The Sweetness and Light Game

Scouse Gits · March 14, 2003, 17:58

The Rules as laid down by the Dean of The Academy

This is a Giga map - therefore MGE.
Victory by conquest, but the AI can build spaceships

At all times:

* Spotless Reputation
* No bribing - except Barb units
* No nukes

Before 1850AD and Hard Fundamentalism

* No attacking except on Holy Home Continent - may repulse invasions
* No military land units or Settlers or Engineers may leave the Holy Home Continent
* Any goverment at any time, BUT once Fundamentalism is discovered we MUST take it at the next oedo year and stay in it thereafter
* All Wonders except SoL - only the except SoL part is mandatory

After 1850 and Fundamentalism

* The gloves are off boys - but remember the first 3 rules

The SGs in concert

We give the 4000BC start below and are starting off - will post the next save in an hour or three

Scouse Gits · March 14, 2003, 18:55

We played 15 turns each to take us to BC2500...

Play Order
SG[1]
SG(2)

The log ...

4000 = hut (94, 224) Archer;
3400 = Mean City founded;
3350 = Begarsville founded;
3200 = Alphabet -> Code of Laws;
2750 = Code of Laws -> Writing;

The SGs now well down the second

Bloody Monk · March 14, 2003, 18:57

I presume you left out the word allow in

Quote:

(Allow) All Wonders except SoL

Yes??

I have the save and will play now if that is agreeable. Pretty, LITTLE Island could have been the name for this I think.

Monk

Bloody Monk · March 14, 2003, 20:25

Made some roads, explored the rest of the island, built two cities, got us about 40% to Monarchy.

Log

2150 Heaven's Gate at (100, 218) with hidden special at ( 103, 217)

2100 Temple in the Mean City...still mean

1950 Writing discovered --> Monarchy

1800 Pool of Grace at (107,227) with hidden special and something in the sea.

My vision is to build a few more cities, link up the roads, explore with dips, do some trade and grow to our fulfillment.

Monk

Scouse Gits · March 14, 2003, 21:08

Play Order

SG[1]
SG(2)
Bloody Monk
SCG
Bob_Smurf42
La Fayette

-JRabbit
STYOM

This will be a long game so one or two more players are welcome

Go for it guys....

The SGs quaffing coffee

SCG · March 14, 2003, 21:11

couple of questions? are diplomats considered land military units? if not, that means we can explore with them and use as appropriate and allowed once we get mapmaking. Also, we get a hut with a diplomat that finds something other than gold, science or barbs.

Also, if we are confined to our home continent city wise I'm curious as to reasoning behind the placement of our first 4 cities. since we are on a continent other than #1, we know the boundaries and could probably have planned out the layout beforehand - or maybe we did and i just don't understand it?

*ponders whether he should jump in and actually play

*

Ben Kenobi · March 14, 2003, 21:27

I want to wait for the Fundy gov't,

But I'll give this a shot, likely tomorrow depending on my schedule.

SCG:
Join the crowd.

If you want to play, go ahead of me.

SCG · March 14, 2003, 21:33

well, i have the game, and have been analyzing it

might as well take slot #4 and get us into monarchy

-Jrabbit · March 14, 2003, 22:25

Due home from Austin tomorrow.
This sounds fun.

Sign me up.

SCG · March 14, 2003, 22:39

thoughts: not especially happy with city placement, 22/60 beakers, max 9 beakers atm - 5 turns by 1 beaker, doesn't matter as we are 6 turns from first viable oedo year. 1 city that can grow in 3 turns, so should be able to get by with 6 beakers right now. can't argue with the build choices atm (3 settlers and 1 warrior)

1750: realize that workers are set for 6 beakers at the start, and wind up putting workers back where they started

1600: Thucydidies says we are 2nd happiest - must be the despotism

we have corrupted shields in Heaven's Gate. (40/60)
1550: settler in Mean City (46/60), need to average 7 beakers now, rearrange workers
1500: none of the advisors are happy

1450: Germans build palace in Leipzig, Monarchy, choose Currency (Horseback Riding, Literacy and Mapmaking) revolt, crown first Small Meanie!, Berlin (German) #1 city in the world - go figure (followed by Rome, Madrid, Delhi, and New York, all size 3), tidy workers, rush settlers in Beggarsville to avoid food waste.
1400: settlers emerge from Beggarsville
1300: Babylonians build palace in Nineveh? looks like its going to be one of those games
1200: settlers decend in Heaven's gate.
1150: diplomat in Mean city. ponder between settlers, library or colossus. Decide on colossus start.
1050: Romans build Palace in Veii? yep, one of those games
1000: Currency choose Literacy (struggled between pottery, masonry and mysticism)

final thoughts - didn't have any real goal in mind other than monarchy and connectivity. We should be able to get 4 cities on the western half of the island with minimal overlap, allowing us to develop several large cities while we work towards our goal of (did i really sign up for a fundy game???) fundamentalism. We'd have to bypass a small canal to do that, but we don't have an especially large island so shouldn't be a big deal - especially with every city likely to be a port city.

anyway, the save

SCG · March 14, 2003, 22:42

and of course the zip for the rabbitfolk

Bob_Smurf42 · March 14, 2003, 23:56

I'd like to try this game, if you all don't mind

, it seems we have a shortage of players in this one(perhaps the 2+ other games in progress...

)
I'm not a Diety player(yet), but there's only one way to learn , right? Right?? Hello??? Anyone?????

Bloody Monk · March 15, 2003, 00:17

@SCG,

We are moving right along. I can't speak for the Scousers, but, I chose my two city sites on the basis of getting the most cities in our tight space, while working the most specials. Each of them has a hidden special to be revealed. Later, two more cities can be added, if needed, SW and SE of Beggersville.

Note should be taken of two more hidden specials at the southern end of the western half of the island, at (92, 226) and (94, 230), where two more cities can be established. Two more can fill in the space in the west without crowding. That should give us 8 (or 10) cities in our home world, that we can "perfect" until we go Fundy. A good base, I think.

As for the exploring dip/hut tipping thing, perhaps our hosts will clarify for us. As it stands now, dips are not proscribed in bullet 5, so exploring with dips is probably going to pass muster. But, I think huts must be passed over until we are Fundy. Otherwise, we will have units/nomads/ advanced tribes offshore before they are allowed. We need a ruling I think.

Monk

La Fayette · March 15, 2003, 04:49

Hello Bob_Smurf42!
I am fairly sure that you are welcome.

(I shall play if there's room left and nobody else will have a try; since 2 gits is enough to provide most of the robust constructive criticism required

).

La Fayette · March 15, 2003, 04:59

I meant 2 Gits + 1 Monk + probably a few more Deans from The Institute

Scouse Gits · March 15, 2003, 11:19

Bob_Smurf42 Welcome to the Academy ... you play next

Thank you BM and SCG for keeping things moving so well

La Fayette and Lagomorph you're on the list

-----------------------------

SG(2)

Bloody Monk · March 15, 2003, 13:12

SG's,

A ruling on popping offshore huts, with exploring dips before Fundy, has been requested. Thankyouverymuch.

Monk

Scouse Gits · March 15, 2003, 13:15

Yep ... I will alert SG[1] about this ... the game is his baby

---------------------

SG(2)

Six Thousand Year Old Man · March 15, 2003, 16:22

sign me up...

With me playing it'll be that much more challenging for the rest of you

Scouse Gits · March 15, 2003, 16:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
sign me up...

With me playing it'll be that much more challenging for the rest of you

You're in

You won't have trouble with this one ... too many rules

-----------------------

SG(2)

Bob_Smurf42 · March 16, 2003, 01:23

This will be interesting...
I *should* be able to play tomorrow, or Mon. at the latest.
15 turns sound right?

Scouse Gits · March 16, 2003, 14:28

Clarification of rules ...

Anyone who does not consider a Diplomat to be a military unit has never played with M LaFayette!
However, given the rules as stated - we must consider their use as explorers a legitimate exploit - we had actually considered the use of carrier- aircraft combos for exploring as the only loop-hole -- how wrong can you be?
Off-continent hut-popping prior to Jihad is forbidden!

SG[1] - he gives and he taketh away!

Bloody Monk · March 16, 2003, 15:22

Excellent!!

The logic of the rules holds.

Now, let's learn how to make maps so we can build a boat and go find some trade stops...with diplomats to explore as we go.

Unless...one supposes that Explorer units would also pass muster....

Monk

Bob_Smurf42 · March 16, 2003, 23:53

Good King Bob surveys his realm...
Dissedents gather around the palace, demanding to colonize other islands. To show his benevolence, Bob grants them their wish- if they can swim to a new island, they are welcome to stay there. King Bob, too wishes to leave

, but is afraid to.
He has had a vision, a man who called himself "[1]", urging him to take power, but warning to not leave the "continent" (island

) until the people can be organised and banded together.

975: German capitol moved to Hamburg
Beggarsville settler sent to mine for special near Point of Grace
Dip disbanded towards collosuss
950: Found Green Meanie
875: Mean City settler mines for special near Beggarsville.
850: Babylonian capitol moved to...Babylon???

Heaven's Gate builds temple, starts settler
Over 200,000 citizens!
825: Americans start HG
800: Discover Literacy, pick Pottery from Horse Riding/Masonry/Mysticism/Republic/Trade/Warrior Code
775: Babylonians start Pyramids
Point of Grace settler starts road between Green Meanie & Heaven's Gate
750: Green Meanie builds warrior, temple next
725: Romans start Pyramids
700: Beggarsville builds temple, starts warrior
Beggarsville settler starts road on newly built forest
675: Heaven's Gate builds settler, begins library
650: Heaven's settler finishes up Green/Heaven road
625: mean settler starts road-Beggarsville>Heaven/Mean City

Some of those high in the governmental ranks report that Kinb Bob has taken to being alone of late. He spends much time thinking, and often refuses to eat. One morning, his loyal servants come to his room, but is locked shut. Bashing down the door, they find King Bob kneeling before an altar, in an almost comatose state. Not being able to arouse him, they return to give the news and await a new leader. He has left but a scrap of paper as to his intentions:
We should get Pottery next turn-I would change Mean City to HG, or possibly GL

And the save:

SCG · March 17, 2003, 01:34

Quote:

Originally posted by SCG
1450: Germans build palace in Leipzig
1300: Babylonians build palace in Nineveh? looks like its going to be one of those games
1050: Romans build Palace in Veii? yep, one of those games

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob_Smurf42
850: Babylonian capitol moved to...Babylon???

Looks likes its going to be one of those games where the AI plays musical capitals

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob_Smurf42
We should get Pottery next turn-I would change Mean City to HG, or possibly GL

You'll get a lot of support for HG and a lot of robust constructive criticism for suggesting the GL - a lot players here consider the GL a handicap rather than a bonus in solo play, as it balloons research costs.

Bloody Monk · March 17, 2003, 01:41

@Bob

Welcome and congrats on your first turns.

Herewith is a bit of gentle criticism/suggestion. Reading the log and looking over the save, bells went off at...

Quote:

675: Heaven's Gate builds settler, begins library

Why?? A Library costs 1g maintenance every turn, and in a city contributing one beaker, a library will be no help at this time.

Maybe this is a case where nothing leapt to mind when trying to decide what to build next. That happens. Here is a tip from a memorable discussion many years ago: "When there is nothing else to build, make camels."

Now I know camels won't be available until Trade, but the principle still applies. Build a dip that can be disbanded into our Wonder. Now, that would have been a better play, I think. It is still early enough in the build that switching to dip now will lose only four shields.(hint, hint)

Monk

Scouse Gits · March 17, 2003, 04:01

Well done, Bob

Yet another (Robust) Constructive Criticism:
It takes longer to road a forest than to road grassland - put the road in before mining for the special.
& to echo Monk - dips make excellent 'poor man's caravans'.

Once more welcome - hope you enjoy it here - even if it does get fairly hot in the kitchen sometimes ...

SG[1]

Scouse Gits · March 17, 2003, 07:34

I had genuinely thought that HG or GL was irony.
If not, You have to be joking!

SG[1]

Scouse Gits · March 17, 2003, 07:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
Unless...one supposes that Explorer units would also pass muster....

As you well know, Friend Monk, an explorer can capture a city by direct assault (if it happens to be empty) - it is therefore de jure & de facto a military unit!

SG[1]

Scouse Gits · March 17, 2003, 07:48

Play Order

SG[1]
SG(2)
Bloody Monk
SCG
Bob_Smurf42
La Fayette
-JRabbit

STYOM
obiwan18
Old n Slow

SG[1]