Post-War Iraq: Should we help? - Page 3

Bereta_Eder · March 17, 2003, 14:27

Much better.

faded glory · March 17, 2003, 14:29

Better than the Bush admin's ""If there is a 1% chance of peace, we must make a 100% effort to destroy that chance".

That approach is more logical. Cause while your arm-chair diplomats are talking abotu flower power and inspections, Saddam's troops are digging themselves into the center of the earth knowing the whole things a joke.

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 14:32

You did not include Jules Verne in your news sources report...

Bereta_Eder · March 17, 2003, 14:33

Verne is more credible in comparison.

faded glory · March 17, 2003, 14:35

Nice...dont respond to my points. Go back a few pages and talk about something else.

Go wave your red flags hippies, see if the people who matter pay any attention.I hate hippies I shoot them with my paintball gun.

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 14:38

You're so rugged.

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 14:39

Points? Which ones?

badman · March 17, 2003, 15:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
The question isn't whether France or Germany will help rebuild Iraq, but whether or not the US will allow them to. I for one hope that we don't allow our enemies anywhere near Iraq...

It really makes me sad to read that. How come the Americans consider Germans and Frenchs (and the rest of the world, by the way, not counting Spain and a couple of Eastern European countries) as enemies just because they won't back a war that isn't justified in their opinion?
That is dangerous black-and-white-thinking IMHO.

I think that Europe should help the US with the rebuilding of Iraq.
But if they don't want our help I won't mind.

BTW: The US won't ensure deomcracy in Iraq. The Iraqis probably would elect a muslim fundamentalist who would turn the country into another dictatorship (an even more dangerous one since Saddam at least isn't a muslim fundamentalist).
Installing democracy in Germany after WW2 only worked because their ideology was completely destroyed as well. They knew that they had also lost in terms of morality so they didn't oppose the Americans but tried to adapt the new system.
In contrast to that, the Iraqis dislike, if not hate, the West (because of the sanctions, because of the Palestinian problem, because the different religion and culture) and they won't cooperate with the West.
So the new government will definitely be a dictatorship, too.

Nubclear · March 17, 2003, 15:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
The question isn't whether France or Germany will help rebuild Iraq, but whether or not the US will allow them to. I for one hope that we don't allow our enemies anywhere near Iraq...

You would rather the Iraqi people recieve food, clothing, and water from only one source as opposed to many?

Harovan · March 17, 2003, 15:13

Tass: Didn't you know, that I was up to spend money through the Red Cross out of pure greed? I wanted to secure rich oil and reconstruction contracts this way

. Good that Uncle Sam watches over us

and won't let me commit this atrocity.

The Americans, OTOH, are up to bomb Iraq and slaughter thousands of civilians out of pure love for peace and democracy

. They aren't greedy not a bit.

Nubclear · March 17, 2003, 15:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Tass: Didn't you know, that I was up to spend money through the Red Cross out of pure greed? I wanted to secure rich oil and reconstruction contracts this way

. Good that Uncle Sam watches over us

and won't let me commit this atrocity.

The Americans, OTOH, are up to bomb Iraq and slaughter thousands of civilians out of pure love for peace and democracy

. They aren't greedy not a bit.

Drake Tungsten · March 17, 2003, 15:35

Quote:

It really makes me sad to read that. How come the Americans consider Germans and Frenchs (and the rest of the world, by the way, not counting Spain and a couple of Eastern European countries) as enemies just because they won't back a war that isn't justified in their opinion?
That is dangerous black-and-white-thinking IMHO.

There's a huge difference between not backing a war and actively opposing the US on it. France and Germany stopped being our friends months ago and are little better than Russia, China and Syria in my book. When you actively oppose the US, you make yourself our enemies...

Drake Tungsten · March 17, 2003, 15:37

Quote:

You would rather the Iraqi people recieve food, clothing, and water from only one source as opposed to many?

There'll be many sources of aid, not just the US. There are other nations in the coalition of the willing and humanitarian NGO's will be allowed in as well. There's no need to let the French and Germans in...

Ned · March 17, 2003, 16:11

Also, just imagine what the French and German would be saying to the Iraqi's? They would be formenting an anti-American revolution.

Drake is right. One cannot allow the enemy on the ground to conduct or forment revolution and hate.

Harovan · March 17, 2003, 16:23

Guess it's time then to pull out our peacekeepers out of Kabul too. Let the yanks clean up their mess themselves.

Shi Huangdi · March 17, 2003, 16:27

The Afghanistan situation is acceptable because the warlords there are pro-US and anti-Taliban. As far as post-war Iraq, it is important no contracts to rebuilding Iraq to France or Germany, though I suppose if they wanted to send peacekeepers that'd be ok. I'd prefer any help we get come from countries other than France and Germany though...

Drake Tungsten · March 17, 2003, 16:44

Quote:

I'd prefer any help we get come from countries other than France and Germany though...

Agreed.

oedo · March 17, 2003, 17:18

any suggestions who will be allowed to pay for the **** you're going to bring out then?
Israel? Bulgaria? Turkey? Cameroon?...

face it. if France and Germany won´t help, no one will.

General Ludd · March 17, 2003, 17:21

Quote:

Originally posted by faded glory
That approach is more logical. Cause while your arm-chair diplomats are talking abotu flower power and inspections, Saddam's troops are digging themselves into the center of the earth knowing the whole things a joke.

I could of sworn that just an hour ago you said that most of the Iraqi army is going to surrender first chance it gets.

General Ludd · March 17, 2003, 17:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
The Afghanistan situation is acceptable because the warlords there are pro-US and anti-Taliban.

Wow, you people just keep geting scarier and scarier.

That's goin' in my sig.

Harovan · March 17, 2003, 17:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
Wow, you people just keep geting scarier and scarier.

Leaning back with a beer and some chips (made in America, btw) and reading their hate tirades, I find them amusing.

Drake Tungsten · March 17, 2003, 18:05

It's not hate, but rather a profound sense of sadness and resentment that results from being stabbed in the back by countries we thought were our friends...

DanS · March 17, 2003, 18:06

Personally, I would want the French and Germans to contribute some dough, since any rebuilding money is coming directly from my pocket.

The way these things will work is that any money put in is spent on contracts for companies from your own country. French and German companies might be locked out of some of the more lucrative aspects of the oil industry, but if the French or German governments want to pay their own way, I wouldn't want to turn them down.

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 18:06

"a profound sense of sadness and resentment that results from being stabbed in the back by countries we thought were our friends..."

The feeling is mutual.

Drake Tungsten · March 17, 2003, 18:09

Quote:

The feeling is mutual.

How did the US stab Old Europe in the back?

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 18:12

The rest of the world, not just old europe. By ramming through an illegal war that will come around to bite us in the ass, just for an example.

DanS · March 17, 2003, 18:14

Don't you mean illegitimate, Hershell? I think we're on sufficient legal ground.

Drake Tungsten · March 17, 2003, 18:15

That's being ignored, not being stabbed in the back...

DAVOUT · March 17, 2003, 18:17

We do not expect our friends to necessarily agree with us when we raise a problem, and we do not reject them as enemies when they desagree. It seems that we were not friends after all.

Drake Tungsten · March 17, 2003, 18:20

Again, French behavior has gone far beyond mere disagreement with the US. Other countries, like Canada, disagree with the US but didn't go out and actively build opposition to the United States' wishes. That's why I still consider Canada our friend, while France is not...