the demand in Chicago for silk now by delivering Atlanta’s freight. Go ahead and try this now, if you want to see. Furthermore, if beads had been assigned to Detroit after making its silk delivery, the subsequent delivery of Atlanta’s freight would have also unblocked Chicago’s supply of beads. This can be seen by loading the save named blocked and delivering Atlanta’s freight. The displays before and after this trade will be:

Supplies: (gold), (oil), (beads)
Demands: oil, spice, (silk)
Detroit beads: +10t
Veii gems: +18t
Rome Copper: +19t

Supplies: (gold), (oil), beads
Demands: oil, spice, silk
Atlanta oil: +9t
Veii gems: +18t
Rome Copper: +19t

The delivery of undemanded beads from Atlanta unblocked the supply for beads and unblocked the demand for silk in Chicago.

In my actual game, I wanted the big payoff for delivering demanded silk and also wanted to unblock the supply of beads in Chicago, so I traded the Detroit freight first, since the odds were in my favor this trade would unblock the supply of beads. It did, but had I been unlucky, I had the Atlanta freight standing by just in case, to deliver afterwards, just to make sure beads became available for Chicago’s next build. Had I another silk caravan coming into Chicago the following turn, I could have created demand for it by delivering Atlanta’s freight, too.

For the next example, load the save named tricky, and inspect Chicago. Its display should be:

Supplies: (gold), (oil), (beads)
Demands: uranium, spice, (coal)
St. Louis oil: +11t
Veii gems: +18t
Rome copper: 19t

Now deliver the oil freight from Detroit. You will see that only one change occurred in the display. The Veii trade route was replaced by a new Detroit one:

Detroit gold: + 11t or Detroit beads: +11t

has taken the place of Veii gems: +18t

Also note that since gems does not appear on the supply list it can not become unblocked or become available for the next build in Chicago. The reason Detroit replaced the Veii route was because Detroit had more base trade than Veii, but could not surpass the base trade of St. Louis. However, if we could get Detroit to replace St. Louis instead, this would unblock Chicago’s supply of oil, which is what we would rather do.

Since Detroit’s base trade is as high as we can make it, we can work it the other way instead, by reducing the base trade in St. Louis temporarily, by making its wine worker into an entertainer. Doing this will reduce the base trade in St. Louis to 24 (50 – 26) from its original value of 33 (62 – 29). Since Detroit’s base trade is 33 (44 – 11), and it now exceeds that of St. Louis, the same delivery will result in:

Supplies: (gold), oil, (beads)
Demands: uranium, spice, (coal)
Detroit beads: +11t or Detroit gold: +11t
Veii gems: +18t
Rome copper: +19t

Since the oil delivered by Detroit was not in demand in Chicago, oil could not be assigned to Detroit’s route. This meant Chicago’s supply of oil was sure to become unblocked by this trade, as long as Detroit replaced St. Louis’s route. No harm was done to St. Louis, since its worker could be put back onto the wine after the delivery was made. Of course, one shouldn’t forget to do this. The only downside of this trade was that there was no demand bonus for making this oil delivery, but superhighways still ensured a decent payoff. The main purpose of the trade was accomplished, by providing Chicago with a fresh supply of oil.

Now if you load the final save, named goose, an example will be given of how to get an AI city to become like that proverbial goose that lays golden eggs. In an earlier post, Orleans had been identified as a city having gold as a wildcard, and this was revealed and verified earlier in the game after a silver delivery to that city.

In this save, the first gold freight from Chicago has arrived next Orleans, so go ahead and deliver it. Afterwards, you can see that Orleans still demands gold, and that it also desires beads now, another commodity Chicago supplies. Although Orleans is puny, and has minimal trade itself, its location, distance and demand choices are enough to give the SSC maximum payoffs whenever deliveries are made. Icing on the cake is the fact that Orleans is easy to access, so that these profitable deliveries can be made quickly, too.

By now you may have noticed that other gold freight from Philadelphia parked next to Paris. If you go ahead and deliver this to Orleans, our golden goose, you will have cooked your own by blocking the Orleans’ demand for gold. Hmmm. How come one trade blocks gold demand and the other made to the same city didn’t? It’s not a matter of trading order, for if you reload goose and deliver the gold from Philadelphia first, you will block the demand immediately, and this time you will be even worse off, since the gold standing by from Chicago is no longer wanted anywhere.

The answer is found by looking at Chicago. Reload goose again and deliver Chicago's gold to Orleans, and then look inside Chicago. Orleans did not appear as a new trade route, and the reason for this is because its base trade is so puny that it hasn’t a chance of replacing any of the other cities making up the 3 routes. After a trade, the destination city must appear among the source city’s trade routes in order to block its demand for the commodity being delivered. Now if you deliver Philadelphia’s gold, you will notice that Orleans appears as a new route for that city, causing the demand in Orleans for gold to become blocked.

This can all be verified by conducting the following experiment. Reload goose again, and check Chicago’s display:

Supplies: (gold), (oil), (beads)
Demands: uranium, spice, (coal)
St. Louis beads: +11t
Veii gems: +18t
Rome copper: +19t

Since St. Louis appears on the first trade route, go into that city and make all of its workers into entertainers, to make its base trade as low as possible. Now deliver the gold from Chicago to Orleans and you’ll see that the demand for gold in Orleans has been blocked. Checking back with Chicago’s display, you’ll see that a new route with Orleans has been created, replacing the St. Louis one.

Now it should be obvious, that as long as you do not mess up demand in Orleans by making deliveries from other cities, it will keep demanding as much gold and beads that Chicago is able to deliver. Orleans’ base trade is so small, it will never be able to replace other cities making up Chicago’s trade routes. So if I knew this, why is the Philadelphia gold sitting next to Paris? For the moment, it ensures that the adjacent coal freight can reach Paris on the next turn, and not be blocked by a coy AI move of its phalanx onto the same RR tile. After I am sure my last gold freight from Chicago has been delivered to Orleans, I can finally cash in the Philadelphia gold, too, near the end of the game.

In the example where St. Louis’s base trade was minimized, astute observers may wonder why the gold delivery from Chicago did not unblock beads on its supply list. After all, Orleans supplanted the St. Louis trade route. The reason is that there is still a Chicago beads freight on the map that has not been delivered yet.

If you reload goose, deliver Chicago’s gold to Orleans and then space Philadelphia’s freight to end its turn, you’ll see that a beads from Chicago is waiting to be delivered to Buffalo. Making this delivery will free up a new supply of gold in Chicago. A new route for Buffalo appears in Chicago, taking place of the one previously held by Veii. Gold will also be re-supplied in Chicago, if you lower St. Louis’s base trade enough to have Buffalo replace its route instead. The reason gold was re-supplied is because when Chicago delivered gold to Orleans, a new trade route tied to gold was not created to replace one of Chicago’s 3 routes. It’s Orleans’ lack of base trade that makes such favorable manipulations possible.

I think this is enough for now, but there are other techniques, such as the use of my “wonder bread” trick, which is described in Samson’s thread on new trade strategies. There is almost always some way to unblock commodity supply and demand, once trade route dynamics are understood.

[Scouse Gits]

solo ... very useful to have this unblocking advice here. I found your examples about commodity manipulation excellent.

I have nearly finished my game and have been playing around with freight deliveries during the long years travelling to AC.

When you and samson did all that analysis on trade commodites did you ever discover the conditions prompting a Uranium supply? I didn't have any supplied at all.

--------------------

SG(2)

[solo]

SG(2),

Uranium supply is determined as follows:

supply = (desert+tundra+glacier+1) x (mountains+1) x (hills+rivers+1)

It is enabled by Nuclear Fission, and is reduced for city sizes below 27, for example, by 5/6 at city sizes 23-27, etc.

In early landing games, this usually limits potential suppliers to an SSC that has a lot of the types of terrain featured in the formula, above. Even with these terrain types in the city radius, it is still more likely that other commodities will have higher supply quotients, knocking uranium off the list, anyways.

In contrast, uranium's demand quotient is very large and most cities want it once Nuclear Fission is discovered, which is too bad, since this masks demand for other commodities that are in supply. This is why I always wait a long time before trading away Nuclear Fission to the AI.

Oil is almost as good as uranium far as demand bonuses go, and is the better bet for planning high payoffs, since supply and demand of oil is usually plentiful.

[Smash]

You play a game with which I am not familiar

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by solo
Early landing comparison game #1

Now that I have a tech lead, that is all that is needed to keep the AI peaceful, and diplomats can be built, when needed, to deal with barbarian appearances. All cities will be without defense until a space ship is launched, later.

In my attempt, I was keeping all the other civs on my side by giving them techs, but as soon as I started building the space ship (in the 20th century ) the Mongols put in a sneak attack and captured Neapolis.

They had been worshipful (and exchanged maps) a turn or two earlier.

Perhaps you could offer a master class in diplomacy - along the lines of your trade unblocking class.

RJM at Sleepers

[rjmatsleepers]

Well I landed (in 1942, but at least I landed).

I had the benefit of two previous abortive starts and a couple of logs. As a result I went straight for republic on this attempt rather than go through monarchy. My impression is that this works well. My position in AD1 was pretty average (for me). I lost my way a little getting to AD1000 and then lost it big time after that. Partly I was thrashing around without keeping my eye on a specific objective and partly distracted by war with the Mongols.

Trading was not good. I only made 2 deliveries from my SSC. That's an area where i need to improve a lot.

I hope I've attached the save from 1941.

I don't think there is much to learn from my many mistakes, so here is a much abbreviated log.

3950 BC Rome (18, 21) founded
3850 BC Veii founded (22,18
2800 BC Antium founded (27,19)
1950 BC Cumae (9,15) and Neapolis (17,21) founded.
1900 BC Mongols walk into Cumae
1500 BC Begin revolution to republic.
625 BC Pisae (25, 13) and Ravenna (13,15) founded.
AD 1 Rome builds temple and switches to hanging garden. 4 caravan provide all required shields. I have 16 techs (4 white) and 1st in population. Advances are every 6 turns. Feels like an average minus start. I'd hope (expect?) to land before 1900.
AD 800 Rome builds harbour and switches to Copernicus observatory. 6 caravans delivered to complete it.
AD 1000 24 techs, 10 white 1.26m pop (1st), but at war with Mongols.
AD 1540 Deliver copper from Veii to Tsingtao for 76 gold - enough to complete colluseum in Rome just as 8th caravan arrives.
AD 1550 Complete colluseum in Rome and switch to Newton's college. Deliver 8 caravans to complete it.
AD 1690 Population now exceeeds 2m. Subvert barbarian city of Hispalis (lost to them ages ago) for 52
AD 1780 Democracy. Rome celebrates by celebrating, but Pompeii not keen until it's caravel reaches home (and disbands), then it also celebrates!.
AD 1786 Celebration ends in Rome at size 20.
AD 1855 Pliny makes us the second most advanced civilisation after the Chinese
AD 1866 Notice that while celebrating, one of Rome's tiles had been taken. Send out diplomat who subverts Zulu city
AD 1899 Discover space flight. Begin researching plastics. Give out knowledge right, left and centre to bring everyone to enthusiastic.
AD 1909 Discover fusion power.
AD 1927 launch (first to launch 15-3-3-1-1-1). arrival 1942

After I started building the space ship, there were 2 separate sneak attacks by the Mongols, each of which cost me a city. After the ship was launched there were sneak attacks by Chinese, Zulus and Mongols (who took another city between the save and the landing). But I landed first in 1942!

I look forward to the next one!

RJM at Sleepers

[Scouse Gits]

Alpha Centauri 1599

This attempt was largely based upon solo's method of achieving early landings tailored to suit my style of play. Whilst I like playing early Republic, I don't like premature Republic. The early years see crippling shield support, greedy settlers and a nanny Senate vetoing tribute demands. Prior to getting the caravans rolling I feel more comfortable in Monarchy … probably one of the many reasons why I'm in space over 300 years after solo.

My other deviation from the script was building Darwin's Voyage. The tremendous benefits of Railroad are spoilt by its trading penalty. I prefer to leave the Railroad Gap quickly heading for The Corporation to restore trading bonuses, which hopefully propel fast progress towards Automobile.

The full log will be posted below but here are the headlines of significant events.

Governments
Revolutions to:
Monarchy in 2250BC
Republic in 225BC
Democracy in 380AD
Communism in 1571AD

Wonders
Shakespeare's Theatre in 400BC
Colossus in 275BC
Copernicus' Observatory in 280AD
Isaac Newton's College in 560AD
Darwin's Voyage in 800AD
Apollo Program in 1500AD
Plus others captured or built after launching.

Events
Rome 8 in 250BC
Rome 12 in 1AD
Rome 21 in 240AD

Trade in 825BC (1st Trade Route in 575BC)
Railroad in 780AD
Industrialisation in 800AD
Automobile in 1040AD
Computers in 1260AD
Flight in 1360AD
Space Flight in 1480 AD

Conclusions
Although the absence of huts was hard to begin with it almost made the game simpler. Greater control of research was welcomed without unwanted Warrior Code, Polytheism or angry barbs killing explorers on their quests to find new neighbours. Control of Trade was the big bonus … frequent use was made of the Bread Wonder routine. However, as can be seen from the main log trading bonuses were generally abysmal, as my selection of colony spots was very poor. Never did I once feel two advances a turn would be remotely possible. A natural trading partner should have been the Aztecs (allies from whom I received nothing) but they lost their capital early on to the Barbs, whilst their plight was worsened by a long and wasteful war with the Vikings, which stunted growth in their miserable cities. The only thing, which kept my science alive, was Rome. Before losing the power of the Colossus it was capable of pumping out 1288 beakers @ 90% research.

Thank you solo for setting up the game and for sharing your expertise with everyone. I hope to do better in the next one. I have a cunning plan…

---------------------------

SG(2)

[rjmatsleepers]

I'll try to attach my 1941 save.

RJM at Sleepers

[Scouse Gits]

Main Log - Part One

Playing in 2.42

BC Years
4000
Curbs reflex reaction to tip hut
3950
In a normal game I would try to have the benefit of some NON units - but in this one it seems sensible to found Rome (18,12) the hut automatically disappears as the workers in the capital fall on the hut tile. Another wine comes into view with the hint of a second river.
3900
Ceremonial Burial chosen for first reseach.
3850
Veii (18,18) founded on the river SW of Rome. Techs @ 4 Turns.
3700
Ceremonial Burial As I well know the choices are only Alphabet or Horseback Riding. Choose Horse as the non Monarchy advance for Barb protection and exploring. Rome builds warrior who starts exploring. Techs @ 8.
3400
Tough decisions! At the expense of Rome's (now size 2) growth have put its workers on both wine specials for the extra trade. Techs @ 4.
3350
Horseback Riding -> Alphabet, Techs @ 6.
3100
Alphabet -> Code of Laws Techs @ 8.
2850
Veii builds settler just as Mongol chariot pulls into town! OK we give secret of CB and get peace. Well they are the purple civ
2750
Antium founded on rivered Buffalo (16,22). Techs @ 7
2700
Code of Laws -> Monarchy, Techs @ 9.
2500
Antium builds Warrior... who goes on a little exploration.
2350
Veii builds Settler.
2300
Cumae founded on river (21,19)
Monarchy
Revolution The next advance is a problem ... one of those turns when everything is on offer. In the end pick Map Making. Temple rush finished in Rome ... now the fish are being worked to put some growth into the capital but Veii can work one of the wine hills. Techs @ 7.
2200
Rome builds Temple.
2150
Swap with Mongols for The Wheel ... that vital third line in the incremental jigsaw. Also give them Code + Monarchy. Techs still @ 7.
2000
Antium builds Settler.
1900
Map Making I had hoped that Bronze Working may have been exchanged with one of the AI, but it has now been selected towards acquiring Trade. Techs @ 9
1750
Antium builds Horse to explore. On the its first trip horsie finds Samarkand - Mongols offer to swap Warrior Code (declined) but cough up 50g tribute
1700
Rome now size 3 and works two wine and fish. Techs @ 8.
1650
Rome builds Trireme which reveals the last special as Fish.
1500
Island revealed to north of Rome.
1450
Bronze Working -> Currency Techs @ 9
1300
Neapolis founded on Island north of Rome @ 16,8. It was a hard decision where to found this city but the wooded location was chosen to boost the empire's shield output. Working the Whale the tech = 8
1250
Pompeii founded at 27,19. Techs @ 7.
1200
Techs @ 6 by working more ocean tiles.
1150
Worry Mongols and receive 25g tribute.
1100
Currency -> Trade Techs @ 8. At last one of Rome's mines completed.
1050
Pisae-Straybow founded at 13,15 ... yes it's a canal city Techs @ 7 Give Mongols Map Making.
900
Meet Chinese who have lots of goodies. Swap for Writing and Mysticism/Maps. Don't want to exchange for too much otherwise trade is delayed. Now techs @ 9. Barb Trireme spotted off Neapolis.
875
Two Barb Archers unload but no King Both removed.
850
Give Mongols Mysticism.
825
Trade -> Literacy; Rome now size 4 completes Library. Techs @ 8. Give Mongols Currency.
800 Two settlers complete Rome's other mine. Give Mongols Writing. Ravenna (28,26) founded ... yes the first unhappy in the ninth city but the tech rate is now at 7. Another city Hispalis (14,26) founded to act as a block to the Mongol's attempted expansion eastwards.
750
Give Mongols Trade. Settler joins Rome now size 5.
725
Techs @ 6
650
Literacy - > Philosophy Wool Rome-Neapolis 48g. Tribute of 25g from Mongols. Techs still @ 6.
600
Give Mongols Trade.
575
Hides to Rome 28g. Swap Masonry with Chinese and receive 75g Tribute. Settler joins Rome - now size 6
550
Philosophy & Medicine -> Construction. Techs @ 8.
525
Tribute from Chinese 150g
500
Give Chinese The Wheel.
400
Shakespeare's Theatre in Rome, Sell Temple, Settler joins city now size 7 - English destroyed by Zulus. 50g Tribute from Chinese.
375
Give Chinese Medicine. Meet Aztecs. They are in a bad way with no techs to swap and their former capital flying a red flag! Give away an encarta of science for Maps and Alliance.
350
Construction -> Republic, Cloth to Rome 50g; Tribute from Mongols 50g. Techs @ 8.
325
Give Chinese Construction. Give Mongols some recent advances to avoid any research penalty. Techs @ 7.
300
50g tribute from Mongols.
275
Colossus in Rome Techs @ 6.Give Chinese Philosophy.
250
Settler joins Rome now Size 8; 25g from Mongols. 50g from Chinese.
225
Republic -> Pottery;
Revolution to that government. Hides to Rome 68g. Swap Pottery with the Chinese. Give Republic to Mongols.
200
Researching Seafaring. Give Aztecs Republic who are not good allies as they've not coughed up a single denarius Techs @ 6. Program of Temple building begins.
175
Rome = 9 though without a Harbour food is in short supply. Give Aztecs Construction.
150
Rome 10 and out of food! Swap the new Chinese develop of Engineering for Horse. I don't really want to slow down Seafaring but if they start KRC they'll never part with it. Coal/Hides to Rome 74/40g.
Techs @ 5 but this is being reduced for some gold. In any event Seafaring is more than one turn away. Techs @ 8
125
Techs @ 7
100
Seafaring -> Sanitation Techs @ 8: Rome = 11. Meet Carthaginians swap Mathematics give tech and obtain maps.
50
Gems to Samarkand 192g;
25
Note that the Mongols have formed a Republic

------------------

SG(2)

[Scouse Gits]

Main Log Part Two

AD YEARS
1
Push science up to 6 turns. Harbour built in Rome now size 12. Give Mongols Seafaring ... I'll have their explorers crawling all over my cornfields next ...
20
Sanitation -> Astronomy; Advances have been temporarily sacrificed for some gold.
60
Zulus build HG; Chinese start Leo's
80
Rome builds Sewer System - Size 13. Techs now at 5
100
Gold to Samarkand 126g, Rome = 14
120
Coal to Samarkand 64g. Gems to Rome 58g. Rome =15
140
Astronomy -> Banking, Techs @ 5; Mongols sneak attack! Horse killed. All aggressive units which can be seen are eliminated. Rome = 16
160
Rome = 17
Problems ... Badly need Bridge Building, but avoiding Warrior Code thus far means that Iron Working (a science usually obtained from the AI) is not available.
180
Rome = 18, Silver to Rome 124g, Kill Mongol Chariot;
Science decreased for some money to buy caravans for Cope's and for celebrations.
200
Most cities celebrating ... Rome = 19
220
Rome = 20
Invention from Chinese...never thought they would exchange techs as they are building Leo's !
240
Rome = 21; end celebrations. Meet Vikings, swap for Iron Working and maps.
280
Banking -> Democracy
Copernicus' Observatory Techs @ 3
300
Peace with Mongols who were briefly Worshipful after receiving two techs. (Difficult to give them away whilst at War). Give some techs away all round in the hope somebody researches something useful.
320
Coal to Karakorum 96g.
340
Democracy -> University Techs @ 3. Give Mongols enough tech to avoid research penalty and Democracy in the hope... Hides to Rome 31g.
360
Coal to Rome 35g
380
Revolution to Democracy - Techs @ 3.
400
Maps and gift to Aztecs
420
University ->Bridge Building - Techs @ 3
440
Mongols now a Democracy Salt to Karakorum 96g. Dye to Rome 31g - Techs @ 2
460
Bridge Building at last -> Theory of Gravity - Science down need gold...Techs @ 10
480
Still need gold ... settlers roading rivers attempting to get the road bonuses with Mongols.
500
Rome builds Bank which awakens celebrations. Techs @ 2
520
Rome = 22; Techs @ 3
540
Theory of Gravity -> Chemistry; Road bonus between Rome and two Mongol cities in place
560
Isaac Newton's College
580
Chemistry -> Gunpowder. Give Mongols Chemistry. Give Chinese Astronomy in the hope they research Navigation. Can't get 1tech a turn yet, but the average is 2
600
Cloth/Hides to Rome 130/60g, Give Mongols Bridge Building and techs/maps - Carthaginians
620
Gunpowder -> Economics, mini round of celebrations now a decent science rate can be sustained at a lower a level. Lux = 30%, Harbour being constructed in some cities.
Salt to Rome 38g, Give Mongols Mathematics ... they really want Gunpowder.
640
Give Chinese Democracy. Some white goods completed. Looks like Karakorum is ready for a Barb attack
660
Economics -> Navigation. Techs @ 2.
680
Wine to Samarkand 83g
700
Navigation -> Physics, Mongols develop Feudalism Barbs land near Pompeii
With 90% Science, 10% Lux + some Xinning Tech a Turn
720
Physics -> Steam Engine. Give, Mongols Navigation. Spice to Rome 147g.
740
Steam Engine -> Railroad, Techs @ 2. Give Mongols Gunpowder
760
Map/Tech to Mongols
780
Railroad -> Industrialisation, Barb King 150g Rome = 23
Viroco-Darwin founded at 22,16 - always meant to have a city around here !
800
Darwin's Voyage in Viroco-Darwin
Industrialisation & Magnetism -> Corporation; Techs @ 2. Give Mongols Railroad & Industrialisation
Wine to Samarkand 40g.
820
Corporation -> Explosives ... some Xinning and science @ 90% just gives a 1 turn advance.
Library built at Veii now benefiting from the railway connection with Rome.
840
Explosives -> Refining; Copper to Rome 22g, Coal to Samarkand 56g
860
Wine to Rome 72g
880
Refining -> Metallurgy (Zulus start Great Wall )
Silk to Samarkand 180g; Silver to Rome 49g
900
Silver to Samarkand 90g
920
Metallurgy -> Electricity
940
Silk to Rome 26g
960
Electricity -> Combustion
980
Transport with freights and dip sets sail for the Aztec continent
1000
Combustion -> Steel; Wool/Silk to Tenochtitlan (Barbarian) 484/90g Buy Barb Musk. Dye to Rome 74g
1020
Steel -> Automobile; Hides to Teotihuacan 120g; Coal to Pompeii 40g; Wine to Karakorum 165g
1040
Automobile -> Electronics
1060
Superhighways in Rome & Veii
Bread Caravan trick to free up Rome's supply side. Dye to Samarkand 55g
1080
Electronics -> Mass Production; Oil to Tenochtitlan 129g. Superhighways in Antium.
1100
Mass Production -> Conscription; Just as my dip around Barb Tenochtitlan was closing in on a Musk a Mongol Frigate goes and shoots it! Salt to Rome 46g; Hides/Dye to Teotihuacan 120/99g. Bribe the Barb city of Tenochtitlan for 346g. I had hoped it it might have been founded in 4000BC (1 turn before Rome) so allowing for beaker overflow city after the SSC. Alas it appears second in the build queue ):
1120
Conscription -> Atomic Theory; Wool to Teotihuacan 864g Swap with Mongols for Feudalism
Bread Wonder trick again (Building "Magellan's" - Apollo really in Viroco-Darwin)
1140
Atomic Theory -> Chivalry; Library in Antium; Salt to Tlatelolco 112g
1160
Chivalry -> Leadership; Wool to Teotihuacan 864g
1180
Leadership -> Tactics; Oil to Rome 49g; Wool to Teotihuacan 112g;
1200
Tactics -> Machine Tools; Wool to Teotihuacan 864g;
1220
Machine Tools -> Warrior Code - Swap with Chinese for it Bread Wonder Trick. Silk/Gems/Gold to Teotihuacan 192/64/108g. Give Mongols Tactics
-> Miniaturisation
1240
Miniaturisation -> Computers; Wool to Teotihuacan 864g;
1260
Computers -> Mobile Warfare; Bribe Chinese freight for 147 blocking the railway! Gold to Rome 255g, Salt/Beads to Teotihuacan 72/62g. Give Mongols Machine Tools,
1280
Mobile Warfare -> Nuclear Fission;
Rome builds research Lab; Give Automobile to Mongols
1300
Nuclear Fission -> Nuclear Power; Wool to Teotihuacan 60g
1320
Nuclear Power -> Laser; Gold x 2 to Teotihuacan 135/50g (Wonder Bread Trick: seems to work when the commodity freight put in first then supply is cleared when wonder van depatched)
1340
The Laser -> Flight; Wool to Tenochtitlan 510g; Give Mongols Nuclear Fission - remembers (ex British Prime Minister) Jim Callaghan's quote "The sky is black with chickens coming home to roost"
1360
Flight -> Polytheism - Oil to Rome 458g; Cloth/Salt/Oil to Teotihuacan 50/43/90g; Swap Polytheism with Chinese. -> Radio
1380
Radio -> Advanced Flight; Wool to Tenochtitlan 276g Silk to128g Teotihuacan, Superhighways in Tenochtitlan.
1400
Advanced Flight -> Rocketry; Silk to Samarkand 294g, Salt to Teotihuacan 48g; Oil to Neapolis 104g
1420
Rocketry -> Robotics (Space Flight not offered); Dyel to Teotihuacan 156g, Wool to Tenochtitlan 386g.
1440
Robotics -> Space Flight; Freight to Tenochtitlan; Wine 63/66/82/87/49g
1460
Unable to sustain the 1 tech per turn with poor freight returns. Wool/Salt to Tenochtitlan 392/69g; Give Mongols Advanced Flight.
1480
Space Flight -> Plastics; Dye to Tenochtitlan 164g Oil/Salt/Gems to Tenochtitlan 92/63/56g
1500
Plastics -> Superconductor; Apollo Program Give Mongols Radio, Wool to Tenochtitlan 376g
Begin Spaceship construction.
1510
Wool to Tenochtitlan 376g; A large Barb uprising to the east (Artillery/Riflemen) means diverting resources quelling rebellion!
1520
Superconductor Fusion Power not offered so -> Monotheism Spaceship parts start to be completed. Frantic selling of improvements to finance the spaceship.
1530
Mongols develop Communism swapped for Rocketry
1540
Build an empire - sell an empire! Spaceships are expensive and I've messed this one up!
1550
Give Mongols Leadership
1560
Launch 15-3-2-1-1-1 Estimated to land in 1599 ... just in the Sixteenth Century
1570
Revolution 100g from Chinese in Tribute.
1571
Comrade Caesar forms a Politburo
1572
Rome rebuilds Superhighways
1573
Rome builds Airport
1576
Mongols revert to Republic; Oil to Rome 144g
1578
Sneak Attack by Mongols
Samarkand captured 557g plundered
1580
Karakorum captured 825g plundered Amphibious Warfare taken. Bokhara bribed for 938g - 289g plundered - Mongols destroyed. Meet Zulus, peace + 100 tribute.
The rest of the time was spent playing around ... conquering those who became nasty etc, and trying to perfect trading skills.
1590
Chinese demand 250g tribute but get war.
1599 Land on AC

--------------------------------------------

SG(2)

[La Fayette]

SG (2)
3 centuries behind solo means 2 centuries before me
Congratulations!

[solo]

Smash,

Welcome! It's great to see a fellow OCC player from back in the days when Paul had been organizing OCC games!

You might enjoy playing this way, as it's very similar to OCC, but without the one city restriction.

Many changes in playing style and strategy have been due to Samson's interest, and subsequent unravelling of, the mysteries of supply and demand in trade. A truly remarkable piece of detective work from which we all benefit now.

RJM,

My first practice attempt at OCC resulted in a landing in the late 1900's, which you improved upon in your first EL game, so you can look forward to rapid progress in the future games.

I am forgetting that most here are new to OCC and EL type play and assumed everyone knew that the AI generally go bonkers after you get Space Flight, so making a ship quickly is important, and gifting tech to neighboring AI on those key turns during construction is another requirement. No need to withold anything, but make sure you spend gold as needed before making contact.

SG(2),

An excellent game, and when I compare the first half, I'm noticing that you beat me to many important landmarks, such as ST, Colossus, Copernicus and SSC size 21!

You are also right about using Darwin's in this game, which is something I should have done, too, to improve my landing date. Sometimes I save it for the very end, when research costs are the highest, and when I'd rather be making gold instead of beakers in my SSC.

Your summary of key events before the detailed log reminds me of the format we used to use in OCC, and I think doing this is a great idea and recommend that we adopt this summary in EL games when reporting results.

I think you were hurt in the second half of your game by the bad luck of poor Aztec development following their loss of Teno their setbacks due to the war with the Vikings. I was luckier, being able to make great trades with those fat Aztec cities.

You may have a "cunning" plan up your sleeve, and when noting your success in the first half of the game, I am starting to feel a bit nervous, but as Slow Thinker has suspected, I am "pyschic" and am devious enough to abuse this advantage, so beware!

For now, I look forward to fownloading the latest games and reading through your log and RJM's.

[Scouse Gits]

Thank you La Fayette and solo for your comments.

Civ2 is a seven-year-old game, and one I have been playing for half that time. It's amazing we are still pushing back the frontiers of understanding to real success.

I learnt a lot. Having played most of my civ on larger maps the power of the road/railroad phantom connections to AI cities does not occur so frequently. For many centuries I enjoyed 35 value trade routes to Mongol cities. One poignant example of how the AI manages its cities came to light during the play. Karakorum had gems within its city limits. During a Barb attack on this town I suddenly noticed my trade route had increased with the Mongol capital. This was because a Barb Legion had occupied a food square and the workers had to use the gems instead! Later on a Mongol engineer irrigated the precious tile.

------------------------------

SG(2)

[Bloody Monk]

SG(2)

Congratulations on a great result!!

It's too bad about the Aztec problem with Barbs or you would have really kicked butt.

Monk

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by SG(2)
Thank you solo for setting up the game and for sharing your expertise with everyone. I hope to do better in the next one.

I want also a 2nd game! I thought up to 400BC that the key civ for supreme is white - a big disaster. I will try to finish it (and to learn the caravan deliveries) but now the game is not very good for comparison purposes.

Am I right in thinking you have never completed a landing on AC? If so ...why? You obviously know much about the game in a theoretical way.

The answer will be short, so I think we can distract others:
I have started about 10 Civ2 games (including scenarios) already. Starts of games are enough interesting for me, because I am a perfectionist: I remember I enjoyed the Campo's comparison game and I spent about 5-10 hours by thinking about an algorithm for a very early game.
Also I don't like micromanagement of 30 cities. OK, I should try a OCC, but I don't have a Civ2 knowledge past Republic yet. Civ2 is very time consuming and so far I spent my limited time on those game starts (but I have to show off that I have finished one scenario).

[Bloody Monk]

@SlowThinker

It does take time and you will (repeat-WILL) become addicted like the rest of us after completing a few games, so be warned.

For the benifit of newer members of the community, ST has contributed many valuable research "papers" about this great game. No need to "show off", ST, as you have already shown up plenty.

Monk

[La Fayette]

AFAIK the only scenario finished by ST was 'Mongol'
... but it must be mentioned that he finished sooner than samson
...well ahead of me

[rjmatsleepers]

BTW, a situation that I have encountered from time to time is that I have two caravans ready to deliver different commodities to the same city which is demanding both of them. After delivering the first caravan, the demand list has changed and the second commodity is no longer in demand . Is there some way of avoiding this? I've tried making the first delivery from the city with the lowest base trade, but this didn't seem to do any good.

RJM at Sleepers

[SlowThinker]

solo,
I would suggest you to move your two super posts about unblocking to a new thread. It deserves its own thread. RJM at Sleepers starts asking, I will do later...

[solo]

SG(2),

I had some time to look over your log in more detail. I think if you had been able to establish a few more colonies and had managed more trades with the AI with freights, two advances per turn were attainable at times. Internal trades don't bring as many beakers and gold, and any roaded or railed routes attained in helpers probably are not enough compensation for doing it this way.

I come away really impressed with the first half of your game, though, and may be adopting some of your ideas in my next game. For example, I gave a thought to learning Horseback Riding early, but discarded this idea, as well as going for Monarchy, in order to reduce carrying costs later in the game. However, looking, back, it may not have been necessary to avoid EVERY off path tech early.

It was interesting to hear about how barbarians shifted workers in a Mongol city, so that one ended up on gems, increasing the value of your trade routes. If the increase was substantial enough, it might have been worthwhile to deliver a few food caravans to that city to boost its population with the idea that the newest citizen might end up on gems after the barbarians had left.

Another tactic may apply in a situation where you might want to lower the base trade in an AI city with the hope of replacing its trade route somewhere. Temporarily occupy a tile with good trade with a unit or maybe poison the water supply to reduce cititzens.

I agree that some new and fascinating way to play this game always seems to appear in time to give it more life. Its depth, detail, and variety make this possible. Most other games are shallow and one-dimensional.

RJM,

Would you happen to have a save of your game made before attempting two deliveries to the same city? If so could you post it as an attachment? Most times, there is something specific about the city or the trades being made that make the difference. I can offer a few general comments:

1. The surest way to find out if a delivery will change a city's demands is to use Samson's formulas on that city to see how this triggering event will change the supply and demand lists. Changes in lists are due to such things as a change in city size, techs acquired, terrain changed, etc., resulting in new values for one or more supply and demand commodities. Any delivery will trigger changes, if any are due, for that city and bring its lists up to date. With the formulas you can figure out what will be in demand after the first delivery, and if one of the two caravans that are waiting will still be a demanded commodity, deliver the other one first. If both will be in demand, you can deliver in any order. If neither will be in demand, deliver the one you can make the most from and look for another place to deliver the other one.

2. Using these formulas is a lot of work, so if you want to just improve your odds of guessing which commodity is the right one to deliver first, you might just settle for calculating the demand wildcard, instead. If this happens to be on the demand list (usually in the middle position if it is), then deliver the other commodity first, since wildcard commodities usually stay put on demand lists after deliveries.

3. If you do not want to calculate wildcards, either, then you might assume that the middle commodity actually is the wildcard, and procedd as above in 2.

4. If your commodities do not match the wildcard or middle demand commodity, odds of success are best if you trade the right hand commodity first, since it just barely made the list in the first place, and is more likely to fall off the list after the first delivery updates the demand list.

5. If one of your commodities is dye or copper, which have "false" demands due to the "bug" Samson and I were always talking about, you are less likely to see them on lists after the first delivery. Usually, "false" demand for dye or copper is indicated when either occupys the left most position in the demand list.

6. There is a lot more that can be said about this, but maybe this is enough for the moment.

Slow Thinker,

I am thinking of incorporating the unblocking posts in the Early Landing Strategy Guide, which I have started working on.

I agree that missing key civ opportunites has probably "spoiled" your first game, but much can be learned by playing it out and by experimenting with other aspects and stages of EL games.

Beating Samson in a scenario would be a feather in anyone's cap, and my congratulations to you for managing that!

Monk,

More than addicting I think. After every game, I'm always thinking, "if only I had done this or that a little differently, I could have saved off another turn or two".
Once it catches hold of you, the early land bug is hard to shake loose!

To others wanting another game, so do I, and being pyschic, I'll be willing to make the prediction that I will have a fresh one waiting to go when this one is over. By the way, I also correctly predicted that I would not be one of the lucky ones to receive one of the 1000 free Rise of Nations betas recently given out! Grr!

[Scouse Gits]

Monk Thanks! I have the feeling that you will land closer to solo's date than mine.

Slow Thinker I echo solo's thoughts that you should carry on playing and reach the Spaceship stage.

solo You are quite correct that the lack of good colonial and foreign trade was my downfall.

A question on the tech tree: I progressed from Space Flight > Plastics > Superconductor then found Fusion Power was not on the menu. Do you always need to research something that you can swap with the AI at this stage? I delayed Flight as long as possible because of the trade bonuses and The Colossus. Is this always the correct path, or is it better to take flight rather than research Mobile Warfare as in my game? (After Computers only Flight was offered on the main path)

------------------------

SG(2)

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by solo

I also correctly predicted that I would not be one of the lucky ones to receive one of the 1000 free Rise of Nations betas recently given out! Grr!

Seigneur, pardonnez leur!
Ils ne savent pas ce qu'ils font!

They probably didn't know that you would be the best among their testers if they sent you the game .
Anyway, they have no excuse

[solo]

SG(2),

If a trade is made on the turn prior to that where you would have ordinarily been presented with a short list of unwanted techs, you'll get the next list in sequence, instead, having the tech(s) you want.

The times this happens depends on your prior trades and your particular route through the tech tree. Usually, I postpone Flight until after getting everything else on the path that is available, including Computers and Laser. After this, I usually have to make a trade on the turn where I'm learning Advanced Flight, in order to pick Rocketry next. A little later, a trade while learning Superconductor, will let you pick Fusion Power next.

If the AI have nothing to trade, you have to learn some extra techs. Giving them these techs or others makes no difference in lists presented. This is another reason to avoid off path techs early in the game, since they can be used to skip unwanted tech lists, on turns where this is necessary. Oedo's research allows you to identify which turns these will be throughout the game. When a short tech list is due next, trade for an off path tech to skip past it to the next tech list in sequence.

By the way, any way of acquiring a new tech skips to the next list, such as when you get a tech from a hut or from taking a city. Things may be complicated by the tech which is acquired, too, as it may effect what may or may not be eligible to appear next.

[Scouse Gits]

solo ... thanks. I will re-read oedo's thread on this one. Fascinating to think that acquiring Polytheism from a hut in 3000BC affects your chances of Fusion Power thousands of years later ... or in your case a few hundred

----------------------

SG(2)

[La Fayette]

Once more, precious knowledge.
Thank you, solo. I don't think I ever read anything about how to skip short lists of unwanted techs.

BTW I replayed my game from 1AD and managed to launch in 1710, almost a century sooner than my 'official' game.
Still a long way to go , but this lets me feel a bit less awkward .

[La Fayette]

I don't think anyone has anything to learn from my 'official' game. Hence this log, restricted to main events:
2250BC: Monarchy
1950BC: Barb attack
750BC: Marco
550BC: Colossus
350BC: Dye from Veii to Teotihuacan = 88g (first camel overseas)
325BC: Republic
80AD: Shakespeare
460AD: Rome size 21
680AD: Copernicus
800AD: Isaac
900AD: Mike
940AD: Democracy
1120: RR
1240AD: Corporation
1520AD: Automobile
1730AD: Flight