Americas end as global leader? FICTIONAL

Spec · March 12, 2003, 15:20

This is just a question from a ''fictional'' point of view.

Let's say that France, Germany, Russia and China declare war on the U.S. would they be able to win? Do you think america would resist?

I think they'd be overwhelmed and wouldn't be able to compensate.

Paul Hanson · March 12, 2003, 15:22

They'd lose. They're just a big bunch of Euroasiawussies, afetr all.

monkspider · March 12, 2003, 15:22

Such a war would probably eventually result in America splintering into a handful of different nations and yes, it would spell the end of it's reign as global imperator.

rah · March 12, 2003, 15:24

Tsk, tsk tsk, Spectator, you're in violation of the two thread per day limit. Any further attempts will result in suspension.

RAH

rah · March 12, 2003, 15:34

Got your PM. THIS time i'll close the other one and reopen this one. The rule is not intended for people to shotgun and then see what sticks and then decide which one they want opened. It's to reduce CLUTTER and spamming. But I'm feeling generous today and you were nice about it, so I did as you asked and didn't restrict you. Please remember for future reference.

RAH

DinoDoc · March 12, 2003, 15:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Spectator
Let's say that France, Germany, Russia and China declare war on the U.S. would they be able to win?

No. It's one of the beauties of having an ocean between your nearest potential military rivals. Water is a superb barrier to invasion.

ahenobarb · March 12, 2003, 15:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Spectator
Do you think america would resist?

Uh... Yeah.

I'll avoid the rest of the scorpion/spider fight supposition.

Spec · March 12, 2003, 15:44

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc

No. It's one of the beauties of having an ocean between your nearest potential military rivals. Water is a superb barrier to invasion.

Yea, ok. But I think that with todays thecnology the planet is so small that it doesn't make that much of a difference.
Understand me well, I think it does make a difference but not as much as in world war 2.

Nubclear · March 12, 2003, 15:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Spectator
This is just a question from a ''fictional'' point of view.

Let's say that France, Germany, Russia and China declare war on the U.S. would they be able to win? Do you think america would resist?

Yes, and yes.

DinoDoc · March 12, 2003, 15:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Spectator
Yea, ok. But I think that with todays thecnology the planet is so small that it doesn't make that much of a difference.

I've yet to see any convincing evidence of that though.

Spec · March 12, 2003, 15:50

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc

I've yet to see any convincing evidence of that though.

Just stealth weapons for example, satellites, long range missiles....etc....

Az · March 12, 2003, 15:54

. this doesn't explain how they win an allout war against the US.

I imagine they probably could, but not using those.

Oh, and NO NUKES.

DanS · March 12, 2003, 15:55

Spec: The only countries to have much of that are the US and Russia.

None of our potential adversaries have much by way of navies.

DinoDoc · March 12, 2003, 15:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Spectator
Just stealth weapons for example,

Can be detected. In addition to that air power alone have never won a war against a Great power. I'd even dispute its efectiveness as a sole weapon against minor powers.

Quote:

satellites,

Don't win wars.

Quote:

long range missiles

Again they don't win wars. If you are going to invade the territory of a Great Power, you have to occupy it with troops.

Spec · March 12, 2003, 16:04

Quote:

Originally posted by DanS
Spec: The only countries to have much of that are the US and Russia.

None of our potential adversaries have much by way of navies.

Ummmmm, I think...no, I'm pretty damn sure China has those, as for Germany they DOES have those. Germany is one if not the most richest country in the world.
China has 4 million soldiers ready for action.

DinoDoc · March 12, 2003, 16:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Spectator
China has 4 million soldiers ready for action.

China doesn't even have the naval assest needed to invade Taiwan. I think we can safely ignore any soldiers China might have in this scenario.

Spec · March 12, 2003, 16:08

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc

Can be detected. In addition to that air power alone have never won a war against a Great power. I'd even dispute its efectiveness as a sole weapon against minor powers.

Quote:

satellites,

Don't win wars.

Quote:

long range missiles

Again they don't win wars. If you are going to invade the territory of a Great Power, you have to occupy it with troops.

Dude, stealth weapons CAN be detected, not sure to be.
Satelites are for spying, nowing where to strike. Satelites dont win wars but they sure help a whole lot.
Long range missiles dont win wars but they can strike strategic targets, such as bases, radars, boats, carriers, airports, banks, factories. Today, there is almost no use for Bombers, they took their jobs.

oedo · March 12, 2003, 16:10

any of the countries named in topic would be able to wipe out the whole american continent within less than one week. germany will need some months for preparation though, since they haven´t any nukes yet. but after all I don´t see how the US could be able to prevent their being wiped out by any other countries nukes.
the counterattack will destroy trhe rest of the world too, so guess yourself who will win.

Sandman · March 12, 2003, 16:11

These threads are usually pretty ugly displays of tubthumping American twatriots and their European counterparts.

ahenobarb · March 12, 2003, 16:11

Double reply:

Quote:

Just stealth weapons for example,

And who has those....

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc

Can be detected. In addition to that air power alone have never won a war against a Great power. I'd even dispute its efectiveness as a sole weapon against minor powers.

Kosovo and Afghanistan. Troops had to move in afterward to occupy but the wars were fought and won with airpower alone.

Velociryx · March 12, 2003, 16:12

If the countries you mentioned DoW'd the USA, the first problem they would have would be GETTING to the USA.

France has ONE modern carrier (the DeGaulle), and it has been plagued with problems since it first set sail, and before. China....now THERE's a nation that leaps off the page when you think Maritime power....

The long and the short of it is that if the three countries named laid down such a declaration, and if we forego the nuke option, then there's precious little they could do to the United States. We surpass them (even combined) in air power, and we could toss their combined navy aside like it was just so much flotsam. France and Germany are almost completely reliant on US airlift capacity to move their troops from place to place, and somehow, in the face of a declaration, I just don't see us being generous enough to offer our assiatance....

-=Vel=-

Spec · March 12, 2003, 16:12

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc

China doesn't even have the naval assest needed to invade Taiwan. I think we can safely ignore any soldiers China might have in this scenario.

But chineese soldiers can be parachuted from german or french planes, dropped by french boats and both ways with the russians. China has the men and the other countries have the thecs.
As for china invading taiwan, they have so many men that they could drop by with yats and still win.
Imagine 50000 yats with 10 men abord each of them, taiwan has no chance in hell.

Az · March 12, 2003, 16:14

so are you suggesting that the other countries would mount conventional warheads on their ICBMs?

I'll give you a couple of hints, to the way this debate CAN be won by your side.

Guerilla warfare, and terrorism, united foreign policy, sabotage, propoganda, hurting economic infrastructure.

You'll have to attack sources of raw materials, because everything can be produced in the US, and their economic, and manufacturing power is close to unlimited.

DinoDoc · March 12, 2003, 16:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Spectator
Long range missiles dont win wars but they can strike strategic targets,

Until you can give me a serious reason why the UK wasn't knocked out of WWII by German bombing, I'm going to regard your assertion as being specious at best.

Spec · March 12, 2003, 16:23

Cuz the U.S. saved their ass. They begged and begged the U.s. to join the war and churchill was pissing all over him self.
They dont make bombers no more, long range missiles are within 2 feet of accuracy and costs a lot less than a bomber.

raghar · March 12, 2003, 18:54

TU 160 and few cruise missiles. If Europe would transfer some planes on places that US need, US would have several problems. And I don't think that Arab countries would be happy that US would try to be world leader.
UK could be thank to its EU ties with France on this one. And Saudi would do against US as well.

Thread on US x rest of the world, it could be interesting.

What US president said: US are at 6:1 dissadvantage to rest of the World?

Sprayber · March 12, 2003, 19:07

More wet dreams by people who have played too many strategy games.

oedo · March 12, 2003, 19:18

btw. is bribing allowed or not?

Sprayber · March 12, 2003, 19:21

Quote:

Originally posted by oedo

btw. is bribing allowed or not?

I'm sure it would be apart of any war

Worthingtons · March 12, 2003, 19:41

Firstly, England withstood years of German Assault without cracking and without US assistance. We'd soaked up the pressure and were starting our counter attack when the US entered. I think most Historians would agree that America NOT entering WW2 would have meant a prolonged route to victory (for england) or a stalemate, England simply woudnt have lost.

Anyway, On topic.

There is no way this Alliance could overhaul America , As Vel says they coudnt ship thier troops and attack forces accross to America.

Secondly do you think the UK would stand by and let our good friends in America suffer?? Look at the Force we're ready to send to the gulf, that alone would wipe out France and Germany combined.

Thirdly, how many countries would sell thier values for some good American Dollars?? America has so much Wealth it could buy a whole heap of Powers, who do you think Japan would ally with? Thier rich neighbours of America, or this supposed Alliance and be the first to have thier arses kicked!

On a Final point, while economically those powers suggested might add up to something, Military speaking the only country there of any note is Russia, who are light years behind the US.