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Old March 3, 2003, 04:13   #91
Scouse Gits
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OK - I'm up in this one as well as the Seriously Tricky game and next in the Nothin' Fancy - asap guys asap

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Old March 3, 2003, 06:15   #92
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Canal kibitz, part I
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Old March 3, 2003, 06:16   #93
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Canal kibitz, part II
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Old March 3, 2003, 06:29   #94
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Non-canal kibitzing
Lots to catch up on…
Quote:
Next Succession Game we could run on similar lines to this one, except that after reaching the key advances like Republic and Democracy those who wish to play in the goverment of their choice split away and attempt to beat the other group(s)
Succession and Comparison game… Me like
Quote:
Well - errrm - the gits are only using one post so no-one can accuse us of ing, but we thought you would like to join in the real dialogue of a Friday night... p.s. we are both showing off because we have a (seriously confused) friend with us - a potential SG<4>
The Gits DL TL QL Wonder has been built!

Note to prospective SG<4>: beware the rabid rodents of the Fundies dark side! The spirit of the Republic lives on!
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Old March 3, 2003, 12:41   #95
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We have Flowers, Maths, Monarchy and 150g and I have only played one turn...

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Old March 3, 2003, 12:56   #96
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So we play Fundy-lite with mass corruption and no tithes. This will not be so "boring" I think. Hope to receive instructions/ideas about how to proceed when you post the save.

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Old March 3, 2003, 23:11   #97
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Malheureusement , I fly to Frankfurt tomorrow for a trade show. Returning Sunday 09 March. Of course, if it should happen to be my turn at that point, I'll be happy to play...

But if I'm not here once SG[1] and the Bloody Monk have done their piece, please pass the torch along to La Fayette.

I have more biz travel the following week (11-16 March), too, so I ask the group's forebearance whilst I try to squeeze in a turnset somewhere along the way.

Thanx and keep the posts lively; I'll be lurking...
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Old March 4, 2003, 11:20   #98
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A Peaceful Interlude
0550 = We have too many warriors consuming shields - already in short supply due to corruption. Speak to Germans 50g, and Zulus 50g; Think long and hard about our 200 shields in Arkwright - this map would not seem to favour the Lighthouse, both the Colossus and Pyramids have attractions and the Pyramids come a close second - but it has to be Gardens - honest! Rush Couthouse in Iron Duke - not perhaps my first choice, but we are committed; Disband warrior in Newcomen into a horseman; Rush Temple in The horseman;

The Rabid Reign Commences ...

0525 = Temple in the huntsman; Courthouse in Iron Duke; Hanging Gardens in Arkwright, just in time the Persians would have had it next turn - they have switched to The Colossus, as have the Sioux; As predicted by my illustrious forebears, Arkwright celebrates with one Wizard; hut (94, 100), 50g; Germans Monarchy , Zulus Mathematics - I guess they are both broke;

Persians build Colossus - Sioux & Celts switch to Lighthouse

0500 = Ellie kills Barb horse on hill; Zulus ignore us, Germans declare war;
0475 = hut - Philosophy; Zulus & Germans war;
0450 = The Republic -> Trade; Zulus & Germans war; No way are we ready for a change of government - oedo ignored;
0425 = Zulus CF, 50g, Germans war;
0400 = Eye founded on four special site; Zulus & Germans no change;
0375 = Ellie becomes vet when Barb horseman wastes himself; Germans CF, 50g, Zulus no change; Trireme becomes vet wasting Barb King, 150g;
0350 = Courthouse in The huntsman; Temple in Hargreaves; MarketPlace in Arkwright; Arkwright starts Pyramids (Adam Smith's?); Zulus no change, Germans war; oedo ignored again;
0325 = Zulus & Germans no change;
0300 = Zulus peace, 50g, Germans no change;
0275 = Sioux build Lighthouse; Persians & Celts switch to Marco's; Zulus & Germans no change;
0250 = Eye builds Temple; Zulus & Germans war; oedo ignored;
0225 = hut - Kay; Zulus & Germans no change;

Notes to be ignored by my successor - the Settler in Arkwright is to be 'b'ed into the city to make it size 6; the diplomats in production are intended as poor man's caravans to be run to Arkwright and disbanded into the wonder of your choice; please found the city of 'Bee' to complete the trilogy - Eye, Kay, Bee; I genuinely believe that it is too early for Republic, I have built a fair amount of infrastructure, but much more is (IMO) needed; the cities of Besemer & Trevithick are Xinning on alternate turns, but Trade is still a dozen or so turns away - there is a Trireme building on the North coast somewhere - it will expose a few offshore specials and might find the Celts or Persians - both of whom have Trade - as might the South Coast Fleet (one trireme) which is moving round to make pickup on its Ellie and Dip; don't forget to tap our Zulu and German friends every turn - I reckon the Germans are good for another 50g in the next two turns; the Settler to the East of Iron Duke is intending to mine the oil.

Good luck, SG[1]
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Old March 4, 2003, 15:27   #99
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So no republic yet?

Techs left for Demo/SoL

Trade
Banking
Invention
Engineering
the Wheel (?)
Democracy


we got the gardens!
Celebrations will improve productivity enormously!
How far are we behind the AI in techs?
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Old March 4, 2003, 17:11   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by obiwan18
So no republic yet
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Old March 5, 2003, 12:14   #101
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Monk! you're up!

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Old March 5, 2003, 13:33   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Monk! you're up!

SG[1]
Steady, Steady...Settle down; if you must fire for effect, direct it towards the Poly Server that wouldn't accept a connection last night.

I read your log and I have a few questions before I begin.

1) What is the reference to Eye, Kay, Bee?? This rings no bell here.

2) Concerning Xinning...Do I remember correctly that as long as one sheaf is in the foodbox, it is safe to proceed?? Do you have the size five cities on a rotation and how much food do you accumulate before resuming the Xin in each one??

3) Arkwright is not Xinning so it can get shields for the next Wonder, right?? Trade will allow MPEmbassy which looks like the best choice, atm.

4) What kind/amount of infrastructure do you think the empire needs before revolting--to Republic?? At what size does a city need a temple in a Flower strewn Republic?? Why did you ship out an ellie on a boat from the same city??

5) Is Republic a realistic possibliity considering how many units we have invested in already which we could not then support?? There are too many units, not enough shields per city, IMHO. To say nothing about lack of temples, markets, courthouses (for corruption).

6) With Republic looking like a crippling choice, and with Fundy so far, far in the future, why did you not revolt to Monarchy?? This is clearly the most strategic question.

I did mention, when I signed on, that I might need some guidance in playing extended Despotism.

Hopefully, I can play tonight. So, please help me out by attending to these questions soonest.

Far warning to all: without timely, convincing input to the contrary, I'm thinking we should revolt to Monarchy and get on with it. What is the pay-off to waiting?? Has anyone gone to AC as a Monarchy, and if so, what was it like??

Monk

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Old March 5, 2003, 14:44   #103
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Isembard
Kingdom
Brunel

a single sheaf makes the Xin safe - I have been alternating the two cities Trevithick & Besemer IIRC

Arkwright is celebrating - hence getting Monarchy returns - my view is to grow this city as far as possible

ask a Republican - I think lots more than we have, but I know (2) feels I should have gone to Republic in my turns -- sorry - mea culpa - never even thought about which city they were from - rehome the ellie to Kay?

I don't think so - but others differ

Partly self preservation - the masses would have killed me! - partly a fond hope that we might hang on for Fundy - partly carelessness - I never truly considered it.

Hope this helps a little - this is a seriously enjoyable game - at least I found it so - here's hoping so do you

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Old March 5, 2003, 15:25   #104
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BM ... After all those early landing successes Republic will be a breeze for you

I know from your previous post that you expected [1] to form a Monarchy ... but that was a decision wisely avoided - though I'm sure the corruption must have tempted him.

This is an AC game, so use the solo formula. Grow the capital as far as possible. Research targets after Trade are Construction, (Aqueduct) Medicine (Shake's) and Sanitation (Sewer System). In Republic don't be tempted to Xin much - if at all … as the specialists you are creating are wasting much more valuable resources than the paltry ones offered in Despotism.


---------------------

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Old March 5, 2003, 16:45   #105
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@SG[1]

Thanks for your input. Everything was clear except the first bit. What is the clarification offered by... Isembard, Kingdom, Brunel?? Can't name a city if I don't know what "Bee" represents, now can I??

@SG(2)

Thanks for the encouragement. But, Early Landing Republic works because of science and that experience won't help much with the science slider at zero. Haven't decided yet when/if to revolt. Corruption already is a problem; waiting for Fundy, it will be crushing.

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Old March 5, 2003, 17:04   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bloody Monk
@SG[1]

Can't name a city if I don't know what "Bee" represents, now can I??

@SG(2)
But, Early Landing Republic works because of science and that experience won't help much with the science slider at zero. Haven't decided yet when/if to revolt. Corruption already is a problem; waiting for Fundy, it will be crushing. Monk
IKB was a famous British engineer. Recently when the BBC ran a nationwide poll of the most famous Brit of all time he came second only to WSC. (Winston Spencer Churchill) Just name the city Bee

Sure you have science @ 0%. There will be no standard SSC in this game. The route (pun intended) to success is to make Arkwright a Super Trade City. Freights from the capital will be worth many beakers. You are probably aware that during early landing games solo manages two techs a turn. Half of this comes from filling F6 with beakers derived from trade.

-----------------

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Old March 5, 2003, 19:21   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse Gits


IKB was a famous British engineer. Recently when the BBC ran a nationwide poll of the most famous Brit of all time he came second only to WSC. (Winston Spencer Churchill) Just name the city Bee SG(2)
Kwell, and may I add, 'Kay.


Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse Gits

Sure you have science @ 0%. There will be no standard SSC in this game. The route (pun intended) to success is to make Arkwright a Super Trade City. Freights from the capital will be worth many beakers. You are probably aware that during early landing games solo manages two techs a turn. Half of this comes from filling F6 with beakers derived from trade.
-----------------

SG(2),

Yep, good point. Came to the same conclusion while waiting for a doctor's appointment this afternoon. I think the current bout of poor health has made me squishy brained.

We'll just have to bear the lack of shields for a while as the Republican Trade Corporation gets its legs under it.

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Old March 5, 2003, 20:18   #108
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Monk ... Good Luck! [1] has already a city called Kay - appropriate in another way as he was the inventor of the Flying Shuttle

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Old March 5, 2003, 21:01   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Monk ... Good Luck! [1] has already a city called Kay - appropriate in another way as he was the inventor of the Flying Shuttle

------------------

SG(2)
Sorry, that was a weakish pun...oK.

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Old March 5, 2003, 21:31   #110
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Quote:
as the specialists you are creating are wasting much more valuable resources than the paltry ones offered in Despotism.
Not sure about that. The only cost of xinning are from shields. What you can xin with will be the non-shield squares. This will give your science a bit of a kick in the rear, expecially if you have 1 ein and one taxman.


We need an analogy for the poor tax guy; after all, we have eins and elvii.

(edit, 99 posts on 'poly to go,)
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Old March 5, 2003, 21:45   #111
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Please help
There seems to be a naming convention that I am not getting. Best guess...cities are named after notable inventors or anti-science standouts. What's the Watt??

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Old March 5, 2003, 23:46   #112
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I started, so I guess I should explain.

Ironically, the Luddites honour the inventors who built things the luddites destroyed.

Watt represents James Watt who developed one model of steam engine used in Britain.

I'm sure one of the Gits will embellish his accomplishments.
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Old March 6, 2003, 01:14   #113
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1 Watt = 1 Joule ( another city name) per second = measure of power

SGs, why not Isembard, Kingdom and Brunel instead of Eye Kay Bee ?
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Old March 6, 2003, 04:20   #114
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Because IKB is known to every English schoolboy as - 'IKB'.

A wonderful board game - 1829 (that might not have crossed the Atlantic, but was the precursor of 'Railroad Tycoon') actually states in its rules "The end of a turn is denoted by the formal passing of IKB's tophat to the next player, you could of course use a six point spanner or a counter for this purpose."

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Old March 6, 2003, 04:40   #115
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Behold!! The Luddite Republic...
Thanks to SG[1] for providing a great save.

There were two problems that needed attention before revolting to Republic. Bessemer has a boat and a unit exploring, and Watt's will not be able to support its settler after it grows to size 2. The Bessie ellie will be dropped at Kay and the Watt's settler will build a city. With the Gardens our cities can survive at size 2, but a settler or temple will be needed soon.

In preparing for Republic, some units were shifted about, where possible, to end with one unit per city, except at the flanks. Even this is too many, IMHO; but I did not want to hear screams of fear if I left a "defenseless" realm. Amazingly, we are #1 in Science and Supreme. By giving tech, we can keep the AI away for a time, but this is MPGE and I bet that ruse won't work like it does playing 2.42. In any case, we won't be getting two turn advances to sustain that ploy.

Let's play the game!!

200--Settler joins Arkwright --> size 6. Contact the Zulu and Germ people... in both cases, refuse c/f, then accept 50g and peace. The good folk of Trevithick use the funds to set up a flea market. As for all turns, some fill-the-line tickling is done.

175--Start the Huntsmen horse homeward as ithe city is building a boat. Send the Newcomen horse stabled at Bessemer to join the boat when it sails.

150--The seacoast city of Bee (135,87) is founded. Hut (105,119) produces a nomad. No revolt.

Cities should be located on the coast as much as possible for we will need many boats to make our Mercantile Republic work. This means, passing on inland 4-special sites and building one or two cities on the coast instead.

100--Nomad builds Pauling (108,114) a three special site. Watt's settler builds Popiel (120,76) which has a hidden special. The huntsmen launches the flagship of the Great Northern Fleet. Demand tribute of Germans and get war Suddenly, the pesky Germ archer, encroaching on Iron Duke, gets ridden down by our vet chariot. Iron Duke will probably need defending the whole game. We should even consider building some forts around it
The Kelts build Marco Polo's Embassy

Not sure I grasp the naming deal. Feel free to change names to whatever. If someone says they never heard of Ron Popiel, then they know how some of us reacted to "IKB."

75--Peace with Germany, no $

50--Revolt

25--The Sun rises on the Luddite Republic, a very curious social experiment. Disband 3 warriors gathered at Trev'k and build a marketplace. Disband or move or rehome other units. Contact Zulu Nation who offer to Trade us "Trade", an offer we cannot refuse. Change some dips to camels in the build orders. When the Science screen comes up for selection, I chose Monotheism--for Mike's Chapel.

We have now 910,000 souls under our charge. Lux are bumped to 80% to celebrate all seven elegibles.

1ad--Berlin completes the Pyrimids

20--Zulu's send Watt's wayward horse to Iron Duke for us. Thank you Hut (137,119) yields 100g--> Marketplace of Bessemer.

40--Gift techs, get maps from both Zulu and Germans. Hargreaves builds a settler to finish roadwork and begin irrigating a few spots.

60--Celebration ended with 1,740,000 souls on hand. There are now many cities that can Xin. For awhile, we can squeeze advances down to nine turns. After Monotheism is discovered, it will need to go up again while camels are raised so we can get the Chapel and handle unhappiness. Some settlers are needed to irrigate/road.

The road from here will be slow at first. Having zero science is a pickle. But now we have to go find folk to trade with and keep on dreaming of the stars. As SG[1] remarked, this is a fun, enjoyable way to play.

Monk

Good luck with this!!
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Old March 6, 2003, 11:43   #116
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Sounds great Monk - shame you couldn't hang out for Fundy

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Old March 6, 2003, 14:18   #117
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Old March 6, 2003, 15:41   #118
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No Fundy.

I guess world conquest with zoo cities are out of the picture.

Nice to see we are first in techs!

I find this somewhat hard to believe.
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Old March 6, 2003, 17:57   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by obiwan18
Nice to see we are first in techs!
I find this somewhat hard to believe.
Not that strange. We have been keen explorers and have met some other civs with whom to trade science. In addition at this stage of the game the AI tends to mirror the human player's tech rate ... ours is 0%

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Old March 6, 2003, 18:35   #120
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@SG[1]

Hanging out for Fundy...you make it sound so close. But really, the deciding factor was how much harder Republic will be. Once in Fundy, we would have had much less to deal with...no corruption, freedom of unit movement in numbers and no unit support. And we have already learned to play Trade Fundy with zero science. No science Republic will be new ground, and a significant challenge. Once I decided that Republic was the way to go, the only remaining question was when to revolt.

@M. La Fayette

Very subtle sentence structure. I choose to take it as a compliment and, thus, respond with a hearty thank you

@Young Master Jedi

Read the rules. Conquest is a pointless effort since we can win only by getting our spaceship to AC. I refer you to line 10 of the first post.

It is not a matter of belief. We have been first in Science since at least the 850 save, according to the science advisor. Of course, much like knowing the rules, one would have to actually get and look at the posted saves to know that. You may want to try that. It is a method non-jedi folk have found to be quite serviceable.

General Observation

The Luxury slider is higher than necessary since Arkwright cannot grow any more until it gets an aquaduct. But it allows Xinning to proceed. I may have let some cities grow too far; but, I thought the Xin would be stronger. Everything will smooth out with Mono-Mike's. Trev'k and Bessemer are no longer alternating the Xin. Pick one to hold an extra turn on food so they can alternate again.

Good luck!!

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