Military Strengths - Page 8

Giovanni Wine · May 14, 2003, 09:29

I must agree many military stats are way off, I hope you guys were not refering to me, after all I'm 13th in Defence Per Capita spending and my economy level generally goes up and down between All-Consuming and Powerhouse.

If you were instead refering to m as well, tell me where you think I exaggerated and I'll reduce that branch.

P.S.
Sheep, I do agree with Archaich your military is a bit too much, espacially considering your nations are rather young, and that you have just got out from an occupation by another country, therefore you had to rebuild your military from scratches in there.

Please be reasonable my friend, you are asking too much from your country, if you continue like this it will collaspe in a very short time.

Saluti

Urban Ranger · May 14, 2003, 12:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Archaic
*Points to Sheeps new stats in the new thread* Anyone want to tell him how insane his numbers are?

I thought his navy is implausibly large. Haven't checked the rest of the numbers, though

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):100,500

Marine carriers(holds troops, helicopters airplanes and landing craft): 80
Destoryers: 90(for grauding aircraft carriers, but the carriers are not that big)
Attack Helicopters: 800
Transport Helocpters : 515

Fighters: 10,000
Fighter/bombers: 5,000
Ground-Attack Aircraft: 3,000
Attack Helicopters: 10,000
Trasport Helicopters: 8,000
Rescue Helicopters: 7,000
Slealth Bombers: 50
Air Fuel Tankers:90 (able to refuel planes in flight)
Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20
Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70

Air Craft Carriers : 25
Naval Aircraft: 4,000
AEGIS Cruisers: 400
AEGIS Destroyers: 100
Missle Cruisers: 75
Missle Destroyers: 75
(Nuclear Missle) Subs: 30
Attack Subs: 130
Transport ships: 5,000
Gun boats(mainly used close to coast and rivers): 3000
Coast Guard Patroll boats: 1,000

Most of the numbers I found excessive. I would like to know how Sheepsta got a bigger military force than the US?

Drogue · May 14, 2003, 14:42

I have the biggest per capita military, and the largest nation. Mine might be too low, sicne other nations in RP have got higher per capita spending than me, which the game states cannot be true.

Archaic · May 14, 2003, 20:44

Are you sure that they have higher per-capita spending? Which nations exactly? By both RP and the statistics, I have the arguably the largest economy in the region, so if you're talking about me, that could account for some of it.

Sheep · May 15, 2003, 01:13

Urban I am currently reviewing these.
Goivanni, Yes indeed however New Sheepsta, has been around for a while now, and the very fact that half the nation was occupied and the fact New Sheepsta is always geared for a war with the potential enemy that Alecrast is, is reason ernough for the dissportinal size of the military. When someone threatens your existence you must take every step possible to deter their motives.

Archaic · May 15, 2003, 02:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
Urban I am currently reviewing these.
Goivanni, Yes indeed however New Sheepsta, has been around for a while now,

Not long enough for an army of that size.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
and the very fact that half the nation was occupied

1) Godmod. It was 7/8th. Firing Ignore Cannons!

2) Godmod. It was not an occupation. Alecrast troops were only ever deployed to protect the borders of the protectorates once "New Sheepsta" rose up, and in the initial administration changeover phase to eliminate the groups loyal to Cardinal Ew. Firing Ignore Cannons!

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
and the fact New Sheepsta is always geared for a war with the potential enemy that Alecrast is, is reason ernough for the dissportinal size of the military.

It's reason enough to maintain the largest possible armed forces you can maintain. However, your armed forces are too large and too well equipped (In terms of weapons and weapons platforms (ie. Tanks, etc, Naval Vessels and Aircraft, etc) to be maintained by an economy and a population the size of Sheepsta's!

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
When someone threatens your existence you must take every step possible to deter their motives.

Exactly our point. You've gone beyond taking every step possible and tried to take impossible steps.

Mr. President · May 15, 2003, 02:39

But the problem is that a military buildup against Alecrast would trigger a military buildup by Alecrast, and by the Treaty of Fonseca, and by other nearby nations like Karakas that are closely affiliated with Alecrast. In other words, an arms race.

Considering that most of those nations are capitalist paradises, would Sheepsta and its allies have the resources to keep up such a race without the bottom falling out of their economies?

Sheep · May 15, 2003, 02:40

Ahh but you forget my friend. I have friends in this region and others who can supply me with weapons. Under Lend-Lease agreements. Also the Dominion of Jobedpet where the government of Sheepsta retired to.

Also what you call 'protection' I call 'occupation' As I am Sheepsta and you are not, my views on the subject count for more than yours. The protectorates of North and South Sheepsta was a thinly veiled attempt to legitimase your annexation measures.

Sheep · May 15, 2003, 02:42

and also I have statred that with all my numbers, I am redifining them as I get the chance, top make them more realistic. You may of missed that post, in you blind fury to try and show me up? yes?

Urban Ranger · May 15, 2003, 22:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
Ahh but you forget my friend. I have friends in this region and others who can supply me with weapons. Under Lend-Lease agreements. Also the Dominion of Jobedpet where the government of Sheepsta retired to.

Maybe so, but you still have to be a bit more realistic, taking your population and economy into account. Since Sheepsta is right next to the Dominion of Noosland, we are gravely concerned.

Sheep · May 16, 2003, 03:01

and the other thing I forgot to mention is that by the tiome you started to accuse me of this I had already redifined the numbers. perhaps you need to look again?

Archaic · May 16, 2003, 04:29

You mean these excuses for numbers that you posted yesterday? Still too high!

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
The Treaty of Mt. Gravatt

The Unified States of Sheepsta and the Dominion of Jobepet

Population: 290 million and 50 million in the Dominion.
Capitals: Chopsu, SCT and Port Gitsham, Dominion of Jobedpet.

Army
--------------------
Troops: 2,000,000
Reserves (work other jobs can be calledup in wartime) every males between 16 - 40.
Paratroopers: 500,000
Spec/Ops: 100,000
Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):100,500
Tank Crews: 370,000
Moblie Anti Aircraft missle jeeps: 100,000
APC: 200,000
Self propelled Artillery: 23,000
Rocket Artillery: 10,000
Jeeps and other support trucks: 700,472
Support Troops: 700,000

Marines
-------------------
Troops: 1,000,000
Marine carriers(holds troops, helicopters airplanes and landing craft): 80
Destoryers: 90(for grauding aircraft carriers, but the carriers are not that big)
Attack Helicopters: 800
Transport Helocpters : 515

Airforce:
-----------------------
Pilots: 104,000
Reverses: 600,000
Support Crew: 300,000
Fighters: 9,000
Fighter/bombers: 5,000
Ground-Attack Aircraft: 3,000
Heavy Bombers(B-52): 100
Attack Helicopters: 9,000
Trasport Helicopters: 5,000
Rescue Helicopters: 7,000
Slealth Bombers: 50
Air Transport Planes: 100
Air Fuel Tankers:90 (able to refuel planes in flight)
Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20
Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70

Navy:
----------------------
Sailors: 600,000
Reverses: 300,000
Support Crew: 400,000
Air Craft Carriers : 10
Naval Aircraft: 4,000
AEGIS Cruisers: 125
AEGIS Destroyers: 50
Missle Cruisers: 75
Missle Destroyers: 75
(Nuclear Missle) Subs: Classified
Attack Subs: 50
Transport ships: 5,000
Gun boats(mainly used close to coast and rivers): 3000
Coast Guard Patroll boats: 1,000
(Note all subs and carriers are powered by nuclear power)

Startegic Forces:
---------------------
Nuclear Warheads: classified
Nuclear Bombs: c;lassified
ICBMs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Nuclear Missles on Missle Subs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Tatical Nuclear Weapons(Used by Army): Classified
Biological Warheads: Classified
Chemcial Warheads: Classified

The Confederacy of New Griffith

Population: 356 million
Capital: Nathan

Army
--------------------
Troops: 3,000,000
Reservists(Work other jobs,payed 10,000 extra a year.): 3,500,000
Paratroopers: 1,000,000
Spec/Ops: 100,000
Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):100,500
Tank Crews: 370,000
Moblie Anti Aircraft missle jeeps: 100,000
APC: 200,000
Self propelled Artillery: 23,000
Rocket Artillery: 10,000
Jeeps and other support trucks: 700,472
Support Troops: 700,000

Confederate Spec Ops.
-------------------
Troops: 1,500,000
Attack Helicopters: 3,564
Transport Helocpters : 515

Airforce:
-----------------------
Pilots: 50,000
Reverses: 600,000
Support Crew: 300,000
Fighters: 10,000
Fighter/bombers: 10,000
Ground-Attack Aircraft: 6,000
Heavy Bombers(B-52): 200
Attack Helicopters: 10,000
Trasport Helicopters: 8,000
Rescue Helicopters: 7,000
Slealth Bombers: 50
Air Transport Planes: 100
Air Fuel Tankers:90 (able to refuel planes in flight)
Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20
Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70

Startegic Forces:
---------------------
Nuclear Warheads: classified
Nuclear Bombs: classified
ICBMs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Nuclear Missles on Missle Subs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Tatical Nuclear Weapons(Used by Army): Classified
Biological Warheads: Classified
Chemcial Warheads: Classified

Democratic State of Neveria

Population: 36 million
Capital: Tortilla

Army
--------------------
Troops: 1,000,000
National Guard(reserves, not on full pay): 500,000
Paratroopers: 50,000
Spec/Ops: 10,000
Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):1,500
Tank Crews: 3,000
Moblie Anti Aircraft missle jeeps: 1,000
APC: 2,000
Self propelled Artillery: 2,000
Rocket Artillery: 1,000
Jeeps and other support trucks: 70,472
Support Troops: 70,000

Marines
-------------------
Troops: 500,000
Reverses: 100,000
Marine carriers(holds troops, helicopters airplanes and landing craft): 8
Destoryers: 9
Attack Helicopters: 80
Transport Helocpters : 55

Airforce:
-----------------------
Pilots: 20,000
Reverses: 30,000
Support Crew: 300,000
Fighters: 5,000
Fighter/bombers: 5,000
Ground-Attack Aircraft: 1,000
Heavy Bombers(B-52): 20
Attack Helicopters: 4,000
Trasport Helicopters: 2,000
Rescue Helicopters: 1,000
Slealth Bombers: 5
Air Transport Planes: 100
Air Fuel Tankers: 30 (able to refuel planes in flight)
Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20
Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70

Navy:
----------------------
Sailors: 100,000
Reverses: 300,000
Support Crew: 400,000
Air Craft Carriers : none
Naval Aircraft: 1,000
AEGIS Cruisers: 20
AEGIS Destroyers: 10
Missle Cruisers: 30
Missle Destroyers: 13
(Nuclear Missle) Subs: 6
Attack Subs: 15
Transport ships: 1,000
Gun boats(mainly used close to coast and rivers): 1,000
Coast Guard Patroll boats: 500
(Note all subs and carriers are powered by nuclear power)

Startegic Forces:
---------------------
Nuclear Warheads: classified
Nuclear Bombs: c;lassified
ICBMs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Nuclear Missles on Missle Subs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Tatical Nuclear Weapons(Used by Army): Classified
Biological Warheads: Classified
Chemcial Warheads: Classified

Free Republic of Pax Sheepus
Population: 5 million
Capital: Romus Sheepus

Army
--------------------
Troops: 30,000
Paratroopers: 500
Spec/Ops: 100
Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):100
Tank Crews: 370
Moblie Anti Aircraft missle jeeps: 100
APC: 200
Self propelled Artillery: 23
Rocket Artillery: 10
Jeeps and other support trucks: 700
Support Troops: 700

Airforce:
-----------------------
Pilots: 1,000
Reverses: 6,000
Support Crew: 3,000
Fighters: 80
Fighter/bombers: 50
Ground-Attack Aircraft: 30
Heavy Bombers(B-52): 1
Attack Helicopters: 100
Trasport Helicopters: 80
Rescue Helicopters: 70
Slealth Bombers: 5
Air Transport Planes: 10
Air Fuel Tankers:9 (able to refuel planes in flight)
Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20
Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70

Navy:
----------------------
Sailors: 9,000
Reverses: 3,000
Support Crew: 4,000
Air Craft Carriers :
Naval Aircraft: 10
AEGIS Cruisers: 2
AEGIS Destroyers: 5
Missle Cruisers: 6
Missle Destroyers: 3
(Nuclear Missle) Subs: 2
Attack Subs: 10
Transport ships: 50
Gun boats(mainly used close to coast and rivers): 300
Coast Guard Patroll boats: 10
(Note all subs and carriers are powered by nuclear power)

Startegic Forces:
---------------------
Nuclear Warheads: classified
Nuclear Bombs: c;lassified
ICBMs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Nuclear Missles on Missle Subs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Tatical Nuclear Weapons(Used by Army): Classified
Biological Warheads: Classified
Chemcial Warheads: Classified

Sheep · May 16, 2003, 04:35

I beg to differ. and I am sure others will also.

Archaic · May 16, 2003, 06:00

Bullshit Sheep. To take one of the possibily more extreme examples, Neveria has over 1/36th of its entire population in the army alone!?!?! (ie. Not counting the Navy or Air Force.) If you think this is an acceptable figure, then go back to the hospital and have your head examined again.

Sheep · May 16, 2003, 06:04

I forgot to add that the populations are not updated there. Also If you forget Australia with a population of 4 million in 1900 they had an armed forces of 100,000. Work that out will ya. It would be about the same.

AND WILL YOU STOP DISPUTING EVERYTHING I DO. If someone else does I will listen, but you seem toi do just because I did it, so I am going to Ignore your objections.

Archaic · May 16, 2003, 06:13

1900 is a *VERY* different era Sheep, before military aircraft, and that accounts for a lot. No country could afford to support something of that size now, simply because of the level of tech they'd also have to support.

I dispute what you do not because it's you who are doing it Sheep, but because what you do is WRONG. A lot of other people here voiced the same objections, and you refused to listen to them either. Now read the Military thread GT posted earlier, shut up, and admit that you're wrong.

Mr. President · May 16, 2003, 20:23

By my estimations the total of those new numbers is somewhat higher than the total armed forces of North America.

Edit: Spelling and whatnot.

Sheep · May 17, 2003, 22:06

But its like 5 nations.

Archaic · May 17, 2003, 23:29

And each of those nations has more power than they can possibily support.

Sheep · May 17, 2003, 23:32

Not if you take into account their new population sizes, the level of technology and the fact that all my economies are going up, and some lucratice trade deals with civfanatica nations.

Mr. President · May 18, 2003, 04:00

*sigh* I had a feeling back when DarkCloud started this military thread that it wasn't going to work out, simply because no-one will accept any form of criticism and is always trying to one-up everyone else.

Archaic · May 18, 2003, 05:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
Not if you take into account their new population sizes, the level of technology and the fact that all my economies are going up, and some lucratice trade deals with civfanatica nations.

Bullshit. New Sheepsta is a Basket Case, and the others are bad themselves. Their populations, with the exception of New Griffith, are less than half the size of mine. And you can't make lucrative trade deals when you have nothing to trade with.

Sheep · May 18, 2003, 05:08

Careful there my friend. You don;t make any sense. I don;t really care what you think Archaic. You are a selfish idiot, and I'm suprised nobody has told you to rack off yet.

Archaic · May 18, 2003, 05:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
Careful there my friend. You don;t make any sense. I don;t really care what you think Archaic. You are a selfish idiot, and I'm suprised nobody has told you to rack off yet.

Alecrast's pop is over 700 million. New Griffith has under 400 million, New Sheepsta has under 330 million. Furthermore, like I said, New Sheepsta's economy is rated as a Basket Case. Look at the site. "Economy: Basket Case". New Griffith has "Economy: Reasonable", and that's your best one. Reasonable is below "Average" BTW.

You seem to think people are selfish idiots if they don't "let you have fun". Of course, if you weren't trying to have fun by godmodding and making impossible claims to apparently try to "win", then we wouldn't be preventing you from "having fun", would we?

Drogue · May 18, 2003, 15:39

Archaic: You also have no tax. How would you pay for the army? Volantary donations? I agree Sheep's is overstated, and with your posts on the subject, but that struck me a while ago. Any thoughts?

Whaleboy · May 18, 2003, 19:03

Forgive my inexperience with this, I would like to ask the economists among us what is a reasonable level of military spending per capita, numbers of troops as a percentage of the population, and research/development as a percentage of GDP?

Thanks!

Archaic · May 18, 2003, 19:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Drogue
Archaic: You also have no tax. How would you pay for the army? Volantary donations? I agree Sheep's is overstated, and with your posts on the subject, but that struck me a while ago. Any thoughts?

No income tax. We do have other taxation (A Goods and Services tax, or as you might know it, a Value Added Tax or VAT), though that's pretty much besides the point here except where the Foreign Legion is concerned, it being the only Alecraft force of any size to get the majority of its funding from the government. The Alecrast armed forces, including its navies and air force, are really somewhat "private armies" raised by the regional Dukes and Duchesses, various business concerns such as Nukes4U, and several of the labour unions (Such as the Union of Bikers and Truckers, which effectivly "owns" the MadBoyz Batallion. It's President it should be noted, currently sits on the Council as Minister for Transport and Regional Services), as well as the Monarch, out of their own pockets through the incomes they make with their business concerns, which work together out of interests of national cohesion and security. All the men, including those in the reserves, get paid quite handsomely for their services. And so they're not "dead weight", the Alecrast armed forces are frequently "loaned out" to other liberal and/or capitalistic nations (As a rule not to Dictators unless their citizens have both full civil and economic rights, such as with Bulbagarden) for defence, which has both given the forces field training that money simply cannot buy, and gives them a steady income that gets reinvested straight back into them.

Whaleboy · May 19, 2003, 06:04

Upon reading some of the posts, we have to concur that Sheeps armed forces do seem somewhat overstates. I dont know what is a reasonable level for troops (see my previous post), but I'm sure it could be down to an "adminstrative error" on the part of Sheep, that can be easily corrected, like the previous Marijuanian government with the *cough* overstated space programme.

How about it Sheep?

Urban Ranger · May 20, 2003, 22:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheep
I beg to differ. and I am sure others will also.

If you could come up with a plausible explanation of your military budget in terms of your national economy, I'll accept. Right now, 125 AEGIS cruisers is an impossible number.

Urban Ranger · May 20, 2003, 23:02

Quote:

Originally posted by elijah
Forgive my inexperience with this, I would like to ask the economists among us what is a reasonable level of military spending per capita, numbers of troops as a percentage of the population, and research/development as a percentage of GDP?

Thanks!

I suppose it's largely dependent, as one of the countries has (had?) the defense budget at 59% of the total budget. To me, it's a bit excessive, but hey, that's a personal choice.