The criminalization of opinion in Britain. - Page 6

Sprayber · March 12, 2003, 14:31

I suppose I should stop here since Ming is watching this thread. This thread is for bashing the UK, not for personal amusement.

Arrian · March 12, 2003, 14:32

Paiktis,

If your posts were really intended for serious discussion, you might get some. Spray's responses are in line with the tone of your posts.

People who respond seriously to your trolls (as I did initially) wise up pretty quickly.

So don't act all surprised.

-Arrian

Sprayber · March 12, 2003, 14:37

The real problem is that there are serious issues about what goverments can and cannot do. Cases like Pedallia in the United States do raise a lot of concerns. But when people come on and throw around the worlds oppression and facism too easy, they loose their meaning after awhile. After awhile they sound so much like the fundies they say they oppose.

Arrian · March 12, 2003, 14:40

Well said, Spray.

Hysterical rhetoric usually detracts from, instead of enhancing, one's position.

-Arrian

Bereta_Eder · March 12, 2003, 14:46

hysterical rhetoric or hysterical "law"?

Bereta_Eder · March 12, 2003, 14:49

And if my phrasing doesn't please you is propably because we're not accustomed to such a fascistic (yes) "law" where I come from.

(After we overthrew the you know with whose backing junta of course - during that, it was common).

The fact that Americans liek you make light of this makes me wonder whether you are.

Worthingtons · March 12, 2003, 14:52

Paiktis , Almost everytime i come on Apoyton i see some poor attack from you on the UK. What's the problem?? we're you knocked by a British girl once?? got deported from here and sent to Greece????

The Fact is our Country is better than yours in many ways , we have plenty of Freedom of Speech here , I've made dozens of scathing attacks on Blair on other boards and havent been arrested yet!

. Now go away and vent your silly anger on something else.

DinoDoc · March 12, 2003, 14:53

Quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22
hysterical rhetoric or hysterical "law"?

Most likely both. I'll reserve final judgement until I see the evidence presented at trial. So far the arrest seems as stupid as the plane spotter case.

Bereta_Eder · March 12, 2003, 14:55

Ming?

Rothy's arguments seem to be all about personal attacks?

About the people taking photographs of military airports and their arrest based on the law it is another matter and of course just to anyone with a sence of reason.
But this is about another thread, isn't it?

Bereta_Eder · March 12, 2003, 14:59

and of curse Rothy conviently failed to acknowledge the fact that a Greek student was arrested on his country because his opinions didn't please the brit "gov" and that they based their arrest on the possession of "books".

Yes, you're right I have no reason to talk

As said terrorists have already won in that island west of Europe.

DinoDoc · March 12, 2003, 15:02

I love histrionics as much as the next fellow but don't you have more important things to talk about. The man's trial hasn't even started yet as far as I know. I'm sure that he will get treated as fairly by the UK judiciary as the plane spotters were by the Greek judiciary.

Bereta_Eder · March 12, 2003, 15:03

We know the offence of the people taking photographs of military airports and the pressure of the brit gov to have them released.

What exactly is the crime of the Greek student?

DinoDoc · March 12, 2003, 15:06

Quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22
What exactly is the crime of the Greek student?

Don't know yet. AFAIK, the Crown hasn't released its evidence against the man yet.

Bereta_Eder · March 12, 2003, 15:06

BTW latest news say that the UK "courts" refused him bail.

I didn't think of it at first but maybe Axi's comment about "revenge" holds water.

The sad fact that is their "law" though remains their spite apart.

Ozz · March 12, 2003, 15:08

Well, I'm interested in the outcome of this thread.
Troll or no.

I didn''t find any reports on the BBC about the court hearing which should have been yesterday.

But I suspect it will be yet another vain attempt

to smear the British.

And another heaping helping of humble pie.

for the Greeks.

DinoDoc · March 12, 2003, 15:08

Quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22
BTW latest news say that the UK "courts" refused him bail.

Isn't that typical in terrorism related cases?

Ozz · March 12, 2003, 15:12

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc

Isn't that typical in terrorism related cases?

It would be typical for any foreigner, regardless of the
case.

Bereta_Eder · March 12, 2003, 15:12

Ozz your fanatism for UK is well known and exposes you.

You can't find anything because they also postponed the "case" for 8 April.

I find it interesting that no brit comes forward but only trolls.

DD, what "Terrorism case"? Books?

mactbone · March 12, 2003, 15:13

I was interestede to see what was going on and I found the site where he posted the text that Axi posted.

Link is http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/communi...=11&topic=1855 and he used his own last name. He registered in Oct. and posted once (that post) on Nov. 2, 2002.

So this begs the question - if this is why the Brits arrested him, are they so inept as to take a quarter of a year to do it? There's more to it than Paiktis or Axi know.

Here's the BBC article on the hearing -

Quote:

Greek man denies terror charges

A Greek man who studied at university in the north-east of England has appeared in court on terrorism charges.
Charalumvos Dousemetzis, 25, a former student at Northumbria University in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, appeared before magistrates in Bedlington, Northumberland.

He pleaded not guilty and the case was adjourned until 8 April for a committal hearing.

Dousemetzis, who has lived in Britain for the past eight years, is accused of possessing articles which may be used in connection with the instigation, preparation, or commission of an act of terrorism.

He was arrested at an address in Heaton, Newcastle last month and was charged on March 3 with two offences under section 57 of the Terrorism Act 2000.

In early March 2003 the Greek government complained to the Foreign Office that it had not been informed of the arrest.

Worthingtons · March 12, 2003, 15:14

Paiktis, Is there really anything to discuss in this thread?
did you create the thread to discuss this issue, or to troll more about England? I'll respond to a troll in the way it deserves...

Briefly coming on Topic, What is more important, the opinion of one individual, or the security of the Nation?? he has been arrested on suspision of a very serious crime and we are right not to grant him bail.

I suppose you think it's right that bloody Captain Hook is not in Jail? if he was an anti Greek living in Athens I'm sure it would be a different story.

Bereta_Eder · March 12, 2003, 15:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozz
But I suspect it will be yet another vain attempt

to smear the British.

They seem to be doing a great job by themselves.

Greek justice released the convicted on bail. AFAIK they were foreigners too.

Ozz · March 12, 2003, 15:16

Quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22
Ozz your fanatism for UK is well known and exposes you.

I'm just here to watch you snack back on crow, that is
after you get yer foot out of yer mouth.

Can't wait for the 9th

Bereta_Eder · March 12, 2003, 15:20

your apperreance here is welcomed. You make the UK look more of a fool that it does.

However back to the point.

It is interesting that not even ONE english came forth to condemn this "law".

Which is why I speak about a fundamental want for a democratic injection in british political "culture".

Bereta_Eder · March 12, 2003, 15:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Rothy
Briefly coming on Topic, What is more important, the opinion of one individual, or the security of the Nation??

The freedom of one indivindual to express himself freely and not be persecuted for whathe thinks or says, like in every democracy.

And certaintly having books on you is not a criminal offence in Europe.

I'm amazed that you asked this question. Tells a lot really.

DinoDoc · March 12, 2003, 15:27

Quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22
And certaintly having books on you is not a criminal offence in Europe.

I take it that you haven't been to Germany lately.

Flubber · March 12, 2003, 15:31

Is there a news source for this ?? I didn't see anything on this during a cursory search of a BBC site

Quite simply, in any westen democracy, merely holding unpopular opinions is insufficient for a VALID arrest. It is the manner in which one acts on those opinions and beliefs that MAY be a crime. Here, I have insufficient information to judge whther this particular arrest was valid or not. I somehow doubt that the guy was arrested for things as simple as paiktis claims but it is possible that some police got overzealous.

This danger exists in any state no matter how ideal as long as there are individuals with police powers. So YES in the UK, Canada or Greece, anyone can get arrested by simply pissing off a police officer. Lets say you sxpressed certain opinions about the officers lineage or sexuality etc . Its a wrongful arrest but there it is. Can you be arrested for an opinion ??? Sure.

This is all obvious stuff. The real issue comes when an individual is held and charged with something; in essence the state then is confirming a belief in the validity of that arrest. Only then do you have a good idea of the evidence against them. heck, lots of people get arrested so that can't run or interfere while the police try to gather more evidence. So the guy got arrested . . . so what ???

I would only worry about the state of civil liberties in the UK if

1. there is actual confirmation of the evidence against him and it turns out to be as scanty as portrayed on this thread and

2. we know the precise charges that the state is pursuing

For now , we are commenting on third hand infrmation provided by a person with some obvious biases. Get the facts . . . until then, any discussion of this individual case is pretty futile

Bereta_Eder · March 12, 2003, 15:35

you antiterrorism "law" has no pararel in Europe in what regards blatant supression of civil liberties.
And that's not my opinion but that of top criminologists.