monsoon jungle, removing it.

yavoon · March 6, 2003, 18:06

hi does anyone here know a way to remove the monsoon jungle from SMAC. I would like it to not appear in randomly created maps.

or if not remove a way to neuter it. I look in alpha.txt but nothing appears to control it. simply removing it from the list at the bottom only messes up the names. it doesn't do nething about it still bein there.

if u could help that'd be great, k thanks!

Mongoose · March 6, 2003, 20:57

Play on an arid world. The Jungle, if there at all, will be small. 'Course, you handicapp the AI rather signigicantly by playing on arid worlds, since it doesn't terraform well.

As far as having the map generated without it, as a stand alone parameter...I know no way to do that.

yavoon · March 6, 2003, 21:43

thanks, bummer though. really an annoying aspect to a game.(the monsoon)

Ned · March 6, 2003, 22:12

Quote:

Originally posted by yavoon
thanks, bummer though. really an annoying aspect to a game.(the monsoon)

Yavoon, why is it annoying? The AI faction that gets it really does well, making the game tough. I think there is a general opinion here that the AI needs all the help it can get to give you a good game.

Googlie · March 7, 2003, 00:33

You need to remove it from the alpha.txt and alphax.txt as well as the concepts.txt and conceptsx.txt (it's #39 in the concepts list for both)

That way the $LINK should still refer to the appropriate landmark

yavoon · March 7, 2003, 01:25

its silly when I get it. and if I see it newhere near me its silly to go and attack it and take it.

its just not a very well conceived landmark. and it has far too large an impact on the game for one randomnly seeded thing.

googlie u sayin if I remove it from both it will no longer exist? well neways I will try that now!

yavoon · March 7, 2003, 01:58

nope doesn't work.

Jac de Molay · March 7, 2003, 10:28

Quote:

Yavoon, why is it annoying? The AI faction that gets it really does well, making the game tough. I think there is a general opinion here that the AI needs all the help it can get to give you a good game.

I agree. One of the toughest AI games I had was with Deirdre planted on a forested jungle.

I love when I land on it too, A 4-nut forest with hybrid forest is

Static Universe · March 7, 2003, 18:14

The jungle adds fun to the game by making at least one AI competitive.

On the other hand, it's even funner taking it away.

yavoon · March 7, 2003, 18:35

it'd be much more sane to simply give all the computers an advantage in the faction.txt. than it is to be like "well atleast one will be better."

seems bizzarre that u can't do anything about hte landmarks. especially considering how changable everything else is.

Alinestra Covelia · March 7, 2003, 18:38

I don't know if this is useful or not, but if you alter the ocean levels, or if you terraform the jungle UP or DOWN, then the nutrient bonus vanishes forever.

Static Universe · March 7, 2003, 20:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
I don't know if this is useful or not, but if you alter the ocean levels, or if you terraform the jungle UP or DOWN, then the nutrient bonus vanishes forever.

Doesn't the same thing happen with the "crater" and "ridge" values?

gwillybj · March 8, 2003, 01:59

You can't prevent the Monsoon Jungle from appearing on random maps, but you can remove the Monsoon Jungle from a finished map if you go into the Scenario Editor. There are two ways to do it. Both will make the entire map visible, so you'll have to resist the temptation to look real close if you prefer to be surprised.

Method 1, which also allows you to see where the other factions start (if you look too close) and scores the game as cheated:
If your world is generated by starting a new game and choosing either Random Map or Customize Random Map, immediately go into the Scenario Editor {Ctrl+K} when your first turn starts, before doing anything else.
Zoom out by pressing {X} until you can see the dark green patch identifying the Jungle. Right-Click near its center and click {Move cursor to here}, then press {Shift+X} to zoom in. Left-Click once on the square above the words to move the cursor there. Click {Menu} {Edit Map} {Remove Natural Landmark} {Monsoon Jungle} {OK} and wait a few seconds. Bye-bye, Jungle!
Exit the Scenario Editor {Ctrl+K} and press {V} once to center the view on your landing pod.

Method 2, which only makes the entire map visible:
If you create your worlds in the Scenario Editor outside a game, simply follow the steps above when the generator finishes creating the map, starting at "Zoom out".

Note: There is an undocumented natural landmark that the random map generator never, ever puts on a map.
It is Nessus Canyon, which was added in Version 3 or 4. It is like an inverted Pholus Ridge. Instead of a north-south raised area, you get a north-south gash. The canyon floor is at the lowest land elevation, 10-999m. The squares will be labelled "Canyon" in the terrain key. They will be either Flat or Rolling, and all will have a +1Mineral bonus which you can verify in the terrain key. If a river happens to be nearby, it might flow into and/or through the canyon.

If you want to, you could put the Canyon in where you removed the Jungle. After removing the Jungle, click {Menu} {Edit Map} {Place Natural Landmark} {Nessus Canyon} {OK} and wait a few seconds. Voila! Canyon!

Of course, you don't have to remove another landmark to include Nessus Canyon. It can be added along with all the others. I like to drop it in a highland plain so it looks like The Grand Canyon.

Jeremy Buloch · March 8, 2003, 05:21

I prefer Monsoon Jungles, they give me loads of resources and good benefits also its a good challenge like Ned said if the Computer controlled players were to have such a benefit.

-J.B.-

yavoon · March 8, 2003, 14:05

thanks gwill. that is helpful. even if not what I hoped for.

and for jeremy. the reason I want it removed is because it gives loads of resources. u silly imp. u can make ur game harder in much more reliable ways than the luck of one seeded monsoon jungle.

Xian · March 8, 2003, 15:50

Quote:

Originally posted by yavoon
thanks, bummer though. really an annoying aspect to a game.(the monsoon)

??? The monsoon jungle is one of my favorite aspects of the game? I fi get it im happy and if the AI gets it it makes the game a real challenge - win win situation.

Jeremy Buloch · March 8, 2003, 20:27

Yes exactly what "Xian" says, I think its a win win situation, if I get the monsoon jungle then I'm happy if not then its a challenge, If its not mine then its worth fighting for. hehehe I think it sparks a conflict.

-J.B.-

BustaMike · March 8, 2003, 21:01

Yes, the monsoon jungle can help make the AI much more powerful than its normal pathetic self, but don't forget that often times the jungle totally screws the AI also. On many different occasions I have seen the AI purposely not bother building any bases in an attempt to make it to the monsoon jungle. Usually, the AI hasn't even explored the part of the map with the jungle (but it seems to know anyway). Doing this essentially screws the AI from the very beginning of the game because by the time a base is built they're turns behind, or they have 1 base where they started and a second 20 or 30 spaces away in the jungle. The pirates are notorious for this. An AI pirate will ALWAYS head toward the jungle with its second colony pod even if the territory in the jungle is already taken (preventing the AI from using the squares it took so long to get to in the first place). None of this is the jungle's fault really, it's just that the AI is stupid.

Still, I think it should definately stay in.

yavoon · March 8, 2003, 21:29

I'm not sure why this has turned into a defend the jungle thread. but if u guys are playing a game of smac wher eonly 1 out of 6 ai's are "maybe" competitive.

then obviously we don't have the same mentality towards the game.

BustaMike · March 8, 2003, 22:29

Single player is never competitive, IMO.

yavoon · March 8, 2003, 23:02

I'm pretty confident u could produce competitive situations in single player. for ne skill level. it just depends on whether u want to or not.

Jeremy Buloch · March 9, 2003, 00:48

Quote:

I'm not sure why this has turned into a defend the jungle thread.

Why not defend it?

Ok to the point...

You found out how to remove it so I believe this question is about answered.
Thanks,
-J.B.-