Baltic Republics Will Be Offered to Return Soviet Investments

Saras · February 28, 2003, 03:28

Quote:

After the break-up of the USSR, political and economic relations of Russia with the republics of former USSR were different. The relations with the three Baltic republics were the most difficult. However, as it turned out in the course of time, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia are closely connected with Russia. And any sanctions introduced by the Russian leadership for this or that reason, immediately had an effect upon the general economic situation of these countries. Probably this is the reason why the Baltic countries always have some economic claims to the Russian Federation. This especially concerns compensation of the damage caused by the so-called “Soviet occupation.” However, the State Duma treats the problem from a pragmatic point of view.

According to APN.Ru (the Agency of Political Information), the State Duma committee for international affairs approved a draft resolution “On commissions to the RF Accounts Chamber” submitted by deputy Viktor Alksnis. Duma deputies plan to charge the Accounts Chamber with verification of “effectiveness and expedience of spending the public funds, and usage of the Soviet property in the Latvian, Lithuanian and Estonian Soviet republics in 194-1941 and usage of the federal property in the Latvian, Lithuanian and Estonian republics in 1991-1996.” As the Duma committee for international affairs reports, this document will be considered at one of its plenary sessions in January.

The author of the document, Duma deputy Viktor Alksnis thinks that this is a justified approach to the political and economic relations with the Baltic countries, which may soon become rightful members of the European Union. In fact, the USSR had founded the present-day industrial and transport infrastructure in the Baltic republics, and secured the highest possible standard of well-being to the population of the republics within decades. Moreover, Russia also did much economic favor to the young Baltic states in the 1990s. When the contingents of Soviet troops were withdrawn from the territory of the Baltic republics, the governments of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania got expensive military objects practically for free. They were valued at hundreds of billions dollars. Thus, Alksnis says that an aerodrome in Zoknjae is valued at more than 5 billion dollars.

If we take into consideration the fact that the USSR’s western defense boundary passed via the territory of the Baltic republics, we can see that the cost of the objects that still remain there is perfectly comparable with Russia’s foreign debt. Viktor Alksnis says that total cost of all Soviet objects left on the territory of the former Baltic republics hasn’t been yet professionally estimated. It means that the RF Accounts Chamber is in for a large-scale work. According to the provisional estimates done by Viktor Alksnis himself, the Soviet Union invested approximately 80-85 billion dollars in Latvia and Lithuania, and 40-45 billion dollars in Estonia.

The deputy says, the problem is complicated with the territorial acquisitions of the Baltic republics that cannot be valued in money equivalent. Viktor Alksnis suggests that the State Duma must consider the juridical reasons of these territorial acquisitions. Deputies postponed consideration of the problem till February.
Besides, the State Duma committee for international affairs made a decision to postpone ratification of the Russian-Lithuanian boundary agreement till May. Lithuania wants the agreement to be ratified as soon as possible because of it’s prospective incorporation into NATO and the European Union. But it will have to wait for some time.

In the light of the forthcoming incorporation of the Baltic republics into the United Europe, the problem of Russia’s material and territorial claims to these “little favorites” of the European community look rather insignificant. It’s obvious that nobody will allow Russia to get some money from the Baltic republics all of a sudden or to deprive them of some territories. The author of the document, deputy Viktor Alksnis treats this perspective rather skeptically. “It’s clear that I don’t expect that Russia would seek for restitution of any property from the Baltic republics. However, as long as Lithuania officially claims that Russia must “compensate the damage caused by the Soviet occupation” and appeals to the world community in connection with this claim, we should have counter claims ready at hand.”

The problem has gone too far that Lithuania even adopted a law “On compensation of damage caused by the Soviet occupation” and a special referendum was held in connection with the problem. On December 4, Estonia’s Foreign Minister declared that Tallinn would also set up a special commission to estimate the rate of a similar “damage.” Latvia may also join the claims of its neighbors; the three Baltic republics plan to make a joint statement and bring an action to the sum of 55-60 billion dollars against Russia.

The instruction given to the RF Accounts Chamber allows Russia’s authorities to get ready for attacks of the “aggressive” Baltic democracies and to obtain all necessary information about the actual state of things in the republics.

Picture: Duma deputy Viktor Alksnis

Ahtyam Ahtyrov
PRAVDA.Ru

Just how fuked up in the brain can one get? They come in, screw with a country for 50 years, kill 5% of people and then demand compensation for stuff they built here.

I wish someone snuffs this Alksnis out of his miserable life.

Nubclear · February 28, 2003, 03:37

Good for them.

Saras · February 28, 2003, 03:40

Tass, go back your hole and stay there, you troll.

Nubclear · February 28, 2003, 03:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Saras
Tass, go back your hole and stay there, you troll.

Hey, I live in UTAH.

I suppose you say its kind of like the Lithuania of America

Oerdin · February 28, 2003, 03:46

It is totally illogical to occupy a country for 50 years and then demand the occupiee pay part of the expenses the occupier incured during their crimes.

Saras · February 28, 2003, 03:48

Like you know anything about Lithuania, you Mormon Troll

St Leo · February 28, 2003, 10:29

In fact, the USSR had founded the present-day industrial and transport infrastructure in the Baltic republics

That's absurd. The Baltic States were far more industrialized on average than Russia during their first indepenence between the two world wars. The baselines from which the Soviets raised the Baltics and the one from which they raised Russia are not comparable at all.

If anything, Russia owes THEM money for taking away and preventing so much that could have been used to improve the aforementioned infrastructure and general economy.

Russia was forced to disgorge both Finland and Estonia in the treaty of Brest-Litovsk. Estonia was several degrees of magnitude far more industrialized than the poor ex-Duchy of Finland. However, Estonia was reannexed by the Soviets but Finland was not. Now, Estonia lags far behind its northern neighbour.

Soviet Russia took away and/or mishandled far more than it ever gave back. The defense installations that it left in its wake are irrelevant to the Baltic States -- they aren't going to war with Sweden anytime soon -- and are nothing but an unfortunate mistake to the Russians. They may have cost a lot to build, but they are worthless now.

Saras · February 28, 2003, 11:11

St Leo -

Saras · February 28, 2003, 11:14

Does anyone have GDP figures for Baltric states pre - WW2? I'd like to compare just how far have we lagged behind due to the bastard commies.

TheStinger · February 28, 2003, 11:16

Maybe they could counter sue for all those interned in Gulags who never returned

Sten Sture · February 28, 2003, 13:23

Just pay them in East German Marks, that should 'fairly' compensate them for their investment

Gangerolf · February 28, 2003, 13:27

Quote:

The defense installations that it left in its wake are irrelevant to the Baltic States -- they aren't going to war with Sweden anytime soon

why not?

Pekka · February 28, 2003, 16:59

Ganger, because they'd have to go through us first.. and that's not going to happen

Pekka · February 28, 2003, 17:00

Umm wait a minute.. they actually don't have to go through us

Leave us something too!

Sava · February 28, 2003, 17:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Sten Sture
Just pay them in East German Marks, that should 'fairly' compensate them for their investment

Tass, I understand you're pro-Russia, but that doesn't mean you have to be a dumbass.

Gangerolf · February 28, 2003, 18:24

Quote:

Umm wait a minute.. they actually don't have to go through us
Leave us something too![/

yep that would be quite a detour.

I wonder who would win, sweden vs Norway, finland and the baltics... .

end of threadjack.

monkspider · February 28, 2003, 19:23

I don't think a small return to the Russian government on the part of the Baltics would be out of the question.

JCG · February 28, 2003, 20:15

Oh sure, and I suppose a nice "thank you very much for your visit, please come again soon" card wouldn't hurt either.

Pekka · February 28, 2003, 20:53

Gangerwolf, interesting question.. I don't know. I wonder what would happen if we claimed that terrorists from baltic countries attacked us in our soil killing thousands, and then attack them.. and they already being in NATO.. hmm.. interesting.. of course we'd lose if NATO would take action, but if they didn't.. would be interesting. Just in theoretical point of view. My honest guess would be that we would win if it was fought on our soil, but they would win if we attacked and they were ready and equipped properly.. then we would take a beating. Yep.

And for the topic, I think these claims are just stupid. So, in the US they sue everyone for everything they have for no reason, but come on, let's not make this to a trend between nations

Would be one hell of a show in courttv though.

VetLegion · February 28, 2003, 21:09

Yeah Finland vs Sweden who would win? Swedes have some good toys. Visby class ship, very good looking ship. Grippen, etc, very cool. OTOH, Finns have more combat expirience. Hmmm.

Gangerolf · February 28, 2003, 21:13

no no. I meant a joint invasion of swden by norway, finland and the balts.

I think we would win, but it would take a while.

Quote:

I don't think a small return to the Russian government on the part of the Baltics would be out of the question.

the germans built lots of nice roads and fortifications in norway during the war. how ungrateful of us not to pay them back.

Pekka · February 28, 2003, 21:14

But you have to send in the ground troops to be able to take us

Also when it comes to fighting, we are animals. Swedes are lovers. I don't know! Interesting match up too! My guess would go like earlier, we'd win if we they attacked, they win if we attacked. But I wouldn't know for sure.

VetLegion, hey did you watch that Savior already?

Gangerwolf, you mean all us against Swedes? Peace of cake! I think they'd be able to defend for a while though, so it wouldn't be parade march. But it wouldn't be a fair thing, since I think we'd all lose in that scenario to others.. we'd be all toast.

Gangerolf · February 28, 2003, 21:15

Quote:

Yeah Finland vs Sweden who would win? Swedes have some good toys. Visby class ship, very good looking ship. Grippen, etc, very cool. OTOH, Finns have more combat expirience. Hmmm.

sweden's got almost twice the population though. and finns with combat experience are mostly around 80 years old

Pekka · February 28, 2003, 21:21

Don't underestimate that, it's 60 years!

But I have to rely on history too, although we have been others servants for hundreds of years, we have been given that warrior gift. We were feared even when we fought for Sweden.. that has to count for something! But I admit that we don't know crap about attacking, so we can't do that at all. And since when did Swedes get lots of recent combat experience? Or norway? Yeah yeah you guys are in NATO, but how many guys actually has fought in recent years?

But I'd give good estimate to you too, if equipment was right. I think Nordic countries have some weird fighting skills when it comes really serious business, vikings and so. On the other hand we don't have the biggest and best stuff so.. and also are one of the most peaceful countries too. But if it came hand to hand combat, every men for themselves, I'd give my money to nordic men!

It would be even more interesting fight if it were between finland, sweden, norway, lithuania, latvia and estonia vs. russia. No NATO stuff, no nuking or bio/chem attacks. Russia would still have Chechnya front, so they wouldn't get to use all resources against us.
Sorry for threadjacking Sava, I stop here.

Nubclear · February 28, 2003, 21:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Pekka

It would be even more interesting fight if it were between finland, sweden, norway, lithuania, latvia and estonia vs. russia. No NATO stuff, no nuking or bio/chem attacks. Russia would still have Chechnya front, so they wouldn't get to use all resources against us.

If your soldiers began to fight us, we would distrbute Vodka for free!

You wouldn't stand a chance!

VetLegion · February 28, 2003, 21:53

VetLegion · February 28, 2003, 21:55

Obviously Sweden would kick everyones ass all the way to the north pole

(ups, sorry, lets stop the threadjack

)

Gangerolf · February 28, 2003, 21:56

luckily, very few people in the region have any combat experience

Quote:

It would be even more interesting fight if it were between finland, sweden, norway, lithuania, latvia and estonia vs. russia. No NATO stuff, no nuking or bio/chem attacks. Russia would still have Chechnya front, so they wouldn't get to use all resources against us.

the russians would still heavily outnumber us.
but maybe we could loot murmansk and st petersburg and some other cities, and maybe even get you karelia back.

Quote:

If your soldiers began to fight us, we would distrbute Vodka for free! You wouldn't stand a chance!

aargh! they know our achilles heel. we might as well throw away any plans

Boris Godunov · February 28, 2003, 21:59

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
I don't think a small return to the Russian government on the part of the Baltics would be out of the question.

Oh come on. Just because you're a commie doesn't mean you have to support whatever Russia wants. There's NO logical reason why the Baltics should pay anything to Russia, considering their forced annexations.

monkspider · February 28, 2003, 22:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Oh come on. Just because you're a commie doesn't mean you have to support whatever Russia wants. There's NO logical reason why the Baltics should pay anything to Russia, considering their forced annexations.

Yeah, but overriding everything else, it's always fun to rile up the Lithuanians.