11th Turn Chat (From Turn 85 in the year 2300BC)

[Martin Gühmann]

Welcome to the 11th turn chat of our Great Nation Lemuria:

Edit: As only three peple appeared except me (The Ginger Bread Man, J Bytheway and later MrBaggins) we decided to postpne the turn Chat. New time is:

Day: 02/03/03 (Sunday)
Hour: 20:30 GMT

Place:
Lemuria Channel in the Apolyton Chat-Room.

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Questions to the member of government in order to collect the necessary orders:


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Questions to the President (Martin Gühmann):


Q1: How will you name our cities?
A1: Here is the answer:

In case we conquer Graz, it will keep its name
In case we conquer Wels, I am still not shure whether its name will be kept
The next new city we found or get by a ruin will be named Wombatoon
The following city we found or get by a ruin will be named Maqiudad

Q2: Will we change the PW rate?
A2: No, as we have nothing else to build except farms and we need all the production for new units.

Q3: Will we change the slider settings?
A3: Just in case of riots in one of our cities which would probably continue in the next turn. In that case more food is given to the people to stop the riots. However the currently more food is given to the people to aviod imminent riots. Unfortunatly this chokes the growth of our cities. There less food shall give to the people once the conquest distress in Graz disappeared and the low happiness in Pressburg was raised by a unit.


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Questions to the Minister of Domestic Affairs (MrBaggins):


Q4: What will the next three items for the build queues of all of our cities?

a) Pedrunnia
b) Colonia Locuta
c) H Town
d) mapfipolis
e) Pressburg
f) Graz

I think we should use the build queue feature in order to reduce the workload. We can modify the build queues later if necessary, anyway.

A4: ???

Q5: Will we change the specialist distribution in any city? If yes in which city and how?
A5: ???

Q6: We started to build the Ramajana in Pedrunnia should we continue or should we build another wonder or rather switch to unit production?
A6: ???

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Questions to the Minister of Infrastruture (ískallin):


Well we have neither the technology of Trade nor any PW to spend, but that shouldn't us prevent from planing our first tile improvements:

Q7: What are the best places for farms?
A7: ???

Q8: What are the best routes for roads?
A8: ???


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Questions to the Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science (Locutus):


Q9: What will be our attitude towards these civilisations, if we send them a proposal?

a) Austria
b) Scottland
c) Germany
d) Thailand
e) India
f) Israel

A9: ???

Well I still want to get the map of India.

Q10: To which of these civilisations mentioned above we should send a proposal, if any?
A10: ???

Q11: How will we get the map of Israel?
A11: ???

Q12: In case of a cease fire offer by the Austrians, should we accept or reject?
A12: ???

Q13: Should we continue researching Drama?
A13: ???

Q14: What will we research after the discovery of the next advance?
A14: ???

Q15: What will we do with the Hebrew settler near Graz?
A15: ???


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Questions to the Minister of Defense (Pedrunn):


Q16: What is the destination of our size 9 stack near H Town?
A16: ???

Q17: Will we use one unit to explore the Northern unexplored territory?
A17: ???

Q18: Will we use one unit to explore the Southern unexplored territory?
A18: ???

Q19: Will you name our armies? If yes how, and which army?
A19: ???

Q20: What will we do with the Hebrew settler near Graz?
A20: ???

Q21: What will we do with our other units?
A21: ???


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Questions to All Citizens:


Q22: Who wants to help me with the screenshots and game info? (Needs to be someone with CTP2 and some basic knowlegde and resources to graphic editing.)
A22: ???

Q23: Is there anything I forgot to ask for here?
A23: ???


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Please, if you are a minister confirm your presence or your absence!

Confirmed ministers (or delegates)
Martin Gühmann - President
??? - Minister of Domestic Affairs
??? - Minister of Infrastruture
??? - Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science
??? - Minister of Defense
??? - Graphic manager (screenshot helper)


-Martin

PS: The current known world in miniformat:

[Martin Gühmann]

The current overall Ranking:

[Martin Gühmann]

The science ranking:

[Martin Gühmann]

The Economic ranking:

[The Big Mc]

Martin you got the right forum

[Pedrunn]

Nice try, Martin

Lets see now if this time more people will show up

[Martin Gühmann]

I know I just PMed Locutus about the issure and I am going to PM Ming about it as well, to get this thread to the right place.

-Martin

Edit now I can use this post for a "little" picture of our world. If you have a slow connection be warned as the *.jpg file has a size of 1632kb.

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Mar...ann/MAPALL.jpg

[The Big Mc]

We could always make a new thread on the right section pointing here.

[HuangShang]

most likely, i'll be, missing it

if i can, i'll catch the very beginning

[Pedrunn]

As I said i wont be either in the chat or in apolyton in the next 4-5 days.

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Anyway, here are the orders for the next 7 turns:

A 16, 18, 19, 21
TURN 1 - Move Warrior in mapfipolis South an call it 'Goodsight'. Move 1 Hoplite from mapfipolis to Cl. Move 2 Hoplites form CL to Pedrunnia. If mo enemy sighted in those moves, move 2 holites from Pedrunnia to Graz along the river. The 9-size stack shall by now be called 'Lemuforce'. The old Lemuforce as many have imagined is now called 'Graz Defense'. Stand still the Lemuforce only move the wounded hoplites H Town.

TURN 2 - Move Goodsight SW. Continue moving unit as said in the first turn. Stand still Lemuforce. The units must have arrived in their cities except for the stack to Graz.

TURN 3 - Move goodsight south. Move Lemuforce NW if no enemy threat was sighted near Graz otherwise if a threat that cant be handle by its defenses send the Lemuforce to destroy this threat. After moved NW add units from H Town to Lemuforce to create a size 8 army (4H and 4A). Than move NW agin along the river.

TURN 4-5 - Goodsight now is controlled by the people in the chat who will tell them where to go since i can predict his next steps.
The other two hopltes from Pedrunnia shall arrive this turn in Graz (By this time the Graz defense is (4H/4A). The Lemuforce is heading Wels. Any other needed move due the next events will be decided in the chat. We may consider add some units from Pressburg in the stack but i do not think it will be necessary.

TURN 6 - Wels attack. After conquered we need to decide what to do with wels in order to make a decision here.

After this time it will all depends on the fate of Wels. To decide its fate the chat has to be closed anyway... Other than that my delegate can decide for the best interest of the nation.

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A 17
As I see 'No'. We have very few units to make such mission. Maybe after Wels attack...

A 20 This will have to be decide in the chat. We cant let other civ to get the few good spots left in the world. There are already too few near us. But the Diplomacy loss has to thought. Sorry, I should have made a poll about this...
If you ask my oppinion, I reluctant would say expel it.

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I only wish my delegate does a ministery of defense poll like this. And come up with a plan.

Martin, We know every minister has you as delegate in some level. But as a advice from the former President. Dont try to play the role of another minister AND president during the chat. Give the delegate position to someone else. Things will get very slow if you do. I have experienced...

Seeya all in four days.

[miggio]

I will not be in attendance. I have to work at 20:00 GMT thats 3 o'clock my time.

[Martin Gühmann]

Unfortunatly only three people beside me appeared, as this turn shut is hold for the people of Lemuria, the turn chat is rescheduled on Sunday the 2nd of March. Plese post here whether you can show or not.

-Martin

[MrBaggins]

I will likely be able to attend

[Martin Gühmann]

A Barbarian on the way to Graz.

[Martin Gühmann]

The minimap after the two map exchanges with Israel and India.

[MrBaggins]

Area around Wels after we captured (no defenders)
2240BC

[mapfi]

Where is the savegame, some info on the current status and the log??!!!

[Martin Gühmann]

Good question, mapfi. Unfortunatly I wasn't able to reach Apolyton after the chat even if the I was able to ping Apolyton, so it has to be posted now:

<MartinGuehmann> 11TH TURN CHAT STARTED
<MartinGuehmann> OK what is our first thing to do, I think we should do the diplomacy first
<MartinGuehmann> So what about Israel?
<Tamerlin> OK, I think we should first ask a map
<MartinGuehmann> A map exange, and if necessary threat them?
<Tamerlin> Yes, do you want an order?
<MartinGuehmann> I guess I have an order.
<Tamerlin>
<MartinGuehmann> So I am doing it.
<MartinGuehmann> I forgot what should be the tone?
<Tamerlin> Friendly/Equal
<MartinGuehmann> OK
<Tamerlin> It has been rejected on my comp
<MartinGuehmann> Well first the offer, then the request and after the threat they accepted.
<Tamerlin> Threaten... accepted also
<Tamerlin> I think we should now expell the Settler
<MartinGuehmann> Yes
<Tamerlin>
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah doing it.
<Tamerlin> Done!
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah, done, too!
<Tamerlin> India?
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah, Indea, the same procedure as Israel?
<MartinGuehmann> Or some gold first as they are closer?
<Tamerlin> We should first offer them 100 gold as it was suggested by Locutus, they are not very friendly.
<MartinGuehmann> OK some gold first, and then next turn the map exchange?
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> ok, giving them 100 gold
<MartinGuehmann> Same tone as Israel?
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> OK, India got 100 gold.
<MartinGuehmann> So that should be the diplomatic part of that turn.
<Tamerlin> Done, btw, how to get rid off the CtP2 chat windows...
<Tamerlin> And yes to your answer.
<MartinGuehmann> press enter while it is empty
<Tamerlin> Thanks
* mrbaggins has joined #lemuria
<mrbaggins> hi
<Tamerlin> Hi MrBaggins!
<mrbaggins> how are you, Tamerlin?
<MartinGuehmann> Hi MrB, fine you are here.
<Tamerlin> Fine and you?
<mrbaggins> hi Martin
<mrbaggins> very well
<mrbaggins> yep... pleased I could make it too
<mrbaggins> I finished reinstalling and actually have CTP2 running all the necessary mods... and loading the game
<mrbaggins> which is kinda necessary
<Tamerlin> We have just started a few minutes ago, map exchange accepted by Israel after threat, Israelian Settler expelled and 100 gold given to India...
<MartinGuehmann> So we already started, as the constitutions says: "The President shall physically play the game on a regular and scheduled basis whenever possible and post the save and a complete report of the game events to the forum." as I think we have all necessary orders we can continue.
<MartinGuehmann> So MrB what are your orders for the build queue of mapfipolis, alternative build order like suggested in the 10th turn chat thread?
<mrbaggins> yes
<mrbaggins> just a second and let me confirm that
<MartinGuehmann> OK I filled it with three more units, so it contains now A H A H
<Tamerlin> Have you already changed the build queue, I would have to update my game
<MartinGuehmann> I already did it but wait for MrBaggins reply
<Tamerlin> What are the changes?
<mrbaggins> alternate at both Colonia Locuta and Mapfipolis
<Tamerlin> Replacing current build queue or added to them?
<mrbaggins> ensure that Graz has 3 hoplites at the head of the queue
<mrbaggins> replacing
<MartinGuehmann> added a Hopelite an Archer and a Hoplite
<MartinGuehmann> For Graz that should be true I check it...
<Tamerlin> OK, A H A H is the final build queue...
<MartinGuehmann> Three Hoplites in Graz' build queue
<MartinGuehmann> Yes Tamerlin
<MartinGuehmann> So MrBaggins...
<mrbaggins> go on
<MartinGuehmann> OK, the unit moves...
<Tamerlin> I already have 3 H in Graz, does it mean I add three new ones for a total of 6?
<mrbaggins> no
<Tamerlin> OK
<mrbaggins> just ensure there are 3
<Tamerlin> Done!
<MartinGuehmann> One warrior from mapfipolis should be taken to explore the South
<MartinGuehmann> I already seperated it from the other units and called it Goodsight
<mrbaggins> hang on one sec.. just catching up
<MartinGuehmann> Pedrunn's order for it is one quare South
<MartinGuehmann> Ok, ...
<Tamerlin> The separated unit is a H it should be a warrior...
<MartinGuehmann> Yes, but that uit was build last turn, so I didn't done it last turn chat, I did it before this turn chat
<MartinGuehmann> But you can leave the Hopelite seperated
<Tamerlin> OK, I do it!
<Tamerlin> OK
<Tamerlin> Unit moved
<MartinGuehmann> Not yet, but it goes to the South
<mrbaggins> so CL and mapfipolis Archer/Hoplite/Archer/Hoplite ok?
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> Changed the build queue of CL
<mrbaggins> hmmm
<MartinGuehmann> so any other build queue to change?
<mrbaggins> maybe that should be archer/archer/hoplite/archer/hoplite
<mrbaggins> for CL
<mrbaggins> it has a bunch of hoplites
<mrbaggins> that will even it out
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> as first item another archer, so ok
<mrbaggins> no changes to other build queues
<mrbaggins> just another archer at the head of CL
<Tamerlin> Done!
<mrbaggins> cool
<mrbaggins> ok
<mrbaggins> anything else we need to do this turn?
<MartinGuehmann> However we should them move two Hopelites to Pedrunnia according Pedrunn's orders anyway
<MartinGuehmann> Well, let's move all units first and see then again
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> I disabled the automated turn cycle already
<mrbaggins> right
<MartinGuehmann> So the warrior of mapfipolis: one South
<mrbaggins> done here
<Tamerlin> done
<mrbaggins> do you want me to do screencaps, btw?
<mrbaggins> i'll just save them as we do and post them later
<MartinGuehmann> Yes, if you like
<Tamerlin> It would be great
<MartinGuehmann> The next unit to move is a hopelite from mapfipois to CL
<Tamerlin> Done
<MartinGuehmann> Done, and now two Hopelites from CL to Pedrunnia
<MartinGuehmann> Done
<mrbaggins> done
<Tamerlin> done
<MartinGuehmann> So two hopelites from Pedrunnia to Graz
<mrbaggins> so question for you guys
<MartinGuehmann> Ok
<mrbaggins> forget it... its ok
<Tamerlin> ok
<MartinGuehmann> OK let's move the two Hopelites from Pedrunnia to Graz
<Tamerlin> done
<MartinGuehmann> OK done, I used the river route
<Tamerlin> So do I, default route proposed
<MartinGuehmann> Shouldn't be a big difference
<mrbaggins> fine by me
<mrbaggins> done
<MartinGuehmann> So the next army to move or not to move is the size nine stack near H Town
<mrbaggins> i'll screencap
<MartinGuehmann> Yup
<mrbaggins> ahh...
<MartinGuehmann> from now on it is called Lemuforce, and the units inside Graz: Graz defence
<mrbaggins> ok
<Tamerlin> OK, our next target should be Wels so I guess the Lemuforce should move to the south I am correct about Wels location
<mrbaggins> no
<mrbaggins> Wels is to the north
<mrbaggins> on the river
<MartinGuehmann> The Lemuforce should stand still for two turns I think
<Tamerlin>
<mrbaggins> directly NE of Pressburg
<mrbaggins> thats ok by me
<MartinGuehmann> Two units the wounded ones of it should be moved to H Town for restoration
<mrbaggins> I am in favor of moving it earlier
<mrbaggins> do you think we need 9 units for Wels?
<mrbaggins> if not... why not move one of the wounded units to Graz instead
<Tamerlin> The only town I have to the North is Linz
<mrbaggins> it will get the (more vulnerable) city up to speed quicker
<mrbaggins> you see the gap in the borders?
<MartinGuehmann> Well we could reach Wels quicker
<mrbaggins> if we don't need the 9th in the stack, why not just leave him in Graz, ASAP?
<MartinGuehmann> In Pedrunns plan we need 8 units the two Hopelites should be healed in Graz
<MartinGuehmann> So we could replace it
<mrbaggins> fine by me
<MartinGuehmann> Of course it should be healed in H Town
<Tamerlin> ok
<mrbaggins> so move the 2 units to HTown
<MartinGuehmann> So I move the wounded units to H Town
<Tamerlin> Sorry to bother you again with you but I don't see Wels on my map
<mrbaggins> its not shown
<mrbaggins> but you can see it by the abscence of the border
<MartinGuehmann> Yup move the cursor over the orange square
<mrbaggins> walk 5 squares ne from Pressburg and one square N
<mrbaggins> thats where Wels is
<Tamerlin> Move done... ok for wels
<Tamerlin> OK I confounded North with South for a while, sorry... so does we move Lemuforce along the river to reach Wels?
<MartinGuehmann> By the way MrBaggins do you see also the Hebrew settler near Wels?
<mrbaggins> yes
<mrbaggins> thats affirmative
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> So move Lemuforce two North West, that should it be
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> and add the hopelite from H Town then to the stack
<Tamerlin> Done
<MartinGuehmann> OK done a size 8 stack goes to Wels
<MartinGuehmann> So let's take a look on the build queue of CL
<MartinGuehmann> I think we should now remove the Archer from the front of the build queue
<Tamerlin> A-A-H-A-H
<mrbaggins> let me check
<mrbaggins> i'll refresh the orders
<mrbaggins> i think they'll be a couple of changes
<mrbaggins> based on what we are doing
<mrbaggins> ok
<mrbaggins> remove a hoplite from Graz queue
<Tamerlin> unchanged?
<mrbaggins> remove an archer from CL queue
<mrbaggins> add an archer to HTown queue
<mrbaggins> (not replace, insert at the front)
<mrbaggins> that should even everything out, based on the orders we are going for
<mrbaggins> (or remove from the front of the queue
<MartinGuehmann> Ok H Town queue now: A A H A
<mrbaggins> yes
<mrbaggins> Graz queue
<mrbaggins> H H
<mrbaggins> and CL queue A H A H
<MartinGuehmann> Both queues are identic
<MartinGuehmann> so any additions ro Graz' queue?
<Tamerlin> OK for me
<MartinGuehmann> ro -> to
<mrbaggins> not for now
<Tamerlin> I suppose the units in Graz should be grouped and fortified
<mrbaggins> we have a few turns to go... then i'll add based on the situation
<MartinGuehmann> OK that should be all, end turn now?
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> Of course fortify them
<Tamerlin> done, end turn?
<MartinGuehmann> So, END TURN 85
<Tamerlin> Race for a wonder and India proposing a map we should of course accept...

Session Start: Sun Mar 02 23:20:50 2003
Session Ident: #Lemuria
* Now talking in #Lemuria
* Topic is 'CtP2 Democracy Game'
* Set by Locutus on Wed Feb 26 00:58:10
<mrbaggins> wb MartinGuehmann
<MartinGuehmann> Well I am back
<mrbaggins> did you crash?
<Tamerlin> I didn't noticed MrB
<MartinGuehmann> Once I hit the end turn button my computer hang
<mrbaggins> ack...
<mrbaggins> no save?
<Tamerlin>
<MartinGuehmann> The only solution was to hit the restet button on my computer
<mrbaggins> ok
<MartinGuehmann> No save but that shouldn't be a problem
<mrbaggins> not really
<mrbaggins> you do need to replay 2300BC I guess
<MartinGuehmann> Yes but that shouldn't be such a huge problem, evrything should be clear
<MartinGuehmann> so I start CTP2 now and quicksave before I it the end turn button
<Tamerlin> OK
<mrbaggins> ok...
<mrbaggins> sounds wise
<Tamerlin> I do it every turn
<mrbaggins> so... Tamerlin
<mrbaggins> question for you as MoD
<mrbaggins> I want to found a city using a settler
<Tamerlin> About the Wels attack?
<Tamerlin> Oh!
<MartinGuehmann> So I moved now every unit
<MartinGuehmann> Now I have to get the build queue right
<Tamerlin> Do we have a settler ready?
<mrbaggins> we will
<MartinGuehmann> Build order of CL was A H A H right?
<mrbaggins> yes
<MartinGuehmann> Same for mapfipolis?
<MartinGuehmann> And for H Town: A A H A
<Tamerlin> yes
<mrbaggins> yes
<MartinGuehmann> And two hopelites in Graz
<mrbaggins> yes
<MartinGuehmann> How much do you have in your game?
<MartinGuehmann> I need to know if I already gave the gold to India
<Tamerlin> 1302
<MartinGuehmann> So I must have give them the gold
<MartinGuehmann> So I can end turn again
<MartinGuehmann> Well in a case of a map exange offer I will accept it
<Tamerlin> yes
<MartinGuehmann> OK END TURN 85 (again)
<MartinGuehmann> OK we know now the map of India
<MartinGuehmann> OK moving the warrior of mapfipolis (called now Goodsight) to the South
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> Done, units arrived in CL and Pedrunnia
<Tamerlin> done
<MartinGuehmann> Next issure is the Lemurforce, I think it should be moved along the river to Wels
<Tamerlin> Yes
<mrbaggins> yes
<MartinGuehmann> Moved the stack
<Tamerlin> Done
<MartinGuehmann> And grouped the new Archer in H Town into the defender army
<Tamerlin> Done
<MartinGuehmann> The two Hopelites from Pedrunnia were moved automaticly along the river and encountered a Barbarian warrior
<MartinGuehmann> they can't be moved anymore
<mrbaggins> where?
<Tamerlin> No barbs for me
<Tamerlin> My Hoplites are on the crops tile though, this was the automatic move proposed.
<MartinGuehmann> Well, we have to ignore the Barb this turn anyway.
<MartinGuehmann> Well I moved them along the river, so that is the difference
* mapfi has joined #lemuria
<MartinGuehmann> OK, nothing left so far I can see
<MartinGuehmann> Hi mapfi
<Tamerlin> Let see what happens, I would use the cheat menu if something is wrong, hi Mapfi
<mrbaggins> i moved them along the river and dont see them
<mapfi> hi everyone
<MartinGuehmann> No cheating here
<Tamerlin> But I am not playing the official game, you are, it is a matter of consistency for my game...
<MartinGuehmann> Well, I would now end the turn, or should I do a screenie, before
<mapfi> just stopping by to see if anything was going on since the forum doesn't tell - haven't really got time - pity you're only three
<Tamerlin> I am sure mapfi would appreciate a screenshot...
<MartinGuehmann> OK, doing it
<Tamerlin> About a settler and a place to settle, I think our southern warrior will tell us if there is something to settle anymore MrBaggins.
<mrbaggins> i can still see a spot
<Tamerlin> Near the potato SE of Graz?
<MartinGuehmann> Screenshot posted
<Tamerlin> Cities would be too close.
* Zaphod has joined #lemuria
<MartinGuehmann> Hi Zaphod
<Zaphod> hi folks
<Zaphod> am i too late?
<MartinGuehmann> No
<Zaphod> too early? ;-)
<Tamerlin> Hi Zaphod
<Tamerlin> Nor too early nor too late...
<MartinGuehmann> OK, I think we should continue
<Tamerlin> End turn?
<MartinGuehmann> Turn 86 every unit is mobved
<MartinGuehmann> so any new proposal
<MartinGuehmann> any build queue changes?
<Zaphod> any major event so far?
<MartinGuehmann> Well we got the map of India and of Israel
<Zaphod> :-) is there a screen somewhere?
<MartinGuehmann> We threatened Israel and India offered it
<Tamerlin> We are moving to attack Wels, maps, barbs between Pedrunnia and Graz... Martin has just posted a screenshot.
<MartinGuehmann> Screenies about the new maps not yet, MrBaggins wanted to post some.
<MartinGuehmann> So end turn now?
<Zaphod> ic
<Zaphod> who's doing which job at the moment?
<Tamerlin> I am Locutus delegate though now mapfi is here he should be delegate as he is first in the list as far as I remember...
<mrbaggins> hi
<mrbaggins> no queue changes
<mrbaggins> i could do screen caps but where are these barbarians?
<mrbaggins> on the river?
<MartinGuehmann> OK, I posted the minimap
<Tamerlin> south of the river I suppose
<MartinGuehmann> Tamerlin, you should read Locutus post about delegates in the Government announcement thread again
<Zaphod> hm, still a lot of lands (or seas?) unknown to the south
<Tamerlin> I have just read it again, it's all right
<MartinGuehmann> OK, I think we should now end the turn, so any objection?
<Tamerlin> no
<mrbaggins> fine by me
<MartinGuehmann> OK, END TURN 86 and this time I save before

[Martin Gühmann]

<MartinGuehmann> The Barbarians disappeared
<MartinGuehmann> So I think I should move the stack on the river now to Graz
<mrbaggins> ok
<mrbaggins> how far do they end up?
<Tamerlin> They never appeared on my comp... Aristotle's Lyceum launched by the Turks. And yes for the units
<mrbaggins> how many squares from Graz?
<MartinGuehmann> I think two but CTP2 just crashed again.
<MartinGuehmann> But this time I have the autosave and teh quick save
<Tamerlin> Two for me, in Graz next turn... Aaargh!
<mrbaggins> ahhh
<MartinGuehmann> So I restart my computer again
* Disconnected
Session Close: Mon Mar 03 00:00:20 2003

Session Start: Mon Mar 03 00:07:30 2003
Session Ident: #Lemuria
* Now talking in #Lemuria
* Topic is 'CtP2 Democracy Game'
* Set by Locutus on Wed Feb 26 00:58:10
<MartinGuehmann> Well I am back
<MartinGuehmann> the game is restarted
<Zaphod> wb mr president
<mrbaggins> yep
<MartinGuehmann> unfortunatly the Barbarian moved this time in directon of Graz
<MartinGuehmann> So let's play on
<mrbaggins> ok... so where is it in relation to Graz?
<Tamerlin> Just in case Martin reload slic before ending the turn it has helped me solve a recent problem with a game file.
<MartinGuehmann> Well that tile it was a blue death as alt tabbed between CTP2 an mIRC
<MartinGuehmann> I hope the culprit is Mozilla 1.3a
<MartinGuehmann> so I use better next time Netscape 4.78
<MartinGuehmann> OK we have now our units
<mrbaggins> right
<MartinGuehmann> Lemur force is on the river towards Graz
<Tamerlin> Yes
<mrbaggins> move 2 towards Wels
<mapfi> well - hope you move along some more -gotta go
<MartinGuehmann> I think we should move it towards Wels
<MartinGuehmann> Yes Wels
* mapfi has quit IRC (Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com))
<mrbaggins> should be 2 tiles south of Wels, right?
<Zaphod> how big is our attack force?
<mrbaggins> 8
<mrbaggins> 4 h 4a
<MartinGuehmann> If the automove is already executed then Yes
<Tamerlin> German settler south east of Lemuforce
<mrbaggins> right
<MartinGuehmann> I have a German settler West of the Glass good
<mrbaggins> where can you move the units heading to graz up to?
<MartinGuehmann> I can move the two units to the tile west of Graz
<MartinGuehmann> the South Western tile is blocked by the Barbarian Warrior's ZOC
<mrbaggins> you should do so then
<MartinGuehmann> OK I move them to the quare West of Graz
<MartinGuehmann> Done
<MartinGuehmann> Goodsight is left
<mrbaggins> sw?
<MartinGuehmann> I would move it South to the border with India
<Tamerlin> yes
<MartinGuehmann> This way we would reveal most of the unknown tiles
<mrbaggins> but we arre moving into a dead end
<mrbaggins> we need to explore sw not s
<mrbaggins> we can't move over the border, anyway
<Tamerlin> We will then move it to the west, we need to now what is close to our borders
<mrbaggins> sw is a good compromise
<MartinGuehmann> Well S we would reveal more tiles
<Tamerlin> Agreed
<mrbaggins> either way is fine by me
<mrbaggins> your call Tamerlin
<MartinGuehmann> If we move two tiles SW then we are there as if we move one South and then one West
<Tamerlin> South
<MartinGuehmann> So I go South
* mrbaggins nods
<MartinGuehmann> Zaphod?
<Zaphod> since i have no current map, i have no opinion on that question
<MartinGuehmann> OK it is south now
<Tamerlin> OK
<mrbaggins> where are the barbs... i'll do a screencap
<mrbaggins> due south of graz?
<Zaphod> but speaking generally, i think there is no need to rush exploration too much, better to see all i a few turn more
<MartinGuehmann> The Barbs are South SouthWest of Graz
<mrbaggins> ssw
<mrbaggins> ok
<Zaphod> graz is still defended by 1h 4a?
<Tamerlin> 5 units Thailandese stack SW of the tea tile near our warrior in the south
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> Yes Tamerlin SW SW of the warrior
<Tamerlin> Yep, and one H will be ready in Graz next turn Zaphod
<Zaphod> so that lonesome barb shoudln't be a problem, unless he begins to pillage
<mrbaggins> ok... let me post a screenie then
<Zaphod> :-)
<MartinGuehmann> Yep
<MartinGuehmann> By the way I lowered the food slider one notch so taht our cities can grow faster
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> So all units are moved
<MartinGuehmann> End turn?
<Tamerlin> Wels seems undefended, I don't have the crossed swords when I order the Lemuforce to move in Wels... yes, end turn!
<MartinGuehmann> I think we only see the swords if we can see the city
<MartinGuehmann> So MRBaggins end turn?
<Tamerlin> No, I have tested it by putting the mouse on Dusseldorf...
<Zaphod> uhoh, don't let the germans know that ;-)
<Tamerlin>
<MartinGuehmann> No crossed sword on Pilsen, Colongne, and Villach
<MartinGuehmann> All these cities aren't shown as icon on the map
<MartinGuehmann> We see this next turn
<MartinGuehmann> So end turn?
<Zaphod> no objections
<Tamerlin> Martin, Zaphod is busy posting a screenshot, the Austrians are perhaps at war with another nation and have removed their units. OK for end of turn.
<Zaphod> no, i'm not busy
<mrbaggins> yes
<MartinGuehmann> END TURN 87
<mrbaggins> zaphod is posting a screenie?
* mrbaggins smiles
<mrbaggins> i just put together a composite
<Zaphod> i could post a screenie of my current cradle game, if you want me to ;-)
<MartinGuehmann> OK, the Barbarian was killed ny an Austrian Samurai
<MartinGuehmann> ny -> by
<mrbaggins> ok
<MartinGuehmann> The Thai stack is now West of the tea good
<mrbaggins> so... we can attack Wels now?
<MartinGuehmann> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> So I move the stack one towards Wels
<Tamerlin> Austrian Hoplite west of Graz, Barbarians (2 units) NE>NE of Warrior Goodsight, ok for Thai stack.
<Tamerlin> Attack Wels?
<mrbaggins> ok
<MartinGuehmann> Wels is a size 2 city and is undefended
<MartinGuehmann> So march in
<mrbaggins> agreed
<MartinGuehmann> Extend empire?
<mrbaggins> yes
<Zaphod> y
<mrbaggins> completely unimproved
<Tamerlin> Agreed, btw I have cross swords over Troppau
<mrbaggins> just the city walls
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah we see Troppau on the map
<mrbaggins> so...
<Tamerlin> Do we change the settings in Wels?
<mrbaggins> lets disband it and get the people moving to the new site
<mrbaggins> escorted by this 8 stack
<Zaphod> is there a new site chosen?
<mrbaggins> the suggestion from much earlier, that is still available
<Zaphod> how many farms/etc. are there around wels?
<mrbaggins> is the site to the east of the potato
<mrbaggins> just to the south
<mrbaggins> no farms or improvement around Wels
<Tamerlin> No it's north of H Town
<Zaphod> well, i for sure could need a screen or a savegame to say anything
<mrbaggins> ok
<mrbaggins> captured... and about to post
<MartinGuehmann> Disband or not disband, that is a good question
<Tamerlin> I don't think we should disband Wels, we are desperately in need of cities when we could settle the potato site later.
<Zaphod> i agree
<mrbaggins> ok
<mrbaggins> is posted
<Zaphod> thanks
<mrbaggins> right... here is the situation
<mrbaggins> if we keep Wels
<mrbaggins> we need to leave these defenders here
<mrbaggins> at least some
<MartinGuehmann> Well and your poll is not closed and 2 pro disbanding and 1 contra disbanding is not enough to decide
<mrbaggins> we don't get to take them back to Pedrunnia to possibly disband for the wonder
<mrbaggins> we only maybe get to take 4 back
<mrbaggins> the site is really poor
<Tamerlin> No, an Hoplite will be ended in one turn in Wels, we don't need to let a unit
<Zaphod> if we leave 4 there that will be enough
<mrbaggins> any majority is enough
<Tamerlin> IMO, We need our units elsewhere let Wels build its own defenders.
<MartinGuehmann> BTW how much give a disbanded unit
<Zaphod> that site is poor yet, but it can develop. look at all these hills waiting to be mined
<mrbaggins> it takes 1 turn off of the wonder... basically
<mrbaggins> so 8 units... 8 turns
<mrbaggins> those hills will be very costly
<MartinGuehmann> Another point to keep Wels is that we have to foreign settlers her that will likely fill that place
<mrbaggins> to mine
<mrbaggins> thats ok... its a crappy spot anyway
<mrbaggins> i'm for expanding east and west... and sw
<Tamerlin> So far no other nation has started the Ramajana, so IMO we don't need to think about rushing it now.
<Zaphod> and will generate lots of production, after they're mined
<mrbaggins> not a *lot*
<mrbaggins> size is what we are after anyway
<MartinGuehmann> No, at least to civs started the Ramajana
<mrbaggins> if it doesn't grow... it doesn't matter anyway
<MartinGuehmann> Well it has now a farmer
<Zaphod> when did they start?
<Zaphod> these are things that have to be public!
<MartinGuehmann> 1500 people will added next turn
<Tamerlin> I have missed those two Martin, thaks for the info
<mrbaggins> this site will grow much slower than the southern potato site
<mrbaggins> much much slower
<Zaphod> yes thanks martin, i presume you aren't the one who didn't tell us about
<MartinGuehmann> 10th Turn chat transkript
<mrbaggins> that site has a lot of growth potential
<Tamerlin> We should remove the farmer from wels and produce a Hoplite (ready in one turn)
<mrbaggins> i'm still in favor of disbanding Wels
<Tamerlin> We should keep the farmer this turn it doesn't help us this turn to remove it... so any order about Wels, Disband? Produce a H?
<Zaphod> well, i guess such info would be worth an article in an announcement, i don't read all the turnchat logs everytime, and i presume there are a lot of people who don't even look at them
<mrbaggins> MoDA order> disband Wels

[Martin Gühmann]

<MartinGuehmann> Well if we disband Wels then not this turn chat
<Tamerlin> Martin must give its approval...
<mrbaggins> no... the vote must be approved...
<mrbaggins> which it is at the mo
<MartinGuehmann> It is approved in 20 hours
<Zaphod> it isn't anymore, should have checked for new threads before i logged in ;-)
<Tamerlin> I read the turn chat log but I must admit I have not read the last one. We should nonetheless produce an H as it will be ready next turn, even if we disband it we will have a new H almost free
<Zaphod> get that hoplite, we can't move the troops this turn anyway
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah I second that we shouldn't waste the production stored in Wels
<mrbaggins> i disagree
<mrbaggins> and have voted now in favor of disbanding
<MartinGuehmann> The city is still size one next turn
<mrbaggins> I want to start the potato site to the south ASAP
<mrbaggins> plus have the option to disband all 8 troops in Pedrunnia ASAP
<mrbaggins> in case we have issues with a wonder race
<Tamerlin> There is a tie in the "authorization to disband Wels" thread...
<mrbaggins> it already will take us 8 turns to get to Pedrunnia from here
<Tamerlin> We don't need to let the army here, Wels will build its own defence...
<Zaphod> which is an argument not to rely on those troops for wonderbuilding, you don't know what happens during 8 turns and whether the units have to be ordered back to the front just when they arrive in the capitl
<mrbaggins> it has serious happiness issues
<Tamerlin> The city has just been conquered, whatsoever we should not disband it now, our army can not move anymore and an H will be ready the following turn...
<MartinGuehmann> Yes, so how many unit do we need to add maximum martial law?
<Tamerlin> Isn't it three under Despotism?
<MartinGuehmann> Maximum is 4
<MartinGuehmann> I mean maximum happiness from martial law
<mrbaggins> ok
<MartinGuehmann> but how many units I need for it
<Zaphod> lets have a look at the happiness stats next turn, we can't do anything this turn anyway up there
<mrbaggins> posted a notice of official intent
<Tamerlin> A what?
<mrbaggins> wels is to be disbanded irrespective of the vote
<Tamerlin>
<Tamerlin> If the vote is not in your favor you risk being courted (though not by me)
<Zaphod> so why do you let people vote, if you're not interested in their opionion?
<mrbaggins> no.. i risk being voted out next term...
<MartinGuehmann> Well that decision has to be explained deeper
<mrbaggins> ok... here is my thinking
<mrbaggins> 1... wonder rushing
<mrbaggins> we need as many spare troops in Pedrunnia ASAP
<MartinGuehmann> You can only disband a city evaluated through an official poll
<mrbaggins> if many civs are building different wonders, and they can also swich production between wonders
<mrbaggins> switch
<mrbaggins> then we can effectively waste all the production in Pedrunnia
<MartinGuehmann> We can also switch
<mrbaggins> by not having anything left to build
<mrbaggins> if they finish before us
<MartinGuehmann> Yes, but we can also move units from CL and mapfipolis
<Tamerlin> I understand your arguments MrBaggins but I don't agree with you, IMO we should keep wels, but why not ending this turn producing the H and speak about it later.
<mrbaggins> because we can't delay in making the decision...
<mrbaggins> any turns delay means waste... if you disband, the settler has no move points
<Tamerlin> We can't delay it one turn, our army can not move any more...
<Tamerlin> We can delay it, sorry...
<mrbaggins> right... but if we disband now.. then the settler can move on the turn the army can
<mrbaggins> if we delay it, then the army can't move until 1 turn later
<Tamerlin> Isn't a free Hoplite worth a turn?
<mrbaggins> yes... and we sell the city walls
<MartinGuehmann> I aggree a free hopelite is worth a turn
<mrbaggins> ok... we build the hoplite... sell the walls then disband?
<MartinGuehmann> I wouldn't continue the turn chat anyway if I next action is disbanding Wels
<mrbaggins> its fine by me
<Tamerlin> So let's go on and we will discuss about selling and disbanding the Town later why not through the threads if we stop the game tonight... agreed.
<Zaphod> so we can end it here anyways, as long as mrbaggins insists on disbanding, regardless what the populations of our democracy say
<Zaphod> s
<MartinGuehmann> OK, let's finish the turn
<MartinGuehmann> And discuss the disbanded in the threads
<Tamerlin> We have agreed about the H so I think we should finish the turn
<mrbaggins> no... actually what martin said was right... we can't disband till we finish the vote
<Tamerlin>
<Zaphod> what about that austrian unit near graz?
<Tamerlin> We should attack it, I am almost sure it is here to pillage a tile.
<MartinGuehmann> IT is a half damaged samurai
<Zaphod> so finish it off
<mrbaggins> 1h 1a
<MartinGuehmann> We can't reach it this turn
<Zaphod> and how far away from our southern towns is that thai stack?
<Tamerlin> I don't have any Samurai on my game...
<Zaphod> can we move the units out of graz without loosing the necessary military suppression?
<MartinGuehmann> The Thai stack is 4 or 5 tiles away from mapfipolis
<MartinGuehmann> We can't
<Tamerlin> 5 tiles from Mapfipolis, 6 from Locutia
<Zaphod> ok, that answers the samurai question
<Tamerlin> But we have two units reaching Graz this turn...
<Zaphod> haven''t they been moved yet?
<MartinGuehmann> There aren't moved yet
<Tamerlin> No!
<MartinGuehmann> So should they go to Graz now?
<Zaphod> how far are they away from the sam?
<MartinGuehmann> Two turns
<MartinGuehmann> Attack next turn possible if it stays there
<Tamerlin> We could attack the H west of Graz and reinforce Graz with the new ones
<Tamerlin> We should...
<Zaphod> perhaps only one h should head to graz and 1 a be sent to meet with the other? since i have no map, its rather difficult for me
<MartinGuehmann> There is no H West of Graz to attack
<Tamerlin> In my game, I have an Austrian Hoplite west of Graz
<mrbaggins> ok.. i gotta go
<mrbaggins> no changes as per build queues
<MartinGuehmann> Yes, but in my game I have an half damged Samurai S SW of Graz
<Tamerlin> Bye MrBaggins
<Zaphod> the one that killed the barb
<mrbaggins> except build a hoplite in Wels
<MartinGuehmann> Bye Mrbaggins
<Zaphod> cu mrbaggins
<mrbaggins> i'll see you all in the forums
* mrbaggins has quit IRC (Quit: )
<MartinGuehmann> So desitination of the hopelites?
<Tamerlin> The hoplites can't attack the Samurai I guess?
<MartinGuehmann> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> So we could just wait and see if it comes closer to Graz
<MartinGuehmann> And finish it there
<Zaphod> we could alternatively begin to hunt it, better kill them, when they are alone and injured, than to wait till they combine
<Tamerlin> I would rather agree with Martin, as we don't have any TI beyond one tile this is not a problem... build a Hoplite in Wels.
<MartinGuehmann> They could escape as it can move two tiles per turn
<MartinGuehmann> So move the Hopelites to Graz?
<Tamerlin> Yes
<Zaphod> ok
<MartinGuehmann> OK
<MartinGuehmann> OK, goodsight is left
<Tamerlin> The Warrior "Goodsight" should be moved to the west
<MartinGuehmann> I don't think that is a good idea, as there is the Thai size 6 (or 5) stack then only one tile away
<MartinGuehmann> So better to move it NW
<MartinGuehmann> Tamerlin?
<Tamerlin> We will be killed by the Barbarian units while we are at peace with the thai and our relations are neutral
<MartinGuehmann> Were are Barbarians?
<MartinGuehmann> Well the Thais might be neutral and at peace, but I don't trust them
<Tamerlin> I have a 2 units barbarian stack NE>NE of Goodsight but it seems this is not your case in your game so ok for NW
<Zaphod> generally, if you offer them a good oppurtunity to act foolish they agree to, bloody ai :-(
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah frenzy
<Tamerlin> Isn't the Frenzy code only activated when the Human player is ahead
<MartinGuehmann> OK went NW
<Zaphod> i thought it would be activated, when the human starts to conquer cities ;-)
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> I think frenzy is in action every time
<MartinGuehmann> We already started to conquer cities
<Zaphod> ooops ;-)
<MartinGuehmann> And my reloadslic is also some turns old
<MartinGuehmann> OK all units moved
<Tamerlin> Build an Hoplite in Wels
<Zaphod> savegame and end chat?
<MartinGuehmann> LemuForce fortified in Wels
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> Build queue already contains a Hoplite
<MartinGuehmann> And I will rush buy it even it costs nothing just to be shure
<Tamerlin> OK, we should pehaps end the turn before ending the chat?
<Zaphod> will it be ready in one round, if you make the guy farming this turn?
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah I think we should end this turn first
<MartinGuehmann> Yes
<Zaphod> than he should farm and growth
<MartinGuehmann> and if I give zero cach for rush buy then it is shure
<Zaphod> another question
<Zaphod> how many production is stored there? perhaps much more than for a holpite?
<MartinGuehmann> I think we should keep the farmer as it doesn't add anythink to the production
<MartinGuehmann> I think two or thre more turns
<Zaphod> could you chack that out please?
<Tamerlin> Yes we should keep the farme, three turns until growth
<MartinGuehmann> With farmer and without riots it only needs two turns to grow
<Tamerlin> 2 turns with a farmer are enough for a population increase without a farmer in 3 turns...
<MartinGuehmann> OK I remove the farmer to get some additional science
<MartinGuehmann> But then it is more then 3 turns to size 2
<Zaphod> could you please check out, how many production is stored there actually?
<Tamerlin> This is what I said, we should keep the farmer for 2 turns and then remove it as we don't need it anymore.
<MartinGuehmann> With farmer two turns to Drama, without farmer 2 turns to Drama
<MartinGuehmann> So keep the farmer or don't keep the farmer?
<Zaphod> keep the farmer of course
<Tamerlin> So we should let the farmer in Wels, Zaphod there is just enough production for a Hoplite in one turn, we would produce a Shrine in 3 turns.
<Zaphod> ok, thanks for the info
<MartinGuehmann> OK, end turn?
<Tamerlin> But we don't know the fate of Wels and we need a Hoplite to defend it should we keep it.
<Tamerlin> End turn!
<MartinGuehmann> END TURN 88
<Zaphod> well, i was just thinking of perhaps building a theatre instead when we have researched drama in 2 turns, which will give +2 happiness, +4 with a entertainer, as much as 4 units
<Tamerlin> Yes but a theatre is longer to produce we should start with a shrine.
<MartinGuehmann> Well, too late
<Zaphod> too late anyway
<Tamerlin> The Hoplite was the best choice IMO.
<Zaphod> a shrine just gives you one, and it doesn't double entertainers
<Zaphod> i guess so as well
<Tamerlin> Sorry, martin we have been very slow tonight. You are right Zaphod.
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah but we did what we wanted to do
<Tamerlin>
<Zaphod> that hoplite is fine, call him shakespeare ;-)
<MartinGuehmann> A size two stack near CL and Pedrunnia of Barbarians appeared
<MartinGuehmann> The Thai stack didn't move
<Zaphod> the settler east of wels?
<MartinGuehmann> No settler around Wels in sight
<Tamerlin> The games are really going astray, I have a 2 units barbarian stack near Graz... though the Thai did not moved either
<Zaphod> well, there was one in the screenie from mrbaggins
<Tamerlin> I could expell a German one in mine...
<Zaphod> save game and end game chat?
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> I have a German settler near mapfipolis
<MartinGuehmann> Game is already saved
<MartinGuehmann> so we can end the chat
<Tamerlin> Yep
<Zaphod> yo
<MartinGuehmann> END OF 11th TURN CHAT