Bush To Ignore Voice of the People - Page 5

Ramo · February 20, 2003, 02:45

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Right, but the more randomly a poll is conducted, doesn't that increase the chances of greater diversity among voters?

Not really. If you think of diversity as the standard deviation of a sample, diversity would be maximized by choosing a nonrandom sample unless the distribution you're looking at is uniform, which is rarely the case.

OliverFA · February 20, 2003, 12:11

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Originally posted by Sava
Sloww, a great majority of that 71% are those "beer-swilling, NASCAR watching, mullet wearing wackos" Detroit Dave was talking about. I don't really give a sh1t what these people think.

Oh yes! look here we have an authentic democrat! If people think like me then we must respect democracy. If they don't think like me then all of them are wrong.

Quote:

And just because something is popular, or supported by the majority, doesn't make it right. Plus, polls are of small sample sizes and not even close to 0.01% of the total American population.

Can you explain why your opinion is a lot more important than the opinion of all that people? Just because they don't think like you?

Go and meet Chirac, because he thinks exactly the same as you. France and Germany are the only EU countries oposing and then "Europe is divided". Does this mean that France and Germany are as important as all the other countries together?

OliverFA · February 20, 2003, 12:13

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Originally posted by Velociryx
Obviously, DF and others believe that we should run the country on the basis of opinion polls, even if the whims of people are incredibly malleable.

We elect officials to speak for us. To make decisions on larger issues.

That's what they get paid to do.

If you disagree with the decisions they make, vote them out of office.

Pretty simple stuff.

-=Vel=-

SlowwHand · February 20, 2003, 12:14

71% of whatever you want to call them still rules the roost.

Caligastia · February 20, 2003, 12:29

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Originally posted by orange

Wow, that's scary. It's one thing to stand by and let it happen, it's another to get off your ass and support the mass destruction of another group of people.

Do you really think anyone wants to see innocent Iraqis killed Orange(besides Saddam)? That's why we're going to war, because we don't want to see any more killed.

SlowwHand · February 20, 2003, 12:33

Absolutely, Cal.
Not a thing against the Iraq people.

Boris Godunov · February 20, 2003, 12:42

Quote:

Originally posted by MrFun

Right, but the more randomly a poll is conducted, doesn't that increase the chances of greater diversity among voters?

So really randomness and diversity of voters are somewhat interrelated?

A random sample would be only diverse as the society in which it is conducted. So, in theory, if a random sample of the U.S. is conducted, it's going to include about 60% white people, 11% Black people, 14% Hispanic, etc.

Any poll that tried to get equal numbers of participants from each demographic would be woefully inaccurate for guaging actual public opinion.

rah · February 20, 2003, 13:01

It's very difficult to get a truely random sample.

Phone. (even using raised digit to account for unlisted numbers) is biased against poor people, since they're more likely not to own phones.

Internet. Biased against poor people. (even worse than phone)

Face to face. Biased by the location of the interview.

Mail. Usually biased by the mailing list. Or the look of the mail piece.

Weighting the responses is the more respected method.

RAH

When we do country wide mail surveys, we randomly sample from a nationally balanced universe. But since we only balance the universe to 6 factors, (location,race,age,sex,income,household size), it's far from perfect. But better than most.

MrFun · February 20, 2003, 13:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

A random sample would be only diverse as the society in which it is conducted. So, in theory, if a random sample of the U.S. is conducted, it's going to include about 60% white people, 11% Black people, 14% Hispanic, etc.

Any poll that tried to get equal numbers of participants from each demographic would be woefully inaccurate for guaging actual public opinion.

I see

Caligastia · February 20, 2003, 13:06

Of course, racial diversity is the only diversity that counts because everyone knows that people of the same race are all alike.

MrFun · February 20, 2003, 13:14

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Originally posted by Caligastia
Of course, racial diversity is the only diversity that counts because everyone knows that people of the same race are all alike.

You people from New Zealand have strange ways of thinking.

Caligastia · February 20, 2003, 13:16

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Originally posted by MrFun

You people from New Zealand have strange ways of thinking.

I guess you didn't recognise the sarcasm....oh well.

Boris Godunov · February 20, 2003, 13:28

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Originally posted by Caligastia
Of course, racial diversity is the only diversity that counts because everyone knows that people of the same race are all alike.

Uh...if a poll breaks down the respondents by race, it will show, by race, who thinks what, ergo showing different opinions among and within the races...

Anyway, rarely do polls conducted include a breakdown of race or other demographics of the respondants, unless such factors have a bearing on the issue at hand.

Caligastia · February 20, 2003, 13:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Uh...if a poll breaks down the respondents by race, it will show, by race, who thinks what, ergo showing different opinions among and within the races...

Anyway, rarely do polls conducted include a breakdown of race or other demographics of the respondants, unless such factors have a bearing on the issue at hand.

I know, I just think it's funny that the same people who say race doesn't matter are the ones who trumpet the virtues of racial diversity the most.

Japher · February 20, 2003, 13:39

Nice Cali... Turning it into a race thing once again... I am laughing so hard I think I peed my pants!

Caligastia · February 20, 2003, 13:55

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Originally posted by Japher
Nice Cali... Turning it into a race thing once again... I am laughing so hard I think I peed my pants!

Glad someone appreciates it.

Japher · February 20, 2003, 13:58

I want to Rant on protestors, and those of you who think that they represent "the people". I want to Rant about those who think that 1 protestor =10 people... That is so absurd!

Anywho...

100,000 protestors in SF = 1,000,000 people

Hmmm... There aren't even that many people living in SF! So lets go with the whole bay area, which is around 7,000,000. That is just under 15% of the population that protested? Wow! And that doesn't even include those from Sacramento who I am sure came over to whine about things they don't understand. I think Sacramento Metro Area is about 3.5 Million People. That brings the protestor percentage down to about 10% of the population, if I use your silly 1:10 conversion. Should I also throw out the 1,000 rioters? Those who started trashing the town and committing acts of violence? Wow to think that would happen at a peace protest!!? (<- Sarcasm) Also, what about all the other idiots there who just went along for the ride? I think I could reduce your number down to at least 9% of northern California is against the war, if I use that logic. This is really wierd, now. Seeing how N. Cali is THE hotbed of hippies, tree huggers, and freaks (myself included)....

Hmmm... The "voice of the people"? Not at all!

Even if I upped the conversion I would have to assume that 1 protestor represents 55 people! That would be a really silly assumption.

I think Bush listens, I think he definitly hears... I also don't believe that he wants to go to war. No one does. Yet, whether we are protecting our interests, our safety, or our way of life, I don't really care. We need to go to war, now. That is what these protestors should be debating.

Actually, what they should be doing, if they really want peace, which I don't really think so, they should be protesting to Saddam to disarm. The should be begging him to. Yet, they would rather be unpartriotic and bad mouth their own country. These same idiots want to protest during the work week, in order to stop production and disturb finacial trade. Wow, I guess with friends like these who needs enemies? They may succeed where Osama failed!! Hosers.

Tell you what... Saddam is a diseased idiot, who has surrounded Baghdad with chemicals that he plans on using if the town is ever besieged. Not to keep the American out, but to keep the citizens in. They guy is a nut job with a really big gun, and too much money for his own good.

Uggg....

I think I will just go back to the race thread with Cali

DinoDoc · February 20, 2003, 14:08

http://www.brain-terminal.com/articl...e-protest.html

This looks like another good thread to post this in.

SlowwHand · February 20, 2003, 14:12

Why is it there are no outgoing "boat people".

Boris Godunov · February 20, 2003, 14:18

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Originally posted by SlowwHand
Why is it there are no outgoing "boat people".

Americans can afford plane tickets.

MrFun · February 20, 2003, 15:40

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Originally posted by Caligastia

I know, I just think it's funny that the same people who say race doesn't matter are the ones who trumpet the virtues of racial diversity the most.

What is wrong with affirming diversity in positive light?

Anyway, congrats -- as someone else said, you have again Caligastiacized this thread.

SlowwHand · February 20, 2003, 15:45

Your location is in error.