The Chronicle of Apolyton - Page 2

Beta · March 11, 2003, 17:49

Togas - great post. I whole-heartedly agree.

DeepO · March 11, 2003, 19:16

Well... convince me. Trip, why don't you write up a piece on the past game in the style as you would write 'our' history. I know you now only know Lux's side of the story, but try to be as objective as you would other wise. Dry history, only the facts... a couple of turns, an era in time, anything you like.

I'm not sure exactly of how you would see things, but an example might explain a lot.

DeepO

Jon Shafer · March 11, 2003, 19:22

I would, but I don't have access to my forum, and Markos hasn't fixed that yet... No facts, no history.

E_T · March 11, 2003, 19:43

You have access to the SPDG, do one on the French-German-Persian War. That would be sufficient for us, I do beleave.

E_T

Jon Shafer · March 11, 2003, 19:45

I'm afraid I'm not very (read: at all) familiar with that.

I will try to find something though...

Jon Miller · March 11, 2003, 20:14

we could have the first 1000 years

than in a while, the second 1000 years

always making it a fwe turns away

and always trying to be objective (about a country would need to oked)

otherwise, great idea

Jon Miller

E_T · March 11, 2003, 20:48

I wonder if he would be given access to the ND site as well?? Know any German Trip??

E_T

Jon Shafer · March 11, 2003, 20:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Miller
we could have the first 1000 years

than in a while, the second 1000 years

always making it a fwe turns away

and always trying to be objective (about a country would need to oked)

otherwise, great idea

Jon Miller

Going by every thousand years would only be about a month's time... which would probably be too little time to have detailed information revealed. We'll have to see how things get organized to be able to tell when each chronicle should be released.

Jon Shafer · March 11, 2003, 20:54

Quote:

Originally posted by E_T
I wonder if he would be given access to the ND site as well?? Know any German Trip??

E_T

Genug.

Panzer32 · March 11, 2003, 21:30

Go by so many turns, instead of so many years.

Jon Shafer · March 11, 2003, 21:57

It may depend on when I can get started...

Wittlich · March 11, 2003, 22:32

So...are all teams in agreement to allow Trip access to their private forums? If we have teams who are not in agreement, what are their exact problems with this issue?

GhengisFarb™ · March 11, 2003, 22:47

We have several members who are very adamantly opposed to this. They are concerned that Trip may be doing this as an agent of Vox or Roleplay.

Not saying we won't agree to it eventually, their just not going to be easy sells. I haven't known Trip to have cheated or manipulated the game in anyway so I don't necessarily have a problem with it. But one mistake on his part could cause a lot of members to lose their willingness to stay involved with the game.

Beta · March 11, 2003, 23:38

Quote:

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
We have several members who are very adamantly opposed to this. They are concerned that Trip may be doing this as an agent of Vox or Roleplay.

Earth to said members.... hello...

You can rest assured that he is not doing this as an agent of Vox.

MrWhereItsAt · March 11, 2003, 23:47

I stake my reputation (for what that is worth) on the fact that this is no plot of Roleplay either - we have been discussing at length allowing Trip to join us before the issue of joining all teams was revealed to us. In fact, I think I remember that one of our team voiced the fear that perhaps Trip was acting as an agent of another team and hence would spy on US!

Grow up guys, Trip isn't stupid and he's not about to sabotage the whole experience for us - if he did anything like that it would be found out, and he would be in deep s***. I think we're all getting too involved in second guessing each other in diplomacy. But this isn't part of the game.

I have an odd opinion. I think Trip wants to join all teams for the exact reason he has stated. To compile a detailed story as it unfolds, to be revealed I presume at the end of play. He's obviously noted the relucatance some are expressing to allowing him and other Lux members from joining another team, so he has come up with a way to stay involved without upsetting the teams he doesn't join. He is not playing any more - Trip has said so himself. We could even help to catologue events within our own forums by bringing them to Trip's attention.

adaMada · March 11, 2003, 23:51

Quote:

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
We have several members who are very adamantly opposed to this. They are concerned that Trip may be doing this as an agent of Vox or Roleplay.

Not saying we won't agree to it eventually, their just not going to be easy sells. I haven't known Trip to have cheated or manipulated the game in anyway so I don't necessarily have a problem with it. But one mistake on his part could cause a lot of members to lose their willingness to stay involved with the game.

I give my solumn word that Trip is not "an agent" of Roleplay. I'm sure Togas will back this, as will other members of my team, but I wanted to go ahead and get it said. For all it's worth, those members of GoW are being overly paranoid -- Roleplay is honorable, as are Togas and Trip.

Ghengis, if any of your members would like a more personal guarentee that Trip is not an agent of Roleplay, they can contact Togas (our leader) or any of the members of our team (including myself). This is not some canned answer, or something that I've even discussed with my team, but I'm confident in that regard -- there is simply no question in this area. We are a honorable team -- there's little point in winning if one would cheet to do it. Personally, I'd be the first to resign from the game if I had any doubts in this regard.

-- adaMada

Wittlich · March 12, 2003, 00:16

Besides, why would Trip be an agent for Vox when we were the one responsible for pulling the life-support plug?

If anything, we (Vox) should be afraid of what Trip might do to get even

...but we are willing to allow Trip access to our private forum for the purpose of recording the history of the game.

Actually, now that I think about it, we all should have agreed to a non-partisan "Historian" for the game prior to its start...but since we did not, and Trip has volunteered to do the job now - why not?

Beta · March 12, 2003, 00:43

Quote:

Originally posted by adaMada

I give my solumn word that Trip is not "an agent" of Roleplay. I'm sure Togas will back this, as will other members of my team, but I wanted to go ahead and get it said. For all it's worth, those members of GoW are being overly paranoid -- Roleplay is honorable, as are Togas and Trip.

Ghengis, if any of your members would like a more personal guarentee that Trip is not an agent of Roleplay, they can contact Togas (our leader) or any of the members of our team (including myself). This is not some canned answer, or something that I've even discussed with my team, but I'm confident in that regard -- there is simply no question in this area. We are a honorable team -- there's little point in winning if one would cheet to do it. Personally, I'd be the first to resign from the game if I had any doubts in this regard.

-- adaMada

Ditto from Vox. Well said adaMada!

Jon Shafer · March 12, 2003, 01:14

Let me repeat something I told bigfree1 about this issue...

There are two kinds of "information gathering and handling" methods in this game.
1) Gathered through in-game research, or talking with members of other teams through discussion and negotiation.
2) Acquired through out-of-game means, either through the editor, exploiting PBEM cheats, etc.

1 has always been part of the game, and no matter how "angry" teams and team members get at each other, this is accepted as inevitable and part of the game. What's wrong with GF telling ND that RP is going to attack? (

) It could happen in real life, so why not.

2 is unacceptable. 2 basically covers anything that couldn't be repeated historically. You can't exploit history and suddenly know where the new world is. As many people know, I'm very adamant about my disgust towards cheating. For those of you who were here 10 months ago, remember Trip, the guy who wanted to keep the save for the SPDG sealed away from the public for fear of cheating. The poll was close, but it was made so that the game was allowed to be distributed.

Again, I'm completely against cheating. There is nothing worse than cheating to suck the fun out of the game, and I fully understand the consequences of affecting the game in an unnatural manner.

Which teams currently support this proposal?

I think we have official "yes"s from Roleplay and Vox, but beyond that I'm not sure. GoW is still discussing, and haven't heard a thing from GS or ND.

ZargonX · March 12, 2003, 01:52

Lego is holding a poll to make things all official and whatnot, and we will have the results sometime tomorrow! I will post our answer here as soon it is all nice and legally binding

Darekill · March 12, 2003, 02:43

We are still in the process of discussing your proposal Trip.
But i fear we will not give you access to our forum as long as we are not forced to do so. You will however get information on request.

btw. would you be able to read our forum without the risk of heavy misunderstanding the meaning. the posts are all german and sometimes even in not very easy to understand a german. Which means we use phrases and context that is unknown to you.

Hot_Enamel · March 12, 2003, 05:29

Quote:

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
We have several members who are very adamantly opposed to this. They are concerned that Trip may be doing this as an agent of Vox or Roleplay.

Actually GF, I just called him a heathen and a devil worshipper.

Quote:

Originally posted by TripWhat's wrong with GF telling ND that RP is going to attack?

You see !!! He has just given away our plans !

Darekill · March 12, 2003, 07:01

Old news!
We have already allied with RP to get rid of this GoW Pest.......

GhengisFarb™ · March 12, 2003, 15:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Darekill
Old news!
We have already allied with RP to get rid of this GoW Pest.......

But we're a good pest! We help plants grow in the garden, and... and.... ok, well I guess that's about it.

Aidun · March 12, 2003, 16:50

Is there much garden in the north. At least more than in the south, all those mountains, I could only find edelweiss.

Aidun

DeepO · March 12, 2003, 18:54

This is not an official GS reponse, there is some discussion going on in our team, but if you want access to Gathering Storm's private forum, one thing will be certain. There will have to be a group poll, like we did with all new members, and also with the other lurker / observer we already have: Soren.

Our procedure is essentially one in which every member has a veto right to use, dropping white or black balls in to a jar. So... I can't predict if you would be allowed, but I can predict if you wouldn't be, and you haven't convinced me yet. I support the idea in prinicipal, but there are many possible ways this could go wrong, so until I feel more sure this is going to objective and safe, you still got a black ball from me. Sorry

DeepO

Jon Shafer · March 12, 2003, 19:04

Not to split hairs, but your tune sure did change when the subject went from a Lux AAR to a 'complete AAR' (including GS)...

ZargonX · March 12, 2003, 19:12

Well, our Lego poll is wrapping up, and it looks like we have a winner! So, count that as one more team vote in favor, I suppose

DeepO · March 12, 2003, 19:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
Not to split hairs, but your tune sure did change when the subject went from a Lux AAR to a 'complete AAR' (including GS)...

No, that is not the problem. I would love a full AAR, and no matter if this chronicle will go through, I'll write a GS AAR, or part of it, when the game ends for us. But surely you can understand there are some reservations when it comes to most intimately disclosing our forum while the game is still running. You can tell you will not abuse it, and I believe you really mean that when you say it, but faults can always happen, and I don't know how you would do things.

What exactly is the proposal now; a closed chronicle, only to be published after the game? A delayed one? If so, by how much? How detailed will it be, would it include screenshots of important events like epic battles and such? (animated) minimaps? How much specific information on a team will you disclose? How will you make sure the team does not get offended by anything you post?

I still have many questions left... as said, an example might explain a lot. I don't care which game you pick, I don't care what you describe, I just want to see something in the style of what your chronicle would look like. It shouldn't be a Lux AAR, if that's your intention; I doubt you will be allowed to publish a GS AAR before the game ends. So if it's not an AAR, what do you have in mind, precisely? Please show me... convince me

DeepO

Jon Shafer · March 12, 2003, 19:53

Any material relating to a particular team will be stored in a seperate file for each team. At each 'release date,' I would show the section of each team what I would be publishing. If they believe that it contains information they would rather not have released, then it won't be released, and another period of time (a month, 2 months, 25 turns, whatever) another vote would be held.

The specific content has yet to be determined. Screenshots, etc. will be very valuable, and I will probably be gathering a few, but those, like the chronicles themselves, would be subject to review by the teams involved before anything would be released. While I can't yet demonstrate to you what I would have to offer (I have some things written up, but I can't disclose them

), since my writing would involve quite a range of things, including important specific actions (battles, etc.), in addition to general views of teams, like "such and such a team is having reservations about agreeing to the trade offered by such-and-such another team, due to the fact that they could get it elsewhere, etc. etc." As I said before, things will vary greatly depending upon the material. Even if I did a "demo" of my writing, based upon something else, like from the SPDG, it would not have all of the things I would need to include in the real chronicles, so it wouldn't be an accurate portrayal of what I would be making.

Also, I can assure you, it would not be from a "Lux point of view." It would be like a reporter, looking in at the action and describing it to someone who was not familiar with the situation. As I said, it wouldn't be biased either. Instead of "the trecharous treaty" it would be "such and such a team viewed this treaty as trecharous, because it impacted them in such-and-such a way." Like I said, think of a newspaper or magazine article. Just reporting.

[Edit]Me likes paragraphs...[/Edit]