North Korean Tourism -- A Trip To Kimland

The Mad Monk · March 8, 2003, 06:14

http://1stopkorea.com/nk-trip1.htm

I found this to be a very interesting view of North Korea, from that most unlikely of all viewpoints -- an American tourist! Apparently, in 2002, a number of Americans were permitted to enter to take part in the 'Arirang Festival'. The above link has what one of them took from the experience.

The Mad Monk · March 8, 2003, 06:26

Good gravy. I thought the pictures in the back were painted backdrops...it's actually the crowd...

Asher · March 8, 2003, 06:26

Yeah, I was very impressed by that.

Great site by the way...

ceroomaster · March 8, 2003, 06:57

The North Korean newspaper snippets amused me. Another reminder that it is not good and evil that seperates the USA from it's enemies- but their different viewpoints.

Lancer · March 8, 2003, 07:06

It's like corporate mentality run wild. The huge chain store I work for keeps us in the dark and feeds is you know what. They treat us like crap, but once in a while they'll throw a kind of happy rally thing. All the ass kissers go, I don't. So many people quit going to the things that they started giving away gift certificates to get you to go. The store director can get in trouble if not enough employees participate. If he could do something nasty to the ones who never go I;m sure he would.

The NK people get that on a national scale, but if they don't wear the company slogan, Kims picture, they get dead...or something nasty, whatever. You wear the pin, you go to the rally, you do what you're told. You kiss ass as a way of preserving your life.

Some smart asses complain about freedom..."freedom, yeah right, freedom to do what?"

They piss me off. So do ass kissers.

Great site MM, educational.

The Mad Monk · March 8, 2003, 12:00

I'm interested in knowing if it changes, or reinforces, the reader's perception of North Korea. I, for one, am convinced that this guy is more dangerous than Hussein, if only because of the utter lack of 'bad thinking' apparent within the populace. Any kind of war would not be pretty.

If the cult mindset really is so pronounced, do the South Koreans who want reunification really know what they're getting into? Considering that North Koreans really don't consider the South or Japan to be anything other than puppets of the United States, it seems that it might be a disaster of monumental proportions.

Sprayber · March 8, 2003, 12:05

Great site. If only they put as much work into feeding the people instead of planning these rallies, things might be different.

Oerdin · March 8, 2003, 14:01

The North Korean press appears to be about as objective as the Guardian news paper which all the lefties here at 'poly love to quote.

Nubclear · March 8, 2003, 15:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
The North Korean press appears to be about as objective as the Guardian news paper which all the lefties here at 'poly love to quote.

Actually, I found the similarities in propaganda style between the "Choson" and FOX News very striking

VJ · March 8, 2003, 15:13

Quote:

The NK people get that on a national scale, but if they don't wear the company slogan, Kims picture, they get dead...or something nasty, whatever. You wear the pin, you go to the rally, you do what you're told. You kiss ass as a way of preserving your life.

That's the impression what I (and it seems that the entire planet) have got, too.

Quote:

The North Korean press appears to be about as objective as the Guardian news paper which all the lefties here at 'poly love to quote.

Off-Topic in Off-Topic : Are you claiming that FOX is more objective than Guardian?

DinoDoc · March 8, 2003, 15:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuomerehu
Off-Topic in Off-Topic : Are you claiming that FOX is more objective than Guardian?

It looks like he's claiming that the Guardian isn't objective when it comes to reporting news. Why you chose to deflect that point by bringing something else up is beyond me.

curtsibling · March 8, 2003, 16:08

I think North Korea is not exactly on my my list of holiday destinations.

Not at least until the USA or China removes the dubious regime that is in command!

Sava · March 8, 2003, 16:11

We could use "Ghetto-Delta" airlines...

Check out my link

http://www.starterupsteve.com/swf/ghettodelta.html

Q Classic · March 8, 2003, 16:50

seeing this makes me kinda sad.

this is another wonderfully-written article by a korean-american.
a visit to north korea

besides, monk, you do realize most of the people they talked to are brainwashed victims, no?

once they get a taste of freedom, capitalism, luxury... i'm quite sure they'd come around.

that's not to say unification will be easy. it won't. but.

The Mad Monk · March 8, 2003, 17:26

I'll check it out.

I do understand that what he saw there was the result of...well, brainwashing is a good term for it.

I just wonder if such an obviously thorough case such as this could ever be fully broken. In the case of most cults and cult-like groups, the participants / victims have some frame of outside reference, which deprogramers can use as a lever to bring them back into the 'real world'. In this case, there is no such lever...and there are millions of them.

Q Classic · March 8, 2003, 17:30

22 million, over half of which are probably malnourished. the people in pyongyang, obviously, are more brainwashed... but as far as i can tell, it's populated mostly by loyalists. same with a lot of the tourist destinations.

it's like walking into a rpg, where everyone is programmed to say one thing, and do one thing, knowing nothing else...

makes you want to cry sometimes.

The Mad Monk · March 8, 2003, 17:57

I read the piece. It is a sad situation, I...how do you explain these things, to anyone? So much pain, such desire to reunite lost kin and as a people, yet knowing how much work,and risk, and additional pain, it would take to make it so. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Nubclear · March 8, 2003, 20:03

At least people in Baghdad can talk to foreigners.....N. Koreans, on the other hand, are not so lucky

Down with Kim-Jong Il! Down with North Korea!

Ned · March 8, 2003, 20:43

Kimland and Saddamland. Two examples of socialism at work.

Even if Kim did not torture and kill to maintain his regime, I would vote for a war of liberation of Kimland if asked. It is uterly shocking how extreme the thought control is.

Nubclear · March 8, 2003, 22:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
Kimland and Saddamland. Two examples of socialism at work.

Q Classic · March 8, 2003, 22:52

Ned, it isn't socialism, by any stretch of the definition. It's Stalinism, through and through, at least for NKorea. Iraq isn't communist or socialist at all; i'd put it closer to pure despotism, or fascism.

Even as Kim tortures and kills my brothers and sisters, I still cannot bring myself to want a war of liberation. Such an event would only cause more deaths, more blood, more loss of life on a peninsula whose only real method of fertilization seems to be its own peoples' blood.

Zero · March 8, 2003, 22:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000

Yeah I thought that was pretty bad too. I was just gonna let it slip, but since u brought it up....

Sprayber · March 8, 2003, 23:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
22 million, over half of which are probably malnourished. the people in pyongyang, obviously, are more brainwashed... but as far as i can tell, it's populated mostly by loyalists. same with a lot of the tourist destinations.

it's like walking into a rpg, where everyone is programmed to say one thing, and do one thing, knowing nothing else...

makes you want to cry sometimes.

Do you see a way in which the pennisula can be unified peacefully? I think one of the questions MM asked, and I wondered myself, is how can all those people be brought out of that mindset without some kind of force or total collapse. Don't get me wrong, I don't think force should be used to settle the issue unless they attack first. Is there anyway you see reunification happening peacefully.

Do you think there is a chance of a German style reunification?

ranskaldan · March 8, 2003, 23:26

Economic reform changes any mindset.

IMO, if North Korea begins reforms tomorrow, a German-style reunification can be pulled off in 20 years.

Q Classic · March 8, 2003, 23:41

Quote:

Do you see a way in which the pennisula can be unified peacefully? I think one of the questions MM asked, and I wondered myself, is how can all those people be brought out of that mindset without some kind of force or total collapse. Don't get me wrong, I don't think force should be used to settle the issue unless they attack first. Is there anyway you see reunification happening peacefully.
Do you think there is a chance of a German style reunification?

If by german-style reunification, you mean the collapse and fall of east germany?
that's probably how it'll happen with korea. i doubt that skorea's long term slow-and-steady reunification plan would ever hold, seeing as it has a timeframe of at least 10 years, and presumes a functioning nkorea. i also doubt that nkorea's only reunification, that of invading skorea, would also ever work out.

if it reunifies, it'll be with nkorea's collapse. and skorea will find itself struggling to deal with 22 million new citizens, trying to get them basic necessities, etc., etc., etc.

Sprayber · March 8, 2003, 23:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed

If by german-style reunification, you mean the collapse and fall of east germany?
that's probably how it'll happen with korea. i doubt that skorea's long term slow-and-steady reunification plan would ever hold, seeing as it has a timeframe of at least 10 years, and presumes a functioning nkorea. i also doubt that nkorea's only reunification, that of invading skorea, would also ever work out.

if it reunifies, it'll be with nkorea's collapse. and skorea will find itself struggling to deal with 22 million new citizens, trying to get them basic necessities, etc., etc., etc.

I suppose the SK Goverment would try to prevent most of them from migrating south. I can't even imagine all it would take to rehabilitate the north.

Question remains. Would China accept a Korea run from Seoul. Maybe if US troops were withdrawn they would accept it.

ranskaldan · March 9, 2003, 00:13

China most probably would. We've been looking for rail and road links into SK ports for years.
[As long as NK doesn't flood China with 5 million refugees first, of course.] NK has been a burden, annoyance, and general embarassment to Chinese foreign affairs anyways.

The US troops are a problem. I'd say that China would only accept a neutral unified Korea.

DarthVeda · March 9, 2003, 00:18

North Korea isn't quite so friendly with China as they used to be (like 50 years ago), and a good portion of their standing army is "protecting" them from China.

Oerdin · March 9, 2003, 00:20

The quickest and most peaceful way to reunify Korea is for the communist Chinese stop providing support to the murders of the north. The communists in charge of China won't do this however. They will continue to be the malignant force which enables Kim to oppress his people and the Chinese will look the other why as the north Koreans starve and are brain-washed by a mad dictortor who is bent on conquest and aquiring WoMD.

China should be ashamed of their government and what they have done.

ranskaldan · March 9, 2003, 00:35

Jeez...

And what do you think would happen if North Korea is cut adrift tomorrow? It's going to transform in a magical, miraculous wonderland?

Gimme a break. If North Korea implodes tomorrow it will spill its bloody guts all over China, SK and Japan.

This is what I find disturbing - proposals of ending the North Korean regime through bloody, violent, overnight means. If you want to get Seoul demolished quickly, that's the way to go.