A Step in the Right Direction

David Floyd · March 5, 2003, 19:59

Nineteen states are considering proposals to add video slot machines at racetracks. Twelve are studying whether to introduce or expand casino gambling, and four are debating lotteries.

''There's a new wave of expansion,'' says Steve Rittvo, a gambling industry consultant from New Orleans. ''Gaming provides a strong revenue source, and it's almost a voluntary tax.''

The debates over gambling come as states struggle by June 30 to close almost $26 billion in gaps between planned spending and tax receipts.

The competition among states for gamblers' dollars is fierce. State leaders who watch bettors cross into neighboring states to buy lottery tickets or play slot machines face pressure to adopt or expand gambling.

Some states are seeking profit-sharing arrangements with Native American-owned casinos. Under the federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, such casinos are exempt from state taxes.

Many states see gambling as an economic development tool, Rittvo says.

Gambling at casinos and ''racinos,'' racetracks with casinos, generated revenue of $27.2 billion in 2001. Indian casinos generated another $12.2 billion and state lotteries $17.6 billion.

''The choices in an economic downturn are, do you cut services or do you increase taxes?'' says Frank Fahrenkopf, president and CEO of the American Gaming Association, a trade group for commercial casinos in 11 states.

But opponents of legalized gambling warn that it's no panacea. ''If this was such a good product, why didn't states automatically do this before?'' says the Rev. Tom Grey, executive director of the National Coalition Against Gambling Expansion. ''A lot of the states with budget deficits already have gambling. They're going to expand gambling to get more money. They're acting like gamblers.''

He and other opponents of legalized gambling say gambling addiction costs the nation in lost wages, higher bankruptcy filings and increased crime. A national commission estimated in 1999 that the country has 1.8 million to 2.5 million gambling addicts.

Every state except Utah, Tennessee and Hawaii has some form of legalized gambling. Tennessee is preparing to launch a state lottery to fund education.

But efforts to expand or bring gambling into a state usually meet stiff local opposition. Last year, 15 state legislatures rejected proposals to add slot machines at racetracks.

One of the most intense fights over gambling expansion this year is unfolding in Maryland. Gov. Robert Ehrlich, a Republican, is seeking legislative support for a bill adding 10,500 slot machines at four racetracks. He has called the bill essential to filling a $1.3 billion gap in next year's budget.

Other states where gambling initiatives have momentum:

* Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, a Republican, has indicated that he will seek to add slot machines at six sites unless casino operators in neighboring Connecticut and Rhode Island pay his state $75 million.

* Maine officials say they have certified more than 250,000 voter signatures on petitions, enough to authorize November referendums on two gaming proposals. The measures would authorize an Indian casino and slot machines at two harness racing tracks.

* The Pennsylvania Legislature is considering the proposal of Gov. Edward Rendell, a Democrat, to add slot machines at racetracks.

* In Iowa, the Senate is pondering a bill that would allow racetracks to add video poker and blackjack, roulette and other table games.

As states rush to embrace gambling, Martin Baird, a Phoenix consultant on ways to make it more attractive to the public, cautions: ''Gaming is not the solution to poor tax planning, poor budgeting and the bad economy.''

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Revenue issues aside, this is good from a freedom standpoint - a step in the right direction!

Ben Kenobi · March 5, 2003, 20:10

Quote:

As states rush to embrace gambling, Martin Baird, a Phoenix consultant on ways to make it more attractive to the public, cautions: ''Gaming is not the solution to poor tax planning, poor budgeting and the bad economy.''

Free people by putting them in debt?

How novel.

David Floyd · March 5, 2003, 20:11

Quote:

Free people by putting them in debt?

Remind me, again, what involuntary taxation does?

Oh yeah, the same thing, except that it's involuntary. Unlike gambling.

MRT144 · March 5, 2003, 20:14

david, what happens when there is no one left to play? or do you just rely on humans to be gullible?

SlowwHand · March 5, 2003, 20:15

But, I thought you were against volunteering?

David Floyd · March 5, 2003, 20:16

Quote:

or do you just rely on humans to be gullible?

It's a well established fact that people are stupid. Work in retail for 4+ years, like I have

Flubber · March 5, 2003, 20:17

Quote:

Originally posted by MRT144
david, what happens when there is no one left to play? or do you just rely on humans to be gullible?

Drive to vegas . . . None of that was built by people winning yet they keep on coming.

Unfortunately gambling can often take revenue from people that can ill afford to lose it but I think I am with David Flloyd on this one as we cannot regulate people being stupid with their money

MRT144 · March 5, 2003, 20:18

so now we will have a class of problem gamblers.

SlowwHand · March 5, 2003, 20:18

But seriously.
I've been to a casino one time. Good for the experience, but never again.
It's set up to be, well, a business. A thriving business.
Give me the ponies though, and I'm a happy camper.
Races can be rigged, sure; but that's not the norm.

Peacemaker · March 5, 2003, 20:36

Quote:

Originally posted by MRT144
david, what happens when there is no one left to play? or do you just rely on humans to be gullible?

As long as you offer people the oppertunity to get rich quick no mater the odds people will be gullible enough to throw their money away.

But of course we all know that low income people would never waste most of their money anyways, right.

Skanky Burns · March 5, 2003, 20:37

I agree with Floyd - if its voluntary, I don't really care.

Most people can't afford to lose money gambling, but it is their choice.

SlowwHand · March 5, 2003, 20:40

The scratch-off tickets are the biggest ripoff the State runs.

Sava · March 5, 2003, 21:33

I agree with the idea that gambling should be legal... but Floyd, don't make this sound like your freeing people from slavery.

And taxation is voluntary. If you don't want to pay income taxes, don't work. Or get a cash-only job. If you don't want to pay sales taxes. Don't buy things. If you don't want to pay property taxes, don't own property. Again... taxes are a part of society Floyd, whether you like it or not. You should just accept it or move to some remote location and live off the land... your constant whining about taxes is a waste of the data bits the text is stored in. And IIRC your like 20 right? What taxes do you pay anyhow? I got taxed on some of my investments which lost money due to this sh1tty economy, and you don't see me b*tching. SO STOP!

SlowwHand · March 5, 2003, 21:37

Sava been taking reasoning pills today.

Sava · March 5, 2003, 21:38

Among other things!

Berzerker · March 5, 2003, 21:42

Quote:

Give me the ponies though, and I'm a happy camper.
Races can be rigged, sure; but that's not the norm.

I saw a race rigged at Los Alamitos in Orange County, S Cal, part owned by Doc Severinson of Johnny Cash fame. They rigged the photo finish so the winner didn't even appear in the photo. Why? Because it was an exacta where you pick the 1 and 2 horse. A lot of people, including me, correctly picked the 1 and 2 horses, but since the winner was more than a length ahead, the photo showed the #2 and #3 horses as if they were the 1 and 2 horses. It was so blatant a roar from the stadium went up and I stopped going to horse races.

DuncanK · March 5, 2003, 21:48

I disagree. Gambling addiction is a serious illness. It should be illegal in all 50 states.

SlowwHand · March 5, 2003, 21:53

More controls? Socialist?

Berz, that's A race.
I can't speak for California, but God help the "fixers", were that to happen in Texas.

Peacemaker · March 5, 2003, 22:14

Quote:

Originally posted by DuncanK
I disagree. Gambling addiction is a serious illness. It should be illegal in all 50 states.

If we ban everything that is adictive then we should also ban:

Booze
Smokes
Video games
Working
Food
sex

We can all just sit in a padded room all by ourselves and do nothing. But what if someone becomes adicted to this?

SlowwHand · March 5, 2003, 22:23

How about we stop doing all that's "bad" for us?
Then we can live until 80 instead of 75, but the quality sucks.
Screw that. Give me 75.

MRT144 · March 6, 2003, 03:16

ill never cut out the salami cheddar mustard and sourdough sandwiches that are a staple in my diet

Ben Kenobi · March 6, 2003, 03:54

Booze
Smokes
Video games
Working
Food
sex

All things in moderation, none in excess. Same with gambling. However, why should the state get involved with gambling? Why not leave this to private enterprise?

Sava:

Not a word from DFloyd.

Impressive.

MRT144 · March 6, 2003, 04:16

obiwan, why collect taxes from business when you could just shoot past that and be a direct collector?

Dis · March 6, 2003, 04:30

I love gaming.

Less money for people like me to pay taxes for because I'm very disciplines and rarely play slot machines.

I do play blackjack at the tables. But I usually don't lose any money at that usually.

David Floyd · March 6, 2003, 04:56

Quote:

And taxation is voluntary. If you don't want to pay income taxes, don't work.

Um, this doesn't mean income taxes are voluntary. This is sort of like passing a law prohibing free speech, then saying that following the law is voluntary, because you can always leave the country

Quote:

Or get a cash-only job.

I could still get arrested and/or fined.

Quote:

If you don't want to pay sales taxes. Don't buy things.

See the above example. Sales taxes aren't voluntary.

Quote:

If you don't want to pay property taxes, don't own property.

See above.

Quote:

Again... taxes are a part of society Floyd, whether you like it or not. You should just accept it or move to some remote location and live off the land...

A similar argument would read "Slavery is a fact of life, like it or not. Accept it or move to Great Britain."

That is, you aren't making an argument at all, you are just stating a fact. Duh, of course taxation is a fact in the US, I'm not disputing THAT.

Quote:

What taxes do you pay anyhow?

Payroll taxes, Social Security taxes, and the like. The amount isn't relevant.

[quote]I got taxed on some of my investments which lost money due to this sh1tty economy, and you don't see me b*tching.[quote]

Hey, if you don't mind if people steal from you, you won't mind if I get in on some of that, right?