How to find enemy´s capital

Cobra · February 26, 2003, 10:48

One of my first steps on my way to win a duell is to find enemy´s capital. It´s much easier to make a surprise attack, if no unit has ever made a step on enemy´s land. All I need is an enemy-city not more than 15 fields away from capital.
With only one diplo, p.e. on a ship, I find the correct place of the capital. I send the diplo into the city to get the price to bribe the city. I leave and go to another place and sent the same diplo into the same city, get a second price, if possible I make it a third time, then I open an embassy with this diplo to get informations about enemys gold.
A conclusion of the spy-threads is to make a formula, that helps to find the distance to the capital. The formula is:
Distance=(((CitySize*(1000+Enemygold))/price to bribe)-3)
With my diplo I got 2 or 3 distances, now I use my matrix to find the capital. That´s it.

H=Capital (German: Hauptstadt)
x=no bribing possible

La Fayette · February 26, 2003, 17:56

sehr schön!

Henrik · February 26, 2003, 18:07

Is that an eye?

Elephant · February 26, 2003, 18:21

wunderbar!

Shaka Naldur · February 26, 2003, 19:47

quite interesting!

DrSpike · February 27, 2003, 08:27

Cunning in the extreme.

Cobra · February 27, 2003, 08:33

I posted this many months ago in our stupid krauts lforum....

http://civ2-forum.gamigo.de/showthre...&threadid=6750

Shaka Naldur · February 27, 2003, 11:09

nothing in english?

Scouse Gits · February 27, 2003, 13:05

Neat piece of work - well done

SG[1]

Straybow · February 27, 2003, 20:45

Yes, I see. Bribe price = size*(1000+gold)/(distance+3) by that formula. However, I believe that building a Courthouse has some effect on the bribe price. Perhaps it is fairly rare in MP? It is certainly rare for the AI to bother.

DrSpike · February 27, 2003, 21:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Straybow
Perhaps it is fairly rare in MP?

Rare would be an understatement, for all practical purposes one can consider the case with no courthouse.

War4ever · February 28, 2003, 16:49

actually, its rare, but it is done..if i have a sweet city that is suffering from corruption then i will build a courthourse right after the temple.

sometimes i get the market in there first, but if you have the cash the courthouse is great for republic/monarchy and of course the xtra happy in demo makes celbrating the city afterwards much easier..

its not something i/we as mp'ers do early in a game, but if you get rolling, its a viable strategy.....

as for that eye..jesus, big brother is everywhere

rah · February 28, 2003, 18:08

Ditto what War said. If there is REAL SWEET city far away, I may consider a courthouse early. But using this method would ding me right around 99% of the time.

But he uses this to plan a sneak attack against your cap. Unless my cap is on the shore, it will be surrounded by other cities and surprising it will be impossible. It can be dangerous moving your units into the black, when they can already be seen by your opponent's guard city.

War4ever · February 28, 2003, 20:57

yup the ring of ciites with the cap in the middle, best way to guarrantee safety, i get nervous if i can't block the cap in all directions

Cobra · March 1, 2003, 05:08

Is your capital always in the middle of your land? Look at your saves. Mostly the capital is max. 5 fields away from coast.
If I never attacked one of your cities, there are in the normal case only 3 cheap units in a city at monarchy, 1 or 2 in republic. If I come along with 3 Ships with only 9 elephants, I need 4 elis to get a city at the coast, drive in with the 2 other ships and still have 5 elis to walk 3 steps on a road and attack the capital. Look at your saves, i bet in over 80% there would be a chance to make it, if someone knows your capital.

rah · March 1, 2003, 20:05

I won't have 3 cheap units in my cap. I know it's usually overkill but i seldomly scrimp on defending my cap. All it has to do is save you once or twice from the type of thing you propose (which has happened to me) and you don't mind wasting the production. If you catch my cap before 2600, it might work, but usually not afterwards. (based on usual 2x1x settings) But everyone gets a little nervous when the shiploads of elephants show up.

DrSpike · March 1, 2003, 21:59

Quote:

Originally posted by rah
But everyone gets a little nervous when the shiploads of elephants show up.

Especially those who might have chosen not to defend their cities.

War4ever · March 2, 2003, 15:14

i remember my cap having one weekness, a 8 tile inland lake......i remember having three whales and a wine, HG, colossus and the turn i was goin to build copernicus, five boats with ellies come across the lake and whammo.....cap goes from size 8 to 4 and i lose my wonders and the one i rushed wasn't even constructed.

i recaptured the city the next turn, but the damage was done, .....

yes ellies can hurt you if you have warriors

but once you have vet pike....ellies die a horrible death

i still defend like crap in many games, but in almost all games that i don't , someone tries to attack and fails miserably.....this keeps me "safe" for another few games.

this game is also about calculated risks, and some not so calculated chances you are willing to take.....

if you find me early like Rah said, i can be in trouble....but if not, you will need more than ellies to take MY cities

and expect anything you leave stacked close to my city or adjacent too to be smashed by vet pults

My Wife Hates CIV · March 5, 2003, 16:06

When playing against better than average players (the people here), I think the bigger risk is wasting time building 9 elephants and the ships to move them.

If your plan to invade a capital with that size force fails than you'll be so far behind the rest of the game...

And by the time you've built that army other players (leap froggin techs) will probably have far better defensive units anyway. Unless trading techs is not allowed anymore. dunno, been awhile since i've played.

rah · March 5, 2003, 17:39

Yes, due to our early experience leap froggin through the tech tree, tech trading is no longer allowed. Stealing is still encouraged but more difficult due to the tech steal city flag and a more aggressive defense to it.

Bloody Monk · March 5, 2003, 19:26

Quote:

Originally posted by rah
Yes, due to our early experience leap froggin through the tech tree, tech trading is no longer allowed. Stealing is still encouraged but more difficult due to the tech steal city flag and a more aggressive defense to it.

rah,

The flag you refer to is the one that allows only one tech to be stolen from any one city, right?? What is the "more aggressive defense" you mention??

Monk

DrSpike · March 5, 2003, 21:10

Right on the flag.

Aggressive defence is being proactive in this case. Don't wait for diplos to show up by your cities, actively patrol the border and "ask them nicely to leave".

Bloody Monk · March 6, 2003, 04:49

Thanks, DrSpike.

I thought you guys may have come up with something really new. I agree that wandering foreign dips have to be dealt with firmly. I love to see the box afterward with the objections by the AI.

Monk

DrSpike · March 6, 2003, 08:49

IIRC correctly Rah's group allow tech stealing agreements, which surely makes for some frantic guessing games as to diplos' intentions.

I always claim mine are on missions of peace, then get annoyed when they are killed.

rah · March 6, 2003, 09:25

BM, no nothing really new, just stubborness and traps. (on top of patrols) Stubborness is defined by spending >= 50 gold to rush a unit to try to stop one that you could have spent on something more beneficial. Traps are guessing which path a player will use to move the diplo up and covering it. (or placing that pike cat combo in that mountain range that you figure he'll be moving the pike diplo combo through)

Our quasi tech stealing agreements have generated the most fun. They are terminated at the most inopportune times, because

1. you feel you're getting the short end of the deal
2. you've got a slim lead on a wonder tech and you're fearful that you might get leap frogged.
3. you've got a tech lead and someone else has the GL and you don't want to let them have freebies.
4. you've got the war academy and it's a free vet promotion for a defensive unit.
5. all the opponents cities that you send diplos to have already had something stolen by someone else and he didn't bother to mention that to you.
6. the moron hit the wrong key the last time and destroyed a temple.
7. that diplo is just a bit too near a city where you're building that early wonder.
8. you just want to be a ****.
9. you just got gunpowder.

So even if you have a

tech stealling treaty with someone, you still protect/hide your diplos moving them up since we're all unpredictable bastards.

RAH
And spike, there are no PEACEFULL missions for diplos

DrSpike · March 6, 2003, 09:43

War always claims he asked the boys to peacefully expel my peaceful diplomat, but that they accidentally got rowdy and attacked.

Elephant · March 6, 2003, 18:42

Quote:

Originally posted by rah
4. you've got the war academy and it's a free vet promotion for a defensive unit. (expelling a Dip/Spy)

I didn't know that. Learn something new every day...

Bloody Monk · March 6, 2003, 19:13

@rah

Thanks for that expansive reply. I could not help thinking as I reread your list of possibles that you guys have thoroughly mastered the AI way of dealing with agreements/treaties. Devious bunch of bast**ds you have become.

But, that's a good thing!!

Monk

War4ever · March 7, 2003, 12:20

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike
War always claims he asked the boys to peacefully expel my peaceful diplomat, but that they accidentally got rowdy and attacked.

anyone sneaking around my territory or milling about is up to no good, didn't you see the sign that said no loitering