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View Poll Results: For WTF reason do we need to complete this crappy question field, anyhoo?
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I'm from a NATO member country and think we should keep it.
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16 |
34.04% |
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I'm from a NATO member country and think we should get out.
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27.66% |
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I'm from a non-NATO member country and think we should get in.
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4.26% |
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I'm from a non-NATO member country and think we should keep out.
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21.28% |
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BanaNATO.
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6 |
12.77% |
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February 28, 2003, 10:52
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#1
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Emperor
Local Time: 22:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: CLOWNS WIT DA DOWNS 4 LIFE YO!
Posts: 5,301
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What's your opinion on NATO?
NATO membership's a big issue in Finland (Well, maybe not that big, since few politicians, and no parties, are willing to say they support NATO membership, especially during the election year.) A clear majority of people (something like 70-80%, I think) oppose Finland becoming a NATO member. If there was a referendum I'd vote against NATO membership, too - I don't think it's such a big issue as the paranoids in the far left think, but the increased military costs just wouldn't be worth it.
What I was wondering is whether there's any support for getting out of NATO in countries that are already members, esp. European countries? Didn't France do something like this for some time during the Cold War?
__________________
"Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
"That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women." - Adam Yoshida, Canada's gift to the world
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February 28, 2003, 11:09
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#2
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Prince
Local Time: 21:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: KULTUR-TERROR
Posts: 958
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NATO is ok.
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Quote:
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Didn't France do something like this for some time during the Cold War?
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they pulled out of the integrated military command in 1966 because they wanted more independent control of their own forces IIRC
__________________
CSPA
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February 28, 2003, 11:09
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#3
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Local Time: 16:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In search of pants
Posts: 5,085
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France remained in NATO but insisted that French troops be commanded by French commanders.
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February 28, 2003, 11:38
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#4
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Deity
Local Time: 04:35
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
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NATO should be dissolved, being a relic of the Cold War
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
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February 28, 2003, 11:57
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#5
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King
Local Time: 16:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Philly
Posts: 2,961
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Urban Ranger
NATO should be dissolved, being a relic of the Cold War
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I agree. It is anachronistic. Dismantle it and build a new organization that recognizes the political realities and military needs of the present day.
__________________
"Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
"I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
"Stuie is right...." - Guynemer
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February 28, 2003, 12:12
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#6
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Local Time: 22:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 10,712
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NATO is dead. Long live Eurocorps!
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Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)
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February 28, 2003, 12:47
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#7
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Chieftain
Local Time: 20:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 31
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Maniac
NATO is dead. Long live Eurocorps!
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Do you really think UK will pick Europe before the US as
an Alliance partner?
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February 28, 2003, 13:07
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#8
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Deity
Local Time: 16:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
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I'm thinking there are many in Europe that would be just fine with that, Ozz. Just my impression...
-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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February 28, 2003, 13:17
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#9
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King
Local Time: 12:35
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Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
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NATO is about the US defending Europe.
I am no longer willing to defend France or Germany or Belgium. These countries leave or we leave.
__________________
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February 28, 2003, 13:20
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#10
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Emperor
Local Time: 20:35
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Taste of Japan
Posts: 9,611
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NATO needs to expand to counter the growing alien menace. 
__________________
“As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
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February 28, 2003, 13:20
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#11
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Prince
Local Time: 21:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: KULTUR-TERROR
Posts: 958
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that's just silly ned.
you'll be friends again in a year or two
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CSPA
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February 28, 2003, 13:34
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#12
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Prince
Local Time: 21:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Antwerpen
Posts: 398
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Belgium should leave NATO, we'd actually be safer without American troops and nukes based in our country. (and American troops passing through the port of Antwerp every time the US declares war on a 3rd world country.)
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February 28, 2003, 13:43
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#13
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Civ4: Colonization Content Editor
Local Time: 21:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 11,117
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Germany should leave the NATO and close the remaining foreign bases. Even better, dissolve the NATO. It's a dinosaur anyway.
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February 28, 2003, 13:55
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#14
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Emperor
Local Time: 23:35
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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Posts: 6,484
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I'm ashamed of our gallup results! But they don't think globally at all, they think 'we don't have enemies, let's not get them'. Fools.
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In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
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February 28, 2003, 13:58
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#15
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Emperor
Local Time: 22:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,512
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Austria should not join the NATO. Neutrality is still a high value in Austria, and the current happenings show what it means to be NATO member.
No the the NATO.
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"Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.
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February 28, 2003, 14:04
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#16
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Emperor
Local Time: 23:35
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: A pub.
Posts: 3,161
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Pekka: I don't really think that you need NATO.
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February 28, 2003, 14:08
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#17
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Emperor
Local Time: 15:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
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In theory, NATO is a good concept. But Kosovo prooved that NATO is simply no better than Nazi Germany.
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February 28, 2003, 14:22
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#18
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Deity
Local Time: 16:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
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Woohoo! Savatroll goes into action!
-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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February 28, 2003, 14:23
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#19
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Emperor
Local Time: 15:35
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
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Woohoo Arrignorant goes into action!
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February 28, 2003, 14:27
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#20
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Emperor
Local Time: 23:35
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Xrr ZRRRRRRR!!
Posts: 6,484
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Azazel, well not really but.. but... it would be lots of fun? 
__________________
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
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February 28, 2003, 14:36
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#21
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Deity
Local Time: 16:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
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Sava,
Nato's intervention in Kosovo has been discussed quite a bit, and I do not wish to get into it again here, but "NATO is simply no better than Nazi Germany" is clearly a troll.
To pretend otherwise is silly. The avatar is fitting. Timah!
-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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February 28, 2003, 14:40
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#22
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Emperor
Local Time: 15:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
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SAVA!
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February 28, 2003, 14:44
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#23
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Deity
Local Time: 16:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
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*sigh*
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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February 28, 2003, 14:58
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#24
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Emperor
Local Time: 16:35
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
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I think the US and Canada should be thrown out of NATO, so that it can form the nucleus for an all European armed forces.
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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February 28, 2003, 15:03
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#25
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King
Local Time: 21:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Just one more thing
Posts: 1,733
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Britain should kick the American bases out, and forbid them to renew their leases on assorted British colonies. And maybe leave NATO as well.
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February 28, 2003, 15:07
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#26
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Deity
Local Time: 16:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,160
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Gangerolf
that's just silly ned.
you'll be friends again in a year or two
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i agree that its unwise to burn bridges, though i think it will likely take more than a year or two to repair the relations.
I don think NATO needs rethinking, at a minimum. It is very difficult to state the strategic rationale for it now, at least in terms of relations among the great powers. I would be hesitant to dispose of it so soon after admitting the eastern members, who clearly do still see at as an essential part of their security. I can certainly see arguments (from the US pointof view) for demphasizing it, while working on certain bilateral relationships both with NATO members, and non-NATO states.
If i was a citizen of a non-NATO state i would be hestiant to decide one way or the other before the Iraq crisis plays out, and i get better idea of where "the chips fall". In particular i was a Finn I would be closely watching Russian behavior, the nature of Russia's relations with the US on the one hand, and with the Franco-German block on the other.
I would certainly be very reluctant to base any policy on a Euro force, given the unsettled nature of the relations among European states, and the apparent profound differnces they have on grand strategy.
__________________
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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February 28, 2003, 20:51
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#27
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Local Time: 16:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In search of pants
Posts: 5,085
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I think the US and Canada should be thrown out of NATO, so that it can form the nucleus for an all European armed forces.
Could we Canuckistanis stay? I dread to think what the US could do to us if we didn't have allies behind us. 
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February 28, 2003, 21:03
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#28
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Prince
Local Time: 21:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 988
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Ned
NATO is about the US defending Europe.
I am no longer willing to defend France or Germany or Belgium. These countries leave or we leave.
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Please do.  Can I do something to help you along? 
__________________
Now, if I ask myself: Who profits from a War against Iraq?, the answer is: Israel. -Prof. Rudolf Burger, Austrian Academy of Arts
Free Slobo, lock up George, learn from Kim-Jong-Il.
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February 28, 2003, 21:04
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#29
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Emperor
Local Time: 22:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 4,037
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I am from a non NATO country who wishes to be in NATO (or so the politicians say)
I am against my country joining NATO
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February 28, 2003, 21:11
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#30
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Deity
Local Time: 16:35
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Not your daddy's Benjamins
Posts: 10,737
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I think NATO is a good insurance policy against a potential resurgence of Russian nationalism. Not that it is likely, but you have to be prepared.
Also, I think that NATO would be a good front edge for the EU in Asia and the Middle East, if Europe would take advantage of it.
Overall, I'm all for NATO.
__________________
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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