Proposal. Remove U.S. Military Members.

[axi]

From any country that does not support the U.S. position.
Save me time, learned ones.
How many members are currently stationed overseas, making their presense felt?
In places such as Germany and Japan?
Remove them.
See how the former host country feel then.

Go Sloww!!!
You are welcome to leave anytime you like. The sooner the better. And don't come back.

The fact is, our country has been asking you to leave since 1974 and it took enormous pressure from the side of the USA to force our governments to renew your permit each time, against the will of the overwhelming majority of the population.

I guess that after the Iraq war happens, it will be very hard for our govt to renew your contract for Suda Bay (it is renewed yearly). The issue of US military bases has become really hot, lately, along with a couple of other things:

- Extremely bad behaviour from US soldiers in Suda Bay, who have caused lethal accidents by driving drunk, have beaten up several people, including an old laady in her own house.

- The fact that, by a new law, US military personnel cannot be tried by Greek courts but have to be handed over to the US, while in the same time, by another law, Greek citizens that are wanted in the US can be extradited.

- The environmental danger posed by the nuclear powered vessels, the DU munitions and the new small nuclear weapons that are forwarded to the ME through the Suda Bay base.

There are plans from the anti-war mouvement to try and close-off the base, after the war begins. At that point, our people will probaly get in trouble with the US marines. If anything happens, the outrage will be enormous and then I guess it's bye-bye time for the base...

[Lancer]

The NATO alliance is coming apart, thanks to the French and Germans. Divisions are beginning to appear in europe. Given 5 or 10 more years the seeds planted during this Iraq period will grow into potential conflict, new arms races, aliance systems. Then you'll come begging for the US to put things right...

It's the way these things go. Europe, left to its own devices, will face war. Always has, always will.

[Spiffor]

Of course. The whole European integration from the latest 50 years was entirely masterminded by the US against the will of the bloodthirsty European governments
It is very ironical that a gung ho American teaches lessons to Europe about having peace. I thought French were "cowards" and germans "gay and in love with the French" ? How come such wussie nations could wage war to each other ?

Edit : by the way, it is absolutely absurd the disagreements within Europe are sources of future war. EU has always known disagreements, which were always solved by heated arguments at the negociations table. There are about as many chances for EU countries to declare war to each other as a nex separatist war in the US : the territory is too much integrated to go to war from within again. It may and will go to war without its borders in the future though.

[Dis]

I still think we should try to be isolationist (despite what I said in the thread I made )

I just hate being hated by the world. All I want is to be liked

So I think we should remove all foreign forces from abroad and avoid all foriegn wars.

Hopefully we will make friends this way

[Drake Tungsten]

I thought French were "cowards" and germans "gay and in love with the French" ?

It's funny cuz it's true...

[DinoDoc]

At that point, our people will probaly get in trouble with the US marines. If anything happens, the outrage will be enormous and then I guess it's bye-bye time for the base...

Interesting that you would actually try to provoke a group of people that you believe to be a buch of violent, drunken idiots into a confrontation.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Lancer
Jaakko, so you believe the euros are done with war? No more war in europe?

...and I'm the one going out on a limb here?

Not very likely to be anything on a scale that they need the US. The USSR is gone, the Warsaw Pact is gone, and there's no single threat likely to emerge in the foreseeable future that the rest of Europe can't handle on it's own.

[Drake Tungsten]

I don't know about that, MtG. I also don't see any major threats to Europe cropping up anytime soon, but the Euros have shown themselves to be incapable of taking care of even minor threats on their own. Another Bosnia or Kosovo could cause all kinds of problems for Europe if the Americans aren't around to bail them out...

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
There are about 50 million reasons supporting continued peace in Europe... Even without US troops

Can somebody tell me, what is the "School of America's"?

School of the Americas is a training facility at Fort Benning, Georgia (home of the US Army Infantry and also the Parachute School, US Army Ranger headquarters and school, and the Pathfinder school (specialized navigation, map, and airlift capability school for paratroops who will go in ahead of, and identify landing zones for paratroops.)

Depending on your ideological inclinations, it is either a training center for friendly governments in this hemisphere specializing in counterinsurgency, counterterrorism, intelligence and special operations, or it is a training center for death squads, torturers and thugs. Reality, as always, is somewhere in the middle.

[The Mad Monk]

Good neighbors know when they're intruding, and should leave.

It's time to bring them home.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I don't know about that, MtG. I also don't see any major threats to Europe cropping up anytime soon, but the Euros have shown themselves to be incapable of taking care of even minor threats on their own. Another Bosnia or Kosovo could cause all kinds of problems for Europe if the Americans aren't around to bail them out...

There I think you're confusing the political will to act against a non-threat, as opposed to the military capability. Regardless of who slaughtered who in the Balkans, it wasn't going to be a significant military threat to the rest of Europe. If you had Ratko Mladic claiming he was going to restore Serbia's rightful place as the ruler of greater Europe, and he actually tried to do something about it, I think you'd see a bit different response from the Europeans before Mladic paraded through the Champs D'Elysées.

[Drake Tungsten]

Do you really think Bosnia was a non-threat? It certainly wasn't a significant military threat, but the refugee flows and other problems associated with the genocide had the potential to destabilize surrounding nations...

[HershOstropoler]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat

If you had Ratko Mladic claiming he was going to restore Serbia's rightful place as the ruler of greater Europe, and he actually tried to do something about it, I think you'd see a bit different response from the Europeans before Mladic paraded through the Champs D'Elysées.

Ah no. The serbs would have marched right through to Paris and Berlin (after they got their ass whopped by the Slovenian militia). I heard it on FOX, it has to be true.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Do you really think Bosnia was a non-threat? It certainly wasn't a significant military threat, but the refugee flows and other problems associated with the genocide had the potential to destabilize surrounding nations...

There are different levels of threats, and different ways of responding to them. Here, we're just talking warfighting capabilities.

[Harovan]

A recent poll (albeit not representative) asking "should the US pull their forces out of Germany?" gave about these results:

Yes!: 50%
No!: 20%
Don't care.: 30%

I think they should already go.

So I think we should remove all foreign forces from abroad and avoid all foriegn wars.

Hopefully we will make friends this way

yes.

[Drake Tungsten]

Here, we're just talking warfighting capabilities.

Alright then. In terms of military capabilities, the Euros have nothing to worry about for the forseeable future. I still doubt that they have the political will to utilize their capabilities, but we're not discussing that...

[Dis]

I agree about pulling forces out of Germany. what good are they? They aren't close to any theatre of significance. Just another cold war relic.

but I am seriously considering the values of isolationism. I just hate being hated by everyone. We try to do things right, and everyone hates us .

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
but we're not discussing that...

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Dissident
but I am seriously considering the values of isolationism. I just hate being hated by everyone. We try to do things right, and everyone hates us .

I sincerely hope the US doesn't go down that route again. Look what happened last time when Europe ran the world into the ground.
Its fine if the US is around to clean up their mess once they've made it but the planet is just sooo much better off if you don't let them screw it up in the first place.

[HershOstropoler]

So what are we now? Cheese eating surrender monkeys, or planet raping bloodthirsty imperialists?

I suppose only rightwing ideologues find no contradiction in the planet raping bloodthirsty surrender imperialist.

[The Mad Monk]

The proper phraeology is "Planet raping bloodthirsty imperialist cheese eating surrender monkeys".

[HershOstropoler]

Has this phrase been approved by the american Ministerium für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda?

[Lancer]

Well Hersho...etc, it's all very technical. At the moment you are cheese eating surrender monkeys, in the past frog eating, head removing, freedom loving, bloody conquest monkeys.

...assuming you are a Frenchie?

...only because you asked.

In the future, well, you are a euro. You'll take what you can get when you can get it. (When we're gone, you have an excuse, and some wacko can get you all going in the same direction, east.)

The Germans are the same except they need less of an excuse and their neighbors are often mere surrender monkeys. They just need to pick a time when there aren't enough Brits around to keep them getting into Paris.

All the excuse they need may turn out to be 'too many Turks in the Fatherland'. I hear this has them goose stepping already...

Let's not leave out the Russians, those friendly vodka swilling barbarians who were handed their first roadbump on the march west in a few thousand years by the US military, yours truly among em.



I blow my nose in your general direction and...

Hey, what's the 'Holy Grail' quote I'm looking for? Little help here?

[Case]

How many members are currently stationed overseas, making their presense felt?
In places such as Germany and Japan?
Remove them.

Um, Japan actually supports the US on this issue.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Lancer
The Germans are the same except they need less of an excuse and their neighbors are often mere surrender monkeys. They just need to pick a time when there aren't enough Brits around to keep them getting into Paris.

Yea, the Iraq issue has shown, that we're the same bloodthirsty barbarians we always have been . Good thing the world has Mahatmah Bush to keep peace.

[HershOstropoler]

Lancer, I wasn't talking about tourism.

[Lancer]

Sir Ralph, little tip, quit the whining, build some panzers and go get those poufy French. This time round, we'll give you air support.

(Just no U boaten, k?)

[Drake Tungsten]

Yea, the Iraq issue has shown, that we're the same bloodthirsty barbarians we always have been

We really broke you Germans, didn't we? All we wanted to do was calm down your more violent and genocidal impulses, but we went too far and ended up turning you into Euro-trash Quakers. Sorry...

[notyoueither]

Ohhh. Now that was bad, Drake.

Can't people on both sides of the lake tone it down a tad?

[HershOstropoler]

"Euro-trash Quakers"

I like that.