Arghhh!!! I hate these aliens!!!!

It seems that every time I start a new game, no matter what faction I play in SMAX, I almost always end up where the aliens will land, or at least within 20 squares. That's too close for comfort, because no matter which alien is close by, they'll go to war with you anyway.

So the question is, what should I do with them? Try to eliminate them as soon as possible, or ignore them until I can wipe them out in one shot?

Though i love to enslave other factions, aliens are an exception. kill!! kill! kill!! die, you ugly, hideous, worm-breathed, tusk-faced wretch!!!!!

What techniques do you pros use to eliminate them. In the late gam or mid game, it's no trouble, but i just almost always start near at least one of them. so getting them out of my sight is a high priority for me.

[knowhow2]

My man, you asked the right question..... and with the right mentality (which you do have), the answer is simple..... High Energy Chemistry. You do know what you get with it, right?

Nerve Gas!!!!

Gas the aliens.... no penalties from other factions and since you gonna kill them anyway, what they think doesn't matter!

[Purple]

The only way I know to liquidate the aliens right after they land is to sneak into their unoccupied bases while they are still scouting. This is possible if you have a rover or two or mind worm unit (depends on which faction you are playing).

However, most of the time it's a hopeless cause. You can either try to find a choke point and defend it from the inevitable alien attack or else start a new game.

High energy chemistry isn't easy to get if you're playing blind research. and pirates are so slow to grow. i thought i should enslave all the nearby human factions first before i go on an assult of the aliens.

with the right submissive, i don't have to concentrate on research yet, and can concentrate on building a sizable force of impact squads and impact rovers for an invasion of the alien landmass. plus the submissives can supply extra energy credits for me to rush buy my army.

what do you think?

[Cybergod]

This is my easy solution for the aliens:

4x-1-2 or if you can't wait for DocMobility
4x-1-1

they are great against the aliens, since they are both high enouth to penetrate the alien 3res aromur and kill off the alien citizens .

[RedFred]

...but until you get nerve gas, lie low. If you give everything to the nearest alien faction that they want, and declare war on the other set of Aliens they will often leave you alone for long enough to get some tech. Talk to them as little as possible (don't move your units next to their's) and crank up the research.

If possible, avoid any conflict until you have: nerve gas, a "6" attack weapon and a "3" defense.

The alien sandwich is even more difficult. If they are both really close, you just have to lie really low and hope. I admit to having lost a couple of games in that type of situation.

The exception to my normal strategy would be when I play Cha Dawn. Any nearby faction can be a great target from day one; even the aliens, if the silly hat guy/gal gets on a roll. The early game worm rush works particularly well against the Usurpers.

[Skanderbeg]

Oh, I know it, Marr falling directly before your feet in 2104 is the worst starting position You can think

So You have to eat chalk and give the Aliens what they want
give them money, tech, and declare vendetta to Your friends
until You get High Energy Chemistry and it's payback time

But even giving the Aliens all that they want makes it not certain that they would not attack You, so You have to plan for that.

Although the Aliens like to build sea bases, they are land-based factions.
So, if You are in danger of being crushed by the Aliens, it is the time for "Return to the Sea". Go Pirate! Build sea colony pods and found sea bases at hidden places out of the range of the Aliens. This will allow You survive as long as You get HEC.

Few games ago, I have played this strategy in a game with Lal, against THREE Aiens factions (one was custom faction), and it has saved my A$$

[Sikander]

Red Fred is right about worms. A green faction can do some good damage to the aliens in the earliest days with these things. Just knocking off the Ogres is a worthwhile endeavor, and very do-able with worms.

[Jokka das Trevas]

To knock off the ogres I only use a laser infantry and a synthmetal one, get both to fight some mindworms for morale(walk inside fungus a little, these are random encounters). Rest them on the nearest city of yours so they can get full health.

Better yet if you get to pack a monolith nearby, so you can upgrade your unit's morale further.

Oh, yes. keep a scout nearby the aliens, they'll most likely try to expand to get near you, then follow their colony pods at a distance and when they just founded a city you can conquer it and gain some credits, and the alien will lose a pod

Oh, yes, the ogre. After you do it sometimes they'll get feud on you, and send their ogre... "oh-oh", as it would say my ICQ. Time to get that laser infantry(or better WEAPON) with that synth infantry(or better ARMOR) to work.

Wait until the ogre is out the fugus squares(defensive bonus) and attack it with the infantry unit. Oh, he died(surprise, surprise!), but its goal was really to weaken the ogre. Now comes the real "attack". Keep the synth in a fungus square in the way of the ogre(so he attack you). Defensive bonus rules the day: if you don't kill it you'll be almost anyway, so when it attack any base of yours he'll be easily disposed of.

I'm in transcend level and it worked just fine. I'm Angels.

The most important thing against aliens early game is morale. Explore fungus, combat worms and get your morale to boost before combat, even against caretakers you'll see a big difference

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Long live THE HIVE!

[Earwicker]

Both alien factions, though strong at first, are hampered by the same lack of military strategy that puts the campaigns of other AI factions in peril: scattered attacks. If Marr waited to send out his precious ogre until he had some more rovers or better weapons to back it up, that would spell trouble. Instead, he rushes off to war and loses his best and brightest to Jokka's beautiful rope-a-dope strategy.

To some extent, I like having the aliens nearby (but not tooooo nearby) because I know vendetta is on its way: hunker down against the attack, and prepare to steal the tech for 3-res armor (leaving me free to go for build/explore techs and beat their green units with worms).

Speaking of precious ogres, will capturing a base with one heal their damage like it will other units? When I get ahold of these, I keep 'em put as defenders/ police instead of not-very-mobile attackers.

[Kuciwalker]

What Aliens?

I tried the tactic of lying low, until I have 6 units of 4x-3-1 and 4 units 4x-1-2. All veteran, thanks to command centres and monoliths. I gave in to all their demands until i was ready, then I sent an invasion party, spearheaded by two foil probes, and 4 impact foils for artillery.

All ten ground units perished to 4 commando impact rovers and two boil mindwoms, an impact infantry and a spore launcher. Two of the impact foils were sunk by a veteran 3-res impact foil. The foil probes were all compromised.

Final tally, two impact foils of mine remaining, 4 of their units gone, their city population down by 3.

I HATE THESE ALIENS!!!!!! ARGHHHHHHH!!!!

Then there waas this other tactic of enslaving the other humans first, since they're easy targets, with synthmetal at best. But this didn't work either, cause in a game where i tried this tactic, it left marrfree to pick on the pieces of what's left of my victims and ICS across a continent encircling the north pole. In the end, while all the other humans were 1/4 my might, I was 1/4 marr's might.

Damned aliens.

F.Y.I. this all happened on trancend level, blind research, the Pirates.

[Earwicker]

quote: Originally posted by Jokka das Trevas on 04-09-2001 12:33 PM No, Ogres can't regenerate in any fashion - even conquering a base with an ogre won't regain its health. Thanks God, I think!

I suspected as much, and agree with you on the Thanks part -- it's bad enough to see one heading your way early in the game. Knowing it will be like the terminator, constantly rejuvenated, is another fear entirely.

[Jokka das Trevas]

Oh, yeah... I forgot to say that foil's artillery is important to weak the units you'll attack... I hope you had attacked the SENSORS around the alien cities too.

In my post I kept myself to the ogre, but I did other things as well against the Caretakers.

I kept one probe foil and a regular probe team striking at the first base I could reach, creating drone revolts - so the alien can't build more units and will keep trying to get recreation facilities. Why two probes? Simple. One will cause drone riots and another will go for saboutage missions(after all you can't afford the damn alien to build/rebuild rec tanks - wich you had destroyed in earlier saboutage - and rec. facities, no?). Destroying the rec. tanks will ocasionally take the alien city to shrink its population(if it is greater or equal to 4) or turn it difficult for it to develop itself. If you can afford a breach in the covert ops, steal a tech as well...

I've managed to keep the Caretakers at two bases only, without constant attacks(except by the "rogue colony pod ambushes"). In fact, I did mind-controlled two of the colony pods and built cities for myself hehehe But since I'm Angels they got a discount on probe actions, it's better you just keep destroying them.

I've probed a 3-res garrison too for that matter(I didn't had 3-res tech yet), so I kept it always on the same square as my impact infantry attackers so they don't get screwed up. I think that even if you're not angels, probe a 3-res is a good investment for that reason

IMHO, you should NOT be submissive to them. Each time you give them a tech or money, you make them stronger and thougher to defeat.
Remember that they already have far too good advantages, and they don't need to go into tech and money lead. Aside their advantages, they're as unresourceful early game as you do(to a lesser degree maybe, but they are).

As I said: keep a garrison in a chokepoint fungus square. If possible, by any means spare a sensor nearby this garrison, and near you frontier cities as well... Don't mind expanding too much, if alien scum woop your ass all your 15 early cities go boom anyway. 4 cities was plenty for me until I kicked H'minee from my continent(the ^$#%^$@ scaped and made to a random continent, this is not over :P). I hadn't even 3-res yet, but I had impact. Oh, I didn't use nerve gas too, but I missed it - I would be much more successful if I did.

I dunno how you got 10 impact units wooped, I did H'minee with 5(2 impact infantry, 1 impact rover , 1 synthmetal for a dire need and the probed 3-res garrison). Don't forget the probed 3-res garrison also can afford a good morale to help it hold its defenses

Simple as that: use rovers against units in open terrain(not bases or fungus) for a 25% plus attack rate. Use infantry against bases for 25% plus attack rate also. DESTROY ANY SENSORS BEFORE INVADING A BASE, and if possible before even engaging combat in enemy territory(it does not matter if its against an ogre or a former - a caretaker former near a sensor can get your impact infantry unit into 75% its health! And what you destroyed? A damn former! hehehehe)! Keep the frontline units in the same square as the 3-res garrison, if possible in fungus or bunkers. Keep your synthmetal and half your impact units in a square separated of the 3-res, for should this unit die all units will take damage(including the synth garrison, wich turns it to garbage if damaged before combat)

Against psi-worms - attack first, by all means. Psi-combat always give a good edge to the attacker. If a unit is beyond half-damage, back off ONLY THIS UNIT(of course) and restore it to full health in nearest base or monolith(I didn't had that luck, but if you do then the own aliens may have one monolith standing by its cities... )

But, in the end, if you're pirates you'll have to wish hard that the nearby alien comes up to "born" in a thin part of a continent, so you can garrison the choke point and prevents it from expanding - because you're not really into the continent...

If you don't, avoid even the initial contact, develop yourself. Even better, I never tried it in early game against aliens but it works quite well in human factions, and it can do good: do a land colony pod to raise a city in the alien continent (give it a good distance so "someone" can grow this city and some more...), and instantly give it to the thoughest human faction you came into contact until now!

Result: the aliens will attack them and they'll get feud(you didn't needed even to ask the "ally" to declare war on the aliens! hehehe). Then 3 things can occur...

They'll either hold off the alien progress for a time and die, or then fight and come to peace or truce(probe the aliens and frame the faction, if it's the case, but keep them fighting - and don't ask the "ally" for the war, it'll get yourself into it. But if it demands that you declare vendetta on the alien, do it. You're in the sea and all land-based factions favor war in land rather than water, and if you do not REALLY attack them they'll do the same to you), or then they'll kill the aliens(hopefully the faction will be easier to shake off, weakened by the alien war maybe?).

Or then, better yet: if you already encountered the another alien faction, give this land base to them! Then surely will be a war, each other will be aware of its hatred's positions, and only one will prevail(weakened by the war), and you should be ready for the challenge until then And sure, try to keep good terms with the alien that is the nearest of your bases

If you feel necessary, help the fellow human faction to win over the alien, but only if the human faction is getting its butt REAL kicked - or else you will ease its conquest of the continent and you got a though opponent to fight later...

Rules of "Big Brother" strategy:
1) Never get officially involved in a manipulated war you got between two factions(i.e: neither ask them for war on another nor provoke them, let them create the war themselves. Use probe/frame in the least circunstances, as it got chances to creep it out and both factions will get on YOU)
2) If one of the sides push on you for support in this war, consider:
a) how near they are from you.
b) The demanding faction's possibility of an alliance(pact) with you.

You should balance the present terms. For example, if the demanding faction is a dubious candidate for a pact brother and is pretty far from you on the map(but near the another faction), declare war on him and try to get favor on the another faction. You almost surely won't be attacked(because of the distance, and the IA wars focus on the nearest opponents - a wise thing to do) and will get trade bonuses, trade techs and whatsoever with your pact brother...

3) When a "manipulated war" comes to a defeat of a faction, consider the loyalty and militar power the winning faction have! If a powerful opponent is just born, kill it on its cradle! Commonly the winning faction will be a little weakened by the recent war, but be careful as it should have lots of units already, and some maybe by elite status. You must get ready for war before the "manipulated one" comes out.

Sounds like Machiavelli, but it sure works!

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Long live THE HIVE!

[knowhow2]

Come on now!

The Aliens is easy to kill with HEC. Okey.... maybe you also need DAP. But with these both tech then the Aliens will go down!

Example: I played a game, turn 2210, Marr had 26 bases, I had 15. He got nasty with me, I build an army of nerve gas needlejets (12) and sent then in. 15 turns later he had 8 bases left and where on th verge of being totally annihilated....

[Jokka das Trevas]

No, Ogres can't regenerate in any fashion - even conquering a base with an ogre won't regain its health. Thanks God, I think!

Skywalker, these aliens are present in the SMAC expansion, Alien Crossfire...

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Long live THE HIVE!

[Paul Vella]

This thought cam eto me while I was playing alien crossfire. You ally (not pact) yourself with one alien faction to stomp out the other. The other alien faction is almost dead and offers to surrender. You accept, thereofore they must sevre you.
Then you attack the other aliens which you had just faught alongside. You have High Energy Chemistry so they go down pretty quickly. However, the other alien faction also offers you there defeat and they swear to obey you.
Now you have BOTH alien factions at your feet. They BOTH MUST obey you, it's the rules. So then can you tell them to call the vendetta of each other?

[Iskandar Reza]

quote: Originally posted by knowhow2 on 04-09-2001 10:08 PM Come on now! The Aliens is easy to kill with HEC. Okey.... maybe you also need DAP. But with these both tech then the Aliens will go down! Example: I played a game, turn 2210, Marr had 26 bases, I had 15. He got nasty with me, I build an army of nerve gas needlejets (12) and sent then in. 15 turns later he had 8 bases left and where on th verge of being totally annihilated....

Sure, with air power, I don't even need nerve gas, soporific gas pods will suffice(after battling the aliens, the survivors can go on to the humans, so it's not a wasted ability), but remember, i'm playing blind research, and the map is standard planet, and the pirates have that inefficiency thing. even with 29 bases, i'm only getting +6 or +7 income per turn. and it's worse if i can't get social psyche, meaning my bases can only grow to size 2 before drone riots.


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Money is the key to end all your woes
Your ups and your downs, your highs and your lows
Won't you tell me last time that love bought you clothes?
It's like that, and that's the way it is

[Iskandar Reza]

strange, all my previous post under the previous nick shows that i live all over the globe. hmmm....

[Skanderbeg]

quote: Originally posted by Paul Vella on 04-10-2001 02:13 AM This thought cam eto me while I was playing alien crossfire. You ally (not pact) yourself with one alien faction to stomp out the other. The other alien faction is almost dead and offers to surrender. You accept, thereofore they must sevre you. Then you attack the other aliens which you had just faught alongside. You have High Energy Chemistry so they go down pretty quickly. However, the other alien faction also offers you there defeat and they swear to obey you. Now you have BOTH alien factions at your feet. They BOTH MUST obey you, it's the rules. So then can you tell them to call the vendetta of each other?

This will not work, if You nerve-gas an alien faction. If You use nerve gas then they will NEVER surrender.
And even if You don't use nerve gase, I doubt if they would surrender, if You are pacted in some form with the other Alien faction.

[Iskandar Reza]

So, basically what I should do is lay low, use whatever tech I have to execute hit and runs on their non-combatants, and play with the fungus??

[Cybergod]

Another tactic (4 data angels)

probe the aliens and steal their all their special techs (4 instance Ma'ar's techs are Progenitor Psych, Centauri Ecology, Field Modulation, Applied Physics, Biogenetics!!!). No just humbly research your way into impact weapons and you'll win .

[Jokka das Trevas]

Yeah, tech stealing is good but it's adviseable that you run for tech once for each city the alien has, as your chances will drop low if you try to steal tech from a already stolen base(and will most likely lose your probe). You can save/reload until it does it ight but's cheesy, and can't be done in ironman.

As for my play I had contained the Caretaker to 2 cities only, only 2 techs were stolen - I wouldn't risk my precious probes that might me doing something harmful...

I'm still in the tech lead, alas. One good thing for transcend level I just discovered is that artifacts are better used to speed up SP than to discover new techs - you'll be better out in the end.

I have question, afterall: does the difficulty level plays any part on the final score(I know Ironman rules does, but transcendi gets more points than citizen?)

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Long live THE HIVE!

[Iskandar Reza]

quote: Originally posted by Jokka das Trevas on 04-10-2001 03:16 PM ... As for my play I had contained the Caretaker to 2 cities only, only 2 techs were stolen - I wouldn't risk my precious probes that might me doing something harmful... ...

Which brings up another question: How long before the city can be probed for tech steal again? In the meantime you can drain energy credits (i find this usefull in wars that have dragged too long that i'm strapped for cash, since i usually build trained troops and upgrade them)

[RedFred]

ILT, I didn't realise that you were playing Pirates. That faction has unique challenges and advantages. The advantage is that you have much less worry about an early game wipeout in the hands of the Aliens. You should be more than a match for them on the open sea. The disadvantage with the Pirates is getting enough minerals in the early game. I am guessing that your invasion failed because you were outgunned and also because you were forced to an amphibious assault.

There are different strategies for playing the Pirates, my favourite is to build a transport ship right away and then build a few (land) colony pods next and claim some nearby land. This will allow you to have some high mineral production cities that can crank out military units if need be. If you share a continent with your enemy these land bases will be valuable staging areas for your attacks. Pactmate's cities are also handy for this purpose.

If your enemy is on an island or continent where you have no cities, try to limit your assault to one or two vulnerable cities. Once you have a couple bases, even the tiny size ones that you get when you take over an alien's city, your full scale invasion later on will be that much easier.

[Iskandar Reza]

Yes!!! I did it!!! I eliminated both alien buggers!! wahahahahahah!!!!!!!!


Thanks all for the wonderfull sugestions, thanks personally to Redfred for the land colonies as war factories suggestion. And to Jokka for the fungus ambush/colony pod ambush tactic.

And thank you all for showing me how to destroy their cities without obliterating them (gas em out of existence!! )

My initial invasion force, whose purpose was to push the caretakers further away from my colonies were 4 X impact rovers and 2 4x-3r-1 infantry. Did massive dammage and pushed them far to the north (the whole planet was one giant continent with one giant ocean at the south, and a unity wreckage peninsular (where I was)

I'm so happy!!! wahahawhshahawhahwah!!!!!