Post-War Iraq: Should we help? - Page 2

faded glory · March 17, 2003, 11:29

you guys seem to forget. Iraq is a very wealthy country, once sanctions are lifted.It wont take long for Iraq to return to a good economy like the early 80's...very little international aid will be needed (Mostly humanitarian). Bush has said, any rebuilding of the infrastucture would be paid for by Iraqi Oil. So this is really a non-issue.

I imagine tho that the Iraqi National Congress will not look kindly on France and Germany.

The Mad Monk · March 17, 2003, 11:34

Don't call us, we'll call you.

The Mad Monk · March 17, 2003, 11:36

From earlier news, the Kurds have already stated that France should not expect any contracts with them.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...4-095811-8865r

Bereta_Eder · March 17, 2003, 11:38

Actually the rebuilding of Iraq (after it has been demolished - what a joke) will cost huge. (some place it even in the 100 bil. dollars)
Bush simply ignores it and his past record in Afganistan is deardful.

No Iraqi wants to see its countrmen slaughtered so I doubt they'll have any feelings for France and Germany different from what they'd save for the US.

And it is clear that the Kurds are endangered by the American invasion.

Kropotkin · March 17, 2003, 11:41

If the US attacks without backing from the UN it wouldn't be more than fair that the US will have to pick up the tab for all. However, this is not just about diplomacy. Considering that the US doesn't seem to be any good at peace keeping we have to take the populations fates into consideration. It wouldn't be good if they turn the country into another West Bank and leaves as soon as it gets tough due to popular demand from home. If the global community can take resources to pick up the peaces in countries as Cambodia it could do the same in Iraq even if it's the worlds superpower that's partly responsible to the situation. (yes obviously Saddam Hussein is the one to blame but there's no chance he'll do anything about the situation).

Urban Ranger · March 17, 2003, 11:51

I don't think there will be any rebuilding. Once Hussein is removed, all hell will break loose in Iraq. Some possible scenarioes include:

- warlords, former Iraqi generals, grab land
- massive civil wars between various religious factions
- Kurds rebel, Turkish military comes in to crush the attempt

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 12:05

"all hell will break loose in Iraq"

I think those struggles won't be carried out openly as long as the US occupies Iraq.

Urban Ranger · March 17, 2003, 12:07

It depends. Take Afghanistan for example.

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 12:11

Well the US has not actually occupied Afghanistan.

In Iraq that's a dilemma:

- take full control and have your soldiers on a silver plate for regional fundy terrorists

- just take strategic control and witness regular fightings

faded glory · March 17, 2003, 12:47

"It depends. Take Afghanistan for example."

Watched geraldo from Kabul the other day. Actually the people are very happy and alot of people are rebuilding. Warlords there are disarming. Afghanistan was a really good example of what needs to be done in Iraq to an extent. Despite what everybody at the time saying we could never do it.

Bereta_Eder · March 17, 2003, 13:05

Hardly. The situation in Afganistan is pretty much shitty.

Also the Europeans are quite dismayed at Bush's lack of commitment there.

GePap · March 17, 2003, 13:10

Yeah, faded glory, geraldo from Kabul..I wonder why Kabul, and lets say, not Herat? Afghanistan is not the example to push for Iraq.

As for the rebuilding: I am sure the US will try to maintain a monopoly (as the list of companies shows). I doubt there is much money to be made from Iraq besides the oil, but it will take years and billions of dollars of investements to get Iraq's oil production not only back to were it once was, but were it can get to. I think Cerberus is correct..if the Us keeps other states out, then the impression of imperialism and creating some sort of mercantalist colony will only grow. Also, so many corporations are so huge and internartional, it is impossible to keep the French out, if you let any really big corporations in.

axi · March 17, 2003, 13:24

It is certain that all reconstruction will be contracted to US and UK firms. It is also certain that all reconstruction will be paid with Iraqi oil. Oil which will be sold dirt cheap to US oil companies. Also the bombs that will destroy the infrastructure will be replaced by new shipments, also made by US firms. Hence, the more they bomb, the more $$$ they get.

Isn't that good business, or what?

Expect to see Iraq devastated and targets struck for no reason whatsoever. Let's hope that no medical companies want to open business in the ME, cause we might see hospitals being bombed as well.

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 13:30

"It is certain that all reconstruction will be contracted to US and UK firms."

UK? Bush & co will screw UK companies whereever they can.

Bereta_Eder · March 17, 2003, 13:33

Yes.

Ned · March 17, 2003, 13:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld

I thought we where talking about Iraq here... one of the most modern and progressive nations in the region (not that that's saying much), and a place that will soon be ruled by the US military, or whichever enterprising dictator they think they can trust.

Just look at Saudi Arabia or Israel to see how much peace and freedom USA support brings.

Iraqis have lived under repression and will continue to live under repression, a few interludes of bombing and war isn't going to help their situation any.

EDIT: To emphasize my point, and to keep on topic

: I don't think Iraqis will be grateful towards anyone in this war, and they are going to be pretty pissed off with the west in general (I do not think they will differentiate between france and the USA, they are all playing games with them and deciding their fate). Rebuilding their homes after you blow them up isn't going to make them feel any better.

Actually, you don't seem to get or watch American news channels. The Iraqi opposition has made many appearances on TV. They all say they they will remember the people who helped them liberate their country.

I would sincerely doubt whether the Iraqi's will even entertain bids from French and German companies.

Aside from this, I understand the US is willing to commit billions to help rebuild Iraq from 20+ years of Saddam. Those contract should largely go to US companies, IMO.

I only hope that Bush keeps the UN out of Iraq. Otherwise, we will see the usual hash of things. Money will line the pockets of UN bureaucrats as they "decide" who gets the contracts.

Actually, come to think of it, I'd like to see just how much Blix has made off of being kind to Saddam.

faded glory · March 17, 2003, 14:04

"Hardly. The situation in Afganistan is pretty much shitty. "

Where have you been? What have you been watching? Where do you get your news? Wage-Slave? Judiast priest, you and your kind are so brainwashed on these issue's by Leftist Propaganda. Provide some proof things are 'Shitty'. I dont see any, I see afghan's rebuilding, I see on AP reports of thousands of militia coming out of the mountains and disarming and warlords meeting at the Loya Jirga next year. I see the king Zahir Shah and Karzai saying reconstruction is going at a good pace and that there is relative peace at the moment. I dont see afghanistan as a Terrorist Base anymore...Do you? I dont see mass-executions the Taliban used to keep people in-line. I dont see women slaves anymore....

So stfu. Either you guys are just trolling or you truly believe this stuff. In case of the latter, I feel really bad for your ignorance on the subject. And Im more than happy Bush isnt listening to you on the Iraqi issue. You have shown your true colors, the colors of anti-american/ anti-freedom

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 14:08

You forgot ia Hekmatyar and co in that rosy picture.

Bereta_Eder · March 17, 2003, 14:09

Actually the one who lives in a media censorship is you.

faded glory · March 17, 2003, 14:14

"You forgot a Hekmatyar and co in that rosy picture."

Oh yes, the mouse that roared..but is afraid to bite.

"Actually the one who lives in a media censorship is you."

Ya right...CNN, FOX, MSNBC, ABC, AP, Rueters.... real news! Real Censorship!

What do you watch on one of your 3 channels? Greek Public radio live on TV?

Bereta_Eder · March 17, 2003, 14:16

Pretty much all of the american media have fallen pretty much in line. Thus the censorship you're under.

I get both american and european chanels.

Drake Tungsten · March 17, 2003, 14:17

The question isn't whether France or Germany will help rebuild Iraq, but whether or not the US will allow them to. I for one hope that we don't allow our enemies anywhere near Iraq...

faded glory · March 17, 2003, 14:18

Oh and another thing for the spineless cowards in Europe who think Saddam can be contained... You dont contain him, WE (US & UK), DO. We Pay upfront, we keep thousands of troops in the region, We patrol the No-Fly Zones, We enforce sanctions. Not You! France left the table long ago...YOU dont have any say in it. They arent your troops, it isnt your billions of dollars.

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 14:18

"CNN, FOX, MSNBC, ABC, AP, Rueters"

So you get all your news from "Fantasyworlds r us".

Bereta_Eder · March 17, 2003, 14:19

But it IS our planet.

And we don't want your dollars or planes.

Bereta_Eder · March 17, 2003, 14:19

FOX in particular is very underestimated as a major entertainment source.

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 14:20

I was addicted to FOX when I could recieve it. Needed my 10 minutes fix daily.

faded glory · March 17, 2003, 14:21

"But it IS our planet. "

That is an ignorant way of looking at the world...

"And we don't want your dollars or planes."

You wont get them, and we dont need you. So get out of the way.

faded glory · March 17, 2003, 14:23

puhllleasse.

"Fantasyworlds r us".

Oh speaking of fantasyworld r us. How about germany "If there is a 1% chance of peace, we must have 100% effort"

All of a sudden Shroeder is a true Ghandi!

What a joke!

...."Inspections not war"!

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 14:24

Better than the Bush admin's ""If there is a 1% chance of peace, we must make a 100% effort to destroy that chance".