February 24, 2003, 11:30
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#1
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King
Local Time: 21:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: International crime fighting playboy
Posts: 1,063
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This Guy should spend big time in prison
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Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)
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February 24, 2003, 11:39
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#2
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Emperor
Local Time: 16:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Germantown, Maryland
Posts: 3,470
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Quote:
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One tape, Jihad, contained the words: "So you go to India and if you see a Hindu walking down the road you are allowed to kill him and take his money, is that clear?"
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Good riddance to bad rubbish
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Do not take anything I say seriously. It's just the Internet. It's not real life.
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February 24, 2003, 12:03
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#3
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Deity
Local Time: 04:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
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Where is the line between freedom of speech and, uh, "soliciting murder?"
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
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February 24, 2003, 12:13
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#4
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King
Local Time: 21:17
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: All Connections That Have Been Made Are Now Dead
Posts: 2,981
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about here:
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Quote:
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One tape, Jihad, contained the words: "So you go to India and if you see a Hindu walking down the road you are allowed to kill him and take his money, is that clear?"
He also said it is permissible to use chemical weapons to kill unbelievers.
In a tape called Rules of Jihad, thought to have been made before September 11 Al-Faisal told his audience: "You have to learn how to shoot. You have to learn how to fly planes, drive tanks and you have to learn how to load your guns and to use missiles."
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lets hope he goes down for a very long time 
__________________
"The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.
"The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton
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February 24, 2003, 13:27
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#5
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Deity
Local Time: 21:17
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Germans own my soul.
Posts: 14,861
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Good, and they should feed that Abu Hamza to a ticking crocodile 
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Speaking of Erith:
"It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith
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February 24, 2003, 13:29
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#6
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Deity
Local Time: 16:17
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Join Date: May 2001
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Where is the line between freedom of speech and, uh, "soliciting murder?"
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Easy.
"Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder. Free speech is when you tell people anything except that committing crimes is okay.
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February 24, 2003, 13:37
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#7
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Local Time: 16:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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"Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder.
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So Poly posters that say we should kill Saddam are guilty of 'soliciting murder'? 
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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February 24, 2003, 13:38
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#8
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Emperor
Local Time: 13:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Frogger
Easy.
"Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder. Free speech is when you tell people anything except that committing crimes is okay.
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I wonder if the same is true in the U.S. AFAIK, it is illegal to encourage people to commit a specific crime (i.e., "Kill John Smith!"), but I don't know if it is illegal to encourage non-specific acts (i.e. "Kill Whitey!").
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Tutto nel mondo è burla
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February 24, 2003, 13:38
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#9
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Deity
Local Time: 16:17
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Yes. Good luck trying to get anybody to prosecute.
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February 24, 2003, 13:39
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#10
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Deity
Local Time: 16:17
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Join Date: May 2001
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Quote:
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I wonder if the same is true in the U.S. AFAIK, it is illegal to encourage people to commit a specific crime (i.e., "Kill John Smith!"), but I don't know if it is illegal to encourage non-specific acts (i.e. "Kill Whitey!").
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It certainly is here.
We also go too far, IMO and ban all speech that promotes hatred based on race, sex, etc.
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February 24, 2003, 13:39
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#11
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Emperor
Local Time: 13:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
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Quote:
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"Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder.
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So Poly posters that say we should kill Saddam are guilty of 'soliciting murder'?
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I'd rather see Saddam taken care of by his own people. And I'd rather see him put on trial for crimes against humanity. That would end his "martyrdom" real quick. He and Noriega can be cellmates.
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Tutto nel mondo è burla
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February 24, 2003, 13:49
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#12
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Local Time: 16:17
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Boris, I agree that in the US, this guy would be allowed to say what he is saying because it is a non-specific crime he is advocating.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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February 24, 2003, 14:06
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#13
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Emperor
Local Time: 16:17
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Join Date: Sep 2001
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Posts: 3,470
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Then he should move to America. The Land of the Free Great Satan.
__________________
Do not take anything I say seriously. It's just the Internet. It's not real life.
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February 24, 2003, 14:59
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#14
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Emperor
Local Time: 15:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
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Quote:
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"Soliciting murder" is when you tell people it's okay to commit murder. Free speech is when you tell people anything except that committing crimes is okay.
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Are you saying that advocating criminal acts shouldn't be legally protected speech?
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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February 24, 2003, 15:04
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#15
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Emperor
Local Time: 15:17
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Not to say that all speech advocating criminal acts should be legally protected, but this shouldn't automatically make speech non-protected.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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February 24, 2003, 18:25
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#16
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Deity
Local Time: 16:17
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Ramo
Are you saying that advocating criminal acts shouldn't be legally protected speech?
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Yes.
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February 24, 2003, 18:39
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#17
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Deity
Local Time: 16:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Not your daddy's Benjamins
Posts: 10,737
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Those were nice juicy morsels of quotes, but those don't seem to show a true solicitation of murder. I doubt he would be convicted by jury in the US, even if it were against the law.
__________________
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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February 24, 2003, 18:56
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#18
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Emperor
Local Time: 15:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,595
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So Poly posters that say we should kill Saddam are guilty of 'soliciting murder'?
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Actually, since capital punishment is legally-sanctioned murder, killing Saddam would be murder.
Now, if we killed him because resistance has made capture and imprisonment impossible, I can see that being justified.
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STFU and then GTFO!
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February 24, 2003, 19:00
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#19
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 20:17
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Frogger
Yes.
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February 24, 2003, 19:03
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#20
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Deity
Local Time: 16:17
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Join Date: May 2001
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Posts: 18,577
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Which Yes?
Saddam or speech becoming illegal by its advocacy of illegal acts?
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February 24, 2003, 19:06
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#21
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Deity
Local Time: 16:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
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Quote:
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Those were nice juicy morsels of quotes, but those don't seem to show a true solicitation of murder. I doubt he would be convicted by jury in the US, even if it were against the law.
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Quote:
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"So you go to India and if you see a Hindu walking down the road you are allowed to kill him and take his money, is that clear?"
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I'm not sure who has jurisdiction here (UK or India), but this quote seems to solicit murder (unless it is taken out of context)...
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February 24, 2003, 19:08
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#22
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 20:17
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Frogger
speech becoming illegal by its advocacy of illegal acts?
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February 24, 2003, 19:09
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#23
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Deity
Local Time: 16:17
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
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I don't see the problem with this.
AFAIK even "soliciting mischief" is a crime around here...
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February 24, 2003, 19:14
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#24
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 20:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Frogger
I don't see the problem with this.
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Everyone should have the right to speak whatever they want. Even if it is violence and hate.
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February 24, 2003, 19:15
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#25
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Deity
Local Time: 16:17
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
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Hate yes, violence no.
That's why conspiracy to commit murder is a crime, even if the murder is never actually attempted.
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February 24, 2003, 19:17
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#26
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 20:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Frogger
Hate yes, violence no.
That's why conspiracy to commit murder is a crime, even if the murder is never actually attempted.
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When its directed at one certain person, I'll agree with you. If its directed at a group of people (blacks, russians, etc) then I disagree with you.
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February 24, 2003, 19:20
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#27
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Deity
Local Time: 16:17
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Join Date: May 2001
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Why? If I offer to give you 5000$ to kill a random black person is it any less a crime than offering 5000$ to kill a particular black person?
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February 24, 2003, 21:13
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#28
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Local Time: 16:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
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Quote:
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since capital punishment is legally-sanctioned murder
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No it isn't. Murder is unlawful killing. Capital punishment being lawful, by nature, cannot be murder.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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February 24, 2003, 22:18
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#29
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Emperor
Local Time: 23:17
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I read a book about this mercenary in near Bosnia who dipped his bullets in pigs grease, so every mujahedin fighter he shot wouldn't get to paradise.
__________________
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
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February 24, 2003, 22:23
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#30
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 20:17
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Frogger
Why? If I offer to give you 5000$ to kill a random black person is it any less a crime than offering 5000$ to kill a particular black person?
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But thats not speech (well it is.....you know what I mean). If I say "Death to the Blacks!" I should not be arrested. If I try to kill a black, then yeah I should be arrested.
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