No Science Succession: Revenge of the Space Luddites

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
Beware the latest save. Bomb Alert!!!

I'll let others comment on building Wonders a turn at a time out in the wilderness, where no help can come from our other cities.

Is it a lesson or just a rant?? Where is the Institute??

Monk

I'm just glad this game is presenting a challenge , unlike my polar start game, which was a cakewalk.

And... yeah... I seem to recall messing up a game by letting my Xin city starve, a while back.

As for the wonder... WHY do we want KRC or Sun Tzu? This isn't a conquest game.

edit: isn't

[Ben Kenobi]

JRabbit:

Play 20 turns to make up for the one that you have lost.
No one will complain.


Vlad:

What did the barbs do in Rourke's Drift?
How many landed?

[Bloody Monk]

Vlad,

We are a Republic. There are some points about being in that Gov't that must be dealt with. A city can only have one unit, or early boat, out of the city at one time. Makes for red/unhappies amoung the peeps, otherwise.

Crompton, which already supported a boat, had it's production changed to another boat, which is now at sea. AND, yet another boat is being built there. There are plenty of ports; there is no need to build multiple boats in one city. Hopefully, it will be rehomed at some nearby port.

Mining some grass, or the rivered grass to give Arkwright extra shields would allow rehoming boats there to take advantage of Shake's.

By changing the workers in the various cities, you can get research down to 12 turns and gold + ~60. Also, we have a great pile of gold. It might be good to "tickle" the various builds by filling up the current line.

Those are a few ideas for you to consider. Don't despair; we all learn by doing--and getting feedback. And it is also allowed to ask before doing if you know you are lost. I've done that myself. Hang in there.

Monk

[Scouse Gits]

Hydey to The Institute!

I must concur with the learned advice of our clerical brother - particularly as regards WoWs

SG[1]

[-Jrabbit]

Only had time for a quick look last night. But quite interesting. Observations IIRC:

--We have 23 cities in our Republic, including several spread far from the homeland. Corruption seems not to be such a big problem.
--Mucho dinero. Over 3K GP to play with. :mmm: Tasty. We'll be finishing lots of rows early!
--Huge area revealed to us! Great job in getting map trades.
--At only 20% Happiness, we still have only a couple redfaced workers. Ah, the power of WoWs...
--Many size 2 cities. Need celebrating 3''s!
--We seem to be building camels, settlers, and not much else.
--Xinning is rampant, and I'm about to become a first-time xinner. The Monk's bomb alert duly noted.
Hold your breath, lads!
--Definitely in need of a federal rehoming program to allow trade with greater impunity.
--We're building KRC, and not in Arkwright? Hmm. At least my old pal and well-known friend of the Republic Adam Smith is available... Sun Tzu would have been nice. I like this WoW in Republic. When the size of the militia is limited, it sure helps if they're all vets!

Sorry about yesterday's rant; STYOM -- just letting off steam. I'm certainly not piggish enough to play 20 at this late date.

I note that, now that we've made the gov't change to Republic, this game is reduced to the following ruleset:
1. Keep Science locked at Zero.
2. Get to Alpha Centauri.

Despite the Git whines about the boring nature of The Republic, this looks like great fun to me. I play tonight; wish me luck!

[Hydey]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Hydey to The Institute!

I must concur with the learned advice of our clerical brother - particularly as regards WoWs

SG[1]

F*** OFF IDIOT

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Hey, hey... where's the ?

Play NICE.

[-Jrabbit]

Here's the ZIP. Will try to find time to post details from work later.

Next...!

[-Jrabbit]

The year is AD 980 and -Jrabbit seizes the title of Proconsul. The ppl quiver querelously in anticipation, knowing that this long-eared lagomorphic Luddite now controls their destiny.

Addressing the throngs, -Jrabbit notes that "...there just aren't enough of us. For our Republic to truly prosper, we MUST embark on a program of city growth. To enable this, I hereby declare oysters the National Appetizer. Furthermore, the use of prophylaxis in any form is now a crime! Let no seed be spilled upon the ground, and our cities shall indeed become pregnant with ppl!"

With that, -Jrabbit and his new, all-female Advisory Council retire to chambers and get to business...
----------
AD 980 -- -Jrabbit calls on the council to give a full accounting of the republic's status, and is well pleased. 23 cities, only 2 red faces at 20% lux, over 3000 GP in the coffers, at peace with all 5 known civs (need embassies with distant Celts and Zulus), and a culture dedicated to the employment of half-time wizards. Growth is needed, and infrastructure. Xinning cities are identified and adjusted to avoid starvation. Science rate at 28 turns.

AD1000 -- Futile attempt to give direction to boats and caravans, none of which is near a viable delivery destination. Federal Rehoming Project (FRP) instituted for all naval units, though some are too distant to hear the call to Arkwright. Many a shield-row incrementally completed. Workers redeployed here and there. Xinning continues in 6 cities. Ppl ready to celebrate as Luxuries move to a full 80%.

AD1020 -- Sioux gain Astronomy, start Copernicus. Xin Yu prepares for vacation away from Arkwright. Coal camel recalled to Iron Duke, camel rushed in Jenner. Much incremental fussing. 14 cities celebrate tax reduction. Barb legions spotted outside Eye.

AD1040 -- Population at 3.98 MM. Camels completed in Bridgewater, Berenice, Jenner. Cambridge joins celebration. Final xinning in Arkwright befor starvation. Food van preps for delivery there. Crompton trireme rehomed to Arkwright, which is down to its last 3 wizards. Camel +50 shields to Iron Duke, now working on Adam Smith. Berenice copper van heads to Arkwright, where it will board a trireme-to-be-rehomed-later. Brave diplomat enters hut, finds NONE nomads! Pauling starts xinning. Eye defends itself vs. first wave of barbs.

AD1060 -- Food van causes feasting in Arkwright, wizards take 20 years off, pushing research rate to 37 turns. Spanish start KRC. Now at 4.56 MM ppl, with many aqueducts and harbors being rushed.

AD1080 -- 5.29 MM ppl. Wandering trireme finds Tyre (1). The Institute, Kay load camels with cargo of Beads. Zulus demand audience, brag about their discovery of Chemistry. Arkwright responds with return to full xinning. Discoveries at 17 turns. Barbs attack Eye again, lose. Exposed barb king chased down by pikeman brings 150gp. Germans attack ill-defended Iron Duke just as Adam Smith Trading opens for business. Chariot from Jenner sent to shore up defense. Back at their homeland, Germans sink Luddite trireme and its cargo of 2 camels.

AD1100 -- Diplomat pops another distant hut, gets another NONE nomad! German crusader dispatched at Eye, pikeman shore up defenses. Bee becomes first Luddite city to enroll in Proconsul's "Stop Growing, Start Xinning" Program. discovery rate now 12 turns. Arkwright finishes gold van, which is awaiting a boat in which to travel.

AD1120 -- Population hits 7.0 MM. Coal delivered to Bessemer, nets 74 GP. Xinning, incremental spending, acquisition of white goods to sustain growth all continue apace. Adam Smith a boon to the economy, which now nets +67GP/turn even at 20%.

AD1140 -- Persians get Math, Germans get Economics. We finally get Sanitation! From menu of Theology and Chemistry -Jrabbit selects Astrology, which is deemed of more immediate import (caravels and Magellan) than the also-desired path to engineers. Portsmouth founded. another hut popped yields NONE crusaders.
--------------------
-Jrabbit retires. Population at 7,950,000. Research at 19 turns (will change when successor adjusts xinning). Many cities now in the 8-12 size range, and we can grow them bigger with Sewer Systems. Treasury now down around 1000GP iirc -- still plenty to work with. Temples, markets, aqueducts, and harbors abound. Many cities poised for further growth, and several more maturing to the point of joining the Xinning Machine. Many caravans hanging around awaiting transport to distant shores. Two nomads (with a diplomat as their only protection) prepared to settle new land together.

Have a care with the triremes. Some are en route to Arkwright for rehoming, some are hopelessly far from home and exploring. One, I believe, is headed to Iron Duke/Jenner area to make delivery.

The goal here is to maximize population for the purpose of future xinning. That, combined with a caravel-based, Magellan-led merchant marine, should lead us to truly excellent research rate.

With Adam Smith and the resulting income, both white goods and incremental buying are now possible, even during celebrations. Courthouses, marketplaces, etc. are now cost-effective investments.

Successor Note: There are several camels in Arkwright, and not necessarily for a WoW. Some (3, I think) hold precious cargo!!) My intent was to rehome most triremes there, picking up cargo camels in the process.

Homeland Security update: We now have some large (>8) cities with pretty woeful defenses. Upgrades should be considered, especially in remote areas. Speaking of which, there seems to be plenty of open land available, and we should be grabbing all within reasonable reach of the homeland..
-----------
This was great fun. I know some may be bored when forced to micromanage cities instead of plan invasions, but not this bunny!
Much learning has occurred. Xinning uber alles!!!

[-Jrabbit]

Back to you, STYOM.

10 turns is plenty at this stage IMHO.

[La Fayette]

Fast growth with help of female advisors is well known among Australian rabbits AFAIK.
You show us that some Xinning in the meantime doesn't hinder growth .
Well done, JR!

[-Jrabbit]

Under my benevolent and rabbit-like rule, the ppl of Luddite Republic (bleep)ed like bunnies!!

Thx for the kind words, La Fayette. Now awaiting robust commentary from other, but must admit it went better than I'd originally hoped.

-Jrabbit looks forward to setting personal bests with his new Institute-approved Xinning Machine.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

1. obiwan18
2. SG(2)
3. Hydey
4. Vlad Antlerkov
5. Jrabbit
6. SCG
7. STYOM
8. SG[1]
9. Bloody Monk
10. La Fayette

Play 8 turns, pls.

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by La Fayette
Fast growth with help of female advisors is well known among Australian rabbits AFAIK.
You show us that some Xinning in the meantime doesn't hinder growth .
Well done, JR!

The other thing I never fully appreciated is the ability to create many settlers (from food-rich cities) during WLTxD growth. City regains size in one turn, settler helps with roads/whatever, and then joins appropriate city to spark more growth.

Synergistic beyond anything I've done before.

[Ben Kenobi]

The other thing I never fully appreciated is the ability to create many settlers (from food-rich cities) during WLTxD growth. City regains size in one turn, settler helps with roads/whatever, and then joins appropriate city to spark more growth.

One thing I have found while growing cities:

Once they are large enough to celebrate, you should never need a food surplus greater than 1 on the turns that you want to grow.

All excess food can be used instead to Xin, thus increasing our science rate.

Glad to see our population up to 8 million. You accomplished the largest percentage growth for any one turn this game.

As for settlers, roads and harbours are critical for low cost celebrations.

Once these are implemented, we should not need 80% lux, but rather 50-60% luxuries to celebrate.

[Bloody Monk]

"I agree, Sire."



Monk

[SCG]

wow, up already? I have the game now and will have a look around - first glance, looks like we have a nice base now with 13 7+, and another 7 able to Xin ether now or in 1-2 turns

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
-Jrabbit selects Astrology,

Good turns bunny ... Astrology ... interesting new ploy. Does that allow the Psychic Lagomorph Wonder?

-------------------

SG(2)

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits


Good turns bunny ... Astrology ... interesting new ploy. Does that allow the Psychic Lagomorph Wonder?

-------------------

SG(2)

Thanks for catching that. I completely missed it. Either a screaming malapropism, or our rabbit is deviously subtle.

Monk

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Good turns bunny ... Astrology ... interesting new ploy. Does that allow the Psychic Lagomorph Wonder?
-------------------
SG(2)

Depends on your sign and the phase of the moon. If the stars are in alignment, you can get the Predict Hut Outcomes wonder.

Wish I could take credit for being so subtle and clever. Sad to say, I was just rushed.

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by SCG
wow, up already? I have the game now and will have a look around - first glance, looks like we have a nice base now with 13 7+, and another 7 able to Xin ether now or in 1-2 turns

:

[Hydey]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit

:

yes I agree

[SCG]

sorry about the delay, got delayed by work, and then the Demo game - i've been trying to analyze it like i was the Demo game too, since we have 24 cities, which is taking more time than expected. should be able to finish today. also trying to decide what to do with the 7 warriors still hanging around - if we are going to build Leo's (might be worth while), i may just try and rehome them instead of disbanding towards builds. Triremes really are a bit far-flung, and only 1 based out of Arkwright at the start of my turn. Also trying to get by with a lower lux rate than 80%

[SCG]

first glances:
111 beakers atm, cost 10 turns
total cost 1024 beakers currently
13 caravans en route, 7 in production.
many cities able to celebrate, many cities with food and not able to celebrate will Xin - gets science to 139 beakers, and discoveries at 8 turns and 70% luxuries

7 triremes, but only 1 supported by arkwright (en route to Iron duke with 2 demanded vans)

quite a few pikemen in production - do we need them? We also have 7 warriors that are taking up producion and not really doing anything else.


1140: change capitalization in The huntsman to the Huntsman so as to not confuse with units from The Institute. many cities able to celebrate, most cities with food and not able to celebrate will Xin to some extent. gets science to 121 beakers, and discoveries at 9 turns and 60% luxuries, rush sewer system in Arkwright, decide to disband green horseman in Watt not What towards aquaduct, rush aquaduct. Disband Arkwright warriors towards pikeman in Bee, rush pikeman, rush caravan in Bessemer, Disband warrior towards pikeman in Crompton, rush caravan in Eye, disband warriors in Hargreaves towards pikeman, rush pikeman, disband warrior in Lion toward pikeman, rush pikeman, rush pikeman in Pauling

normally i wouldn't rush the pikemen as much, but i suspect some want more defense rather than less, and once we do have them, i can concentrate on building other items

1160: population: 8,550,000, beakers at
hut (100 gp), ponder what to do with the vet trireme with green eli and crook on german borders - not likely to capture any german cities as they are walled, decide are reinforcements for Iron Duke and procede in that direction. After much pondering, and realizing that we are republic (1 free unit, all units with police station or Women's Suffrage), and won't be a democracy, decide to put off federal rehoming program. Arkwright can't support the ships before industrialization (factory) or miniaturization (OSP) anyway. triremes given new orders, new ones started to increase trade. Plan city west of Stephenson to act as port for deliveries to Sioux. Plan for city at 4 special site (2 in the dark specials - given the the tendancy for the same specials to appear in groups of 3-4, I like the chances of them being trade specials as there is already silk and wine) means moving settler away from coast - have a couple good places for builds down the coast) - rush trireme in Rocket. hold off on other rushing as we need a several Sewer Systems and Aquaducts

1180: Population: 9,300,000
rush aquaduct in Bee, hold off on other structures, tough decisions on where to send triremes as we are looking at 15 turns for most deliveries - getting the road system on barrier islands should help reduce that some, along with getting more triremes so that we can ship chain, start moving arkwright vans north for port city of Lion

1200: Population: 9,820,000
Persepolis (Persian) builds King Richard's Crusade, Zulu's, Spanish abandon, Persians develop feudalism, unmarked German van parks outside the Huntsman, realise we don't have any diplomats on the home continent. hut (on hills) - get nomads!, rush aquaduct in Eye, down to 10 celebrating cities, several of which are limited by food or lack of structures. Issue a public works levy, many cities cancel year end celebrations, change Eye to courthouse. luxuries limited to 30% due to food considerations

1220: Population: 9,970,000
Arkwright continues to celebrate, current Xinning has discoveries at 6 turns this turn (178 beakers). Silver to Jenner (d,50), rush diplomat in trevithick as caravan is heading past Hargreaves, and explorer has appeared. All 3 settlers are NON on the island, so looks like we're building a city with NON settlers - better chance to get more Found Booth in 4 special site (2 hidden), rush marketplace in Crompton, Hargreaves, rush harbor in Kay

1240: Population: 10,170,000
wandering crusader finds german counterpart, rush marketplace in Lion, rush courthouse in Pauling, contact germans, get cease fire, peace, gift sanitation and engineering, they don't want an alliance, share maps, and they tire of conversation - 4 crucs and a diplo headed our way - Leipzig is size 9, Hamburg still size 1. check Sioux, they have astronomy and is our key civ, contact Sioux, sign peace, gift engineering, great minds are working on Copes, gift sanitation, share maps, they reject alliance and end conversation, biggest sioux city is size 7, beakers down to 960.

1260: Population 10,360,000
Sioux report nearing completion of Copes., Celts offer 300 gold and Chemistry for alliance and to break peace treaty with Zulus, by rules of engagement, respectfully decline. Silk to Iron Duke (d, 174), german caravan costs 157 gold, expel german diplomat, rush marketplace in Watt not What, rush temple in Jenner, rush library in Berenice

1280: Population 10,540,000
Cedar Creek (Sioux) builds Copernicas' Observatory, marketplace in Rocket spurs celebrations, We discover Astronony, choose Invention, (navigation not offered) beakers at 1056, rush marketplace in Pauling. was hoping for navigation to be able to more easily trade with sioux. Hut, crusader *grumble* supported by Berenice, won't be able to Xin in there for a little while, make plans to rehome its trireme at The Institute, decide to search huts with it as trireme is full. german caravan up to 160 gold, decide to purchace it, Coal, home to Bessemer.

1300: Population 10,860,000
Marketplace in Pauling spurs partying, rush marketplace in Jenner. I'll leave any extra rushing to my successor

notes: Trireme outside Lion has Copper for Iron Duke and Gold for Leipzig, Trireme west of Iron Duke can be used for 2nd leg of the journey to liepzig. I left 3 warriors, and didn't do as much with caravans as i would have liked to. I also didn't get quite as far along on Navigation as I would have liked, though did increase population by 50%. Also be careful when growing cities as i grew a couple past Xinning stage (no food surplus) and had to wait for irrigation to finish. The Berenice crusader is currently heading east as there are about 4 huts out there according to the hutfinder 2 polar (41, 119), (73,119), and 2 on cont 33 (69,111) and 75,113). Since we don't have Navigation yet, triremes can safely cross to the Soiux continent leaving from (147,43). I have several triremes converging in the area, where the Berenice trireme should be rehomed at the Institute to allow Berenice to Xin first, then can be used to ferry between Institute's continent and Booth's continent. Also, we have a trireme running between Rocket and Lion and a trireme crossing the channel to Jenner/Iron Duke. A couple of settlers are preworked (NE of Booth, NE of Trevithick

Sioux are researching Navigation, and are our Key Civ. If we want to try and trade for navigation, we should refrain from gifting techs to them. On the other hand, if we want to delay them so that we discover it first, we could gift a lot and lower our beakers as well as raise theirs. Current Xinning patterns give alternating 6/14 turns, with this turn being the 6. That is certainly adjustable, as cities like Watt not What is set to Xin for 3 turns (straight now, and we can add 4 scientists on the 3rd turn (28 stored food, set to -13 starvation), while Iron Duke could Xin rather than using the 13 production atm. Again, with a rushed marketplace, Jenner should celebrate this turn. Anyway, seeing that the natives are restless, I'm finally posting a save

I've got to cut back on CNN and March Madness

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

SCG

I have the save... will play in due course

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Consul STYOM takes over the dunce Republic.

1300: Checks to ensure our Xin cities should be that way; changes Elvis to Wizard in Berenice. Rushes Stock Exchange in Arkwright. Since we have no Science at all, Tax/Lux improvements are anywhere from 40-60% more valuable, due to the extra allocations to Tax and Luxury.

Gaah, confused! Lots of 'vans about, but what are we doing with them?? *checks again* Ahh, ok... trading with the Sioux seems the best approach. Too bad we can't cross the open water

Goals: get Invention (and Leo) and Navigation (and Magellan). Those 2 advances will make our trading strategy work a lot better.

*ENTER*

Germans sneak attack and kill a Crusader; barbs land near Stephenson.

1320: Un- and re- Xin numerous cities. Science kept at 6 turns/tech. I figure we can keep science at 5-7 turns/tech with Xinning until we have Navigation and Invention... after that, we'll trade more and Xin less, assuming we can get Magellan and Leo built. There are a few cities which have no food surplus or worse, a food deficit when *not* Xinning... so we have to be a little careful

Sioux learn Navigation

1340: Rush library in Arkwright. I'm going to try to expand Arkwright's territory - once we have the city maxed, the Xinning is essentially 'free' - we can't work the excess population anyway.

Swap Navigation for Economics with Sioux. The Sioux have no need for our pathetic science! Huh. Well, we're Luddites, so they may have a point. No matter, soon we shall have Magellan and we'll rule the seas, regardless of whether we be stoooopid by Sioux standards

New Crusader in Stephenson puts barbarian Legion on ice

Zulus start Magellan; Germans attack Iron Duke and are repelled by our Pikemen.

1360: Arkwright builds Library, starts Magellan.

1380: Invention discovered; we start Physics. Magellan rushed in Arkwright.

Persians and Germans trade techs and make peace.

1400: Magellan's Expedition in Arkwright. Zulus abandon.
Banting founded, as a shortcut from Pauling and Canali.
Gems Bee>Stephenson, 78 g.
Some rushing of Caravans and white goods.

Germans acquire Mathematics, Chemistry, and sacrifice another Crusader to our Pikemen.

1420: Trevithick starts Leonardo.
Wool Bee>Stony Lake, 148g.

Spanish start Leonardo copycats
Persians learn Chivalry

1440: Leonardo rushed in Trevithick.
Silk Watt>Stephenson 135 g.

1460: Leonardo's Workshop in Trevithick. Zulus, Spanish abandon. Massive upgrades

STYOM feels good about having achieved his (limited) goals and passes the torch to the next Consul.

Population now 12.2 MM, 13 Caravans built, 10 building.

*****
Some thoughts and warnings: I'm not Xinning, so don't worry about starvation. We have scads of cash due to luxuries @30%. We might want to boost those after finishing some of the white goods in production - sewers and banks, mainly.

We have the beginnings of a shipchain between Stephenson and Sioux lands.

I have been trying to gradually grow Arkwright by relocating workers from Trevithick.

If the Germans or Sioux make any demands, be aware that we have vulnerable units at 85,45 and 6,44.

Lots of choices from here on in. Rushbuying sprees, mass celebration, and/or plenty of trading to be done.

[SCG]

good job with getting both Leo's and Magellan;s Also nice to see my ship chain eventually came into being.

Guess you decided not to use the Bessemer (now caraval) for deliveries to southern Germany? What i was trying to set up on that end was Lion-Jenner ferry(maybe a city on the island in the bay as well), and then Jenner-Iron Duke road, followed by perhaps a coastal city west of Iron Duke and then the ship would deliver to southern Germany - right now that caraval is probably 7 turns from anything

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by SCG
Guess you decided not to use the Bessemer (now caraval) for deliveries to southern Germany? What i was trying to set up on that end was Lion-Jenner ferry(maybe a city on the island in the bay as well), and then Jenner-Iron Duke road, followed by perhaps a coastal city west of Iron Duke and then the ship would deliver to southern Germany - right now that caraval is probably 7 turns from anything

ah, that's what it was for Actually, I'm not a big fan of landing Caravans on shore and then them needing 2 or 3 overland moves to get delivered. That's my excuse for not realizing what you were planning

Anyway I like the idea of running Caravels to N Germany better... even though we're still at war with 'em. Of course, the disadvantage of delivering to coastal cities is that the bad guys might have ships lurking about Hopefully that isn't the case. In any event, Magnetism is only 2 techs away and we should have an even bigger advantage at sea by that point.

The missing caravel is heading 'home' to join the ship chain. The more the merrier.

[SCG]

I try and use land routes when possible, partly because 3 movement on a road similar to 3 movement at sea (pre shipping wonders), and can often be more direct.

But the 2 primary reasons i try and use land routes is because movement is unlimited once we get railroad, and ships can end their turns in cities instead of leaving them in open water where they are vunerable, freeing up escort ships for other duties. If the land routes are already established, its much easier to continue with railroad.

[-Jrabbit]

Looks like some great turnsets, guys! Wonderful wonders...
Prepping to be a Trade Giant...