RED FRONT 1.4 Demogame? - Page 5

CivGeneral · March 15, 2003, 00:56

I would like to join. Sign me up.

Shaka Naldur · March 15, 2003, 14:22

naervod,
go to the bestonet section and once there look at the XX century section

greeny · March 15, 2003, 15:17

my take on the question of speed of play:
the 6 front commanders shouldn't have to play in any particular order:
The save is posted by the marshal, then the first front commander to see the post, replies that he will now play, plays his turn, then posts the save, and so on;
on downloading the save you must "sign it out" buy posting that you will play next so others arn't playing with the same savegame. This continues until all Front Comaders have played it once (or an agreed time limit is reached), the Armaments minister could take his turn pretty much anytime in this proccess, while the Economic minister would have to go last; rushbuying all the unit/building requests he has recived and approved of during the course of the turn from Front Cmmanders/ the Armaments minister. Then the Marshal raps it up, taking tempory command of any Front that missed the turn.

This would be a lot quicker than having a set order, as we would be forever waiting around for the next one to show up.

Good idea/Bad idea ?

klesh · March 15, 2003, 16:15

Greeny, your idea is good except for a few things.

The fornt commanders need to have controll over their cities under their command. Only they truly know what is needed in an immediate sense there.

However, we cannot let the commanders run willy nilly spending all the cash that might need to be alloted elsewhere. Only the economics minister knows how much is able to go where. He cannot know in totality what uis required moneywise untill the Armaments Minister adds his total needs in.

So now we have the situation of everyone having to view the file once posted, then making their needs know. Econimics minister then posts what is alloted to each front and the armaments minister. The Marshal advises him as to what front should be priority for getting resupplied etc.

Once posted, the front commanders can leap into play in whatever order they care to as you said. Armamnets can jump in here as well, as long as the commanders know its been DLed and being played.

This is the only complex part with regards to the economy. But really I do not see another way of doing it without front commanders spending too much, or someone ghaving no idea of the military situation (Arm Min) building the wriong units everywhere.

I think perhaps a time limit for after the main file is posted to get your requisitions in might be a way to keep it speedy, else you do not get any $. What other ways can we be sure people will be timely weith their requests?

-FMK.

EZRhino · March 15, 2003, 19:54

From what Ive seen, the way it works in other demo-games is that, since it is the marshal who actually moves the units, each of the various commanders and commisars looks at the save, taken at the beginning of the turn, so that they can see what needs to be done, and then post move orders or whathaveyou in a related turn-orders thread here on the forums. The marshal then acts on them. He is the proxy, if you will,through which the game is played. The marshal can talk with his commanders over Icq while he is actually do the turn, so that they can discuss what is going on in real time. Afterwords, the the marshal posts the Icq log along with some screenshots or whatever, in a new thread, so that us poor drones can know whats going on.

It should be the Front Commander's responsibility to consult with the Minister of Economics and the marshal before hand, to figgure out what they are going to do, especially with regards to speed-buying.

I think we should hash togeather some sort of manifesto so that we can have all this protocol nailed down before the shooting starts. If any of you have ever played axis&allies, I cant remeber the number of times games have been derailed by debates over the specifics of the rules. It needs to be set in stone before the game starts. We can make amends when ever we like later.

H Tower · March 15, 2003, 20:05

Quote:

Originally posted by EZRhino
From what Ive seen, the way it works in other demo-games is that, since it is the marshal who actually moves the units, each of the various commanders and commisars looks at the save, taken at the beginning of the turn, so that they can see what needs to be done, and then post move orders or whathaveyou in a related turn-orders thread here on the forums. The marshal then acts on them. He is the proxy, if you will,through which the game is played. The marshal can talk with his commanders over Icq while he is actually do the turn, so that they can discuss what is going on in real time. Afterwords, the the marshal posts the Icq log along with some screenshots or whatever, in a new thread, so that us poor drones can know whats going on.

that's not how we're playing this game however. the front commanders actually move their own units

klesh · March 15, 2003, 20:06

Quote:

Originally posted by EZRhino
From what Ive seen, the way it works in other demo-games is that, since it is the marshal who actually moves the units, each of the various commanders and commisars looks at the save, taken at the beginning of the turn, so that they can see what needs to be done, and then post move orders or whathaveyou in a related turn-orders thread here on the forums.

Front commanders move their own units and build their own units in the cities they control. The Marshal simply resupplies the fronts with units built in the rear. This is why Front commanders need the ok for funds to be spent before they end their part of the turn. It would be silly to have them go in a second time (after moving units/attacking and establishing their money needs, asking econ commisar, getting the ok) simply to set the build orders for the units they want.

Quote:

It should be the Front Commander's responsibility to consult with the Minister of Economics and the marshal before hand, to figgure out what they are going to do, especially with regards to speed-buying.

Yes, but untill the economics commisar has the requisition reports from the 6 fronts+ armaments and can make a decisions as to how much to allot to whom, no one else can go (for the reason stated above). Therein lies our dilema... the only way it makes sense beureaucratically, is going to be tedious and chances are it'll take days to get the requisition reports from 7 people... those people must not be slow! This is why I suggested a time limit after the initial posting of the save... if you miss out oyu are only automatically given 100 gold or somesuch.

Quote:

I think we should hash togeather some sort of manifesto so that we can have all this protocol all down before the shooting starts.

Sure, thats what's going on here!

-FMK.

EZRhino · March 15, 2003, 20:17

Quote:

Originally posted by H Tower

that's not how we're playing this game however. the front commanders actually move their own units

Sounds ambitious, may prove to be unworkable though. Some units will fall through the cracks.

Quote:

Yes, but untill the economics commisar has the requisition reports from the 6 fronts+ armaments and can make a decisions as to how much to allot to whom, no one else can go...

True, but it goes both ways. If front commanders have to take turns, we will be at the mercy of this system if somebody dies or goes on vacation or delayed by a freak harddrive format something. This happens with pbems. People just dissapear. Things will probably go faster, and with less bureaucracy by just having the commanders and ministers all get to geather on icq make decesions and then have the Marshal move the units.

Edit: Plus this way we can have some cool political intrigue and partisan budget infighting.

Henrik · March 16, 2003, 03:21

As with pbems, if someone dissapear, we'll simply find a replacement.

greeny · March 16, 2003, 08:17

Quote:

Economic minister would have to go last; rushbuying all the unit/building requests he has recived and approved of during the course of the turn from Front Comanders/ the Armaments minister.

FMK: my idea was instead of having the front commanders viewing the save: then reqesting funds, and then being approved or not, and then playing thier turns (which could seriously slow is down), was that while they are playing their turns they note down what they want to rush-buy and in which cities and post this to the Economic minister, who once all turns have been played and all requests made, decides which to approve or not subject to money available, front priorities etc. and then loads up the save and rushbuys the requests on his list that have a tick by them.

klesh · March 16, 2003, 12:16

Right on, Fromt Commmanders could certainly provide a list of thingfs they want bought and where... Just more work for the Armaments Commisar. I figured that he'd be busy enough trying to maximize his other 30+ cities under his direct control. It may save some of the tediousness. What are other people's thoughs on this?

-FMK.

Henrik · March 16, 2003, 12:19

I think it's an excelent idea.

Shaka Naldur · March 16, 2003, 12:45

so the front comanders are actually going to move the units by themselves?
I thought it was going to be the marshall, as in the democracy game. it can make sense but if a turn has to be played for seven people before being played...
man, it is going to take years to finish the game

greeny · March 16, 2003, 13:34

Just to clarify: the Front commanders (and Armaments minister) could set production in their citys and the Economic minister could then rushbuy approved rushbuy requests during his turn. This should not increase the workload of the Armaments minister.

Pevonian · March 16, 2003, 15:36

Sure, it'll take a long time, but if we're commited, it wont take as long as the war itself... will it?

Henrik · March 16, 2003, 15:52

I recon every turn will take about as long as a pbem round, quite managable as the scenario is short by comparison to for instace age of war...

klesh · March 16, 2003, 17:14

Quote:

Originally posted by greeny
Just to clarify: the Front commanders (and Armaments minister) could set production in their citys and the Economic minister could then rushbuy approved rushbuy requests during his turn. This should not increase the workload of the Armaments minister.

Ahhhhh. I didn't catch that the first time 'round. Thats perfect! Lets the Economics Commisar get a full picture of needs before he has to start making decisions. And with overall advice from the Marshal as to which Fronts are most important to hold/ build up at the time, the decision becomes more clear.

I would suggest that Front Commanders denote priority when requisitioning rushbuilding. Just because you have asked for a Red Guard to be built in one city in the Front's rear doesn't mean that the possibly higher priority AA Battery should be overlooked to complete the less expensive Guards.

Of course the Armamenst Commisar needs to utalize incremental rushbuying as well, saves us some dukes.

-FMK.

goape · March 16, 2003, 18:04

sorry wrong post

Colwyn · March 17, 2003, 16:58

This is good idea, if anyone is interest I have done a RF1.4b (lot harder) with some different rule changes and events.

Shaka Naldur · March 17, 2003, 18:28

Henrik,

i think even more than that,
the marshall
6 front comanders,
and i don't know if the ural cities comanders is going to move too.
that it is 7 people to move
and they have to ask the people and make polls!!!

a turn can take easily two weeks, but if the majority agrees...

H Tower · March 17, 2003, 20:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Colwyn
anyone is interest I have done a RF1.4b (lot harder) with some different rule changes and events.

Hearsay! Burn the heretic!

CivGeneral · March 19, 2003, 01:13

How Often are Elections held. Since I am iterested in partisipating more in this Demogame

.

H Tower · March 19, 2003, 01:24

we haven't decided yet.

At least a month though, maybe two. It depends on how fast the game moves along. And of course the front commanders can be selected and sacked at will by the Marshal

Master Zen · March 19, 2003, 15:36

I'm sorry to inform that due to my increasing committment with the ISDG and the PTWDG I will not be able to participate in a meaninful manner in the RFDG.

maybe if I have time later on...

-Master Zen

Shaka Naldur · March 19, 2003, 17:22

the way we are going to play it will be better to change the goverment every few turns rather than using the time

Colwyn · March 19, 2003, 19:48

ignore

CivGeneral · March 20, 2003, 01:18

I have a Question:

Are there going to be Periodic Elections happening in this Game? I am curious since I would like to be in one of the Upper Positions.

Thanks,
CivGeneral

Shaka Naldur · March 20, 2003, 13:52

yes, we don´t know yet but every few turn or by time

but we´ll change the goverment every once in a while

The ANZAC · March 20, 2003, 18:15

Since there seem to be many people interested in this, there aren't many spots currently, and we need a system of gov't change every once in a while, why not setup a CEC (Central Executive Committee)? The CEC really existed in the Soviet Union and it could act as sort of a political intermediary to make things a little interesting. For example, they could sack the Marshal, etc. And the head would obviously be the party chairman.

Ah, gotta love Soviet bureacracy

The ANZAC · March 21, 2003, 20:40

As there seems to apathy/lack of action over the selection of Field Marshal of the Soviet Union, I propose the following: We establish a CEC as I said above. I will be the chairman and hopefully 4 other people will join me. Then from that we will discuss and decide who should be marshal. Sounds reasonable?