disaster at amazon.com

[PDifolco]

60 people at Amazon, 50 don't like
100 people at the poll just here, (rather a fanboy base !) more than 50 don't like ...
I think there's a problem ....

[booje]

Errr...guys the developers didn't even WANT to call it MOO3. Infrogrames told them to use it for marketing purposes.

[darcy]

UGO: When did you realize Quicksilver would be able to get the rights to and develop the next in the Master of Orion series? How did you feel when it was a fait accompli?

William C. Fisher: Actually, that was the easiest part of the process. I literally bumped into a producer from MicroProse, Michael Mancuso, at E3 in June of 1999. My business development manager stopped to introduce us and then ran off to a meeting. Mike and I talked for a while, realized that we had a lot in common, and the next thing I knew he was flying down to visit us. A few weeks later, they offered us four possible titles, including both Master of Magic and Master of Orion. Since Master of Magic was being done in-house at that time, we were perfectly happy to choose MOO3.

Needless to say, we were thrilled at the opportunity to update a franchise like this, and we immediately launched a vigorous design effort.

http://www.ugo.com/channels/games/fe.../interview.asp

[Ray K]

Originally posted by booje
Errr...guys the developers didn't even WANT to call it MOO3. Infrogrames told them to use it for marketing purposes.

Errr... where did you hear that?

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by PDifolco
60 people at Amazon, 50 don't like
100 people at the poll just here, (rather a fanboy base !) more than 50 don't like ...
I think there's a problem ....

We know that it isn't to everyone's taste but 200 votes out of the tens of thousands of units shipped simply isn't a large enough sample to get any kind of serious feeling for the popularity of the game.

The people most likely to vote on all these websites are those who feel bitterly let down so post a minimum score and those who feel obliged to retaliate by voting high. MOO3 isn't deserving of either a minimum or maximum score. Personally I'm not going to vote for it anywhere until the patch/es arrive.

[vee4473]

Originally posted by booje
Errr...guys the developers didn't even WANT to call it MOO3. Infrogrames told them to use it for marketing purposes.

Now that's an interesting comment.




Please explain....

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Grumbold
We know that it isn't to everyone's taste but 200 votes out of the tens of thousands of units shipped simply isn't a large enough sample to get any kind of serious feeling for the popularity of the game.

Are you familiar with the concept of statistical sampling? 200 can certainly by a very relevant sampling.

The people most likely to vote on all these websites are those who feel bitterly let down so post a minimum score and those who feel obliged to retaliate by voting high. MOO3 isn't deserving of either a minimum or maximum score. Personally I'm not going to vote for it anywhere until the patch/es arrive.

This is very true; the amazon ratings could be a biased sample. However this would mean that other games are also skewed negatively for the same reasons...

Fortunately, this is very easy to check. Here are the 10 most recent amazon ratings for new games off the top of my head:

MOO3: 4321112112 = avg 1.8
NWN: 124155555 = avg 3.3
IcewindDale2: 5235525355 = avg 4.0
DungeonSiege: 5545312345 = avg 3.7
WC3: 4555555544 = avg 4.7

I think this disproves your disgruntled gamer theory.

[Arnelos]

NWN nights and certainly Dungeon Siege deserved far worse and WC3 deserved far better...

Oh well...

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Arnelos
NWN nights and certainly Dungeon Siege deserved far worse and WC3 deserved far better...

Oh well...

I just grabbed the 10 most recent votes (for speed). I didn't even look at the overall rating. I was surprised to see 1's for NWN, myself.

[Crostoneman]

I think there some trolls with multiple accounts that blast the game as much as they can. I found one on the Gamespy MoO3 player review and there were around 10 first time posters, all with the same spelling mistakes.

[Ianpolaris]

Crostoneman,

1. That could be true of any game.

2. Those that are rabidly "pro" Moo III could be doing the same thing.

My point is that your explaination for the low numbers seems a trifle far fetched. It might have some impact down (or up! see my second point), but I don't think it is a good overall explaination. A better one, IMHO, is that Moo III as written is sadly substandard (putting it kindly).

-Polaris

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Ray K
I would especially like to thank QuickSilver for completely screwing up one of the greatest name brands in the PC game history.

Possibly true but still a bit harsh.

[CharlesBHoff]

I like this game as it is realy than groundbreaking game which have some teeching problens. When the first personal
computer came out there some teeching problen with the hardware and operation system. I than talking about the Apple computer (not the MAC but the first they release to the public).

[Kc7mxo]

whats wrong with NWN? I mean besides the lack of cloaks, robes, an interesting single player storyline. . .

oh. forget it.

i still liked it though. . . it let me be a dwarf with a gigantic ax, which is about all i ask from a game.

[moomin]

I'd be very interested in knowing how Moo3 sales develop. Being the principal gamer of my social group, I have personally prevented at least five people from buying this turkey, and I hear similar stories elsewhere.

I put in my hours, I tried, but nothing can make Moo3 fun for me - unless, of course, they release a patch that amounts to a new game. Given how they lied to us about the developement project - honest, we're sitting on the game to fix the last teeny-weeny bugs, because we want it to be perfect: yeah right! - I guess I could say I have absolutely no confidence in the QS or their 25 selected yes men - I guess non of these guys actually noticed the AI doesn't fight back?

[Vince278]

Your perceptions mirror my own. I'd hate to be in a position to actually defend the beta testers but I heard they found what we found but were being suppressed by QS so they can focus only on what bugs they were interested in (MP crashes, etc.). Many of the testers are people like us. It is interesting to note their silence however. Don't know if the non-disclosure statements may have something to do with that. I would think they would be released from that after the game is out.

:Insert favorite Smilie here. Too tired to think of one right now.:

[ChaotikVisions]

"The principal gamer of my social group..." I gotta remember that line. But anyway, if a game isn't fun for you don't play. Its just as simple as that. And the game itself has been stable, no crashing i've found, no conflcits. Only thing i've seen has been that DirectX Sufrace error, which comes about them not supporting alt+tab. Also, QS has said they toned down AI for release, given that theres been success in making the AI more aggressive just by text editing the spreadsheet files i'm inclined to believe them. The only problem really encountered was even with the text editing they don't launch many ground invasions, which is probably something in the code QS has to change. Be nice if they would include it to be modable by players though, so people can make killer AIs once patch is out.

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by moomin
I'd be very interested in knowing how Moo3 sales develop. Being the principal gamer of my social group, I have personally prevented at least five people from buying this turkey, and I hear similar stories elsewhere.

I put in my hours, I tried, but nothing can make Moo3 fun for me - unless, of course, they release a patch that amounts to a new game. Given how they lied to us about the developement project - honest, we're sitting on the game to fix the last teeny-weeny bugs, because we want it to be perfect: yeah right! - I guess I could say I have absolutely no confidence in the QS or their 25 selected yes men - I guess non of these guys actually noticed the AI doesn't fight back?

I see you are very bias. First you may not like the game personal but you have no right to tell other people not to buy it.

[duodecimal]

No right to tell others not to buy it? I've advised others to wait, preventing purchases as well. I'm not pleased with myself, buying it the day of release instead of learning from the last few times I let pre-release excitement take me.

We should be gratefull indeed that it was delayed so long - I can only imagine how much worse word on the street would be had they let it go gold in November. Just imagine: An extra half-year refined it to what's being played now.

The potential is there. It's too much work for most people - including me - to find it in the game's current condition. I already have a full time job with databases and spreadsheets, and other hobbies as well.

After a week of playing I still don't understand what I'm doing, and I do not have "one more turn" syndrome. I have not lost track of time playing this game. Nothing that's happened has felt rewarding.

If the patches make the game worth my time, then I'll recommend it to others. As it is now, it deserves the 1 or 2 stars out of 5.

And now for some humor - here's a reprint of alternative titles taken (and not credited) from the IG forum. It's hilarious.

Voyeur of Orion
Galactic Bureaucrat
Byzantine Galaxy
EGA Fighters
Beat the Clock
Cease Your Actions!
Master of the Turn Button
DIY Empire Management
Sensei Orion 3: Senate Victory Surprise!
To Serve Klackon
Accountant's Galactica
Master of Refunds
Space Bug
MOO3: Dude, Where's My Jewel Case?
Clerk of the Orion Sector
Master of Watching-Tiny-Dots-on-a-Combat-Map
Not Master of Your Domain
Galactic Insubordination Simulator
Bob in Accounting: 14022 GC
Warmest Congratulations: Chinese-to-English Diplomatic Success in American Programming
Troopship: Armada
Starship Scrapfest
Spreadsheet of Orion
Middle Manager of Orion
Sim Betatest
DirectX Roulette
Troopship Accumulator
Quicken 3000 Empire
Excel Wars
Plan 9 from Infogrames
The Rise and Fall of the Third MOO
Dante's MOOferno
Troopship Tycoon
MOO3: AI {deleted by Rantz}
MOO3: Dude, Where's My Refund?
Obsolete Fleet Commander
Alice in Polygon-Free Zone
QuickSilver Software Alarm Clock Pro v3.0
CPA Final Exam
Techs and Objects of Unknown Purpose Accumulator
Clearly a Budget (Lots of Numbers in it)
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Turn Button

As to you thinking that he had 'no right' to advise others that the game is in horrible condition for retail and should not buy it yet, I'll kindly invite you re-think your position.

[Chronus]

but you have no right to tell other people not to buy it.

Oh for crying out loud. And where, pray tell, did you discover this?

I trust that he was simply giving his opinion and his friends probably appreciate his advice.

What next . . . jail time for giving an opinion? Sheesh.

[Infidel]

Originally posted by duodecimal


After a week of playing I still don't understand what I'm doing,

Good lord, people. It ain't that hard.

What do you do at your job? Sweep floors?

Arguments against graphics, lack of feedback, wimped out AI, etc., are all valid complaints. That adult human beings can fail to understand what they are doing in the game after a week of play forces me to wonder about their life competancy...

-infidel

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by Chronus

Oh for crying out loud. And where, pray tell, did you discover this?

I trust that he was simply giving his opinion and his friends probably appreciate his advice.

What next . . . jail time for giving an opinion? Sheesh.

Opion is one thing tell other not to buy make it sound like he is commanding then not to buy it is than other thing. I did warn some people there were afew game that where release that would when you uninstall then remove half of your windows system file so you would have to do than full
install of windows the people I told this to use they computer to run than home bussien also. Since the company that relese these game make than patch that correct this problen.

[duodecimal]

Infidel proclaims:

Good lord, people. It ain't that hard.

What do you do at your job? Sweep floors?

That adult human beings can fail to understand what they are doing in the game after a week of play forces me to wonder about their life competancy...

Oh, I'm sorry.

So, you know that designating Infrastructure in your Dev Plan has no overlap with either Military or Government emphases... or perhaps Morale? Or you know how many devplans are considered on a rich, yellow-ring well-built up world near the edge of your empire, and which are prioritized besides the three known ones (all planets and the two visibles)? Or the point at which Secondary world becomes a Core world?

Perhaps you can tell when your new weapons are working right by seeing their effects in battle, and which defenses your enemies are using against the technologies you're employing, so you know how to plan your tech/shipyard strategy.

Maybe you know for sure whether or not the AI changing devplans over the course of the planet's development does or does not allow the AI to wipe out old DEAs and put in new ones, or if you need to do some manual pruning?

So... do you know why what you do does what it does, or do you trust to the AI to be doing it right, and plan strategies not knowing if they're optimal or not and just click Next Turn, grinning like a gibbering simp?

Figuring these out, without already having a 9-to-5 job, takes a bit more time than I have.

But, of course, since I don't think MOO3 is perfect I'm either a janitor, an incompetent bumbler, or both (I'm not sure if you're calling janitors imbeciles or people who don't love MOO3 imbeciles).

People complain about lack of feedback. You mention it yourself as a valid complaint. How can you possibly know what you're doing if you don't have adequate feedback?

or, Q.E.D., as you edumacated folk like to say.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by duodecimal
And now for some humor - here's a reprint of alternative titles taken (and not credited) from the IG forum. It's hilarious.

Great to see they have a sense of humour!

[Flash]

Here is an interesting review.
http://www.techtv.com/extendedplay/r...419660,00.html

[peacenik]

Back to the thread topic--- despite the bad reviews, and even worse forum feedback, as of two hours ago MOO3 was #14 on Amazon.com's game sales chart. This can't be pre-orders. It shows how much people want this game. Maybe a good patch will give it some legs despite the awful start.

[vmxa1]

I am glad it is selling as if it does not that will not bode well for another of games down the road.

[Q Classic]

jeebus, that techtv review was harsh.

not that i am deriving much entertainment from moo3, but still...

ah, well. back to moo2/smac(x)/civ3|2 for now, until i give it another shot when the patch arrives.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I am glad it is selling as if it does not that will not bode well for another of games down the road.

Amen.

[krait23]

Well personally I think word of mouth is pretty important. I was the first one who got MoO3 in my community, and everyone was envious when I advertised that.

Regrettably, everyone was similarly disappointed when I pointed out all the flaws. I didn't say outright 'do not buy it' but I pointed out why it didnt meet my expectations. (Yes, we probably DID expect MoO 2,5... so what?)

Roughly 10 people who are great MoO2 fans and more than just casual gamers decided not to buy it on my input. Some got Space Empires IV instead. Thats the one good thing MoO3 did, I never would have discovered that pearl without it.

As for amazon reviews, at amazon.de we got exactly the same thing. Lots of good reviews before release ('reviewing' before release is pretty stupid imo anyway) and 90% 1 and 2 ratings with texts expressing disappointment after release... So I don't think its trolling, its just a fact that many people ARE seriously disappointed with it. And apparently NOT many people like it enough to bother to go and post good reviews...

Btw, that TechTV interview is interesting... Its bashing the game pretty hard, and down at the bottom thers a link... 'Buy it now at amazon.com'...
Anyone else think that funny?

Lata
Krait