QS have released Patch info!

Nirvana_CN · March 15, 2003, 09:47

Taken from here :- http://www.ina-community.com/forums/...hreadid=277756

Yes, work is in progress on a patch. We have no delivery date at this time. We are concentrating on the Military AI (offensive, defensive and build queue) and point defense problems, along with some UI glitches and any crash or easy to fix bugs. Changes which require any artwork are extremely unlikely for this patch. The plan is to release a data-only patch fairly quickly which should help with some of the Military AI problems (and other things) and may also contain some additional documentation on use of the spreadsheets to help the modders. This will be followed by a code patch. Code changes will be listed here as they are verified internally, so that you know what is coming. The actual release of the patches will be controlled by the QA departments at Infogrames (for Windows) and Destineer (for Macintosh). We are happy to hear constructive feedback from fans regarding bugs of design issues and have been listening to feedback from a number of fans, both off and on the boards.

Added buttons to both the Planets screen and System Econ panel to go straight to the build queue(s) (without having to drill down manually).

Add turns left to completion to the display on the System Econ panel for the items currently being built by the planet.

Modify behavior of sliders so that when clicking on the area outside of a slider arrow to set it's position, the slider arrow is moved five pixels in that direction instead of to the point where the mouse was clicked.

Correct the scroll thumb positions of the task force composition panel on the galaxy map to reset when a different item is selected.

Correct the scroll thumb positions of border policy setting descriptions panel to reset when a different item is selected.

Fixed a bug where hitting the ESC key to close a planet information sub-panel would prevent the planet panels from being opened again with the TAB key.

Fixed a bug where two planet information sub-panels could be open at the same time if you hit the ESC key and TAB key fast enough.

Fix Dev Plans UI such that it acts more dynamically in the adding, replacing, and removing of plans.

Added loading and saving of Dev Plans to external file.

Modify galaxy screen so that star names and empire flags remain visible up to the halfway zoom point when zooming the galaxy map out.

Fix Ship Design screen so that the pulldowns do not reset when attempting to start a second design.

Fix Ship Design screen so that the equipment list scrolls when it exceeds the size of the panel.

Correct a problem which caused the lower numbered empire to always win the coin flip when both sides chose assault planet in space combat. (It turns out the problem was different than originally thought - only noticed on Orion because all other computer players have a higher empire number than the human player).

Correct a problem which caused the AI to build system colony ships when none were needed (or usable).

Removed code which degraded ground unit experience while in the delay box or the reserves, so that it is possible to get a unit higher than "experienced".

Modified ground combat results so that capturing a planet also gives you a random tech from the other empire.

Fixed a bug in the colonization AI that was not properly reducing the desirability of systems containing colonies of other empires.

Fixed a bug in military construction AI that was improperly calculating the amount of transport capability in the empire, therefore causing it to build way too many transports. (It wanted enough capacity to hold 80% of ground forces, but did not calculate the existing capacity correctly).

Fixed bug that allowed a task force to fly through a Guardian system without stopping.

Added ctl-click to force direct travel to another star (off-road if no starlane).

statusperfect · March 15, 2003, 10:06

Thanx for the newsflash. THis will be a news item for sure.

lockstep · March 15, 2003, 10:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Nirvana_CN
Changes which require any artwork are extremely unlikely for this patch.

Sounds like QS is already planning for a second code patch ... I really hope they'll polish this game as much as Firaxis did with Civ3.

The Templar · March 15, 2003, 11:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Nirvana_CN
Yes, work is in progress on a patch. We have no delivery date at this time.

We are concentrating on the Military AI (offensive, defensive and build queue) and point defense problems, along with some UI glitches and any crash or easy to fix bugs. Changes which require any artwork are extremely unlikely for this patch.

The plan is to release a data-only patch fairly quickly which should help with some of the Military AI problems (and other things) and may also contain some additional documentation on use of the spreadsheets to help the modders.

Unless the PD bug is easy to fix, it sounds like we'll be waiting for awhile. The fact that it is not mentioned by name in the above quote leads me to believe we will be waiting awhile.

Stuie · March 15, 2003, 12:09

Quote:

Originally posted by The Templar
Unless the PD bug is easy to fix, it sounds like we'll be waiting for awhile. The fact that it is not mentioned by name in the above quote leads me to believe we will be waiting awhile.

Exactly what do you think they meant by...

Quote:

We are concentrating on the Military AI (offensive, defensive and build queue) and point defense problems...

Can't get any more specific than that in my opinion.

Looks like a very promising patch.

Ultimate Trip · March 15, 2003, 12:19

Sounds great, I'm looking forward to the patch, for the time being my copy of MOO3 is collecting dust.

asleepathewheel · March 15, 2003, 12:50

Great news, some progress

BobD · March 15, 2003, 14:59

Thank god, there's finally a light at the end of the tunnel. After suffering through the Dirext X Surface bug 5(!) turns in a row I have given up trying to play this game until it gets fixed. Hopefully it won't be too long.

statusperfect · March 15, 2003, 15:03

Quote:

Originally posted by lockstep
Sounds like QS is already planning for a second code patch ... I really hope they'll polish this game as much as Firaxis did with Civ3.

Yup. Patched Civ3 is a masterpiece.

Stuie · March 15, 2003, 16:06

Quote:

Originally posted by BobD
After suffering through the Dirext X Surface bug 5(!) turns in a row I have given up trying to play this game until it gets fixed.

The only time I have experienced this "bug" is when another program becomes the focus in windows (either by alt-tab or by hitting the Start Menu key or Sleep key by accident), and I have to re-focus MOO3 from the windows' toolbar. I just avoid all of the above by running MOO3 with no other programs active and avoiding the aforementioned keys.

Is it happening under other circumstances? You might need to turn off a screen-saver or something - the solution may be that simple.

Stuie · March 15, 2003, 16:07

Quote:

Originally posted by statusperfect
Yup. Patched Civ3 is a masterpiece.

Unfortunately there were quite a few who were driven away by the initial offering and refuse to come back. Unfortunate for them, anyway.

The Templar · March 15, 2003, 16:33

Quote:

Originally posted by The Templar

Unless the PD bug is easy to fix, it sounds like we'll be waiting for awhile. The fact that it is not mentioned by name in the above quote leads me to believe we will be waiting awhile.

I stand corrected. Allow me to rephrase - the idea of a data-only patch leaves me wondering about the PD bug.

Still, once the PD bug is fixed - well, that's 50% of my gripe with the game. SO I'm feelibng far more optimistic now.

Nirvana_CN · March 15, 2003, 20:49

Same here Templar, the AI and the PD bug are my big gripes, aside from that i love moo3 so far

Vince278 · March 15, 2003, 21:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Nirvana_CN
We have no delivery date at this time.

Sounds familiar.

Hope it comes out before I get too frustrated and move on.

Ozymandous · March 15, 2003, 23:17

Quote:

Originally posted by The Templar

I stand corrected. Allow me to rephrase - the idea of a data-only patch leaves me wondering about the PD bug.

Still, once the PD bug is fixed - well, that's 50% of my gripe with the game. SO I'm feelibng far more optimistic now.

Actually, if what some have said and a single variable was swapped to cause the error with PD, it could be fixed with this "data-only" patch.

I'd think that a "code patch" might optimize some of the internal code or be some kind or reworking (beyond a mod to text files) of the game itself, which would cause more testing, etc. Adding a "military dev plan" or some sort of way to macro-manage military production would be something that could be added in a "code patch."

Of course I could be wrong, but if they'd just fixe the AI to pick something other than troops/troop ships to build that would be a vast improvement.

Crostoneman · March 15, 2003, 23:48

If the PD bug is fixed, does this mean the point defence missiles go after missiles, or do you have to assign them to point defence ships. If this is true, then there is merit to why the A.I. keeps building I.F. task forces, and the battles would be a lot more interesting.

BobD · March 16, 2003, 06:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuie

The only time I have experienced this "bug" is when another program becomes the focus in windows (either by alt-tab or by hitting the Start Menu key or Sleep key by accident), and I have to re-focus MOO3 from the windows' toolbar. I just avoid all of the above by running MOO3 with no other programs active and avoiding the aforementioned keys.

Is it happening under other circumstances? You might need to turn off a screen-saver or something - the solution may be that simple.

To the best of my knowledge this isn't the problem. I never alt-tab out of the game, nor do I have other programs running (except my internet connection). It usually happens during (or just after) a combat sequence, so it's "inbetween" turns. The game I was playing was pretty far along (turn 350+) so maybe it has something to do with the huge amount of data that the game has to process? Anyway, I'm putting my hopes on the patch.

CharlesBHoff · March 16, 2003, 07:34

Quote:

Originally posted by BobD
Thank god, there's finally a light at the end of the tunnel. After suffering through the Dirext X Surface bug 5(!) turns in a row I have given up trying to play this game until it gets fixed. Hopefully it won't be too long.

I have the same problen untril I change the graphic setting in the option in MOO3 from hight to either Medium or Low.

CharlesBHoff · March 16, 2003, 08:03

Since I started playing computer games since the late 1970's let me shared some thought on this. I than also did some programming on the early computers. The games make to day are alot more complex than the one make in the past. All games of the late 1970's with afew exception where DOS game's which where very stable compare to windows 3.1 and early win 95 games. DOS programming is alot easyier to do than windows programming which is why game companies didnot release windows game untril later.
In DOS only one thing was running the games and what ever support from DOS program that was needed to run. Windows programming is many time harder as you must worry about background program's running while your game is also running. Some background are vital windows programs which cannot be block or turn off without windows
crashing on you. DOS games very rarely crash on you untril you have the wrong type of DOS on your computer and you have to upgrade your version of DOS.
The reason that the early games where bug free was that detecting bug is easy when your program are simple and the operation system you where writeing for was also simple. Debugging than simple short program will take from 2 to 3 hours per hour sent programming. In the more involse game programming and more complex windrows program it might take at least 10 to 20 hours of debugging for each hours sent programming.

CharlesBHoff · March 16, 2003, 08:11

The time sent debugging isnot the total time sent writeing the program. The program when it is being delveoply is also being rewritten and debugged while they are working on the code untril near the end when their have a pretty good idear that they have good codes in place. It is very common that in the beginning that codes for the game is going throught many revision and is contation being change and debugged.

Nirvana_CN · March 16, 2003, 11:04

Plus the fact Moo3 was make as a modders paradise doesnt help, instead of an Exe file calling data and code from one massive file, they are calling it from 100's of data sources. Makes testing a lenghy process i would expect.

I still stand by the fact M003 could be a true classic with a few patches

*ones off for a few more turns before the gf has finished sunday lunch

*

Kc7mxo · March 17, 2003, 00:34

Quote:

Unfortunately there were quite a few who were driven away by the initial offering and refuse to come back. Unfortunate for them, anyway.

<= raises hand

CharlesBHoff · March 17, 2003, 04:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Nirvana_CN
Plus the fact Moo3 was make as a modders paradise doesnt help, instead of an Exe file calling data and code from one massive file, they are calling it from 100's of data sources. Makes testing a lenghy process i would expect.

I still stand by the fact M003 could be a true classic with a few patches

*ones off for a few more turns before the gf has finished sunday lunch

*

When than game is being work on it is commonly broken down into many smaller files to make rewritten and debugging code easyer. Then for betra testing and releaseing the final program is it recompile into larger files.

MariOne · March 17, 2003, 08:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuie

Unfortunately there were quite a few who were driven away by the initial offering and refuse to come back. Unfortunate for them, anyway.

Unfortunately, I was not driven away by bugs, or by any intial unbalance whatsoever in the game parameters, but by the very philosophy behind the game design itself, which made it imho dull, shallow, unattractive despite all its promises.
And that view is not just my freak prejudice, but is shared by more than a few gaming-committed and openminded members of this same site.

I hardly figure a patch can fix THAT.
I could be nevertheless giving it a try again sometimes, but that's not in my priority list. After all, in six or twelve months, I'll have to dust the top shelves too....

PS: shameful, lame, provocative plug: I found SEIVGold more exciting and interesting to play than Civ3!

Kahn · March 17, 2003, 13:00

HELLO!?! Is anyone awake at Quicksilver/Infogrames?

With over half of the poor schleps taken in by the slick spin doctoring not even able to run this piece of crap for more than a couple of turns before the now infamous "DirectX surface not available" make an appearance, followed by a crash to the desktop, and this is all QS/IG has to say in response:

Quote:

Originally posted by Nirvana_CN
Taken from here :- http://www.ina-community.com/forums/...hreadid=277756

We are concentrating on the Military AI (offensive, defensive and build queue) and point defense problems, along with some UI glitches and any crash or easy to fix bugs. Changes which require any artwork are extremely unlikely for this patch.

The plan is to release a data-only patch fairly quickly which should help with some of the Military AI problems (and other things) and may also contain some additional documentation on use of the spreadsheets to help the modders.

What planet are you from??? Fix the errors in the game before you begin "tweaking the AI". The errors are not the result of improper "{Alt}{tab}ing", nor the result of bad drivers. It results from anyone having a video card with less than 128 megs of RAM (and even that only gives you a 50/50 chance of being able to run @#$ thing)!

It's quite apparent that no beta testing was done before this "release" was shoved out the door. If this is any indication of what this studio is capable of producing, then I suggest that next time they attempt to hire programmers that were not asleep during "Introduction to C/C++" class!

vmxa1 · March 17, 2003, 14:33

Kahn, the game will not crash if you use Cntrl-Alt-Esc when you come back to the game and get the direct x msg. I use the windows key to bounce out of Moo3 and come back many times each day and have never had it crash using those keys. I have had the game all day without a single crash.

Kahn · March 17, 2003, 15:04

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
Kahn, the game will not crash if you use Cntrl-Alt-Esc when you come back to the game and get the direct x msg. I use the windows key to bounce out of Moo3 and come back many times each day and have never had it crash using those keys. I have had the game all day without a single crash.

Apparently you have failed to read the posts on this subject. WE don't give a @#$%& about the DX problem your talking about (otherwise know as the "recoverable"error. The code consistantly crashes the program to desktop once it has faied to recycle enough pointers to the DirectDrawSurfaces.

Hopefully, you are just trying to help. If so, I'm sorry for comming down on you so hard, it's just several of us who have complained about the problem keep getting the same, stupid, idiotic advise from non-programmers trying to explain away a problem that is clearly contained within the code as if it were a figment of our imaginations!

Alex-C · March 17, 2003, 15:21

I have a Voodoo3 3000, which is significantly less than 128mb ram, and my copy works like a treat, so your accusation toward that system specification was a little inaccurate

Kahn · March 17, 2003, 15:24

Are you running Windows 98 too.

(This was the only exception to the 128 meg rule we could find in our research.)

Eric S · March 17, 2003, 16:03

Well, I'm another exception, I guess. I've never had any crash/hang with MoO3 except for the DirectX surface error relating to Alt-Tabbing. I'm running Win2K and a GF3 video card with 64MB, I believe, and I've played 15 hours straight without a problem. I do have 512MB RAM if that might be a useful datapoint. (Just trying to be helpful, the more data points collected, the more obvious the problem may appear).