10 Tips to get you up to Emperor/Deity - Page 2

vulture · February 19, 2003, 08:19

Two points on the subject of tech trading.

Firstly, it is quite possible to keep up in tech with the AI on emperor, with judicious trading. Typically I will fall a few techs behind at a time, and then get the opportunity to catch up and make a profit in the process. It depends on figuring out which techs yuo can research in 40 turns that the AI isn't going to get any quicker than that, and using that as you bargaining chip. When AI's get map making is also a great opportunity. In my last game (24 civs

) I had no techs to trade with, and there were three techs floating around that I didn't have. By plotting who had what techs, I organised to buy one, trade it for the others and some cash, and then buy a world map, which combined with my map was quite valuable, and sold widely. In the trading session I went from being three techs behind the leader to having those three techs, 200 more gold and a complete map of the continent, despite having nothing to trade with in the first place (so that was all pure profit). Brokering is powerful if you get the right opportunity.

Secondly, as recently illustrated by Catt (I think) very nicely, is the value of giving techs away for free sometimes. In Catt's example, he was getting large gpt from civ A for techs, while civ B was perpetually broke, mostly because B was behind A in techs and was buying them for gpt. By giving B free techs to get them to the level of A, A had nothing to sell, and so Catt was able to then sell his techs to both A and B, getting more of the money at A's expense. Sometimes giving stuff away to one civ can weaken another civ that would otherwise have traded with the first civ. And anything that harms you nearest rivals is good.

joncnunn · February 19, 2003, 13:14

Regarding Granieries, I regard the first one if built fast enough as a REX tactic useful for both warmonglers and peaceful builders. Additional Graneries are more useful for builders.

Regarding cash & tech buying: I use cash as a last resort to buy techs when GPT is maxed out; mostly in the ancient era when I'm still under Despotism, there's no trade network set up, and I have no other tech in return.

Quote:

Originally posted by yxhuvud
dominae regarding tech brokering: well, I admit it might be a bit farfetched to say that I would never sell replaceable parts, I wouldn't even think on it if I were to wage a war within a reasonable timeframe. On the other hand, this might be kinda influenced that the last games I've played have been largely building a few infantry and a gazillion of artillery

Regarding granaries, check your target audience, are they mainly warmongers or builders? In my experience, monarch players are mostly builders. Arrian not inlcuded.

Joncunn: if you save your incomes a few turns eventually you will be able to buy a tech for the money. It is of course a balance act to choose when to save and when to build improvements. It all comes down to which techs and whcih improvements.

Arrian, you should really take the step up to emperor permanantly. You will not improve unless you take on a challenge, which you don't at that level. At least for me, half the charm in playing the game is the mental challenge and the improvement of my play. Without any such challenge I might as well be playing Hearts.. Not saying that can't be satisfying anyhow, if in a different way.

Hmm. Dave, do you have any suggestions on how to survive the initial onslaught at deity? I feel I have a nice chance of winning as long as noone attacks me first, while if they do I am totally b0rked.

Regarding the spelling of my nick, I happen to live in a country where it is pronouncible and actually almost means something

#20: Place your cities so that not only you get production from as much land tiles as possible, but as many coast and sea tiles as well. This allows for tighter city placement close to coasts to maximize the amount of tiles you get production from. A wealthy civ have it much easier than a poor one.

joncnunn · February 19, 2003, 13:18

You've been beat to #20, you'll need to edit it rename it #21.

I agree with the Principle, but the exact numbers depends on the time era. Waiting to have 8 to 10 units in the ancient era is often overkill.

What's more important is:
#22: Never, ever attack a city until you are positive you have enough units to take it that turn. While waiting around, bombard the heck out of it, the surronding terraign, as well as the stregtic and luxary resources.

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus

Tip # 20 (and I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet): When you a ready to go to war, don;t screw around. You want a minimum of 8-10 units for a given town, and god knows how many for cities and metros. Hit'em fast and hit'em hard.

(there's probably a lot of other military stuff to add here)

Dominae · February 19, 2003, 13:49

joncnunn, ever a warmonger-type game can benefit from Granaries. Getting a few "pumps" (large Granary cities with many improved tiles) up and running provides for a very strong economy, which directly supports warmongering. It is not necessary for every city to produce Barracks/unit, and in fact it is undesirable (which is my point). In the 'Dark Side case study' game I posted a short while ago, Granaries were an integral part of the early-game, and could easily be integral to the remainder as well, in a select few cities. This does not take away from the fact that the Zulus were to be bloodthirsty warmongers until the time's end.

Dominae

badams52 · February 19, 2003, 14:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus
badams, nice one... never thought of it that way.

Thanks, I noticed the pricing scheme of multiple luxuries when Catt had a question about scarcety.

wilbill · February 22, 2003, 00:54

Dom, thanks for the list. Most of your tips are already an instinctive part of my game, but I obviously needed a reminder about #'s 5 & 8. After reading your post, I went back into my current game, started checking the AI's every turn and immediately (within 5 turns) got a couple of tech trades and three tech for gpt deals. I'd have missed most of these as I'd gotten lazy about checking the diplomacy screen as often as it should be done. Sure, it's a nuisance but the benefits far outweigh the time it takes.

yxhuvud · February 22, 2003, 09:56

Regarding how many units you need for an early war, it is highly dependant on what level you are playing, and also on wheather the ai has been in war already.

Master Zen · February 23, 2003, 01:01

I would say don't even think about starting a war with less than 20 units. And don't spread them out! The AI usually follows your momentum so keeping your forces in a few spearheads is better than fanning out.

Master Zen · February 23, 2003, 01:11

Tip #22: Take advantage of your GA. Know your civ and use your GA to go on either a building spree or to conquer your continent.

Tip #23: unless you are going for a super-desirable wonder (which other than the GL or Pyramids I don't see any), use your first leader to build the Forbidden Palace if it hasn't been built already. Usually you'll get your leader in your first war for expansion after rexing ends (at least me). There's nothing worse than doubling your territory and ending up with worthless corrupt cities.

Aias · February 27, 2003, 09:39

Very useful stuff! I'm tired of getting my lunch handed to me on chieftain level. Knowing this, I'm sure EVERYBODY will want to play me on multiplayer--that is if it worked!

One tip that can be very useful: I always have one of my cities building a palace. Say that the AI is ahead of me in techs and won't sell or trade any. When I get to an advance that has a wonder, I'll switch over production from the palace that is building to the wonder. That way I can build it before the AI does. Granted, this causes the palace to bounce around a lot and does waste production, but I can usually gain 1-4 wonders a game using this.

Opinions?

Dominae · February 27, 2003, 09:49

Aias, Wonder pre-builds using the Palace are very useful tool. Eventually you should be able "time" your pre-builds for specific Wonders (or two), by estimating how much time is left until that required tech.

Also, do not forget about your Palace build, you could end up with a unwanted Palace relocation!

Dominae

player1 · February 27, 2003, 12:38

And Solar Plants are nice (same strategy as with Palace) when waiting for needed tech to build some space part.

badams52 · February 27, 2003, 12:50

Quote:

Originally posted by player1
And Solar Plants are nice (same strategy as with Palace) when waiting for needed tech to build some space part.

best to match up the SS part with the amount of shields it will take...Solar plants, Airports and Palace.

actually, since I hate pollution, I also prebuild for mass transit and the recycling centers. But it's hard to match it up cause if I start buildilng solar plants, I might waste shields, and coal plants don't require enough sheilds. Battleships are on the money, but that only works for costal cities. Tactical nukes would work, but I usually research ecology before fission.

Napolean · March 5, 2003, 07:11

Hey erm, I'm already in 1400s ad but still did not get a single great leader. Anybody has any suggestions about getting great leaders?

GeneralTacticus · March 5, 2003, 07:19

Get as many elite units as you can, keep them safe, and send them into battles that they will win as much as possible.

player1 · March 5, 2003, 08:08

I had one game with Mongols.

It was a total war game won by domination in later Industrial age.

And you know how many leaders I got?

Just one.
(and I had so many elite units)

P.S.
So luck is luck.

Master Zen · March 6, 2003, 00:19

Quote:

Originally posted by player1
I had one game with Mongols.

It was a total war game won by domination in later Industrial age.

And you know how many leaders I got?

Just one.
(and I had so many elite units)

P.S.
So luck is luck.

Muy current game with France I'm in about the year 1300 (just started the industrial age) and I've had the whopping total of 6 leaders so far. And France isn't even militaristic...

guess it's just luck

Mountain Sage · March 6, 2003, 10:05

Badam52,

Tip#7: so you have a wife AND g.f. ? Mmmm, interesting. What game do you play usually?

Sorry, wrong post maybe

badams52 · March 7, 2003, 12:25

In my world, the "/" means "or."

I could have used "significant other," but I find that term so impassionate.

Dominae · March 7, 2003, 16:37

Not as impassionate as "insignificant other"...

vee4473 · March 7, 2003, 20:30

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1

I don't think he was saying that. It was mentioned to use the money for upgrades. The point is that money is not earning interest unless you have Wall street and then you only need 1000.
I think the point is to use your money, not pile up 10,000, while you could be buying useful structures or units.

I agree with using your cash to a point, but I always thought it was never a bad idea to pile up some reserve cash.

Because, in the later parts of the game, as in life, you never can tell when you will need some extra cash...Either to rush build the few remaining parts of your spaceship, some nukes to counter an enemy strike, or some battle units to defend against an attack that you never dreamed could possibly break through your defenses.

The above scenarios for needing extra cash relate to the game , not your life...ha ha

vee4473 · March 7, 2003, 20:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae

9. Master the Light and Dark Sides

...Too many players build Universities during war. Similarly, too many players have huge standing armies when they need almost none.

Dominae

Very good point Dominae, but I am having trouble with this one.

I have yet to experience a game even on the lower settings where you don't need adequate defense forces if you are just a builder.

Builder or not, the AI senses the lack of military units and decides to pounce.

Dominae · March 7, 2003, 20:55

Quote:

Originally posted by vee4473
Builder or not, the AI senses the lack of military units and decides to pounce.

True. You really have to acquire a "feel" for when and which civs are going to attack. But there are ways to avoid having to build up a big military just to protect your behind, my favorite among which is signing alliances. I'll pay almost any price if I can get two nearly equally-matched civs to go to war. This removes most of the pressure from you, so that you can continue building "peacefully", with only a token military.

Dominae

vee4473 · March 7, 2003, 21:25

very good.

with regards to how the AI judges whether or not to attack:

I seem to remember reading that the AI judges your overall strength based on how many overall units you have, not on how many actual MILITARY units you have.

That the AI just sees that you have a certain number of units...not accounting for whether they are military or just workers.

I'm wondering if this is true.

For example, is it possible that the AI will interpret 100 workers in the same way as 100 tanks?

and therfore you can have many many workers, but the AI can't tell that they are just workers and therefore decides to be more peaceful...not knowing that the "many many units" are workers and therefore no threat.

So it may be possible to fool the AI civs into thinking that you are more powerful than you really are...just buy building so many workers..

not sure if this is true

GeneralTacticus · March 7, 2003, 21:26

I believe this was once the case with the military advisor, but is not the case any more.

Jaybe · March 7, 2003, 22:06

vee4473, while the player's F3 used to compare armies by number of units, the AI always used military combat strengths to determine policy. The F3 was fixed in Civ3 1.29f.

Whether movement points were factored in at all is another question.

Mountain Sage · March 10, 2003, 07:22

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Dominae

True. You really have to acquire a "feel" for when and which civs are going to attack.

I fully agree with you. But then, you can set a trap for an arrogant Civ. In my actual game, playing the French on a Huge map with 16 Civs, Emperor, I had only a token military force (15 Workers, 1 Galley, 2 Spearman). The Persian already blackmailed me for 100 gold. I kept feeding my World map every turn to all other Civs to keep them happy and disbanded my two Spearmen. The Persians promptly requested 'Economics or...' I said no, they declared war and I traded Economics (or older Techs) to all other Civs for a military alliance. The next turn, Persia was at war with 14 other Civs. Since they are opposite me on the map, my Galley will be my only military force for a while longer...

Mountain Sage · March 14, 2003, 06:10

Quote:

Originally posted by vee4473

Builder or not, the AI senses the lack of military units and decides to pounce.

Are you really sure?
In my last game, Huge map, Emperor, French, 16 Civ I had only 2 Spearmen and 1 Galley (+13 Workers) from 950 BC to 1'000 AD (diplomatic win) without going to war once.
I also won my 1st game on Emperor with a space race without having fired a single shot.

Any 'scientific statistics' or particular thread? I just don't believe I have such exceptional diplomatic skills....

vmxa1 · March 14, 2003, 14:05

You can offset the propensity of the AI to choose you as a taget (for your low military standing), with your diplomacy. This works best if you have MPP/RoP with other civs.

vee4473 · March 14, 2003, 19:38

well, maybe it is just my experience, but I have always noticed that as you build more military units, the AI softens it's warlike stance with you.

I mean that instead of declaring war if you don't give them a tech they want, they will say something along the lines of "we'll spare you this time"...etc...

But, I imagine it would be possible to avoid war even if you don't have many units if you give in to every demand the AI makes. I don't tend to do that.

Maybe it's more accurate to say that the AI will sense the lack of military units and decide whether or not to cut you slack if you don't give in to their every demand.

Just my experience.