Morrowind - Second Expansion - Bloodmoon

ravagon · February 16, 2003, 22:50

Well, it seems the rumour-mill was right for once.

An exerpt from Morrowind Summit

Quote:

Bloodmoon News posted by OSheaman
Well, Bloodmoon has just been released and already rumors are circulating about the new game. First of all, here is the news release from GameSpy Daily (who conveniently forgot to tell their own Morrowind site) (thanks Tyler Wilson)
Bethesda Softworks revealed a second expansion pack to its popular role-playing game, The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind called The Elder Scrolls III: Bloodmoon. The expansion introduces players to the frozen Island of Solstheim where the Empire has begun establishing a mining colony. But all is not well, as workers become cornered about an ancient prophecy called Bloodmoon and tales of werewolves in the area. Players will get to experience some new thrills in this brand new land including snow, blizzards, and new creatures frost trolls, ice minions, and wolves - just to name a few. Bloodmoon will also offer a number of plotlines that players can pursue - defend and help finish building the mining colony or forsake your humanity completely and join the werewolves. The Elder Scrolls III: Bloodmoon is scheduled for release this May for PC. Visit the official site for more details on what this expansion will offer.

The official site now has some info up ... www.elderscrolls.com

Thrawn05 · February 17, 2003, 16:28

So even though both MW and Tribunal are riddled with bugs and in my case (and with many other), CTDs, this gives them the right to drop their other incomplete games and charge on like a blind man down a street?

Yeah, I hope Bloodmoon bombs hard.

pg · February 17, 2003, 19:58

did the first expansion sell well? i'd never buy an expansion like bloodmoon. it sounds just like a couple hours worth of quests and new gfx. maybe if they made it more modable or implemented new gameplay features i'd be interested. i'm obviously not a hardcore morrowinder though. i haven't even made a serious dent into the original game.

Tuberski · February 17, 2003, 23:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05
So even though both MW and Tribunal are riddled with bugs and in my case (and with many other), CTDs, this gives them the right to drop their other incomplete games and charge on like a blind man down a street?

Yeah, I hope Bloodmoon bombs hard.

It's sad to see one of it's biggest supporters not like the game anymore. I don't play either BTW.

ACK!

Dis · February 18, 2003, 06:00

I didn't even know there was a first expansion.

I will finish this game. I just can't get into it like other D&D games. But I did love the world. So big and looked really good. I just couldn't get into the combat engine that much. And the character classes just didn't interest me that much.

Sarxis · February 18, 2003, 12:40

I'll be buying this too when it comes out.

Yeah, the combat engine is rough, and there are bugs, and the occasional CTD forces me to take potty breaks, but I just love living in Vvardenfell- its my great escape.

Dis · February 18, 2003, 20:08

I will finish the original game though. It is a rich world. But I doubt I will get any expansions.

Have there been any good mods that have came out with the editor?

Thrawn05 · February 18, 2003, 22:22

QUOTE:
_____________________________________
Originally posted by Dissident
I will finish the original game though. It is a rich world. But I doubt I will get any expansions.

Have there been any good mods that have came out with the editor?
_____________________________________

Don't. Tribunal only added about an hour of gameplay, and even then, half the sidequests are unplayable once you beat the main quest. It's also riddled with bugs that cause quest problems.

The only "fan" mods released are pretty much cheat mods, such as the million "Rich Creeper". The mods to remove Cliff Racers are a dime a dozen.

The plug-in is a good idea, but their implimentation of it is flawed, and I blame it for all the CTDs in the game, since even the save games are basicly plug-ins as well.

Tub: After a couple of years in the programming bizz... I'm really harsh on idiot programmers. Sorry. Also, I don't hate the game concept itself, I just bring myself to play it anymore knowing what idiots are behind it.

Tuberski · February 18, 2003, 23:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05
QUOTE:
Tub: After a couple of years in the programming bizz... I'm really harsh on idiot programmers. Sorry. Also, I don't hate the game concept itself, I just bring myself to play it anymore knowing what idiots are behind it.

I understand that. However, for Dissident's sake I think you should mention a certain Mod for Morrowind that was very entertaining and can be found on Apolyton.

I played Daggerfall which was also a good game concept( basically the same idea), but it crashed a lot more frequently than Morrowind does, even pre-patch. So the occasional CTW didn't bother me.

Except that, it only seemed to crash when I hadn't saved in a long while.

ACK!

ravagon · February 19, 2003, 01:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05
QUOTE:
The only "fan" mods released are pretty much cheat mods, such as the million "Rich Creeper". The mods to remove Cliff Racers are a dime a dozen.

There are actually a number of pretty darned good mods (I'm biased towards modifying things mind you

) out there and a few total conversions in the works.
Giants x, The wilderness mod, adventurers x, and several others add a large number of different creature types and spawn points all over the map.
Others add new weps, armours, quests, islands, dungeons, etc. I have about 50 or so in total installed at present and still get the occasional crash every couple of hours but its not too bad.
Somebody made up a dungeon with a hundred levels a while ago (Then revised the thing 20 times before I'd even installed it. Grrr.

).

pg · February 19, 2003, 10:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05
The only "fan" mods released are pretty much cheat mods, such as the million "Rich Creeper". The mods to remove Cliff Racers are a dime a dozen.

there isn't much else you can do is there?

Quote:

Also, I don't hate the game concept itself, I just bring myself to play it anymore knowing what idiots are behind it.

*rant warning*

heh, i love talking about morrowind because it could have been such a great game. i did play it non-stop for about 2 weeks but after that i really started to dislike it. it made me mad thinking how much better it could have been. they went to such lengths in certain areas(content) and morrowind could have been a really timeless game if they had added more gameplay features. if they hadn't regressed and instead carried over some of daggerfall's features, like random quests or huge maze dungeons morrowind would have been many times better imo. they spent way too much time on insane numbers of little quests/gfx/spells/items/sound/etc which would have been much better spent on anything ai/combat/gameplay related.

i think you give them too much credit for the concept. it is totally flawed as is. as far as i can tell it's content(content being gfx/sound/meaningless options/mundane quests) over all. maybe they just ran out of time though but it hardly matters now.

there was a huge thread on the morrowind boards complaining about this which was dead on what the problems were. the whole game revolves around combat yet the combat is sooo shallow. most dungeons were also designed for players of low level. of course if you abused the game at all you could basically kill any monster by just getting them stuck since there was horrible clipping problems. someone said they became level 20 by just wandering around and not even exploring more than 15% of the map. that closely mirror my experiences. i remember being quite low level and finding some badass equipment a hill over from one of the first quests. after that i didn't die.

the first dungeon near seyad neen was basically the only time the game was balanced for me. mainly because i was totally clueless, and i was level 1 vs a few baddies. even then i managed to win after 2 tries once i figured out how to abuse the ai.

i admit this isn't really unique to morrowind but somehow i felt abusing the ai was the proper way to play this game as the combat system had relatively no thought put into it.

the only time the game was worth playing was when you strictly stuck to the main story quests or any semblance of challenge was lost. of course playing like that basically means the whole point of morrowind's free play design was broken. many people just got bored with the game because you spent so much damn time walking.

if only they had made combat much more skillful, and challenging or added addititional gameplay elements to morrowind.

it coulda been a killer game. it was still a great game given today's standards. the first part of the game near balmora and the early quests were enthralling but after i learned i could kill anything and there was relatitively no point to doing quests i got really bored. i mean why do quests? you can find daedra equipment just by randomly exploring and money means nothing in morrowind. maybe quests would be worth doing if they enhanced the gameplay but they don't. ok, so i'm the grandmaster what now? i admit most of my lets downs were perceived by me but compared to daggerfall morrowind is just prettier, not really anything more.

Thrawn05 · February 19, 2003, 22:35

QUOTE:
____________________________________
Originally posted by ravagon

There are actually a number of pretty darned good mods (I'm biased towards modifying things mind you

) out there and a few total conversions in the works.
Giants x, The wilderness mod, adventurers x, and several others add a large number of different creature types and spawn points all over the map.
Others add new weps, armours, quests, islands, dungeons, etc. I have about 50 or so in total installed at present and still get the occasional crash every couple of hours but its not too bad.
Somebody made up a dungeon with a hundred levels a while ago (Then revised the thing 20 times before I'd even installed it. Grrr.

).
____________________________________

Yeah if you don't mind corrupted save games.

pg: In case if didn't get the clue from several threads ago... you're not worth argueing against since you'll just rant a call me a liar.

Dis · February 19, 2003, 22:55

so much bad talk about morrowind.

why is this game rated so high. And it had several long threads here in other games. It seemed to be more popular at Apolyton than other rpg's like Neverwinter- which I still play with other people.

But I still want to finish this game. it is good enough to do so. I hate buying a game and playing it and then not finishing it. But unfortunately I have done that many times

pg · February 20, 2003, 11:00

i didn't want to argue i just wanted to rant.

i was hoping maybe someone shared my opinion. just think what mods would be out for morrowind if they had made it better. sigh.

JimMac · February 20, 2003, 17:40

I just bought it along with the Tribunial extension, installed the Adventurers 3 Alpha mod and played it for over 6 hours last weekend. (From what I read the Adventurers mod is supposed to balance out many aspects of the game?).

It hasn't crashed once.

I dont know (or want to use) any tactics which will boost my skills 'unfailrly'.

So far, I have really enjoyed playing the game. I must be wrong I guess?

Jim

pg · February 21, 2003, 12:27

Quote:

Originally posted by JimMac
I dont know (or want to use) any tactics which will boost my skills 'unfairly'.

once you get more experience with the game i think you'll realize it's really unbalanced and some exploits are pretty obvious.

Quote:

So far, I have really enjoyed playing the game. I must be wrong I guess?

not at all.

morrowind was a great game for 2 weeks or so for me. i'm just lamenting over the fact if they had done some things differently it could be a game i'd play practically forever like doom2, or eu2.

General Ludd · February 21, 2003, 13:48

Uhm... if you don't like using exploits and "abusing the AI" why in the hell do you do it?

Eli · February 21, 2003, 14:55

It's a great game...(the original that is). I guess you all know why

, but the world is so rich that I got totally immersed in it for a few weeks. One of the best games I ever played, my first RPG(and it was the best possible first).

I should start it again some day. Though I'll have to figure the thievery/magic system first.

Great game.

pg · February 21, 2003, 20:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
Uhm... if you don't like using exploits and "abusing the AI" why in the hell do you do it?

i guess i must plead guilty to abusing the ai by using the exploit of moving.

if you've played morrowind i'm sure you've had many instances of the ai monsters getting stuck on the walls/doors/tables/etc or firing into those with their spells/arrows. what am i supposed to do when this happens? move into their line of fire purposely or walk up to them and let them beat on me without trying to dodge(even in daggerfall people were circle strafing to dodge)?

if i the ai is so bad that it gets stuck or fires into an obstacle just because i'm strafing around dodging, then that's the game's fault not mine! the game shouldn't have included the option for the player to move like that if it couldn't handle it.

the whole point of combat in most games is to use tactics, and strategy, yes? i think it's a valid tactic to try and dodge enemies sword swings or their fired projectiles. i shouldn't have to handicap myself to make the game challenging. again, the game is at fault not i. saying i shouldn't dodge, just because it works well is like saying "don't use good items because they are good, and thus you'll win too easily". it's hard to revert back to substandard way of playing a game once you've already mastered certain parts of it. if morrowind had been designed right from the start this wouldn't have been a problem. deus ex, the doom's, the quake's, daggerfall!, or serious sam don't have anywhere near the same level of problems morrowind has in this area, so their substandard ai is the problem.

General Ludd · February 21, 2003, 20:49

Either take advantage of the AIs weakness and don't complain about them, or play fair. I agree the AI isn't very good but manipulating it's weaknesses and then complaing that it allows you to do that is absurd.

If the AI is stuck, I do move up to it and engage it in melee. As for it hiting walls and missing alot... well, I do to. The AI might not be very good, but you might aswell make the best of it instead of exploiting it and complaining about it.

And actually, if you find the game too easy I would suggest not using "good items". I do that not only to add a challange but also for roleplaying.

You should play with the game, not against it. It may not be perfect, it may have flaws, but if you focus on those flaws and play the game the way you want it to be rather then the way it is, you are not going to have fun.

ravagon · February 21, 2003, 22:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
Either take advantage of the AIs weakness and don't complain about them, or play fair. I agree the AI isn't very good but manipulating it's weaknesses and then complaing that it allows you to do that is absurd.

You should play with the game, not against it. It may not be perfect, it may have flaws, but if you focus on those flaws and play the game the way you want it to be rather then the way it is, you are not going to have fun.

Osweld.
After all, its called roleplaying for a reason...

Tuberski · February 21, 2003, 22:57

Part of the problem with Morrowind is the Monty Haul feel to it.

For those who have played PNP roleplaying games you know what I'm talking about.

For the rest, it just seems like you get to powerful to quickly. It should be a LOT harder to find things of better quality than steel, and everything should be a LOT more expensive.

When I know where all the good Artifacts are, every time I play, it gets a little predictable. There should have been at least some way to randomize the location of artifacts. Either in different dungeons or the dungeons themselves being in different locations.

ACK!

pg · February 22, 2003, 15:49

Quote:

I agree the AI isn't very good but manipulating it's weaknesses and then complaing that it allows you to do that is absurd.

i don't understand why complaining is absurd. the other games i mentioned have ai good enough so these problems are minimal. i understand it's a rpg, but i need a decent ai for it to be playable to me.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuberski
Part of the problem with Morrowind is the Monty Haul feel to it.

For those who have played PNP roleplaying games you know what I'm talking about.

For the rest, it just seems like you get to powerful to quickly. It should be a LOT harder to find things of better quality than steel, and everything should be a LOT more expensive.

i knew i wasn't the only one who had complaints.

i managed to stumble over items left and right without even trying in morrowind's wilderness. compared to other games which balance out how items are gained as you level up; in morrowind you can literally walk from the first town and find something near daedra quality within an hour.

heh, money hardly serves a purpose in the game after you level up a few times. once you get a few thousand gold there is literally no point to money. anything you could buy which costs a lot is almost 10 times easier to find or steal once you have some decent in game experience(like knowing where to find the guys that drop daedra!). it's hard to roleplay in an environment where there are so many easy opportunities. this is made worse by the fact that being an opportunist is surprisingly easy and often has no consequences if you have any idea of how the game works.

or you can just sell things to shop keepers for more money than you bought the original item for(did they patch this yet?). even the best roleplayers will have a hard time resisting the free alchemy set in the caldera mage's guild or the soulgem on the desk for one of the first mage's guild quest in balmora.

Quote:

When I know where all the good Artifacts are, every time I play, it gets a little predictable. There should have been at least some way to randomize the location of artifacts. Either in different dungeons or the dungeons themselves being in different locations.

agreed. even daggerfall had lots of random questing why couldn't morrowind?

General Ludd · February 22, 2003, 17:35

Quote:

Originally posted by pg

i don't understand why complaining is absurd. the other games i mentioned have ai good enough so these problems are minimal. i understand it's a rpg, but i need a decent ai for it to be playable to me.

You don't see how complaining about something that you're doing yourself is absurd? There's nothing wrong with complaining about the AI, but don't exploit it if it bothers you - you're just making your own problems.

Quote:

i knew i wasn't the only one who had complaints.

i managed to stumble over items left and right without even trying in morrowind's wilderness. compared to other games which balance out how items are gained as you level up; in morrowind you can literally walk from the first town and find something near daedra quality within an hour.

heh, money hardly serves a purpose in the game after you level up a few times. once you get a few thousand gold there is literally no point to money. anything you could buy which costs a lot is almost 10 times easier to find or steal once you have some decent in game experience(like knowing where to find the guys that drop daedra!). it's hard to roleplay in an environment where there are so many easy opportunities. this is made worse by the fact that being an opportunist is surprisingly easy and often has no consequences if you have any idea of how the game works.

geting items enchanted costs tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of gold pieces. Magic spells can be quite expensive aswell, and all of the small things like alchemy ingrediants, arrows, lockpicks, ect... all add up.

I don't understand your complaints about stealing... do you think you should have to pay when stealing an item?

(besides, I imagine that the fine for geting caught is much more expensive)

And I'll say it again, you don't have to pick up or use everything you find in the wilderness. If you think it's too easy to do, why do you do it?

Quote:

or you can just sell things to shop keepers for more money than you bought the original item for(did they patch this yet?). even the best roleplayers will have a hard time resisting the free alchemy set in the caldera mage's guild or the soulgem on the desk for one of the first mage's guild quest in balmora.

There you go again, complaining about your own exploitation.

Dis · February 23, 2003, 04:31

where can I find these great items just outside the first city again?

I haven't found that many great items yet. Although I did manage to find a sword with fire damage fairly quickly.

pg · February 23, 2003, 15:41

dissident -

i haven't played the game in a few months so i don't remember in much detail. i do remember there being a few islands near seyda neen with some good items, and in the original game this is where the robe of st. rois(sp?) was near too. they were underwater grottos(i remember finding a dead body with good armor in one of these) or caves on islands. i also remember there being a peice(s) of ebony(or some other dark metal) near the fields of kummu. i remember these because they were the ones i found really quick when i started playing the game. there really is so much stuff lying around in morrowind, just start wandering in the wilderness and explore every cave/dungeon you come across.

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
You don't see how complaining about something that you're doing yourself is absurd? There's nothing wrong with complaining about the AI, but don't exploit it if it bothers you - you're just making your own problems.

are you being serious?!

don't exploit the ai when it operates so horribly? it exploits itself by just me playing the game. it's obviously my fault the game doesn't have good ai, so to make up for this shortcoming i should handicap my play. perhaps i should only be allowed to go left? being able to go right is too unbalanced in conjunction with left turns. oh wait, if i turn left too much i will be going right.

this is silly. we are on different levels here. in morrowind you obviously don't try to play for power/items/etc even though the whole game revolves around combat. are you a roleplayer? you have fun collecting silverware or shirts to display in your house? i find activity like that boring and pointless compared to trying to figure out the combat system. it's just personal preference.

Quote:

getting items enchanted costs tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of gold pieces. Magic spells can be quite expensive as well, and all of the small things like alchemy ingrediants, arrows, lockpicks, ect... all add up.

only someone who didn't understand morrowind at all would pay for enchantment. paying for enchantment is insane. you can train yourself for a fraction of the cost it would take to pay an enchanter to do the same work. all it takes is time and effort practicing your skills(every morrowind character can max every skill iirc). i think all you need to do to have good success is something like quaff a bunch of intelligence buffs. the time you take to train you skills would take less time than trying to gather the necessary money(especially considering how most merchants have limited money) in order to pay for enchantment.

i remember using my arrows over and over again by picking them up off dead bodies(did this change in a patch?). alchemy ingrediants where abundent if you knew where to look. of course it usually involved travel since certain ingrediants only grew in certain areas of morrowind but you didn't need to buy them. you could usually find lots by just looking in random crates in cities/dungeons also. these crates will also respawn their contents within a certain amount of time(i don't remember what it was). lockpicks weren't a big deal for me as i either used scrolls(which always worked unlike picks), or magic(i think you only needed 30 skill in alteration to magically open most locks without much trouble).

Quote:

I don't understand your complaints about stealing... do you think you should have to pay when stealing an item?

(besides, I imagine that the fine for getting caught is much more expensive)

i'm just saying stealing is way too easy. there are way too many opportunities to lift easy items which can potentially unbalance the game. even if i was a roleplaying i think i'd be hard pressed not to pilfer some.

Quote:

And I'll say it again, you don't have to pick up or use everything you find in the wilderness. If you think it's too easy to do, why do you do it?

what is the point of the game if you don't use things you find? doesn't that mean the game is unbalanced if it becomes to easy when i use items i find? i think the more important question is why are items so abundent and why are they so easy to find/get? i do it because i can then beat the game and then stop playing(which i have long ago).

Quote:

There you go again, complaining about your own exploitation.

morrowind is a very exploitation rich environment. this is the design of the game. games are supposed to be balanced so exploitation is limited. if doom 3 comes out and you start with infinite ammo and every weapon(including bfg), are you going to tell me just to use the shotgun because it's too easy otherwise? i know this is an exaggerated example compared to morrowind yet it's the same thing. morrowind could be much more balanced but something stopped them from making it so.

i don't think any of this will convince you. we have different opinions, and we just disagree.

General Ludd · February 23, 2003, 16:17

I guess you just don't have any self control or no attention span, or something. You powergame, exploit, cheat, and then complain it's too easy. You are your own undoing.

Tuberski · February 24, 2003, 19:29

Quote:

Originally posted by pg
dissident -

i haven't played the game in a few months so i don't remember in much detail. i do remember there being a few islands near seyda neen with some good items, and in the original game this is where the robe of st. rois(sp?) was near too. they were underwater grottos(i remember finding a dead body with good armor in one of these) or caves on islands. i also remember there being a peice(s) of ebony(or some other dark metal) near the fields of kummu. i remember these because they were the ones i found really quick when i started playing the game. there really is so much stuff lying around in morrowind, just start wandering in the wilderness and explore every cave/dungeon you come across.

That ebony armor is in one of the ancestral tombs, and it's not hard to get at all.

ACK!

Dis · February 25, 2003, 05:23

I was in one of those tombs. I may already have it

. I'm not that familiar with the armour names. I just put on the set with the best numbers

pg · February 25, 2003, 14:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
I guess you just don't have any self control or no attention span, or something. You powergame, exploit, cheat, and then complain it's too easy.

yes, since obviously my opinions differ from yours i'm obviously all those things you said. are you so insecure in your own opinions that you need to bash mine even though you haven't refuted them yet?

i like lots of games that need self control and attention span , the best example being eu2, which is one of my favorite games. if eu2 doesn't require self control or attention span i don't what does.

Quote:

You are your own undoing.

indeed.