Military Strengths - Page 7

Urban Ranger · April 30, 2003, 00:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack_www
THe US navy has 12, I am twice the size of USA, so I have twice the carriers. What is the big deal?

500 AEGIS cruisers?

Anyway, these numbers have more to do with your position than size of population. The US has lots of CV's because it wants to be a global policeman. There's no point of having any if you are content to be a regional power.

Jack_www · April 30, 2003, 01:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

500 AEGIS cruisers?

Anyway, these numbers have more to do with your position than size of population. The US has lots of CV's because it wants to be a global policeman. There's no point of having any if you are content to be a regional power.

I fixed the curisers, but I need the aircraft carriers. Nation States is full of warmongers, nations that devote themselve purely to war. As I said before we take the offensive, and I have been gaining friends in other regions all over the world, and those aircraft carriers help a lot.

Urban Ranger · May 2, 2003, 05:17

Sheep,

I think that Sheepsta has way too big a fleet. Considering that even Jackson has been cutting back, and it's a much bigger nation than Sheepsta. I know it's all RP, but you have to be a bit more realistic. Your airforce is quite unbelievable too.

Archaic · May 3, 2003, 00:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Sheep,

I think that Sheepsta has way too big a fleet. Considering that even Jackson has been cutting back, and it's a much bigger nation than Sheepsta. I know it's all RP, but you have to be a bit more realistic. Your airforce is quite unbelievable too.

Agreed. At last count, Alecrast was the 10th biggest military in Apolyton according to NS, while Sheepsta was around the 50th. The force sizes you are creating here are unreasonable.

Archaic · May 3, 2003, 11:20

Just took a quick read through the stats for Jackson, and I'm starting to feel that, while the troop numbers are fine, the equipment numbers, especially as far as the navy goes, are rather inflated.

Drogue · May 3, 2003, 13:09

Possibly, and I think Jacksons 59% of GDP for defence is extrondinarily inflated, but he does have a high military. Hwever jack, you do know that high would be anything over 4%. Akiria was #2 in per capita defence spending, and is 6.5% of GDP, Wine was #1 (IIRC) and has 8% (doesn't quite work, but let's be a little liberal with it). I don't think it could be much higher than 10-15%, and that would be 2-3 times US per capita, which would be enormous in itself. I accept it would be high though.

DarkCloud · May 3, 2003, 16:50

Hmm... consider this- the USSR in peacetime 3 years after WWII only had 3 million in armed forces for their nation of 250 million... and remember, they were going bankrupt to keep up those numbers

1% is a large expenditure for military- that money could better be used for economic development. a nation that is based upon military expenditures in the present, cannot grow economically in the future unless they take over large chunks of land and inservitude the losers.

Archaic · May 3, 2003, 21:19

Also, IIRC, Jackson had a smaller military than mine the last time Nationstates made a ranking also. I've got what, 10 carriers? Something like that? Both the spending figures and his force numbers are way out of wack with what the people on the NS boards would find acceptable, which is an important fact considering he's probably going to draw us into an inter-regional war.

Jack_www · May 3, 2003, 21:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Archaic
Also, IIRC, Jackson had a smaller military than mine the last time Nationstates made a ranking also. I've got what, 10 carriers? Something like that? Both the spending figures and his force numbers are way out of wack with what the people on the NS boards would find acceptable, which is an important fact considering he's probably going to draw us into an inter-regional war.

First that was defense forces, and I was way up there too on the list. I will just let my population grow and not increase my stats, but I have defense as the only thing the government spends money on, and of course Education and space exploration.

You guys like to really analize everything.

Archaic · May 4, 2003, 03:20

Well no **** sherlock. ;P

Jack_www · May 5, 2003, 13:51

Can all acitive nations post in the new ranking thread, then I can post a list of the entire regions millitary stats. So far I think we have 8, so just a few more left I think.

Archaic · May 13, 2003, 07:51

*Points to Sheeps new stats in the new thread* Anyone want to tell him how insane his numbers are?

Mr. President · May 13, 2003, 18:49

Anyone wanna tell about half the people who posted how insane their numbers are?

Archaic · May 13, 2003, 22:42

Heh. Indeed. Anyone have the URL for that big rant about military relative to economy and population that was posted on the NS forums?

Jack_www · May 13, 2003, 23:55

Well I hope mine is not too much, but I am 14th for per capita on defense. Anyways I am not going to increase my millitary for a while.

GeneralTacticus · May 14, 2003, 02:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Archaic
Heh. Indeed. Anyone have the URL for that big rant about military relative to economy and population that was posted on the NS forums?

For the third time in this thread: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13017

Archaic · May 14, 2003, 03:15

Thanks GT.

Sheep · May 14, 2003, 03:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Archaic
*Points to Sheeps new stats in the new thread* Anyone want to tell him how insane his numbers are?

Archaic, perhaps you have missed the fact that thats allmy nations. Even so it is no more than what Alecrast has to proportion. Perhaps you should be thinking seriously before youtry and stir more shite up. I am getting tired of your childish antics.

Archaic · May 14, 2003, 03:25

Bullshit Sheep. Your military strengths are not on the same proportion as mine are. For New Sheepsta & Jobepet, you've got around 10 million people in the army, or one in every thirty five or so; that means around 7.5% of your workforce. In proportion to their populations, and to the strength of their economies, these are by far insane numbers.

As for stirring up ****, if you keep posting obviously insane numbers, of course I'm going to point it out, and that's not childish. I'm not picking on you Sheep, it's just that you're more blantant than everyone about it.

Sheep · May 14, 2003, 03:27

Is that so. Well when a nation such as Sheepsta has a neighbour whom thinks they can say that they are not a soverign nation and has occupied the nation before, the government would be stupid not to spend so much on the armed forces.

Besides remember I have a socialist economy. I don't need use money to fund my works as the government owns everything.

Archaic · May 14, 2003, 03:48

Sheep, look at the military rankings today. You spend less of your GDP on military by percentages than I do on mine, and I have a much bigger GDP than you do to boot. And having a socialist economy makes no difference to that. You don't have enough resources (labour, capital or physical inputs) to surpass me.

EDIT: Oh, and BTW. I consider your comment about the government owning everything as an admission that you nationalized the industry, including the Alecrast and Bulbagarden companies which are suing you. Thanks for that.

Sheep · May 14, 2003, 03:58

Sue all you want, you wont get anything because as far as Sheepsta is concerned the Alecrastian occupation was illegal and that the Sheepstan law of no private enterprise shallbe upheld, which not only was in place before your occupation but in effect as well.

Perhaps next time the companies should reconsider their investments.

Archaic · May 14, 2003, 04:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
Sue all you want, you wont get anything because as far as Sheepsta is concerned the Alecrastian occupation was illegal and that the Sheepstan law of no private enterprise shallbe upheld, which not only was in place before your occupation but in effect as well.

The United States of Sheepsta allowed private enterprise, only the Holy Empire of Sheepsta didn't. You lose there. You stole private Property Sheep, and it amazes me that you don't see something wrong with that.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
Perhaps next time the companies should reconsider their investments.

They fully expected that Alecrast, with the Minister for Defence being the CEO of Nukes4U, would invade "New Sheepsta" and never let anything like that come to pass. It was a very sound investment, and only some of the most unlikely circumstances made it bottom out in the end.

Sheep · May 14, 2003, 05:25

Ahhh, I stole private property. Two things, one I should know my nation better than you, and I do. Two what about when you stole my nation.

As for your invasion plan. Any attempt to even come within 50miles of the island, would result in a full nuclear war destroying us both and most of the region with us. Now do you really want to push the elected President of Sheepsta, because he starting to get really pissed off!

Archaic · May 14, 2003, 05:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
Ahhh, I stole private property. Two things, one I should know my nation better than you, and I do. Two what about when you stole my nation.

1) You should, but you don't seem to, because the United States of Sheepsta clearly allowed Private Industry

2) I never stole your nation Sheep. It got deleted, and then I used the island of Sheepsta (Which was no longer yours) for my own RP purposes. Though what relevance this has to the point at hand is beyond me. Even if I had "stolen" it, that's a very different thing to you stealing private property from firms in game (Firms which came from MANY countries BTW, not just Alecrast.)

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
As for your invasion plan. Any attempt to even come within 50miles of the island, would result in a full nuclear war destroying us both and most of the region with us. Now do you really want to push the elected President of Sheepsta, because he starting to get really pissed off!

Now I know what your problem is. You never read what I post, you only skim and read what you want to read. There are no invasion plans Sheep. Read the post again. I said that the businesses had fully expected that we would invade THEN. ie. Before you could even get the court involved back then.

And as for your pitiful threats......HA! Like your nukes could get through my ABM system. And I fail to see how it'd destroy the region unless you were firing them at other nations. You're the one pushing things Sheep. Your military is pitiful compared to Alecrasts in everything except your head. The stats you released are way out of line, both for Sheepsta and the rest of your nations. Sad fact you need to face up to. Alecrast alone could conquer your entire alliance if it wanted to. Don't push it, or it might just decide to remove these dangerous dictators from its borders.....

Sheep · May 14, 2003, 05:58

1/ THE UNITED STATES OF SHEEPSTA DID NOT ALLOW PRIVATE ENTERRISE. I KNOW. I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO PROVE THAT IT DID EVERYDAY UP UNTIL IT LEFT THE NS SERVERS< WHATS THAT? YOU CAN"T? WHAT A BLOODY SHAME!

2/ I was merely stating that i you tried anything so foolish or enact any plancs you do have you would be destroyed.

Archaic · May 14, 2003, 06:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
1/ THE UNITED STATES OF SHEEPSTA DID NOT ALLOW PRIVATE ENTERRISE. I KNOW. I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO PROVE THAT IT DID EVERYDAY UP UNTIL IT LEFT THE NS SERVERS< WHATS THAT? YOU CAN"T? WHAT A BLOODY SHAME!

[OOC]
Apparently you think resorting to all caps, blatant lies, and manifest absurdities will help you win the argument rather than just make you look like an idiot. The burden of proof is upon you Sheep to prove that they didn't, even though they were a Left-Leaning College State (For the Americians, when they say "Left" in this, they're refering to those wanting greater civil liberties, not any economic issues) or Inoffensive Centrist Democracy for most of that time, neither of which are inheriently socialist forms of government.
[/OOC]

Quote:

[SIZE=1] Originally posted
2/ I was merely stating that i you tried anything so foolish or enact any plancs you do have you would be destroyed.

[OOC]
Or rather, that Sheepsta would *try* to destroy me. Which it wouldn't be able to. And bullshit. You made those statements as if those plans were current, and we both know it. Your first language is English, you have no excuses.
[/OOC]

Sheep · May 14, 2003, 06:15

Dude, no youmade the accustaion, last time I looked in our counrty that means youhave to prove your allegation. you cannot. Therefore Private Enterprise was never allowed in my nation. And off the record, even if it wasn'mentioned in NS, which it was, I could say I passed the law in RP and you would still have to work with it.

Archaic · May 14, 2003, 06:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
Dude, no youmade the accustaion, last time I looked in our counrty that means youhave to prove your allegation. you cannot. Therefore Private Enterprise was never allowed in my nation.

[OOC]
I'm not the one saying manifest absurdities Sheep. Though I don't even need to prove it now that I consider things. It was allowed under the protectorates, and none of us deny that. Check how long that saga went on for in RL, then compare that to how long we consider a day in RL to be in RP. More than enough years Sheep (Indeed, it's over a decade), and the government was considered legitimate by the court, even though you like to conventiently ignore the fact, such as you did earlier, again calling it an "illegal occupation" when it was neither illegal (The courts only ordered another election. If the protectorates were illegal and illigitimate, they would have just been kicked out), nor an occupation (I stated they were protectorates, therefore as far as RP is concerned, they are. Remember, the only military I had in there was standing on the New Sheepsta border repelling your weak attacks).
[/OOC]

Quote:

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Sheep
And off the record, even if it wasn'mentioned in NS, which it was, I could say I passed the law in RP and you would still have to work with it.

[OOC]
Nope. If you say you passed the law in RP but NS still said that's not the case, then in RP, as far as everyone else should be concerned, you're lying.
[/OOC]

Mr. President · May 14, 2003, 07:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
Is that so. Well when a nation such as Sheepsta has a neighbour whom thinks they can say that they are not a soverign nation and has occupied the nation before, the government would be stupid not to spend so much on the armed forces.

That's as may be, but a country that tried to maintain such a gigantically out-of-proportion army would collapse. Quite promptly.

Quote:

Besides remember I have a socialist economy. I don't need use money to fund my works as the government owns everything.

I'm not sure that would do it.

And even socialist economies use money.