The papers say, "Bush incompetent". - Page 3

Agathon · March 16, 2003, 02:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

The liar paradox is one of the things I laughed at in the logic classes. It's one of the things the philosophy students found profound and everyone else chanted "DUH!".

Yeah - because they could see that it f***s up language. Apparently, you could not.

Asher · March 16, 2003, 02:18

I can see that it does, that's the "DUH" part.

Asher · March 16, 2003, 02:20

There are plenty of things that screw up language.

Language isn't perfect, it's far from it, and suddenly a liar's paradox is profound.

cia · March 16, 2003, 02:21

Here's the paradox the rest of the world proposes to America:
Lead by consensus.

cinch · March 16, 2003, 02:26

Quote:

Burn the flag of Alberta!!!!

Noooo! It's too... majestic?

DanS · March 16, 2003, 02:33

I have never met a more internecine group than Canadians. What's the deal?

notyoueither · March 16, 2003, 02:34

Pure, unadulterated, hatred of t**ts.

Imran Siddiqui · March 16, 2003, 02:42

Then why do you elect them?

DanS · March 16, 2003, 02:42

java4me · March 16, 2003, 03:40

Let me get back on topic...

I think that Bush is screwing us up politically and economically. In the beginning I had a little sympathy for the guy, but now I can't wait until the 2004 election, so that I can vote him out of office.

I do think that a dictator like Saddam should go but Bush is doing this in a "cowboy" fashion; and when Americans act that way the rest of the world hates them and you see a lot of anti-american sentiment.

He is screwing up our ties to key allies like France, Germany, Russia, and China which isn't good for long term relations. There are also other things to worry about like North Korea who is the little guy who is poking the US. I find that they are far more dangerous than Iraq. But with Bush's warmongering, things could get ugly.

For the economic side, or economy has been getting deeper and deeper into the hole. The unemployment rate is increasing and with thousands of reservists going to Iraq, they are leaving their normal jobs. Bush did lower taxes which could cause people to buy more, but if you are unemployed, why would you buy more?

Just some of my views on Bush...

There are lots more, but if I write more, no one would read it!

notyoueither · March 16, 2003, 04:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Then why do you elect them?

Well, you've got me there.

Berzerker · March 16, 2003, 06:26

Agathon -

Quote:

Yeah - he's like the Grand Dragon on holiday in Africa complaining about the ********. Wouldn't the Africans just love that.

Are you going to back that up?

Oerdin · March 16, 2003, 06:40

China and Russia are not allies; they are competetors.

Urban Ranger · March 16, 2003, 08:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
China and Russia are not allies; they are competetors.

GWB said the same thing about the US and the PRC right after he was elected. He did an about face really fast.

Lincoln · March 16, 2003, 10:01

The papers said that Hitler was a great guy, Stalin was a hero and Nevil Chamberlin was a wise negotiator. So what is the point? Do you believe everything that is published in an editorial?

March 16, 2003, 11:03

Actually there is nothing published in papers that is not designed to titilate and enrage.

How else are they going to extract money from dullards.

KrazyHorse · March 16, 2003, 11:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Then why do you elect them?

Asked by an American?

Hoo boy.

KrazyHorse · March 16, 2003, 11:04

Zylka and Ag fighting. Who'd have thought it?

Urban Ranger · March 16, 2003, 12:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Lincoln
The papers said that Hitler was a great guy, Stalin was a hero and Nevil Chamberlin was a wise negotiator. So what is the point? Do you believe everything that is published in an editorial?

Ah yes, the Hitler reference again.

curtsibling · March 16, 2003, 12:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
China and Russia are not allies; they are competetors.

I'm glad someone can see it.

PS
Bush is the worst president the USA has had in years.

I love America.
But I am sad that many good people in the states are being blackmailed into silence,
due to the fact that their loyalty to the the union appears to require loyalty to the Chief.

This is not so.

It is how the United States was born and part of what it is that
requires vigilence and the questioning of the men in power.

It is not for a Britisher like me to tell an American he should watch his leaders closely.
An American should be born with this mindset!

Long may the USA be indestructible.

And down with Bush and his cohorts.

Agathon · March 16, 2003, 12:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
There are plenty of things that screw up language.

Language isn't perfect, it's far from it, and suddenly a liar's paradox is profound.

Well it's nice to see someone with no curiosity and no sense of intellectual cleanliness, but there you go.

Agathon · March 16, 2003, 12:47

Back on topic after the childish Tory threadjack.

Democratic Presidential hopefuls are apparently having a tough time of it this week, being jeered for their support of the war. I must say it makes me laugh.

Willem · March 16, 2003, 13:11

Quote:

Originally posted by GePap
Ross Perot was brutally honest too: perhaps you care to elect him?

What is so astonishing is, had this admin. never stated that it was wiling to go at it alone, but instead had from the beginning sought to unify the world not in the aim of disarmement but regime change in Iraq, today evrything would be so much better. Sometime its not only what you intend to do, but how you do it that matters.

I agree with you. If Bush and Co. had the least bit of a diplomatic sense, we wouldn't be in this mess we're in now. If they're not happy with the international response, they have largely their own blundering to thank for that.

Rumsfeld = Open mouth to change feet! Bush should have let Powell do all the international negotiations, there would have been much less resistance to their proposals. At least he has some diplomatic savvy.

Shi Huangdi · March 16, 2003, 13:18

BTW the Washington Post does support the US position on this one and believes forceful disarming of Hussein is nessecary. I don't think you can blame Bush or some of the hostility towards his action though, I don't see what he could have done otherwise. I honestly think Europe had it in for GWB as soon as he took office. He was seen as super pro -death penalty candidate, and he was staunch in refusing to sign the international treaties that would have limited our soverignty such as Kyoto or the ICC. Standing up for American and her interests isn't nessecarily going to be a popular task, but i am still glad Bush is up for the job.

HazieDaVampire · March 16, 2003, 13:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000

And that would be good in politics if this were the imperial age

You mean the imperial age ended? Have we really stoped invading countrys to take their resources?

At the moment its like a civ3 game when you've just researched oil and discover you have none!

Agathon · March 16, 2003, 13:32

Shi, while I oppose the war, that's not really what this thread is about.

I've been saying for a while now that the Bush administration is incompetent when it comes to foreign policy. I don't see how this is a partisan issue: indeed I was hoping this would be a non-partisan thread, but it was threadjacked by pro-war forces

.

I don't agree with Bush's policy aims but I think that he could have done a lot better than he has done. Here's a few examples of serious blunders.

1) The "Axis of Evil" speech. This has been the cause of a ratcheting up of tensions with North Korea and Iran when the US is not in a position to bring its full strength to bear upon them. He didn't have to say anything about this and would have been better served by shutting up until the US had dealt with Iraq and was in a stronger position. If international relations is to a large part a poker game, then he failed on this one.

2) Going to the UN and announcing that war would happen no matter what. As someone else said this is attempting to reconcile a fundamentally multilateralist organisation with a unilateralist policy. He would have been better off never going at all (we can say this with certainty now) or going and accepting compromises. Now he has the worst of both worlds.

3) Alienating his closest ally. Blair has worked really hard for Bush and has put his own political life on the line for Bush's Iraq policy. Then right at the point when Blair is at his weakest, Rumsfeld comes out and says that they don't need him anyway. Nice one.

In IR we all have to make compromises. Bush seems to think he doesn't. One result of this is that the US is going to find it difficult to rally international support for other things (like reconstructing Iraq) and drive its allies towards other powers (what if NATO disbands and the Europeans take up with Russia? - far fetched but not impossible). The US has allies because they are useful, alienating them is divesting yourself of useful assets.

Agathon · March 16, 2003, 13:35

Quote:

Originally posted by HazieDaVampire

You mean the imperial age ended? Have we really stoped invading countrys to take their resources?

At the moment its like a civ3 game when you've just researched oil and discover you have none!

Yeah - I've found it strange that a load of experienced civ players cannot see that a power might find control of strategic resources and geography to be in it's interests.

However, it looks like the diplomatic and space race victories are out of the question for the US given recent events.

HazieDaVampire · March 16, 2003, 13:39

"10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, oh ****, the astronaughts been stoped by security, ah, he has has some semtex in his shoe, looks like America won't make it to alpha centuri after all"

Agathon · March 16, 2003, 15:25

Quote:

Originally posted by HazieDaVampire
"10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, oh ****, the astronaughts been stoped by security, ah, he has has some semtex in his shoe, looks like America won't make it to alpha centuri after all"

HazieDaVampire · March 16, 2003, 15:28

yeah, i'm proud of that one.