Turn Report 2257-2264

GeneralTacticus · March 1, 2003, 23:12

Main events:

1) We built the MCC, Supercollider, and Xenoempathy Dome.

2) We developed Bio-Engineering & Super-string Theory, and are now research Retroviral Engeering.

3) We suffered an energy market crash, but fortunately we didn't lose all that much energy.

4) Yang tried to attack Capricorn, but was repulsed after destroying two formers.

5) We had a crisis at the end of the chat, as (at herc's suggestion), we contacted Yang to see if he wanted peace, and it turned out that he did. After some discussion over whether or not it would be legal to accept, it was concluded that the offer should be accepted and the game saved into a seperate file, with the saves both before and after the call being available. The matter has been sent to the court.

PLEASE READ THE END OF THE CHAT LOG TO MAKE MATTERS CLEAR.

EDIT:

Forgot to atach the save file. See below the chatlog.

GeneralTacticus · March 1, 2003, 23:27

[09:42] GT^Commish> Starting now.
[09:42] Evangelion-Freak> All we are looking for is a way to block the DIA if it's deemed necessary.
There was also my proposal of a citizen action that would allow a large portion of the people to
veto the DIA.
[09:42] Evangelion-Freak> That way, we'd kinda "banana" him beforehand. A proactive impeachment sort
of thing.
[09:43] AdamTG^DoS> It's true enough that thje DIA's veto is only a negative. He can't force the
Governors to do anything specific which they object to. The most that could happen is for no orders
to be okayed, and either the Commissioner plays without orders or the game grinds to a halt.
[09:43] Maniac-AT> Voilà.
[09:43] AdamTG^DoS> Well, we do have impeachment for that.
[09:43] Maniac-AT>

[09:43] Evangelion-Freak> *shrug*
[09:43] Evangelion-Freak> Of course all wrongdoings of officials will come back to them in elections,
but by then the damage will be done.
[09:43] Maniac-AT> Indeed: impeach the DIA!

[09:43] GT^Commish> IF that scenario plays out, we'd have a situation like the one we had here in
1975.
[09:43] Evangelion-Freak> And impeachments take time too. Last time, Herc wanted 47 hours to think
over it when we had a 48 hour limit...
[09:44] AdamTG^DoS> True enough.
[09:44] Evangelion-Freak> Luckily Drogue resigned himself and we avoided some mess...
[09:44] AdamTG^DoS> Well, I'mnot trying to shoot the idea down, just proposing arguments.
[09:44] Maniac-AT> Of course we could also give the AT the power to veto any order, including the
DIA's veto. But that proposal was shot down last time.

[09:44] GT^Commish> Have we ever impeached an official who was actually still active?
[09:45] AdamTG^DoS> It's been proposed (Archaic), but never carried out. And at the time of
impeachment he wasn't very active; became more active after that.
[09:47] AdamTG^DoS> To my knowledge, the justification for every proposed impeachment has been
inactivity. In Archaic's case, it wasn't clear at the time whether he was unwilling to post polls
or unable; turned out he had been busy and after that he made an effort to be more active.
[09:47] Maniac-AT> Anyway, if I get it the only difference between letting the court have the last
word over a DIA veto, or the Commish+AT having the last word, is that the court needs 3 judges, and
the Commish+AT only two. Not much of an advantage. The only thing it does is giving the judges even
less power.
[09:47] GT^Commish> Maniac: Is it ok with you if I upgrade the obsolete designs that still have units
active, to free up some slots?
[09:47] Maniac-AT> Such as?
[09:47] GT^Commish> Plenty.
[09:48] Maniac-AT> We're kind of short of cash. I wouldn't want to upgrade every military unit rihgt
now.
[09:48] AdamTG^DoS> Do the judges have the right to overturn a veto? After all, the Constitution
gives the DIA the power to veto -- do Judges have the power to overturn an order made according to
the Constitution?
[09:48] Maniac-AT> We need to save for the former upgrades?
[09:48] Evangelion-Freak> I'm not as aware of the rights of the Justices as I should be *cough*
[09:48] Evangelion-Freak> Time to do some homework I guess

[09:48] Maniac-AT> I think they can give a ruling abouyt anything presented to the court.
[09:49] AdamTG^DoS> As I see it, the job of the Justices is to interpret the Constitution and say
when something conflicts with it. That's my understanding, at least.
[09:49] Maniac-AT> Or when there are conflicts between officials no? Such as between a DIA and
governor.
[09:50] GT^Commish> Maniac, we have to get rid of some of the active designs, or else we'll be unable
to clean the workshop out.
[09:50] AdamTG^DoS> Hmm. After reading the section of the Constitution, I find that it reads closer
to Maniac's interpretation.
[09:50] AdamTG^DoS> "violations of the Constitution, or any other legal dispute involving the game.
[09:50] Maniac-AT> Really? When I checked last time a few hours ago, there were *tens* of active and
obsolete designs we have no unit of.
[09:50] Evangelion-Freak> I see.
[09:51] Maniac-AT> I'll start the game up myself to check, GeneralTacticus.
[09:52] * herc2 has joined #smacdg
[09:52] AdamTG^DoS> Greetings, Hercules.
[09:52] herc2> Hi guys
[09:53] Maniac-AT> GeneralTacticus, there are 14 obsolete designs we have no units from. Upgrading of
existing units (except formers in a while) is not necessary.
[09:53] AdamTG^DoS> We're discussing getting rid of some of the unused unit designs, to free up
space. As DPO, would you approve of that?
[09:53] Evangelion-Freak> Hey herc
[09:53] herc2> absolutely
[09:54] GT^Commish> Maniac, it doesn't seem to make any difference.
[09:54] GT^Commish> I've tried to get rid of them, but the number of slots stays the same.
[09:54] * MrWhereItsAt has joined #smacdg
[09:54] Maniac-AT> There are also *17* active unit designs we have no units of or are producing any
of.
[09:54] Maniac-AT> Gt ??????????
[09:55] MrWhereItsAt> Snoogins.
[09:55] GT^Commish> I don't know what the problem is.
[09:55] GT^Commish> Probably something I'm doing worng.
[09:55] GT^Commish> * wrong
[09:55] Maniac-AT> You do know you have yo press "Retire" not "Obsolete".
[09:55] GT^Commish> No, I didn't, actually.
[09:55] GT^Commish> I've never had to do that before.
[09:55] Maniac-AT> Ah that explains it.

[09:55] MrWhereItsAt> You could upgrade those old designs to better ones - then they disappear.
[09:55] GT^Commish> We've already rejected that.
[09:56] GT^Commish> On the grounds that we need the money.
[09:56] Maniac-AT> We need former upgrades first.

[09:56] Maniac-AT> Or not? Poll it?
[09:56] Maniac-AT> Quickpoll
[09:56] MrWhereItsAt> No - for the designs there are no models of - it automatically upgrades any
build orders. You don't have to pay of course if there are no units of that type
[09:57] herc2> confused
[09:57] MrWhereItsAt> OK - we have 17 designs for which we have no units, right?
[09:57] GT^Commish> Ah, I see.
[09:57] AdamTG^DoS> What's the cost for the upgrade(s) under consideration?
[09:57] GT^Commish> Zero.
[09:57] GT^Commish> That's the point.
[09:57] Maniac-AT> And 14 other obsolete ones, together making 31 if I didn't miscount.
[09:57] MrWhereItsAt> (Yes.
[09:58] Maniac-AT> That should give us enough room for a while?
[09:58] MrWhereItsAt> The 17 unused ones can be upgraded to better designs at a cost of zero if there
are better designs we have made.
[09:58] Maniac-AT> ?->.
[09:58] AdamTG^DoS> Thought Maniac was proposing making some other upgrades. Well, if it's without
cost, I say by all means go ahead with it.
[09:58] Maniac-AT> MWIA: why do so if we can just retire them?
[09:58] herc2> yeah me too
[09:59] GT^Commish> Either way works.
[09:59] MrWhereItsAt> I guess it's the same thing, but it shows you if you have designed an
equivalent unit using better technology, and if there are any units being produced, they upgrade to
the newer design without cost.
[09:59] GT^Commish> Anyway, we now have plenty of empty slots in the design workshop.
[10:00] Maniac-AT>

[10:00] MrWhereItsAt> In our case it is mostly just an alternative to retiring.
[10:04] MrWhereItsAt> All quiet...
[10:04] GT^Commish> I'm doing the build queue orders.
[10:04] GT^Commish> Such as there are.
[10:05] Maniac-AT> That's the routine here. Seas of silence with outbursts of heavy discussion.
[10:05] MrWhereItsAt> Has it really got this quiet in here when the Commish is working?
[10:05] GT^Commish> ?
[10:05] Evangelion-Freak> I have other things to do besides cracking bad jokes...
[10:05] GT^Commish> You're free to chat about what you like if want to.
[10:05] MrWhereItsAt> Kass - don't say that!
[10:06] Evangelion-Freak> Read my earlier response GT

[10:06] Maniac-AT> Yeah, most of us do something else these days while attending the turnchat.
[10:06] GT^Commish> I was talking to MWIA.
[10:06] Evangelion-Freak> I'm using wget to archive http://www.evaotaku.com

[10:06] Maniac-AT> For example training for the smacdg pbem.
[10:06] Maniac-AT>

[10:06] Evangelion-Freak> I can't play while doing this, not enough RAM... :\
[10:07] Evangelion-Freak> But,

, a new Computer with 512MB of RAM is in the works

[10:07] herc2> same thing happened to me
[10:07] GT^Commish> Find a book to read, then.
[10:07] Maniac-AT> Or we could of course always start a Directplay game while the Commish is doing
all the hard work.

[10:07] Maniac-AT> MP
[10:07] MrWhereItsAt> Hmm... it seems that formers cost the same with up to and including plasma
armour, but any higher and they start to cost. Or is that just 3Pulse and 3Res armour??
[10:07] Evangelion-Freak> I haven't felt like reading lately...
[10:08] MrWhereItsAt> I don't have Silksteel in my latest game
[10:08] Evangelion-Freak> I could of course always try to watch anime :cutE:
[10:08] Evangelion-Freak> *

[10:09] Evangelion-Freak> I've got the first two episodes of Gunbuster, I could check them out...
[10:09] Evangelion-Freak> (Gunbuster == GAiNAX & Anno Hideaki == excellent)
[10:10] Maniac-AT> I used to watch movies while attending the turnchat, but the problem is I can't
see the TV screen while sitting before the computer. I always had to run back and forth.

[10:10] GT^Commish> Maniac: given that you're filling in for TKG, can we rush the Rec Commons in Twin
Peaks for54 ECs?
[10:10] Evangelion-Freak> Save for FLCL. Too obscure, that one. (Yes, even moreso than Eva. Or, well,
I haven't watched FLCL for seven times...)
[10:10] AdamTG^DoS> MWIA: Probably Plasma too. I know that Plasma is just as cheap as Synthmetal.
[10:10] Maniac-AT> Sure
[10:10] AdamTG^DoS> FLCL... does it make any sense whatsoever? I admit, I've only seen the tail end
of one episode...
[10:10] GT^Commish> Build queue orders done.
[10:11] Evangelion-Freak> The middle ones make as little sense as the first and last ones...
[10:11] AdamTG^DoS> About what I expected.
[10:11] Evangelion-Freak> There's a plot, but, well, it's missing something I can't really put my
finger on.
[10:11] Evangelion-Freak> The whole series, not the plot, that is.
[10:11] Maniac-AT> GT, how many cash have we left after all the rushes?
[10:11] herc2> Is that Voltaire I see before me
[10:12] Voltaire> yes it is
[10:12] GT^Commish> Maniac: I haven't started the rushes yet.
[10:12] Maniac-AT> oh ok
[10:12] GT^Commish> We 1076 ECs left right now.
[10:12] GT^Commish> And we'll get another 481 ECs next turn.
[10:13] Maniac-AT>

[10:13] herc2> The first turns always the longest ( feels song coming on)
[10:18] * Maniac-AT is now known as Maniac
[10:18] herc2> So hows the weather where you are
[10:18] GT^Commish> Cloudy.
[10:19] GT^Commish> We had some thunderstorms last night.
[10:19] Maniac> Dark.
[10:19] Maniac>

[10:22] * MrWhereItsAt has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:22] GT^Commish>

[10:22] GT^Commish> Just popped a pod containing 200 ECs.
[10:22] Evangelion-Freak>

[10:23] AdamTG^DoS> Excellent.
[10:23] * MrWhereItsAt has joined #smacdg
[10:23] Maniac> welcom
[10:23] MrWhereItsAt> The HORRORs of dialup
[10:23] GT^Commish> wb.
[10:23] GT^Commish> We just popped a pod containing 200 ECs.
[10:24] MrWhereItsAt> Nice
[10:24] herc2> where on land or sea
[10:24] MrWhereItsAt> Vewry timely
[10:24] GT^Commish> Sea.
[10:24] GT^Commish> In the Great Marine Rift.
[10:26] herc2> yeah got it and there's a nother pod not that far away for next time.
[10:26] GT^Commish> Yup.
[10:29] herc2> so turnwise where are we at, still first?
[10:30] herc2> My2157 or MY 2158
[10:31] GT^Commish> 2257 complete.
[10:31] GT^Commish> CEO Morgan is now working on the Maritime Control Centre.
[10:31] Maniac> Aha. Let the disaster reports come!
[10:31] MrWhereItsAt> Poor herc's living in the past...

[10:31] GT^Commish> As is sister Miriam.
[10:32] herc2> ooops but it was also a good year
[10:32] GT^Commish> 'Couse, they don't have even the slightest chance of beating us.
[10:33] GT^Commish> And the riots at the Hive are continuing.
[10:35] MrWhereItsAt> Herc - the golden age....
[10:35] GT^Commish>

@ Herc.
[10:35] herc2> ok ok calm down
[10:36] Maniac> GT, is there a golden age in Concordia now the hybrid forest is rushed?
[10:36] GT^Commish> btw, our income has now reach 496 per turn.
[10:36] GT^Commish> And we have 1285 ECs in the bank.
[10:36] MrWhereItsAt> Don't worry Herc - I have been in stasis the last hundred years!
[10:37] GT^Commish> got that article written up yet?
[10:40] Maniac> GT, is there a golden age in Concordia now the hybrid forest is rushed?
[10:40] GT^Commish> Yes.
[10:41] Maniac> ok thanks
[10:43] herc2> very quiet, whats happening
[10:43] GT^Commish> Doing this turn's former orders.
[10:50] herc2> well MWIA what afction are you going to choose in the SMACdgpbem
[10:50] herc2> faction
[10:50] GT^Commish> Okay, just picked up a sonar pod in the GMR.
[10:50] herc2> bit of a waste
[10:51] AdamTG^DoS> Did it locate any Hive naval units? If not, agreed, a waste.
[10:52] GT^Commish> Nope.
[10:52] * AdamTG^DoS nods glumly.
[10:52] GT^Commish> No Hive naval units on this side of our continent.
[10:52] GT^Commish> 2258 complete.
[10:53] AdamTG^DoS> Well, that's a good thing, I suppose.

[10:53] GT^Commish> amazingly, no calamities occurred this time.
[10:54] herc2> yeah I know we miss the 'eeek, f***, s**t, comments
[10:54] GT^Commish>

[10:54] GT^Commish> You know that Morgan is currently trying to build a road to Xanadu?
[10:55] herc2> saves us doing it I suppose
[10:55] Maniac> Friendly.
[10:56] AdamTG^DoS> Hmm. Is it worth stationing a few probe teams in our eastern bases?
[10:56] GT^Commish> Funny thing is, we aleady ahve one.
[10:56] AdamTG^DoS> Works fine, then.
[10:57] GT^Commish> I doubt it.
[10:57] GT^Commish> On second thoguhts, no.
[10:57] GT^Commish> We have the HSA, remember.
[10:57] GT^Commish> ?
[10:57] AdamTG^DoS> Okay...
[10:57] * AdamTG^DoS thwaps himself over the head with a trout for stupidity.
[10:58] herc2> Brings out an even bigger trout
[10:58] AdamTG^DoS> ?
[10:58] GT^Commish> Herc: given that there are two unity pods near Capricorn, can I use the formers
to pop them??
[10:59] herc2> I thought about that how about a poll
[10:59] GT^Commish> Quickpoll: 1 = Yes, 2 = no, 3 = abstain.
[10:59] herc2> formers are not exactly military units
[11:00] herc2> 1
[11:00] * Voltaire 3
[11:00] * Maniac 4 Yes if ther are active interceptors which can kill possible mind worms. No if all
interceptors have already used their movement points.
[11:00] herc2> good point
[11:00] GT^Commish> That'll be a yes, then.
[11:00] * GT^Commish 3
[11:01] * AdamTG^DoS 1
[11:01] -> *Voltaire* still awake?
[11:01] * Maniac in that case 1
[11:01] GT^Commish> Carried.
[11:02] GT^Commish> Opened one pod, and we got enough minerals to finish the capricorn Rec commons.
[11:02] herc2> nice one
[11:02] * AdamTG^DoS celebrates.
[11:07] GT^Commish> Our income has now hit 521.
[11:08] Voltaire> ouch\
[11:08] GT^Commish> ?
[11:08] GT^Commish> It's up.
[11:09] Voltaire> opps, i must have missed the part when it was lower
[11:09] Voltaire> How much are we bringing in per turn?
[11:09] GT^Commish> 521.
[11:09] GT^Commish> That's what I just said.
[11:09] Voltaire> oh
[11:09] Maniac> Please tell me when we have 2600 in reserve. Then we can upgrade formers.
[11:09] Voltaire> Never mind, I thought you were reffring to our reserves.
[11:09] AdamTG^DoS> Last turn it was 481, according to GT's earlier comment.
[11:10] GT^Commish> UN Slippery Ground founded off the hive coast.
[11:11] AdamTG^DoS> One step closer to when complete naval superiority is achieved.
[11:11] GT^Commish> Can I start shelling Hive improvements?
[11:11] herc2> Well done
[11:11] herc2> with what
[11:12] Voltaire> Have we completed the Maratime Control Centre???
[11:12] herc2> next
[11:12] AdamTG^DoS> Not yet -- I said one step closer.
[11:13] GT^Commish> Herc: with the missile foil that escorted the CP.
[11:13] GT^Commish> Well?
[11:13] herc2> ah missed that.
[11:14] herc2> he'll know we're thre so why not
[11:14] GT^Commish> Hello?
[11:14] GT^Commish> Failed.
[11:14] Maniac> I'll be away for five minutes. I have to restart my computer due to some problems
with Windows media player. It doesn't start anymore.
[11:15] * Maniac has quit IRC (Quit: )
[11:15] Voltaire> brb need to restart
[11:15] * Voltaire has quit IRC (Quit: )
[11:15] GT^Commish> MCC built.
[11:15] herc2> great
[11:16] herc2> what did you mean failed
[11:16] GT^Commish> Bombardment failed.
[11:16] GT^Commish> It missed.
[11:16] herc2> ah
[11:16] GT^Commish> the Hive has signed a Treaty of Friendship with the Believers.
[11:16] GT^Commish> Just got Bio-engieering.
[11:16] Evangelion-Freak> Crap.
[11:16] Evangelion-Freak>

[11:16] herc2> At last
[11:17] GT^Commish> Adam: What was the next ech again?
[11:17] AdamTG^DoS> Somewhat troubling, but the Believers aren't strong enough to hurt Yang
signifficantly anyway.
[11:17] AdamTG^DoS> Superstring Theory
[11:17] Evangelion-Freak> Adam: yes, but two frontiers is always one frontier more than, eh, one.
[11:17] AdamTG^DoS> I broke a tie between that and Organic Superlube.
[11:17] GT^Commish> Any particular reason why?
[11:17] * Maniac has joined #smacdg
[11:18] GT^Commish> OS would get us a better weapon and a tech wwe could research immediately.
[11:18] GT^Commish> wb
[11:18] Maniac> thanks

[11:18] Maniac> OS?
[11:18] GT^Commish> Organic Superlube.
[11:18] AdamTG^DoS> Because Superstring Theory is needed for Unified Field Theory.
[11:18] Maniac> I see.
[11:18] AdamTG^DoS> Okay... since this is somewhat ambiguous, I'll quickpoll it.
[11:18] GT^Commish> It's several techs away.
[11:19] AdamTG^DoS> What are the choices given?
[11:19] GT^Commish> Silksteel Alloys, Superstring Theory, Mind-Machine Interface, Organic
Superlubricant, Retroviral Engineering.
[11:20] * nerv_111 has joined #smacdg
[11:20] * nerv_111 is now known as Voltaire
[11:20] GT^Commish> wb
[11:20] Voltaire> back
[11:20] AdamTG^DoS> Everything we can research, then.
[11:20] herc2> some nerv
[11:20] Maniac> MMI! :dointnow!:
[11:20] herc2> Os
[11:20] * GT^Commish votes OS
[11:21] AdamTG^DoS> Quickpoll: What should we research? 1) Silksteel Alloys 2) Superstring Theory
3) Mind-Machine Interface 4) Organic Superlubricant 5) Retroviral Engieering
[11:21] * AdamTG^DoS 2
[11:21] * GT^Commish 4
[11:21] herc2> 4
[11:21] * Voltaire 2
[11:22] Maniac> Do I get to decide?

[11:22] GT^Commish> So it would seem.
[11:22] Maniac> I'll choose 2, since that is AdamTG, our DoS, his choice.
[11:22] AdamTG^DoS> Unless MWIA or Kass decide to make their presence known.
[11:22] * GT^Commish slaps MrWhereItsAt around a bit with a large trout

GeneralTacticus · March 1, 2003, 23:28

[11:22] Evangelion-Freak> Eh?
[11:23] Evangelion-Freak> A tie?
[11:23] GT^Commish> Yes.
[11:23] Maniac> he has been idle for 45 minutes
[11:23] GT^Commish> Maybe he's having lunch.
[11:23] Evangelion-Freak> What two techs ar tied?
[11:23] AdamTG^DoS> Kass, we're voting on the next tech.
[11:23] Evangelion-Freak> *are
[11:23] Maniac> Could be. How late is it in New Zealand?
[11:23] -> *MrWhereItsAt* still awake?
[11:23] GT^Commish> Around 1 PM, I think.
[11:23] AdamTG^DoS> Actually, Maniac just broke the tie. Between Superstring Theory and Organic
Superlubricant.
[11:23] AdamTG^DoS> But feel free to vote.
[11:23] Evangelion-Freak> Ah, never mind then
[11:24] GT^Commish>

[11:24] Evangelion-Freak> SST is fine by me
[11:24] AdamTG^DoS> Okay, Superstring Theory it is.
[11:25] herc2> there'll be another tech along shortly
[11:25] GT^Commish> Just before the end of the chat.
[11:27] MrWhereItsAt> Oh... I would have chosen 3 anyway.
[11:27] herc2> well you can start the clean unit process
[11:28] AdamTG^DoS> If Maniac had gone for MMI as he originally intended, that would have been tied
wiyth tow votes as well.
[11:29] Maniac> And then the DoS would have to decide, so SST after all.

[11:29] GT^Commish> Well, Kass would have had a vote.
[11:29] MrWhereItsAt> Just another of my missed chances. I really need to figure out how to get here
BEFORE time :~
[11:31] GT^Commish> Maniac: So, can we start upgrading formers?
[11:31] Maniac> How much cash do we have?
[11:32] GT^Commish> 2472 ECs.
[11:32] Maniac> I'd like to keep 1000 ec in reserve at all times. And I think it would take about
40x40 ec to upgrade our 0-1-1 formers, so no rushing before we have 2600ec.
[11:32] Maniac> Ah, next turn then.
[11:32] GT^Commish> And making 550 per turn.
[11:33] GT^Commish> we could always upgrade them one design at a time.
[11:33] Maniac> Indeed. Please upgrade former upgrade priority one of the list I made.
[11:34] herc2> how much would that cost
[11:34] Maniac> The others will be next turn then.
[11:34] Maniac> 0-1-1 super -> revised formers
[11:34] Maniac> About 1600 ec I believe.
[11:34] Maniac> But we save 40 minerals per turn.
[11:35] * Evangelion-Freak has quit IRC (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by koe)))
[11:35] MrWhereItsAt> Are we rushing to the point where minerals will satisfy the last part of the
production or rushing the whole way and saving the minerals for the next build?
[11:35] GT^Commish> ?
[11:35] GT^Commish> We're upgrading.
[11:36] MrWhereItsAt> OK.
[11:36] GT^Commish> Anyway, we have a problem with those armoured formers.
[11:36] Maniac> How so?
[11:36] GT^Commish> We'll need to produce a clean super former design with armour fi we intend to
keep them.
[11:36] GT^Commish> They don't want to upgrade.
[11:37] Maniac> I didn't order to upgrade them for that very reason. Please only stick to the "0-1-1
super -> revised formers" this turn.
[11:37] GT^Commish> Ok.
[11:37] Maniac> How much cash have we left after that rush?
[11:37] GT^Commish> Haven't done it yet.
[11:37] Maniac> err upgrade.
[11:37] GT^Commish>

[11:38] GT^Commish> pgrading all ofour 1-1-1 super formers to revised formers would cost 2280 ECs.
[11:38] GT^Commish> * upgrading
[11:38] Maniac> ???
[11:38] Maniac> How much of those we have?
[11:38] GT^Commish> 38.
[11:38] * Evangelion-Freak has joined #smacdg
[11:38] GT^Commish> wb
[11:39] Maniac> Normally then the cost should be 1520 ec.
[11:39] Evangelion-Freak> ty
[11:39] GT^Commish> The point is, it isn't.
[11:39] GT^Commish>

[11:39] GT^Commish> It's the fusion reactors.
[11:39] Maniac> Ah
[11:39] Maniac> Not necessary, those.
[11:39] Maniac> I tested it all out this noon for optimal performance.

[11:40] * herc3 has joined #smacdg
[11:40] GT^Commish> Ok, now we're down to a reasonable price.
[11:40] Maniac> Rushing these 0-11's should cost 40 ec a piece. The other designs 60 ec per piece.
[11:40] GT^Commish> It will take us below 1000, but not by much.
[11:41] Maniac> indeed
[11:41] GT^Commish> So, do it?
[11:41] * Evangelion-Freak is now known as The-Evangelion-Freak
[11:41] * The-Evangelion-Freak is now known as Eva
[11:41] Maniac> Sure. Btw, did we loose a 0-1-1 former somewhere? I thought we had 39 when the chat
began.
[11:41] * Eva is now known as Evangelion-Fraek
[11:41] * Evangelion-Fraek is now known as Evangelion-Freak
[11:41] Maniac> Fraek
[11:41] GT^Commish> I think it was upgraded or something.
[11:41] Evangelion-Freak> Mucking about with nickserv
[11:42] Maniac> Really?

[11:45] herc3> what about my cruiser transports. Are then in someones Qs yet
[11:45] GT^Commish> Yes.
[11:45] GT^Commish> Valhala's
[11:45] herc3> ah good
[11:45] GT^Commish> And NS is now cranking out Missile Cruisers.
[11:45] Maniac> But first there are probe foils to steal Silksteel from the Hive.
[11:46] herc3> yes NS only needs 1 missile cruiser
[11:47] * herc2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[11:47] herc3> bye bye herc2
[11:52] herc3> This is slower than usual or are there just so much more units to move and
instructions to implemenet
[11:53] Maniac> The chats are bound to take longer and longer when the game advances.
[11:53] * Voltaire has left #smacdg
[11:53] GT^Commish> 2260 complete.
[11:54] GT^Commish> Supercollider complete.
[11:54] Maniac> Ah great.

[11:54] GT^Commish>

[11:54] Maniac> There we go.
[11:54] Maniac>

[11:54] herc3> bloody hell that was quick
[11:54] GT^Commish> Yang has just moved an army into The Leader'shorde.
[11:55] GT^Commish> * Leader's Horde
[11:55] Maniac> Yes there was a 80 mineral crawler which speeded things up.
[11:55] Maniac> So?
[11:55] Maniac> You mean several units?
[11:55] GT^Commish> It includes 5 misisle needljets.
[11:55] Maniac> That's annoying...
[11:56] GT^Commish> Which means he might be able to take UNSG.
[11:56] Maniac> Has he got a transport?
[11:56] GT^Commish> no, but he has a ship floating around somewhere.
[11:57] GT^Commish> Anyway, I think we need to move some interceptors across to hold him off if he
strikes.
[11:57] herc3> I agree
[11:57] Maniac> I see. In any case, if Herc approves it, I suggest we upgrade the garrisons of the
bases in strike range to 1/2-3>-1 AAAclean
[11:58] GT^Commish>

To that.
[11:58] Maniac> How many interceptors do we have to protect how many bases in strike range?
[11:58] GT^Commish> 7
[11:58] herc3> definitly
[11:59] GT^Commish> Will cost a total of 310 ECs.
[11:59] herc3> for all or just that base
[11:59] Maniac> We'll have to delay the other former upgrades then.
[12:00] GT^Commish> For all.
[12:00] herc3> ok with me
[12:01] Maniac> How many bases will have their garrisons upgraded?
[12:01] GT^Commish> 3.
[12:01] GT^Commish> The only one left out was UNSg, as it doesn't yet have a garrison.
[12:01] Maniac> tx
[12:01] Maniac> auch

[12:01] herc3> sweat
[12:01] GT^Commish> It has a ship posted there with AAA, though.
[12:02] Maniac> So how much of our 7 interceptors we should station in Slippery Ground?
[12:02] GT^Commish> I've posted 2 there.
[12:02] GT^Commish> Yang might strike anywhere within range.
[12:03] Maniac> So two other bases have two interceptors, and one one interceptor. Correct?
[12:03] GT^Commish> Correct.
[12:03] Maniac> Just trying to get a view of the situation.
[12:03] Maniac> tx
[12:03] GT^Commish> The one base with one defending it is Metropolis, because it probably won't be
hit.
[12:04] GT^Commish> And if it is, the planes that did it will be shot down afterwards.
[12:04] Maniac> Ok. We should be ready then.

[12:04] GT^Commish> Bring 'em on, I say

[12:06] GT^Commish> Ok, first transport built in Valhalla.
[12:07] GT^Commish> what should we do with it?
[12:07] Maniac> Hercules?
[12:08] Maniac> Did I order those probe foils before or after that transport?

[12:08] * Maniac slaps herc3 around a bit with a large trout
[12:08] herc3> either stya there waiting for invasion force or move to slightly nearer base. Now we
have MCC jouneys will be shorter
[12:09] GT^Commish> And our first Missile Cruiser has been built in NS.
[12:09] GT^Commish> What to do with that?
[12:09] GT^Commish> Send it out Hive-hunting?
[12:10] herc3> yes but in the direction towards Mouth of hercules. wasn't Yang building a skimship
[12:10] GT^Commish> Yes, but in the far north.
[12:13] herc3> In MT 2257 Yang had lots of needlejets in Mendelev College where did they go
[12:13] GT^Commish> To TLH.
[12:14] herc3> Ah that where they travelled from
[12:15] herc3> re the transport what do you think ? leave it where it is or move towrads Caprocorn
[12:15] herc3> or some other base
[12:15] GT^Commish> LEave it where it is, at least until the Hive threat up there has abated.
[12:16] GT^Commish> Also, leave it somewhere close to Egregion, so we can rehome it there once I've
finished setting it up as a specialist base.
[12:16] Maniac> Leave it until we have 8 military units assembled at Valhalla.
[12:16] herc3> Ok
[12:16] Maniac> Or yeah, move it to Egregion. Most units will have to go there anyway to rehome.
[12:17] GT^Commish> So, what to with that missile cruiser?
[12:18] GT^Commish> Hang on.
[12:18] GT^Commish> I just saw that yang has built a seabase off the former University coastline.
[12:18] GT^Commish> Should we try to take it?
[12:18] herc3> asssume it s unptrotected
[12:19] herc3> unprotected
[12:19] Maniac>

[12:19] GT^Commish> No, but that need not last.
[12:19] herc3> where exactly coords
[12:20] GT^Commish> Though it might be wiser to send two, just in case.
[12:20] GT^Commish> 55,77
[12:21] herc3> ah he's planning a move on Morgan
[12:21] GT^Commish> Maybe.
[12:21] GT^Commish> But he's not producing any transports.
[12:22] GT^Commish> And his air force is based near us.
[12:22] GT^Commish> So, what do we do???
[12:22] herc3> it wasn't until we found UNSG
[12:22] Maniac> I'll agree to whatever Hercules wants.

[12:22] GT^Commish> I'd say leave it for a turn so we can send two to occupy Sea Collective.
[12:23] herc3> alright
[12:23] GT^Commish> btw, might it be a good idea to upgrade future models to have AAA tracking?
[12:24] herc3> yes on a need basis
[12:24] Maniac> Let's decide that in the future.

[12:25] GT^Commish> I mean change the others we have in productino to AAA.
[12:26] herc3> there shouldn't be many more 1 more perhaps
[12:27] GT^Commish> There are another 3 still coming.
[12:28] herc3> Are we producing the foil probes they are priority
[12:28] GT^Commish> Yes, in Valhalla.
[12:29] Maniac> That base is completely devoted to the military now.

[12:29] herc3> request change in NS build queue I don't think we need 3 more , convert one to second
transport
[12:30] GT^Commish> Done.
[12:30] GT^Commish> 2261 Complete.
[12:31] GT^Commish> Most of the Hive planes have flown off to Yang Mine.
[12:31] GT^Commish>

[12:31] Maniac>

[12:31] GT^Commish> A Hive Missile Rover just landed near Capricorn and killed the two formers there.
[12:32] Maniac>

[12:32] GT^Commish> There were two, actually.
[12:32] GT^Commish> Luckily, we have the planes on hand to atomise them.
[12:32] Maniac> Where did that transport come from? Who knows he could attack our sea bases too then!
[12:32] Maniac> How much transports does he have?
[12:33] GT^Commish> It cam from the fungus.
[12:33] herc3> yeah but why didn't I send out a patrol
[12:33] GT^Commish> He has 4 other transports, but he an't invade our seabases, as he has no marines.
[12:33] GT^Commish> Anyway, so, ccan I use the interceptors against them?
[12:34] GT^Commish> First target: the Hive transport, odds of victory: 108 to 7 in our favour.
[12:34] Maniac>

[12:34] herc3> are they strong enough with the -50% ground defecit thing
[12:34] GT^Commish> Yes.
[12:34] GT^Commish> Did you see the odds I just posted?
[12:34] GT^Commish> It's a cakewalk.
[12:35] herc3> now i have go
[12:35] GT^Commish> For the transport, anyway.
[12:35] GT^Commish> transport sunk.
[12:35] GT^Commish> Next target: the hive rovers.
[12:35] GT^Commish> Using the base garrison's misisle launcher, odds of victory: 28 to 9, in our
favour.
[12:35] Maniac>

[12:35] herc3> yes
[12:36] GT^Commish> *BOOM*
[12:36] GT^Commish> No more Hive rover.
[12:36] Maniac> Since when do we have missile launchers there?

[12:36] herc3> a few prayers
[12:36] GT^Commish> It was part of the upgrade.
[12:36] GT^Commish> IT didn't add to the cost, so I added them in.
[12:36] Maniac> Ah great: extra invasion troops. What are the exact stats now?
[12:37] GT^Commish> Of what?
[12:37] Maniac> the garrisons
[12:37] Maniac> 6-3>-1 AAA clean or so?
[12:37] GT^Commish> In the bases where they were upgraded? 6-3>-1 AAA.
[12:37] Maniac> *2
[12:37] GT^Commish> Not clean, though.
[12:37] Maniac> ok tx
[12:38] GT^Commish> Anyway, last target: last Hive missile rover (90% damaged), odds of victory: 90
to 5, in our favour.
[12:38] herc3> yes say prayers agaian
[12:39] GT^Commish> *BOOM*
[12:39] GT^Commish> No more Hive rover.
[12:39] herc3> for the victims
[12:39] GT^Commish> So, Yang's first attempt at an invasion has been ignominously repulsed.
[12:40] Maniac> brb
[12:40] * Maniac has quit IRC (Quit: )
[12:40] herc3> whats brb
[12:40] GT^Commish> be right back.
[12:41] herc3> nevertheless he caught us by surprise.
[12:41] GT^Commish> Okay, I managed to destroy a Hive farm using a missile skimship.
[12:41] GT^Commish> Just make sit even more humiliating for him.
[12:41] GT^Commish> * makes it
[12:41] herc3> what is he up to with that Move to the mines
[12:41] GT^Commish> He got us with our pants down, and sitll failed...
[12:41] GT^Commish> No idea.
[12:44] * Maniac has joined #smacdg
[12:44] herc3> If we have a unplayed interceptor is there value in patrolloing that sea fungus or
have we spooted all there is to see
[12:44] Maniac> Tonight my Windows Media Player crashes every time I switch CD.

[12:44] GT^Commish> wb
[12:44] herc3> wb
[12:44] Maniac> tx
[12:51] herc3> Those formers (super) will need replaced at some stage.
[12:52] GT^Commish> 2262 complete.
[12:52] Maniac> ?
[12:52] Maniac> You mean the other unclean ones?
[12:52] GT^Commish> Mindworm boil spotted near DEM.
[12:52] herc3> the ones tha twere zapped
[12:52] Maniac> ah I see.
[12:53] GT^Commish> Superstring Theory developed.
[12:53] Maniac> Job for the governors I guess.
[12:53] GT^Commish> Options: Silksteel Alloys or Retroviral Engeering.
[12:53] Maniac> No others??

[12:53] GT^Commish> none.
[12:53] * Maniac slaps MrWhereItsAt around a bit with a large trout
[12:53] * Maniac slaps Evangelion-Freak around a bit with a large trout
[12:53] * Maniac slaps AdamTG^DoS around a bit with a large trout
[12:53] -> *MrWhereItsAt* prod.
[12:54] Maniac> SSA.
[12:54] -> *AdamTG^DoS* prod.
[12:54] herc3> I wanted to steal that and still do, so RE
[12:54] Maniac> ah yes true too - I forgot
[12:55] * GT^Commish slaps AdamTG^DoS around a bit with a large trout
[12:55] -> *AdamTG^DoS* Wakey wakey!
[12:55] Maniac> RVE - I guess we could justify it by saying it was researched in some obscure
Terminal Dogmatic lab without the government knowing it.
[12:55] GT^Commish> Eh?
[12:55] GT^Commish> Why would we need to do that?
[12:56] Maniac> Well retroviral engineering and its genetic warfare and genejack offsprings are
against the Peacekeeper ethics.
[12:56] GT^Commish> No, it isn't.
[12:56] Maniac> If you say so...
[12:56] GT^Commish> Genjacking and genetic warfare is, but the toehr stuff isn't.
[12:56] GT^Commish> * other
[12:56] Maniac> ok
[12:57] GT^Commish> That would be like saying that High energy Chemistry is agaisnt our ethics.
[12:57] herc3> we don't have to go there
[12:57] GT^Commish> Ok, given that Adam seems to be asleep, we'll have to do without him.
[12:58] GT^Commish> Quickpoll: 1 = SSA, 2 = RE, 3 = abstaion.
[12:58] GT^Commish> * abstain
[12:58] AdamTG^DoS> I agree that it isn't against our ethics. After all, it can be used for medical
purposes. Technology itself is value-neutral.
[12:58] * GT^Commish 3
[12:58] * Maniac 3
[12:58] herc3> 2
[12:58] GT^Commish> Ah, now you turn up.
[12:59] AdamTG^DoS> Silksteel Alloys has only gotten one vote in the last two polls. Therefore I vote
2.
[13:00] GT^Commish> Looks like it passes, then...
[13:00] AdamTG^DoS> (It's my job to interpret polls, even with scanty information as we have now.
And I take responsibility for that.)
[13:00] herc3> Good call
[13:00] AdamTG^DoS> Retroviral Enginering has never been polled, but Silksteel has -- and lost each
time.
[13:01] GT^Commish> Xenoempathy Dome complete in NT.
[13:01] herc3> at last greta party
[13:01] Evangelion-Freak>

[13:02] Maniac> Btw, an unrelated question. How much labs is Concordia producing now the SP is
completed?
[13:03] GT^Commish> 140.
[13:03] Maniac>

[13:05] herc3> Hows that probe foil progressing
[13:05] GT^Commish> Which one?
[13:06] GT^Commish> Valhalla is still building an Aerospace Complex.
[13:06] herc3> I thought we had started building them?
[13:06] GT^Commish> Not yet.
[13:06] GT^Commish> They're in the queue.
[13:06] Maniac> i see
[13:06] Maniac> We could always rush the aerospace complex

[13:07] GT^Commish> It'll be done next turn anyway.
[13:07] herc3> ah ok just anxious to steal that SSA
[13:07] Maniac> ok
[13:07] Maniac> Have we got enough cash btw to do the other requested former upgrades?
[13:07] GT^Commish> Probably.
[13:08] GT^Commish> * certainly
[13:08] GT^Commish> Shall we start?

GeneralTacticus · March 1, 2003, 23:30

[13:08] Maniac> sure
[13:09] Maniac> if we keep 1000 ec in reserves at the end
[13:09] * MrWhereItsAt has quit IRC (Quit: )
[13:13] GT^Commish> Ok, I think that's all of them.
[13:13] GT^Commish> Other than those armoured formers.
[13:13] Maniac> :b:
[13:13] GT^Commish> btw, isn't it about time to start giving our new designs Chaos Guns?
[13:14] GT^Commish> And switching production to them?
[13:14] herc3> oh yes
[13:15] Maniac> Though don't make designs we aren't gonna be producing in the near future. No use
cluttering up the unit workshop again.
[13:15] GT^Commish> Ok, time to send out our cruisers to take Sea Collective.
[13:15] herc3> hmm less enthusiastically for a peacekkeeper. yes that would be fine
[13:17] GT^Commish> Maniac: did you want anything built on 15,69?
[13:18] GT^Commish> btw, it seems Mendelev College just got eaten by mindworms.
[13:18] Maniac> err... I haven't got the game open. Could you please describe me that tile in
relation to a base, and its raininess etcetera.
[13:18] Maniac> ?
[13:19] GT^Commish> E SE of Pan, Rolling & moist, 2268 metres above sea level.
[13:19] GT^Commish> And I mean that mindworms have destroy MC.
[13:19] GT^Commish> It was empty last turn, and had worms outside it.
[13:20] Maniac> Ah I hoped forest would overgrow without me bothering. :)
[13:20] Maniac> Are the formers out of work?
[13:20] GT^Commish> So, you want a forest?
[13:21] Maniac> well yes, bur you DON'T need to send a former there.
[13:21] Maniac> waste of former time
[13:21] GT^Commish> The formers are already there.
[13:21] GT^Commish> That's why I was asking.
[13:24] GT^Commish> Herc: What should I do with the Missile Interceptor that just got built in Aurora?
[13:25] herc3> As in coming Dir of Foreign Affairs. At some stage before we close can I have an
update on latest communications with friends and neighbours.
[13:25] herc3> move it to ewgregion
[13:26] herc3> egregion
[13:27] GT^Commish> Maniac: Can I rush the hydro sat currently being built in TA for 114 ECs?
[13:28] Maniac> How much cash do we have?
[13:29] GT^Commish> 1484.
[13:29] Maniac> In that case, give a rush of about 100 ec to every region to keep things honest. :D
[13:29] Maniac> Is that 114 ec with or without overflow?
[13:30] GT^Commish> With ten mins overrun.
[13:30] Maniac> Ah. Could you please remove that. we aren't exactly swimming in cash. And please
remove the rush amount for the other regions to similar levels.
[13:30] Evangelion-Freak> Hmmm... 1400 credits to use on our development... you know, you could get a
lot of xenobrew with 1400 credits. You know, even if we took only a 100 credits aside, not a big
sum, we could throw one hell of a party. Who needs that children's creche anyway? I mean, we could
have booze. Strippers. And more booze.
[13:31] Evangelion-Freak> Come on. One hell of a party.
[13:31] Evangelion-Freak> :cute:
[13:31] GT^Commish> Without overrun, the total is 92 ECs.
[13:31] * Maniac looks at TEF with a strict father look. :shame: ;)
[13:32] Evangelion-Freak> One hell of a party! :cute:
[13:32] Maniac> Sure. Don't forget to do the same rush for every other region.
[13:32] Maniac> What other bases are you gonna rush?
[13:32] GT^Commish> Mysidia's Fusion Lab.
[13:33] GT^Commish> Not sure about the others.
[13:33] herc3> paint strippers is tha twha tthey drink your way
[13:33] GT^Commish> But why spend that much money?
[13:33] GT^Commish> It would take us well below 1000...
[13:34] Maniac> Well then don't spend any on centralis either. i'll leave you the choice. Either no
rushes, or one for each region.
[13:34] Maniac> I want to avoid conflict of interest. :)
[13:35] Maniac> GT? :cute:
[13:35] GT^Commish> Yes?
[13:35] Maniac> So will you rush for each region or none at all?
[13:35] GT^Commish> I'm busy executing your orders :rolleyes:
[13:35] GT^Commish> All of them.
[13:36] Maniac> Hey come on, what's with the :rolleyes: ! Can you give me a good reason why I'm
acting wrong?
[13:36] * Maniac slaps herc3 around a bit with a large trout
[13:36] GT^Commish> Because Centralis gets no more out of launching the satellite than anywhere else.
[13:36] herc3> Some regions need extar boost and some bases need extra push eg EGregion
[13:37] GT^Commish> So I fail to see what the problem with spending 100 ECs there and not elsewhere
is.
[13:37] Maniac> Good point! :cute:
[13:38] Maniac> Well then, you can spend an extra 100 ec at centralis ok? :D
[13:38] GT^Commish> I don't need anothe r100 in Centralis.
[13:38] Maniac> Ok then.
[13:40] * herc2 has joined #smacdg
[13:40] Maniac> Hi!
[13:40] herc2> hello again
[13:41] * GT^Commish: you're not channel operator
[13:41] GT^Commish> 2263 complete.
[13:41] GT^Commish> f*ck.
[13:41] Maniac> oh
[13:42] herc2> That imposter herc3 gave all the wrong instructions, sink the ships self distruct the
aircraft and jus tparty
[13:42] GT^Commish> An energy market crash just reduced our reserves to 262.
[13:42] GT^Commish> Fortunately, that was before our income was added to it.
[13:42] GT^Commish> So we're back to 960.
[13:42] Maniac> Fortunately we rushed some things last turn. ;) :lol:
[13:42] herc2> good thing
[13:43] Maniac> Are you still mad at me GT? ;)
[13:43] GT^Commish> Not really.
[13:43] Maniac> Good. I wouldn't want arguing GTs and Commissioners. :)
[13:43] Maniac> err ATs
[13:46] GT^Commish> Herc: Can I use the DEM garrison against the worms outside?
[13:46] GT^Commish> Odds of victory: 21 to 8 in our favour.
[13:47] herc2> of course old campaigners
[13:47] GT^Commish> *SQUELCH*
[13:47] GT^Commish> No more worms.
[13:47] herc2> medals
[13:47] GT^Commish> The TA empath rover is there to deal wit the other one.
[13:48] GT^Commish> * with
[13:50] * herc3 has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[13:50] GT^Commish> Just opened a pod that completed DEM's Fusion Lab.
[13:51] Maniac> :)
[13:51] GT^Commish> oops.
[13:51] Maniac> :(
[13:51] GT^Commish> :relief:
[13:51] Maniac> :)
[13:51] Maniac> ;)
[13:51] GT^Commish> I opened another pod by mistake but nothing bad came out.
[13:51] GT^Commish> It contained 100 ECs.
[13:51] Maniac> :) :)
[13:52] Maniac> Which brings our cash reserve back to 1000 ec I guess?
[13:52] GT^Commish> Uyp.
[13:52] GT^Commish> *Yup
[13:52] GT^Commish> Anyway, I think that's about it for this chat.
[13:52] Maniac> Good. The financial goal is made after all. :) :) :)
[13:52] herc2> I think some bases in Akiria could do with a boost at somes tage
[13:53] herc2> Yes alright
[13:53] herc2> but before you go check our foreign relations or is tha ttoo risky ?
[13:53] GT^Commish> What's to check?
[13:54] Maniac> How much 100s of ec's Yang asks??? :cute:
[13:54] herc2> Well maybe some of those in Vendetta want to make peace.
[13:55] GT^Commish> I suppose we might as well check.
[13:55] GT^Commish> Yang wants OS in return for peace.
[13:55] GT^Commish> Refused.
[13:55] GT^Commish> :eek:
[13:55] GT^Commish> He's actually willing to make peace with no strings attached.
[13:56] Maniac> Now that' a tough choice... Have you saved before making the call?
[13:56] GT^Commish> Yes.
[13:56] Maniac> Would it be allowed to ignore this call and poll first??
[13:56] herc2> interesting
[13:56] GT^Commish> No idea.
[13:57] GT^Commish> Probably not, but we could probably refuse and then call back later.
[13:57] herc2> We would have to poll
[13:57] Maniac> Indeed. But there's always the risk it's a one-time offer... :(
[13:57] GT^Commish> I doubt it would be.
[13:58] Maniac> Anyway, what will do now, DFA Hercules?
[13:58] GT^Commish> Even if it is we can probably change his mind with a few bombing raids...
[13:58] * Maniac suddenly waves away all responsibility. ;)
[13:58] Maniac> err that would have the opposite effect, in my experience.
[13:58] herc2> I think we ahve to accept the offer
[13:58] GT^Commish> Herc hasn't been sworn i as dFA yet, you know.
[13:58] GT^Commish> Herc: Unconstiutional.
[13:59] Maniac> You could also argue then it was unconstitutional to call him in the first place, as
herc wasn't DFA yet.
[13:59] herc2> was there a poll earlier on our stance
[13:59] GT^Commish> "Declare blood truce, peace, pacts if there hasn’t been a poll saying it is ok.
[13:59] Maniac> Difficult...
[13:59] Maniac> Months back I guess
[14:00] GT^Commish> During my time, most likely.
[14:00] Maniac> So will we vote on the followng things:
[14:00] Maniac> 1) do we post the save of before or after calling Yang?
[14:00] Maniac> 2) Do we accept his truce offer?
[14:00] * Maniac slaps Evangelion-Freak around a bit with a large trout
[14:00] * Maniac slaps AdamTG^DoS around a bit with a large trout
[14:00] AdamTG^DoS> Hmm. I can post a Court thread, to determine whether posting the prior save
would mean we played ahead.
[14:01] Maniac> Accepting the truce would be illegal, but calling Yang without DFA permission was too.
[14:01] GT^Commish> Unfortunately, we can't hang around for 48 hours until you reach a decision.
[14:01] Maniac> :lol:
[14:01] AdamTG^DoS> And... should I also include the question of whether the months-old hive policy
poll is still valid?
[14:01] Maniac> Make two saves?
[14:02] herc2> I m not sure calling other factions was illegal
[14:02] Evangelion-Freak> hey. slappage?
[14:02] herc2> make two saves
[14:02] Maniac> One before you called, and one wher you accept the offer. Later we can decide what's
the official one.
[14:02] GT^Commish> Yes, that sounds right.
[14:02] Maniac> herc2> I m not sure calling other factions was illegal: You weren't DFA yet, as GT
said.
[14:02] Evangelion-Freak> Better safe than sorry
[14:02] GT^Commish> Then ask the court which one should be the official one.
[14:03] Evangelion-Freak> You mean... work?!
[14:03] herc2> I agree
[14:03] AdamTG^DoS> Two saves would let us bring the question to the forum.
[14:03] Evangelion-Freak> Dang
[14:03] Maniac> Good. Gives them something to do. :D
[14:03] Evangelion-Freak> :p
[14:03] GT^Commish> So, what do we do about Yang's truce offer?
[14:03] GT^Commish> Refuse it?
[14:03] Evangelion-Freak> I'm trying to rake up a nice government pension here :cute:
[14:03] GT^Commish> Accept it?
[14:03] AdamTG^DoS> I'll post a thread, unless you want to do it, Kass.
[14:03] Maniac> Accept for the second save option?
[14:03] Evangelion-Freak> Adam, you do it
[14:03] Evangelion-Freak> I need to doze off soon anyway
[14:04] Maniac> If we refuse, we do the same as not making the call in the first place.
[14:04] AdamTG^DoS> I don't think we can, constitutionally. We m8ight be able to use the prior save
and accept it after a poll, but now... I don't think it's justified.
[14:04] GT^Commish> Don't think we can what?
[14:04] Evangelion-Freak> Bah, I should follow the chat a bit closely...
[14:04] herc2> Make the two saves and discuss
[14:05] GT^Commish> We never did plan for this eventuality...
[14:05] Maniac> This will be fun. :Party: :cute:
[14:05] AdamTG^DoS> I don't think we can accept Yang's offer constitutionally without bringing it up
to the forum first.
[14:05] herc2> It is now the 2 MArch am I not the DFA
[14:05] GT^Commish> The requirements about polling assume that we're the ones iniating the off, not
them.
[14:05] GT^Commish> Herc: No.
[14:05] Maniac> ) If a faction that we are currently at was with demands energy credits, laugh in
their face, unless of course it is a reasonable amount (meaning anything below 100ec); &
[14:05] GT^Commish> The chat is still going.
[14:05] Maniac> This could be interpreted we should accept.
[14:05] GT^Commish> OTOH, Voltaire never polled that.
[14:06] Evangelion-Freak> I don't think we should a truce it in the first place. It's not like we are
losing to Yang.
[14:06] Evangelion-Freak> *should accept
[14:06] Evangelion-Freak> But I guess it needs to be discussed
[14:06] Maniac> That's your personal opinion, not your legal.
[14:06] Maniac> indeed :)
[14:06] Maniac> So one save before the call, and one where we accepted the truce offer?
[14:06] Evangelion-Freak> Yes, that was personal, not official opinion :)
[14:06] GT^Commish> :dizzy:
[14:06] herc2> yes
[14:06] Maniac> :lol:
[14:06] Evangelion-Freak> Yes, sounds right
[14:07] Evangelion-Freak> refuse = same as if the call never happened
[14:07] Maniac> :b:
[14:07] Evangelion-Freak> I assume he's mad at us anyway, so his attitude shouldn't change
[14:07] GT^Commish> So, accept the offer, save it in a different file, then post both of them?
[14:07] Maniac> I would do it that way yes. :)
[14:07] herc2> I agree
[14:07] GT^Commish> Anyone object?
[14:07] Maniac> How will we deal with this issue?
[14:08] AdamTG^DoS> I'd recommend refusing the offer, and saving that.
[14:08] Maniac> First discuss it, or bring it to the judges right away?
[14:08] GT^Commish> Send it to the Court.
[14:08] GT^Commish> It's their job.
[14:08] AdamTG^DoS> It's not constitutional, in my opinion, to accept, given that making peace
without a poll is specifically prohibited.
[14:08] GT^Commish> But discuss it at the same time.
[14:08] Evangelion-Freak> Aw shucks, GT :cute:
[14:08] herc2> discuss it and send it to the court
[14:08] Maniac> AdamTG, I would want to argue that?
[14:08] AdamTG^DoS> I'm looking for an old poll that might justify it...
[14:08] Maniac> ?->.
[14:09] Maniac> Leave me that opportunity be saving with the 'Accept' option.
[14:09] Evangelion-Freak> afk
[14:09] Maniac> Refusing is the same as not calling anyway.
[14:09] herc2> I thought it was making war without a poll was prohibited
[14:09] GT^Commish> It is.
[14:09] Maniac> Then we can just use the save from before the call.
[14:09] Maniac> So are you still at the same diplo-screen GT?
[14:10] GT^Commish> Yes.
[14:10] Maniac> Ok.
[14:10] Evangelion-Freak> This should make a decent exemplary case, in any case
[14:10] AdamTG^DoS> Last Hive poll did endorse accpeting peace with no conditions... but it's from
November.
[14:10] GT^Commish> Precisely.
[14:10] Maniac> So please, accept, and later we can discuss.
[14:10] Maniac> to accept or refuse
[14:10] GT^Commish> nce again, any objections?
[14:10] herc2> accept
[14:10] GT^Commish> * Once
[14:10] AdamTG^DoS> I'll withdraw my objection if it'll mean we can close the turnchat and bring the
matter up in the forums.
[14:10] * Maniac accept
[14:11] * Maniac accept*s*.
[14:11] GT^Commish> Adam: That's exactly what we plan on doing.
[14:11] AdamTG^DoS> Yes, which is why I withdraw my objection.
[14:11] GT^Commish> Ok, so that's what we do.
[14:11] AdamTG^DoS> Sorry if my prasing is somewhat unclear.
[14:11] Maniac> A real case! :expect:
[14:11] GT^Commish> Right, truce signed.
[14:12] GT^Commish> Saved to a seperate file.
[14:12] Maniac> Please tell everyone to read the last part of the turnchat to make things clear.
[14:13] GT^Commish> Ok.
[14:13] Maniac> So who will post the log? I could, though I missed a few parts because I disconnected
a few times.
[14:13] herc2> the lawyers will make fortunes
[14:14] Evangelion-Freak> and the brand new judges have to work :\
[14:14] Evangelion-Freak> ;)
[14:14] GT^Commish> I'll post the log.
[14:14] Maniac> ok thanks
[14:15] Maniac> Personally I'm actually against signing peace, but I want to organize a poll to have
the citizens to have a word in it.
[14:15] Maniac> :)
[14:15] Evangelion-Freak> I concur with Maniac...
[14:15] GT^Commish> So do I.
[14:15] Maniac> So I was playing the devil's advocate. :evil:
[14:16] Evangelion-Freak> And I need to check what the con has to say about this
[14:16] Evangelion-Freak> Yang. So evil, he must be Finnish :cute:
[14:17] Maniac> Or: Nice gay Finnish last. :hmmm: ;)
[14:17] Evangelion-Freak> Ugh...
[14:17] Evangelion-Freak> You mean "guy"
[14:17] Evangelion-Freak> right :hmmm:
[14:17] Maniac> That's just what I had to think off when I read TKG's signature. :cute:
[14:18] Evangelion-Freak> Yes, but, eh, what do gays have to do with this? :cute:
[14:18] Maniac> Friendly homosexual Suomi stay. Just a language game. Ignore me. :cute:
[14:18] herc2> where's my wig but hold on am I allowed to adjudicate as my call led to this situation
[14:18] Evangelion-Freak> Okay...

GeneralTacticus · March 1, 2003, 23:30

[14:18] AdamTG^DoS> e. Case Presentation:
[14:18] AdamTG^DoS> The Court cannot act on any issue until a citizen of the nation brings forth an
Issue to The Court. Issues to The Court should be posted publicly and must involve a dispute that
the court is empowered to rule upon.
[14:18] Maniac> use of horrendously bad humour while on duty...
[14:19] * Evangelion-Freak reaches for his wig and gavel *
[14:19] Evangelion-Freak> citizen of the nation == anyone of you guys
[14:19] Maniac> Err. Please make me the citizen that brings forward the issue. But does that mean I
have to make the entire argumentation myself?
[14:19] AdamTG^DoS> I'm uncertain whether this falls under our jurisdiction, after reading the
Constitution... I could present the case to the Court as a member of the public, but then I would
have to recuse myself from the case due to conflict of interest.
[14:20] Evangelion-Freak>

[14:20] GT^Commish> This isn't a dispute.
[14:20] Evangelion-Freak> But do you need to take a specific stance to the matter?
[14:20] AdamTG^DoS> Not necessarily. I think it's within our jurisdiction to open the floor to
public comment.
[14:20] GT^Commish> It's a question of constiutionality.
[14:20] Maniac> Right!
[14:20] Evangelion-Freak> I mean, this is a question of interpreting the constitution by the court
[14:20] Maniac> Ther are legal arguments for each side.
[14:21] Evangelion-Freak> Therefore, Adam should have no bias to the matter
[14:21] Evangelion-Freak> (besides, who else would do it?=
[14:21] Evangelion-Freak> )
[14:21] Evangelion-Freak> Exactly, Maniac

[14:21] herc2> so I won't be blamed and publically humiliated and flogged
[14:21] AdamTG^DoS> The constitution says that we can't act on an issue -- not necessarily a case --
unless a member of the public brings it up.
[14:21] GT^Commish> Well, several members of the public have brought it up.
[14:21] Maniac> Yeah, call us the public prosecutor
[14:21] GT^Commish> Me and Maniac, for starters.
[14:21] Evangelion-Freak> Indeed.
[14:22] AdamTG^DoS> If you're doing so, Maniac, I'll note that in my post. But that doesn't mean you
have to file all the arguments. We can open the floor to the public.
[14:22] AdamTG^DoS> *nod* Makes sense.
[14:22] Evangelion-Freak> Yes. You aren't obligated to anything by bringing it up, IMO
[14:22] GT^Commish> Sounds good to me.
[14:22] AdamTG^DoS> I'll note you both as bringing the matter up.
[14:23] Maniac> What's the time limit for giving the argumentation?? (Should get up to date for that
part of the constitution as well)
[14:23] Maniac> I guess we should organize a public discussion thread, and then GT and me, as public
prosecutors or so, have to give a summary of the argumentation in the court thread.
[14:24] Maniac> Something like that?
[14:24] Maniac>

[14:24] AdamTG^DoS> No time limit specified in the Constitution. I believe it's set by the Senior
Justice, and we need three members of the Court to appoint one.
[14:24] herc2> Sssh can't you hear the crowds singing outside . 'All we are saying is give p sound
fades '
[14:24] * GT^Commish is examining the constiution to see if it says anything about this.
[14:24] AdamTG^DoS> I'll send PMs to the other Justices, in order to ensure we can get three to hear
the case.
[14:24] Evangelion-Freak> Hmm... three court members...
[14:25] * Evangelion-Freak looks around *
[14:25] Evangelion-Freak> Adam, herc, me?
[14:25] Maniac> MWIA and who are the others again?

[14:25] Evangelion-Freak> MWIA isn't a judge

[14:25] Maniac> ah
[14:25] GT^Commish> Drogue is.
[14:25] herc2> Pande who's going off
[14:25] Evangelion-Freak> Drogue, and, and some fifth person whose name escapes me
[14:26] Evangelion-Freak> Ah, yes, pan
[14:26] GT^Commish> No, Cedayon.
[14:26] Maniac> Anyway, can we assume the new Justices are already seated btw???

[14:26] Evangelion-Freak> Oh
[14:26] herc2> Yes cey
[14:26] GT^Commish> Pan didn't run for anything this term.
[14:26] Evangelion-Freak> I've never left my chair

[14:27] Maniac> The justice poll is already closed I just noticed.
[14:27] herc2> can we have a ruling by next turnchat do you think
[14:27] GT^Commish> Anyway, shall I post the turn report now?
[14:27] Evangelion-Freak> I only got 95 percent of votes, damn MWIA wanted to abstain from the entire
election

[14:27] * Maniac goes removing the spoilers in the term VII gov thread
[14:27] Maniac>

[14:29] Maniac> Oh btw, GT, could you please untop all election threads, except the DPO one, and also
Term VI gov and such?
[14:29] Evangelion-Freak> I think I'm gonna wander off to bed. 5:13 in the morning here *_*
[14:29] herc2> goodnight
[14:29] Maniac> good morning
[14:30] herc2> I am away too
[14:30] Evangelion-Freak> good night peeps (Maniac

)
[14:30] herc2> morning all
[14:30] * herc2 has quit IRC (Quit: )
[14:30] Maniac> see ya all.

[14:30] * Maniac has left #smacdg
[14:31] * Evangelion-Freak has left #smacdg (

)
End of #smacdg buffer Sun Mar 02 14:34:11 2003[11:29] Maniac> And then the DoS would have to decide, so SST after all.

[11:29] GT^Commish> Well, Kass would have had a vote.
[11:29] MrWhereItsAt> Just another of my missed chances. I really need to figure out how to get here
BEFORE time :~
[11:31] GT^Commish> Maniac: So, can we start upgrading formers?
[11:31] Maniac> How much cash do we have?
[11:32] GT^Commish> 2472 ECs.
[11:32] Maniac> I'd like to keep 1000 ec in reserve at all times. And I think it would take about
40x40 ec to upgrade our 0-1-1 formers, so no rushing before we have 2600ec.
[11:32] Maniac> Ah, next turn then.
[11:32] GT^Commish> And making 550 per turn.
[11:33] GT^Commish> we could always upgrade them one design at a time.
[11:33] Maniac> Indeed. Please upgrade former upgrade priority one of the list I made.
[11:34] herc2> how much would that cost
[11:34] Maniac> The others will be next turn then.
[11:34] Maniac> 0-1-1 super -> revised formers
[11:34] Maniac> About 1600 ec I believe.
[11:34] Maniac> But we save 40 minerals per turn.
[11:35] * Evangelion-Freak has quit IRC (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by koe)))
[11:35] MrWhereItsAt> Are we rushing to the point where minerals will satisfy the last part of the
production or rushing the whole way and saving the minerals for the next build?
[11:35] GT^Commish> ?
[11:35] GT^Commish> We're upgrading.
[11:36] MrWhereItsAt> OK.
[11:36] GT^Commish> Anyway, we have a problem with those armoured formers.
[11:36] Maniac> How so?
[11:36] GT^Commish> We'll need to produce a clean super former design with armour fi we intend to
keep them.
[11:36] GT^Commish> They don't want to upgrade.
[11:37] Maniac> I didn't order to upgrade them for that very reason. Please only stick to the "0-1-1
super -> revised formers" this turn.
[11:37] GT^Commish> Ok.
[11:37] Maniac> How much cash have we left after that rush?
[11:37] GT^Commish> Haven't done it yet.
[11:37] Maniac> err upgrade.
[11:37] GT^Commish>

[11:38] GT^Commish> pgrading all ofour 1-1-1 super formers to revised formers would cost 2280 ECs.
[11:38] GT^Commish> * upgrading
[11:38] Maniac> ???
[11:38] Maniac> How much of those we have?
[11:38] GT^Commish> 38.
[11:38] * Evangelion-Freak has joined #smacdg
[11:38] GT^Commish> wb
[11:39] Maniac> Normally then the cost should be 1520 ec.
[11:39] Evangelion-Freak> ty
[11:39] GT^Commish> The point is, it isn't.
[11:39] GT^Commish>

[11:39] GT^Commish> It's the fusion reactors.
[11:39] Maniac> Ah
[11:39] Maniac> Not necessary, those.
[11:39] Maniac> I tested it all out this noon for optimal performance.

[11:40] * herc3 has joined #smacdg
[11:40] GT^Commish> Ok, now we're down to a reasonable price.
[11:40] Maniac> Rushing these 0-11's should cost 40 ec a piece. The other designs 60 ec per piece.
[11:40] GT^Commish> It will take us below 1000, but not by much.
[11:41] Maniac> indeed
[11:41] GT^Commish> So, do it?
[11:41] * Evangelion-Freak is now known as The-Evangelion-Freak
[11:41] * The-Evangelion-Freak is now known as Eva
[11:41] Maniac> Sure. Btw, did we loose a 0-1-1 former somewhere? I thought we had 39 when the chat
began.
[11:41] * Eva is now known as Evangelion-Fraek
[11:41] * Evangelion-Fraek is now known as Evangelion-Freak
[11:41] Maniac> Fraek
[11:41] GT^Commish> I think it was upgraded or something.
[11:41] Evangelion-Freak> Mucking about with nickserv
[11:42] Maniac> Really?

[11:45] herc3> what about my cruiser transports. Are then in someones Qs yet
[11:45] GT^Commish> Yes.
[11:45] GT^Commish> Valhala's
[11:45] herc3> ah good
[11:45] GT^Commish> And NS is now cranking out Missile Cruisers.
[11:45] Maniac> But first there are probe foils to steal Silksteel from the Hive.
[11:46] herc3> yes NS only needs 1 missile cruiser
[11:47] * herc2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[11:47] herc3> bye bye herc2
[11:52] herc3> This is slower than usual or are there just so much more units to move and
instructions to implemenet
[11:53] Maniac> The chats are bound to take longer and longer when the game advances.
[11:53] * Voltaire has left #smacdg
[11:53] GT^Commish> 2260 complete.
[11:54] GT^Commish> Supercollider complete.
[11:54] Maniac> Ah great.

[11:54] GT^Commish>

[11:54] Maniac> There we go.
[11:54] Maniac>

[11:54] herc3> bloody hell that was quick
[11:54] GT^Commish> Yang has just moved an army into The Leader'shorde.
[11:55] GT^Commish> * Leader's Horde
[11:55] Maniac> Yes there was a 80 mineral crawler which speeded things up.
[11:55] Maniac> So?
[11:55] Maniac> You mean several units?
[11:55] GT^Commish> It includes 5 misisle needljets.
[11:55] Maniac> That's annoying...
[11:56] GT^Commish> Which means he might be able to take UNSG.
[11:56] Maniac> Has he got a transport?
[11:56] GT^Commish> no, but he has a ship floating around somewhere.
[11:57] GT^Commish> Anyway, I think we need to move some interceptors across to hold him off if he
strikes.
[11:57] herc3> I agree
[11:57] Maniac> I see. In any case, if Herc approves it, I suggest we upgrade the garrisons of the
bases in strike range to 1/2-3>-1 AAAclean
[11:58] GT^Commish>

To that.
[11:58] Maniac> How many interceptors do we have to protect how many bases in strike range?
[11:58] GT^Commish> 7
[11:58] herc3> definitly
[11:59] GT^Commish> Will cost a total of 310 ECs.
[11:59] herc3> for all or just that base
[11:59] Maniac> We'll have to delay the other former upgrades then.
[12:00] GT^Commish> For all.
[12:00] herc3> ok with me
[12:01] Maniac> How many bases will have their garrisons upgraded?
[12:01] GT^Commish> 3.
[12:01] GT^Commish> The only one left out was UNSg, as it doesn't yet have a garrison.
[12:01] Maniac> tx
[12:01] Maniac> auch

[12:01] herc3> sweat
[12:01] GT^Commish> It has a ship posted there with AAA, though.
[12:02] Maniac> So how much of our 7 interceptors we should station in Slippery Ground?
[12:02] GT^Commish> I've posted 2 there.
[12:02] GT^Commish> Yang might strike anywhere within range.
[12:03] Maniac> So two other bases have two interceptors, and one one interceptor. Correct?
[12:03] GT^Commish> Correct.
[12:03] Maniac> Just trying to get a view of the situation.
[12:03] Maniac> tx
[12:03] GT^Commish> The one base with one defending it is Metropolis, because it probably won't be
hit.
[12:04] GT^Commish> And if it is, the planes that did it will be shot down afterwards.
[12:04] Maniac> Ok. We should be ready then.

[12:04] GT^Commish> Bring 'em on, I say

[12:06] GT^Commish> Ok, first transport built in Valhalla.
[12:07] GT^Commish> what should we do with it?
[12:07] Maniac> Hercules?
[12:08] Maniac> Did I order those probe foils before or after that transport?

[12:08] * Maniac slaps herc3 around a bit with a large trout
[12:08] herc3> either stya there waiting for invasion force or move to slightly nearer base. Now we
have MCC jouneys will be shorter
[12:09] GT^Commish> And our first Missile Cruiser has been built in NS.
[12:09] GT^Commish> What to do with that?
[12:09] GT^Commish> Send it out Hive-hunting?
[12:10] herc3> yes but in the direction towards Mouth of hercules. wasn't Yang building a skimship
[12:10] GT^Commish> Yes, but in the far north.
[12:13] herc3> In MT 2257 Yang had lots of needlejets in Mendelev College where did they go
[12:13] GT^Commish> To TLH.
[12:14] herc3> Ah that where they travelled from
[12:15] herc3> re the transport what do you think ? leave it where it is or move towrads Caprocorn
[12:15] herc3> or some other base
[12:15] GT^Commish> LEave it where it is, at least until the Hive threat up there has abated.
[12:16] GT^Commish> Also, leave it somewhere close to Egregion, so we can rehome it there once I've
finished setting it up as a specialist base.
[12:16] Maniac> Leave it until we have 8 military units assembled at Valhalla.
[12:16] herc3> Ok
[12:16] Maniac> Or yeah, move it to Egregion. Most units will have to go there anyway to rehome.
[12:17] GT^Commish> So, what to with that missile cruiser?
[12:18] GT^Commish> Hang on.
[12:18] GT^Commish> I just saw that yang has built a seabase off the former University coastline.
[12:18] GT^Commish> Should we try to take it?
[12:18] herc3> asssume it s unptrotected
[12:19] herc3> unprotected
[12:19] Maniac>

[12:19] GT^Commish> No, but that need not last.
[12:19] herc3> where exactly coords
[12:20] GT^Commish> Though it might be wiser to send two, just in case.
[12:20] GT^Commish> 55,77
[12:21] herc3> ah he's planning a move on Morgan
[12:21] GT^Commish> Maybe.
[12:21] GT^Commish> But he's not producing any transports.
[12:22] GT^Commish> And his air force is based near us.
[12:22] GT^Commish> So, what do we do???
[12:22] herc3> it wasn't until we found UNSG
[12:22] Maniac> I'll agree to whatever Hercules wants.

[12:22] GT^Commish> I'd say leave it for a turn so we can send two to occupy Sea Collective.
[12:23] herc3> alright
[12:23] GT^Commish> btw, might it be a good idea to upgrade future models to have AAA tracking?
[12:24] herc3> yes on a need basis
[12:24] Maniac> Let's decide that in the future.

[12:25] GT^Commish> I mean change the others we have in productino to AAA.
[12:26] herc3> there shouldn't be many more 1 more perhaps
[12:27] GT^Commish> There are another 3 still coming.
[12:28] herc3> Are we producing the foil probes they are priority
[12:28] GT^Commish> Yes, in Valhalla.
[12:29] Maniac> That base is completely devoted to the military now.

[12:29] herc3> request change in NS build queue I don't think we need 3 more , convert one to second
transport
[12:30] GT^Commish> Done.
[12:30] GT^Commish> 2261 Complete.
[12:31] GT^Commish> Most of the Hive planes have flown off to Yang Mine.
[12:31] GT^Commish>

[12:31] Maniac>

[12:31] GT^Commish> A Hive Missile Rover just landed near Capricorn and killed the two formers there.
[12:32] Maniac>

[12:32] GT^Commish> There were two, actually.
[12:32] GT^Commish> Luckily, we have the planes on hand to atomise them.
[12:32] Maniac> Where did that transport come from? Who knows he could attack our sea bases too then!
[12:32] Maniac> How much transports does he have?
[12:33] GT^Commish> It cam from the fungus.
[12:33] herc3> yeah but why didn't I send out a patrol
[12:33] GT^Commish> He has 4 other transports, but he an't invade our seabases, as he has no marines.
[12:33] GT^Commish> Anyway, so, ccan I use the interceptors against them?
[12:34] GT^Commish> First target: the Hive transport, odds of victory: 108 to 7 in our favour.
[12:34] Maniac>

[12:34] herc3> are they strong enough with the -50% ground defecit thing
[12:34] GT^Commish> Yes.
[12:34] GT^Commish> Did you see the odds I just posted?
[12:34] GT^Commish> It's a cakewalk.
[12:35] herc3> now i have go
[12:35] GT^Commish> For the transport, anyway.
[12:35] GT^Commish> transport sunk.
[12:35] GT^Commish> Next target: the hive rovers.
[12:35] GT^Commish> Using the base garrison's misisle launcher, odds of victory: 28 to 9, in our
favour.
[12:35] Maniac>

[12:35] herc3> yes
[12:36] GT^Commish> *BOOM*
[12:36] GT^Commish> No more Hive rover.
[12:36] Maniac> Since when do we have missile launchers there?

[12:36] herc3> a few prayers
[12:36] GT^Commish> It was part of the upgrade.
[12:36] GT^Commish> IT didn't add to the cost, so I added them in.
[12:36] Maniac> Ah great: extra invasion troops. What are the exact stats now?
[12:37] GT^Commish> Of what?
[12:37] Maniac> the garrisons
[12:37] Maniac> 6-3>-1 AAA clean or so?
[12:37] GT^Commish> In the bases where they were upgraded? 6-3>-1 AAA.
[12:37] Maniac> *2
[12:37] GT^Commish> Not clean, though.
[12:37] Maniac> ok tx
[12:38] GT^Commish> Anyway, last target: last Hive missile rover (90% damaged), odds of victory: 90
to 5, in our favour.
[12:38] herc3> yes say prayers agaian
[12:39] GT^Commish> *BOOM*
[12:39] GT^Commish> No more Hive rover.
[12:39] herc3> for the victims
[12:39] GT^Commish> So, Yang's first attempt at an invasion has been ignominously repulsed.
[12:40] Maniac> brb
[12:40] * Maniac has quit IRC (Quit: )
[12:40] herc3> whats brb
[12:40] GT^Commish> be right back.
[12:41] herc3> nevertheless he caught us by surprise.
[12:41] GT^Commish> Okay, I managed to destroy a Hive farm using a missile skimship.
[12:41] GT^Commish> Just make sit even more humiliating for him.
[12:41] GT^Commish> * makes it
[12:41] herc3> what is he up to with that Move to the mines
[12:41] GT^Commish> He got us with our pants down, and sitll failed...
[12:41] GT^Commish> No idea.
[12:44] * Maniac has joined #smacdg
[12:44] herc3> If we have a unplayed interceptor is there value in patrolloing that sea fungus or
have we spooted all there is to see
[12:44] Maniac> Tonight my Windows Media Player crashes every time I switch CD.

[12:44] GT^Commish> wb
[12:44] herc3> wb
[12:44] Maniac> tx
[12:51] herc3> Those formers (super) will need replaced at some stage.
[12:52] GT^Commish> 2262 complete.
[12:52] Maniac> ?
[12:52] Maniac> You mean the other unclean ones?
[12:52] GT^Commish> Mindworm boil spotted near DEM.
[12:52] herc3> the ones tha twere zapped
[12:52] Maniac> ah I see.
[12:53] GT^Commish> Superstring Theory developed.
[12:53] Maniac> Job for the governors I guess.

GeneralTacticus · March 1, 2003, 23:31

[12:53] GT^Commish> Options: Silksteel Alloys or Retroviral Engeering.
[12:53] Maniac> No others??

[12:53] GT^Commish> none.
[12:53] * Maniac slaps MrWhereItsAt around a bit with a large trout
[12:53] * Maniac slaps Evangelion-Freak around a bit with a large trout
[12:53] * Maniac slaps AdamTG^DoS around a bit with a large trout
[12:53] -> *MrWhereItsAt* prod.
[12:54] Maniac> SSA.
[12:54] -> *AdamTG^DoS* prod.
[12:54] herc3> I wanted to steal that and still do, so RE
[12:54] Maniac> ah yes true too - I forgot
[12:55] * GT^Commish slaps AdamTG^DoS around a bit with a large trout
[12:55] -> *AdamTG^DoS* Wakey wakey!
[12:55] Maniac> RVE - I guess we could justify it by saying it was researched in some obscure
Terminal Dogmatic lab without the government knowing it.
[12:55] GT^Commish> Eh?
[12:55] GT^Commish> Why would we need to do that?
[12:56] Maniac> Well retroviral engineering and its genetic warfare and genejack offsprings are
against the Peacekeeper ethics.
[12:56] GT^Commish> No, it isn't.
[12:56] Maniac> If you say so...
[12:56] GT^Commish> Genjacking and genetic warfare is, but the toehr stuff isn't.
[12:56] GT^Commish> * other
[12:56] Maniac> ok
[12:57] GT^Commish> That would be like saying that High energy Chemistry is agaisnt our ethics.
[12:57] herc3> we don't have to go there
[12:57] GT^Commish> Ok, given that Adam seems to be asleep, we'll have to do without him.
[12:58] GT^Commish> Quickpoll: 1 = SSA, 2 = RE, 3 = abstaion.
[12:58] GT^Commish> * abstain
[12:58] AdamTG^DoS> I agree that it isn't against our ethics. After all, it can be used for medical
purposes. Technology itself is value-neutral.
[12:58] * GT^Commish 3
[12:58] * Maniac 3
[12:58] herc3> 2
[12:58] GT^Commish> Ah, now you turn up.
[12:59] AdamTG^DoS> Silksteel Alloys has only gotten one vote in the last two polls. Therefore I vote
2.
[13:00] GT^Commish> Looks like it passes, then...
[13:00] AdamTG^DoS> (It's my job to interpret polls, even with scanty information as we have now.
And I take responsibility for that.)
[13:00] herc3> Good call
[13:00] AdamTG^DoS> Retroviral Enginering has never been polled, but Silksteel has -- and lost each
time.
[13:01] GT^Commish> Xenoempathy Dome complete in NT.
[13:01] herc3> at last greta party
[13:01] Evangelion-Freak>

[13:02] Maniac> Btw, an unrelated question. How much labs is Concordia producing now the SP is
completed?
[13:03] GT^Commish> 140.
[13:03] Maniac>

[13:05] herc3> Hows that probe foil progressing
[13:05] GT^Commish> Which one?
[13:06] GT^Commish> Valhalla is still building an Aerospace Complex.
[13:06] herc3> I thought we had started building them?
[13:06] GT^Commish> Not yet.
[13:06] GT^Commish> They're in the queue.
[13:06] Maniac> i see
[13:06] Maniac> We could always rush the aerospace complex

[13:07] GT^Commish> It'll be done next turn anyway.
[13:07] herc3> ah ok just anxious to steal that SSA
[13:07] Maniac> ok
[13:07] Maniac> Have we got enough cash btw to do the other requested former upgrades?
[13:07] GT^Commish> Probably.
[13:08] GT^Commish> * certainly
[13:08] GT^Commish> Shall we start?
[13:08] Maniac> sure
[13:09] Maniac> if we keep 1000 ec in reserves at the end
[13:09] * MrWhereItsAt has quit IRC (Quit: )
[13:13] GT^Commish> Ok, I think that's all of them.
[13:13] GT^Commish> Other than those armoured formers.
[13:13] Maniac>

[13:13] GT^Commish> btw, isn't it about time to start giving our new designs Chaos Guns?
[13:14] GT^Commish> And switching production to them?
[13:14] herc3> oh yes
[13:15] Maniac> Though don't make designs we aren't gonna be producing in the near future. No use
cluttering up the unit workshop again.
[13:15] GT^Commish> Ok, time to send out our cruisers to take Sea Collective.
[13:15] herc3> hmm less enthusiastically for a peacekkeeper. yes that would be fine
[13:17] GT^Commish> Maniac: did you want anything built on 15,69?
[13:18] GT^Commish> btw, it seems Mendelev College just got eaten by mindworms.
[13:18] Maniac> err... I haven't got the game open. Could you please describe me that tile in
relation to a base, and its raininess etcetera.
[13:18] Maniac> ?
[13:19] GT^Commish> E SE of Pan, Rolling & moist, 2268 metres above sea level.
[13:19] GT^Commish> And I mean that mindworms have destroy MC.
[13:19] GT^Commish> It was empty last turn, and had worms outside it.
[13:20] Maniac> Ah I hoped forest would overgrow without me bothering.

[13:20] Maniac> Are the formers out of work?
[13:20] GT^Commish> So, you want a forest?
[13:21] Maniac> well yes, bur you DON'T need to send a former there.
[13:21] Maniac> waste of former time
[13:21] GT^Commish> The formers are already there.
[13:21] GT^Commish> That's why I was asking.
[13:24] GT^Commish> Herc: What should I do with the Missile Interceptor that just got built in Aurora?
[13:25] herc3> As in coming Dir of Foreign Affairs. At some stage before we close can I have an
update on latest communications with friends and neighbours.
[13:25] herc3> move it to ewgregion
[13:26] herc3> egregion
[13:27] GT^Commish> Maniac: Can I rush the hydro sat currently being built in TA for 114 ECs?
[13:28] Maniac> How much cash do we have?
[13:29] GT^Commish> 1484.
[13:29] Maniac> In that case, give a rush of about 100 ec to every region to keep things honest.

[13:29] Maniac> Is that 114 ec with or without overflow?
[13:30] GT^Commish> With ten mins overrun.
[13:30] Maniac> Ah. Could you please remove that. we aren't exactly swimming in cash. And please
remove the rush amount for the other regions to similar levels.
[13:30] Evangelion-Freak> Hmmm... 1400 credits to use on our development... you know, you could get a
lot of xenobrew with 1400 credits. You know, even if we took only a 100 credits aside, not a big
sum, we could throw one hell of a party. Who needs that children's creche anyway? I mean, we could
have booze. Strippers. And more booze.
[13:31] Evangelion-Freak> Come on. One hell of a party.
[13:31] Evangelion-Freak>

[13:31] GT^Commish> Without overrun, the total is 92 ECs.
[13:31] * Maniac looks at TEF with a strict father look.

[13:32] Evangelion-Freak> One hell of a party!

[13:32] Maniac> Sure. Don't forget to do the same rush for every other region.
[13:32] Maniac> What other bases are you gonna rush?
[13:32] GT^Commish> Mysidia's Fusion Lab.
[13:33] GT^Commish> Not sure about the others.
[13:33] herc3> paint strippers is tha twha tthey drink your way
[13:33] GT^Commish> But why spend that much money?
[13:33] GT^Commish> It would take us well below 1000...
[13:34] Maniac> Well then don't spend any on centralis either. i'll leave you the choice. Either no
rushes, or one for each region.
[13:34] Maniac> I want to avoid conflict of interest.

[13:35] Maniac> GT?

[13:35] GT^Commish> Yes?
[13:35] Maniac> So will you rush for each region or none at all?
[13:35] GT^Commish> I'm busy executing your orders

[13:35] GT^Commish> All of them.
[13:36] Maniac> Hey come on, what's with the

! Can you give me a good reason why I'm
acting wrong?
[13:36] * Maniac slaps herc3 around a bit with a large trout
[13:36] GT^Commish> Because Centralis gets no more out of launching the satellite than anywhere else.
[13:36] herc3> Some regions need extar boost and some bases need extra push eg EGregion
[13:37] GT^Commish> So I fail to see what the problem with spending 100 ECs there and not elsewhere
is.
[13:37] Maniac> Good point!

[13:38] Maniac> Well then, you can spend an extra 100 ec at centralis ok?

[13:38] GT^Commish> I don't need anothe r100 in Centralis.
[13:38] Maniac> Ok then.
[13:40] * herc2 has joined #smacdg
[13:40] Maniac> Hi!
[13:40] herc2> hello again
[13:41] * GT^Commish: you're not channel operator
[13:41] GT^Commish> 2263 complete.
[13:41] GT^Commish> f*ck.
[13:41] Maniac> oh
[13:42] herc2> That imposter herc3 gave all the wrong instructions, sink the ships self distruct the
aircraft and jus tparty
[13:42] GT^Commish> An energy market crash just reduced our reserves to 262.
[13:42] GT^Commish> Fortunately, that was before our income was added to it.
[13:42] GT^Commish> So we're back to 960.
[13:42] Maniac> Fortunately we rushed some things last turn.

[13:42] herc2> good thing
[13:43] Maniac> Are you still mad at me GT?

[13:43] GT^Commish> Not really.
[13:43] Maniac> Good. I wouldn't want arguing GTs and Commissioners.

[13:43] Maniac> err ATs
[13:46] GT^Commish> Herc: Can I use the DEM garrison against the worms outside?
[13:46] GT^Commish> Odds of victory: 21 to 8 in our favour.
[13:47] herc2> of course old campaigners
[13:47] GT^Commish> *SQUELCH*
[13:47] GT^Commish> No more worms.
[13:47] herc2> medals
[13:47] GT^Commish> The TA empath rover is there to deal wit the other one.
[13:48] GT^Commish> * with
[13:50] * herc3 has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[13:50] GT^Commish> Just opened a pod that completed DEM's Fusion Lab.
[13:51] Maniac>

[13:51] GT^Commish> oops.
[13:51] Maniac>

[13:51] GT^Commish>

[13:51] Maniac>

[13:51] GT^Commish> I opened another pod by mistake but nothing bad came out.
[13:51] GT^Commish> It contained 100 ECs.
[13:51] Maniac>

[13:52] Maniac> Which brings our cash reserve back to 1000 ec I guess?
[13:52] GT^Commish> Uyp.
[13:52] GT^Commish> *Yup
[13:52] GT^Commish> Anyway, I think that's about it for this chat.
[13:52] Maniac> Good. The financial goal is made after all.

[13:52] herc2> I think some bases in Akiria could do with a boost at somes tage
[13:53] herc2> Yes alright
[13:53] herc2> but before you go check our foreign relations or is tha ttoo risky ?
[13:53] GT^Commish> What's to check?
[13:54] Maniac> How much 100s of ec's Yang asks???

[13:54] herc2> Well maybe some of those in Vendetta want to make peace.
[13:55] GT^Commish> I suppose we might as well check.
[13:55] GT^Commish> Yang wants OS in return for peace.
[13:55] GT^Commish> Refused.
[13:55] GT^Commish>

[13:55] GT^Commish> He's actually willing to make peace with no strings attached.
[13:56] Maniac> Now that' a tough choice... Have you saved before making the call?
[13:56] GT^Commish> Yes.
[13:56] Maniac> Would it be allowed to ignore this call and poll first??
[13:56] herc2> interesting
[13:56] GT^Commish> No idea.
[13:57] GT^Commish> Probably not, but we could probably refuse and then call back later.
[13:57] herc2> We would have to poll
[13:57] Maniac> Indeed. But there's always the risk it's a one-time offer...

[13:57] GT^Commish> I doubt it would be.
[13:58] Maniac> Anyway, what will do now, DFA Hercules?
[13:58] GT^Commish> Even if it is we can probably change his mind with a few bombing raids...
[13:58] * Maniac suddenly waves away all responsibility.

[13:58] Maniac> err that would have the opposite effect, in my experience.
[13:58] herc2> I think we ahve to accept the offer
[13:58] GT^Commish> Herc hasn't been sworn i as dFA yet, you know.
[13:58] GT^Commish> Herc: Unconstiutional.
[13:59] Maniac> You could also argue then it was unconstitutional to call him in the first place, as
herc wasn't DFA yet.
[13:59] herc2> was there a poll earlier on our stance
[13:59] GT^Commish> "Declare blood truce, peace, pacts if there hasn’t been a poll saying it is ok.
[13:59] Maniac> Difficult...
[13:59] Maniac> Months back I guess
[14:00] GT^Commish> During my time, most likely.
[14:00] Maniac> So will we vote on the followng things:
[14:00] Maniac> 1) do we post the save of before or after calling Yang?
[14:00] Maniac> 2) Do we accept his truce offer?
[14:00] * Maniac slaps Evangelion-Freak around a bit with a large trout
[14:00] * Maniac slaps AdamTG^DoS around a bit with a large trout
[14:00] AdamTG^DoS> Hmm. I can post a Court thread, to determine whether posting the prior save
would mean we played ahead.
[14:01] Maniac> Accepting the truce would be illegal, but calling Yang without DFA permission was too.
[14:01] GT^Commish> Unfortunately, we can't hang around for 48 hours until you reach a decision.
[14:01] Maniac>

[14:01] AdamTG^DoS> And... should I also include the question of whether the months-old hive policy
poll is still valid?
[14:01] Maniac> Make two saves?
[14:02] herc2> I m not sure calling other factions was illegal
[14:02] Evangelion-Freak> hey. slappage?
[14:02] herc2> make two saves
[14:02] Maniac> One before you called, and one wher you accept the offer. Later we can decide what's
the official one.
[14:02] GT^Commish> Yes, that sounds right.
[14:02] Maniac> herc2> I m not sure calling other factions was illegal: You weren't DFA yet, as GT
said.
[14:02] Evangelion-Freak> Better safe than sorry
[14:02] GT^Commish> Then ask the court which one should be the official one.
[14:03] Evangelion-Freak> You mean... work?!
[14:03] herc2> I agree
[14:03] AdamTG^DoS> Two saves would let us bring the question to the forum.

GeneralTacticus · March 1, 2003, 23:32

[14:03] Evangelion-Freak> Dang
[14:03] Maniac> Good. Gives them something to do.

[14:03] Evangelion-Freak>

[14:03] GT^Commish> So, what do we do about Yang's truce offer?
[14:03] GT^Commish> Refuse it?
[14:03] Evangelion-Freak> I'm trying to rake up a nice government pension here

[14:03] GT^Commish> Accept it?
[14:03] AdamTG^DoS> I'll post a thread, unless you want to do it, Kass.
[14:03] Maniac> Accept for the second save option?
[14:03] Evangelion-Freak> Adam, you do it
[14:03] Evangelion-Freak> I need to doze off soon anyway
[14:04] Maniac> If we refuse, we do the same as not making the call in the first place.
[14:04] AdamTG^DoS> I don't think we can, constitutionally. We m8ight be able to use the prior save
and accept it after a poll, but now... I don't think it's justified.
[14:04] GT^Commish> Don't think we can what?
[14:04] Evangelion-Freak> Bah, I should follow the chat a bit closely...
[14:04] herc2> Make the two saves and discuss
[14:05] GT^Commish> We never did plan for this eventuality...
[14:05] Maniac> This will be fun.

[14:05] AdamTG^DoS> I don't think we can accept Yang's offer constitutionally without bringing it up
to the forum first.
[14:05] herc2> It is now the 2 MArch am I not the DFA
[14:05] GT^Commish> The requirements about polling assume that we're the ones iniating the off, not
them.
[14:05] GT^Commish> Herc: No.
[14:05] Maniac> ) If a faction that we are currently at was with demands energy credits, laugh in
their face, unless of course it is a reasonable amount (meaning anything below 100ec); &
[14:05] GT^Commish> The chat is still going.
[14:05] Maniac> This could be interpreted we should accept.
[14:05] GT^Commish> OTOH, Voltaire never polled that.
[14:06] Evangelion-Freak> I don't think we should a truce it in the first place. It's not like we are
losing to Yang.
[14:06] Evangelion-Freak> *should accept
[14:06] Evangelion-Freak> But I guess it needs to be discussed
[14:06] Maniac> That's your personal opinion, not your legal.
[14:06] Maniac> indeed

[14:06] Maniac> So one save before the call, and one where we accepted the truce offer?
[14:06] Evangelion-Freak> Yes, that was personal, not official opinion

[14:06] GT^Commish>

[14:06] herc2> yes
[14:06] Maniac>

[14:06] Evangelion-Freak> Yes, sounds right
[14:07] Evangelion-Freak> refuse = same as if the call never happened
[14:07] Maniac>

[14:07] Evangelion-Freak> I assume he's mad at us anyway, so his attitude shouldn't change
[14:07] GT^Commish> So, accept the offer, save it in a different file, then post both of them?
[14:07] Maniac> I would do it that way yes.

[14:07] herc2> I agree
[14:07] GT^Commish> Anyone object?
[14:07] Maniac> How will we deal with this issue?
[14:08] AdamTG^DoS> I'd recommend refusing the offer, and saving that.
[14:08] Maniac> First discuss it, or bring it to the judges right away?
[14:08] GT^Commish> Send it to the Court.
[14:08] GT^Commish> It's their job.
[14:08] AdamTG^DoS> It's not constitutional, in my opinion, to accept, given that making peace
without a poll is specifically prohibited.
[14:08] GT^Commish> But discuss it at the same time.
[14:08] Evangelion-Freak> Aw shucks, GT

[14:08] herc2> discuss it and send it to the court
[14:08] Maniac> AdamTG, I would want to argue that?
[14:08] AdamTG^DoS> I'm looking for an old poll that might justify it...
[14:08] Maniac> ?->.
[14:09] Maniac> Leave me that opportunity be saving with the 'Accept' option.
[14:09] Evangelion-Freak> afk
[14:09] Maniac> Refusing is the same as not calling anyway.
[14:09] herc2> I thought it was making war without a poll was prohibited
[14:09] GT^Commish> It is.
[14:09] Maniac> Then we can just use the save from before the call.
[14:09] Maniac> So are you still at the same diplo-screen GT?
[14:10] GT^Commish> Yes.
[14:10] Maniac> Ok.
[14:10] Evangelion-Freak> This should make a decent exemplary case, in any case
[14:10] AdamTG^DoS> Last Hive poll did endorse accpeting peace with no conditions... but it's from
November.
[14:10] GT^Commish> Precisely.
[14:10] Maniac> So please, accept, and later we can discuss.
[14:10] Maniac> to accept or refuse
[14:10] GT^Commish> nce again, any objections?
[14:10] herc2> accept
[14:10] GT^Commish> * Once
[14:10] AdamTG^DoS> I'll withdraw my objection if it'll mean we can close the turnchat and bring the
matter up in the forums.
[14:10] * Maniac accept
[14:11] * Maniac accept*s*.
[14:11] GT^Commish> Adam: That's exactly what we plan on doing.
[14:11] AdamTG^DoS> Yes, which is why I withdraw my objection.
[14:11] GT^Commish> Ok, so that's what we do.
[14:11] AdamTG^DoS> Sorry if my prasing is somewhat unclear.
[14:11] Maniac> A real case!

[14:11] GT^Commish> Right, truce signed.
[14:12] GT^Commish> Saved to a seperate file.
[14:12] Maniac> Please tell everyone to read the last part of the turnchat to make things clear.
[14:13] GT^Commish> Ok.
[14:13] Maniac> So who will post the log? I could, though I missed a few parts because I disconnected
a few times.
[14:13] herc2> the lawyers will make fortunes
[14:14] Evangelion-Freak> and the brand new judges have to work :\
[14:14] Evangelion-Freak>

[14:14] GT^Commish> I'll post the log.
[14:14] Maniac> ok thanks
[14:15] Maniac> Personally I'm actually against signing peace, but I want to organize a poll to have
the citizens to have a word in it.
[14:15] Maniac>

[14:15] Evangelion-Freak> I concur with Maniac...
[14:15] GT^Commish> So do I.
[14:15] Maniac> So I was playing the devil's advocate.

[14:16] Evangelion-Freak> And I need to check what the con has to say about this
[14:16] Evangelion-Freak> Yang. So evil, he must be Finnish

[14:17] Maniac> Or: Nice gay Finnish last.

[14:17] Evangelion-Freak> Ugh...
[14:17] Evangelion-Freak> You mean "guy"
[14:17] Evangelion-Freak> right

[14:17] Maniac> That's just what I had to think off when I read TKG's signature.

[14:18] Evangelion-Freak> Yes, but, eh, what do gays have to do with this?

[14:18] Maniac> Friendly homosexual Suomi stay. Just a language game. Ignore me.

[14:18] herc2> where's my wig but hold on am I allowed to adjudicate as my call led to this situation
[14:18] Evangelion-Freak> Okay...
[14:18] AdamTG^DoS> e. Case Presentation:
[14:18] AdamTG^DoS> The Court cannot act on any issue until a citizen of the nation brings forth an
Issue to The Court. Issues to The Court should be posted publicly and must involve a dispute that
the court is empowered to rule upon.
[14:18] Maniac> use of horrendously bad humour while on duty...
[14:19] * Evangelion-Freak reaches for his wig and gavel *
[14:19] Evangelion-Freak> citizen of the nation == anyone of you guys
[14:19] Maniac> Err. Please make me the citizen that brings forward the issue. But does that mean I
have to make the entire argumentation myself?
[14:19] AdamTG^DoS> I'm uncertain whether this falls under our jurisdiction, after reading the
Constitution... I could present the case to the Court as a member of the public, but then I would
have to recuse myself from the case due to conflict of interest.
[14:20] Evangelion-Freak>

[14:20] GT^Commish> This isn't a dispute.
[14:20] Evangelion-Freak> But do you need to take a specific stance to the matter?
[14:20] AdamTG^DoS> Not necessarily. I think it's within our jurisdiction to open the floor to
public comment.
[14:20] GT^Commish> It's a question of constiutionality.
[14:20] Maniac> Right!
[14:20] Evangelion-Freak> I mean, this is a question of interpreting the constitution by the court
[14:20] Maniac> Ther are legal arguments for each side.
[14:21] Evangelion-Freak> Therefore, Adam should have no bias to the matter
[14:21] Evangelion-Freak> (besides, who else would do it?=
[14:21] Evangelion-Freak> )
[14:21] Evangelion-Freak> Exactly, Maniac

[14:21] herc2> so I won't be blamed and publically humiliated and flogged
[14:21] AdamTG^DoS> The constitution says that we can't act on an issue -- not necessarily a case --
unless a member of the public brings it up.
[14:21] GT^Commish> Well, several members of the public have brought it up.
[14:21] Maniac> Yeah, call us the public prosecutor
[14:21] GT^Commish> Me and Maniac, for starters.
[14:21] Evangelion-Freak> Indeed.
[14:22] AdamTG^DoS> If you're doing so, Maniac, I'll note that in my post. But that doesn't mean you
have to file all the arguments. We can open the floor to the public.
[14:22] AdamTG^DoS> *nod* Makes sense.
[14:22] Evangelion-Freak> Yes. You aren't obligated to anything by bringing it up, IMO
[14:22] GT^Commish> Sounds good to me.
[14:22] AdamTG^DoS> I'll note you both as bringing the matter up.
[14:23] Maniac> What's the time limit for giving the argumentation?? (Should get up to date for that
part of the constitution as well)
[14:23] Maniac> I guess we should organize a public discussion thread, and then GT and me, as public
prosecutors or so, have to give a summary of the argumentation in the court thread.
[14:24] Maniac> Something like that?
[14:24] Maniac>

[14:24] AdamTG^DoS> No time limit specified in the Constitution. I believe it's set by the Senior
Justice, and we need three members of the Court to appoint one.
[14:24] herc2> Sssh can't you hear the crowds singing outside . 'All we are saying is give p sound
fades '
[14:24] * GT^Commish is examining the constiution to see if it says anything about this.
[14:24] AdamTG^DoS> I'll send PMs to the other Justices, in order to ensure we can get three to hear
the case.
[14:24] Evangelion-Freak> Hmm... three court members...
[14:25] * Evangelion-Freak looks around *
[14:25] Evangelion-Freak> Adam, herc, me?
[14:25] Maniac> MWIA and who are the others again?

[14:25] Evangelion-Freak> MWIA isn't a judge

[14:25] Maniac> ah
[14:25] GT^Commish> Drogue is.
[14:25] herc2> Pande who's going off
[14:25] Evangelion-Freak> Drogue, and, and some fifth person whose name escapes me
[14:26] Evangelion-Freak> Ah, yes, pan
[14:26] GT^Commish> No, Cedayon.
[14:26] Maniac> Anyway, can we assume the new Justices are already seated btw???

[14:26] Evangelion-Freak> Oh
[14:26] herc2> Yes cey
[14:26] GT^Commish> Pan didn't run for anything this term.
[14:26] Evangelion-Freak> I've never left my chair

[14:27] Maniac> The justice poll is already closed I just noticed.
[14:27] herc2> can we have a ruling by next turnchat do you think
[14:27] GT^Commish> Anyway, shall I post the turn report now?
[14:27] Evangelion-Freak> I only got 95 percent of votes, damn MWIA wanted to abstain from the entire
election

[14:27] * Maniac goes removing the spoilers in the term VII gov thread
[14:27] Maniac>

[14:29] Maniac> Oh btw, GT, could you please untop all election threads, except the DPO one, and also
Term VI gov and such?
[14:29] Evangelion-Freak> I think I'm gonna wander off to bed. 5:13 in the morning here *_*
[14:29] herc2> goodnight
[14:29] Maniac> good morning
[14:30] herc2> I am away too
[14:30] Evangelion-Freak> good night peeps (Maniac

)
[14:30] herc2> morning all
[14:30] * herc2 has quit IRC (Quit: )
[14:30] Maniac> see ya all.

[14:30] * Maniac has left #smacdg
[14:31] * Evangelion-Freak has left #smacdg (

)
End of #smacdg buffer Sun Mar 02 14:34:11 2003

GeneralTacticus · March 1, 2003, 23:35

Here are the two save files.

Cedayon · March 1, 2003, 23:57

looks like the chatlog was kinda double posted... and it appears that my assumption that I wouldn't actually be *doing* anything as justice was wrong...

GeneralTacticus · March 2, 2003, 00:14

Quote:

looks like the chatlog was kinda double posted...

Eh? Where?

DeathByTheSword · March 2, 2003, 08:16

w00t something for the court!

Maniac · March 2, 2003, 10:32

I detected some problems concerning the former upgrades.
Commissioner and DIA, please pay close attention to them in the next turnchat:

The "Pelagiformers" has as design 0-1-4*2 clean while it should have been 0-1-4*2 clean/super. Perhaps you could upgrade them to that model next turn. Personally I wouldn't upgrade them to that "Super Fusion Sea Formers Mk2" model (where did that come from anyway?

), as upgrading to that model with plasma armour costs 20 ec than to a armourless model.

There are two "aquaformers" models. One is obsolete and has as stats 0-1-6*2 super/clean, while the other active "aquaformers" has as stats 0-1-6*2 clean. Please don't make the mistake of upgrading the current "Super fusion cruiser formers" to that 0-1-6*2 clean aquaformer model. Instead delete the current active aquaformer, and reactivate the obsolete correct super/clean aquaformer. Then they can be upgraded.

There are two "Revised Formers" models. One with fission and one with fusion reactor. These have no difference in performance except that the fusion model costs 20 minerals more than the fission model. Unfortunately there are already two of the fusion models, and six others in production. I would really recommend switching to the fission revised former model and making the fusion type obsolete.

Ah yes, there are also two "Chiroformers" models. One with super/clean, to which fortunately all rover formers have been upgraded, and then another clean non-super "Chiroformers" model. This could cause confusion. Bettter is to retire the non-super "Chiroformers" model.

GeneralTacticus · March 3, 2003, 02:27

Yes, I forgot to add the 'super' bit in when I was creating them, and the results were a bit chaotic. That should be fixed in the next chat (which, btw, I won't be able to run, as I won't be here, so you'll have to deal with it).

Maniac · March 3, 2003, 08:17

/me starts to panic...

Method · March 3, 2003, 17:50

Quote:

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
[09:43] Maniac-AT> Indeed: impeach the DIA!

why are you guys always plotting against me when i'm not there?

Maniac · March 3, 2003, 20:01

Because you're evil.

It must look strange indeed when you don't know what's said beforehand. It was just a general discussion about the DIA powers. Many felt the veto was too powerful, and there had to be a possibility to veto the veto. Some proposed that the AT and Commish combined should be able to override the DIA veto, while I argued against that. I said that if the DIA abused his powers, he could simply be impeached, and there was no need for further rules. Please read:

Quote:

[23:17] (AdamTG^DoS) I considered running for Governor of Centralis after Archaic stated he'd be interested in building Genejack Factories -- but I know I simply don't have the time.
[23:17] (Evangelion-Freak) Yeah. For that kind of cases, there should be some sort of a "citizen veto" option, where a group of people can veto a build queue...?
[23:17] (GT^Commish) Well, probably anyone who wanted to do that would be bananaed at the next election.
[23:17] (Evangelion-Freak) Yeah.
[23:17] (GT^Commish) And the DIa is allwoed to veto it.
[23:17] (Evangelion-Freak) Ah, good.
[23:18] (Evangelion-Freak) I haven't studied the constitution lately, so bear with me if I throw stuff already implemented.

[23:18] (GT^Commish) Anyway, Archaic said he was itnerested in us building them, not that he intended to build them.
[23:18] (Voltaire) Isn't in unconstitutional???
[23:18] (Evangelion-Freak) Yes... GJ factories is a good example of practicality vs. ideology.
[23:18] (GT^Commish) Especially when he brought the subject up and realized there was no way he would persuade anyone to agree.
Session Close: Sat Mar 01 23:18:43 2003

Session Start: Sat Mar 01 23:20:14 2003
Session Ident: #smacdg
[23:20] * Now talking in #smacdg
[23:20] * Topic is 'ACDG Turnchat Channel'
[23:20] * Set by TKG on Thu Jan 01 01:00:00
[23:20] (AdamTG^DoS) I'm wrong -- I checked the constitution, and it was included. The DIA has the right to veto any order of a governor.
[23:21] (Evangelion-Freak) I really think the vote should be allocated to several people. It's just too powerful to be in the hands of one person.
[23:21] (Evangelion-Freak) vote=veto
[23:21] (AdamTG^DoS) "That idea" meant the idea for the DIA to veto any build. Sorry for the ambiguity.
[23:21] (Voltaire) That [DIA veto power] could be a point of contention between parties.
[23:22] (AdamTG^DoS) 2/3 of the DIA/Commish/Alpha Talent?
[23:22] (Evangelion-Freak) Adam: yes, that sounds better
[23:22] (GT^Commish) That might be a good idea.
[23:22] (GT^Commish) Anyoen want to propose an amendment?
[23:22] (AdamTG^DoS) Or maybe requiring the DIA, but together with either the Commish or Alpha Talent?
[23:22] * Evangelion-Freak raises hand *
[23:22] (Evangelion-Freak) You turnchat here, I'll type it down

[23:23] (Maniac-AT) Against.
[23:23] (Evangelion-Freak) Hmm?
[23:23] (Evangelion-Freak) So you think the DIA should have the power to completely block any governor's build orders?
[23:23] (Maniac-AT) The point of directors is to concentrate power, so we don't need to council everyone for every decision, which could take hours/days.
[23:24] (Evangelion-Freak) Yes, but a veto is a very, very drastic measure.
[23:24] (Maniac-AT) What if the AT or Commish aren't available but a decision needs to be taken quickly?
[23:24] (AdamTG^DoS) Well, it is true that no DIA so far has misused the power.
[23:24] (Evangelion-Freak) Adam: yet.
[23:24] (Voltaire) The DIA, as it stands, is too powerful, veto power excluded. I think the ability to basically dictate faction spending alone is something that needs to be dealt with.
[23:24] (Maniac-AT) He has only a veto, he cannot tell the directors what to do.
[23:24] * AdamTG^DoS glosses over the rumors about TKG's secret Internal Affairs complexes.
[23:25] (Maniac-AT) directors -) governors
[23:25] (Evangelion-Freak) But he can dictate what they build by blocking orders he doesn't like.
[23:25] (Maniac-AT) (I think)
[23:26] (AdamTG^DoS) How's this: The Commissioner and Alpha Talent, acting together, can override a DIA veto. DIA still retains the right to veto, and still must okay expenditures.
[23:26] (Maniac-AT) Well then the governor can propose alternatives ad infinitum. The governors and DIA balance each other out. None can control the other.
[23:26] (Voltaire) No, the DIA can order governors to build what he wants, or technically he can order governors to place into the queues requests form other directories.
[23:26] (Evangelion-Freak) Maniac, yes, he can propose and propose, but the DIA can refrain from vetoing only the choice he wants.
[23:26] (Evangelion-Freak) Adam: That sounds pretty good
[23:27] (Evangelion-Freak) A veto of a veto, so to speak. All I'm looking for is a way to check the DIA's use of power.
[23:27] (Maniac-AT) But the governor can refuse to build the order the DIA wants, so it's a deadlock which can only be resolved by the court.
[23:27] (Evangelion-Freak) Court proceedings take time...
[23:27] (Maniac-AT) So do vetoes of vetoes.
[23:27] (AdamTG^DoS) Alternately, majority vote of the Council of Governors (governors + DIA) can override a veto.
[23:28] (Voltaire) Also the DIA can back up his requests by threatening to cut of funding to the governor.
[23:28] (Evangelion-Freak) But vetos of vetos aren't mandatory. Besides, in your scenario, we have to wait for the build queue to be voted for half a term.
[23:28] (Evangelion-Freak) voted=vetoed
[23:28] (Evangelion-Freak)

[23:29] (Maniac-AT) Volt: that would get the DIA banana'd next term. TEF: the threat of having to stop the game should be enough to come to a compromise.
[23:29] (Evangelion-Freak) In next term the damage is already done *shrug*
[23:29] (Maniac-AT) Anyway, propose what you want. I just think it will prove unnecessary.
[23:29] (Maniac-AT) Has this game started btw?
[23:30] (Maniac-AT) otherwise I'm back to playing Eu2.
[23:30] (GT^Commish) No.
[23:30] (GT^Commish) Starting now.
[23:30] (Evangelion-Freak) All we are looking for is a way to block the DIA if it's deemed necessary. There was also my proposal of a citizen action that would allow a large portion of the people to veto the DIA.
[23:30] (Evangelion-Freak) That way, we'd kinda "banana" him beforehand. A proactive impeachment sort of thing.
[23:31] (AdamTG^DoS) It's true enough that thje DIA's veto is only a negative. He can't force the Governors to do anything specific which they object to. The most that could happen is for no orders to be okayed, and either the Commissioner plays without orders or the game grinds to a halt.
[23:31] (Maniac-AT) Voilà.
[23:31] (AdamTG^DoS) Well, we do have impeachment for that.
[23:31] (Maniac-AT)

[23:31] (Evangelion-Freak) *shrug*
[23:31] (Evangelion-Freak) Of course all wrongdoings of officials will come back to them in elections, but by then the damage will be done.
[23:31] (Maniac-AT) Indeed: impeach the DIA!

I don't know what was said between 23.18 and 23.20 though. I quit the chat then for a few minutes because I was fed up with their discussion, which already lasted for half an hour, while we hadn't even started playing the game yet.

Method · March 3, 2003, 20:42

thanks maniac

really though, i don't see the DIA abusing his power, because he'd get impeached. i know i didn't (or i don't think i did), and wouldn't, though kass will tell you otherwise.

Maniac · March 3, 2003, 21:42

I already thought Kassiopeia had some second motives with that proposal...