Necessary Evil

Dis · March 17, 2003, 14:04

Please do not close this thread. This is not an Iraq thread specifically. This deals with war in general. And this is the first thread I have created about the subject. I do not create Iraq threads if you have noticed.

All War is Evil

So don't give me the excuse that this war is unjust. All war is unjust. And this includes WW2. Organized killing is wrong no matter how you see it. It has nothing to do with civilian deaths. Do you think it is right to kill all those military personnel who are not responsible for the war?

Killing military is no better than killing civilians

There I said it. The anti-war people want to protect the civilians. What about the miltary? They have done nothing wrong. Many of them are forced into that job, they are not volunteers.

Now you understand why war is inherantly evil, I will explain why some are necessary.

If our goal as a nation is to become a third war nation, then we should not go to war. We could live peacefully as a third world nation I'm sure. And believe me, we would be a third world nation. Americans are not very smart. In SMAC terms, we have a lot of drones.

Iraq poses no direct threat to the U.S.

There I said it. And I believe it. Yet I still believe this war is necessary. If we are to remain an elite superpower or hyperpower, we cannot surrender diplomatically to nations like Iraq. Iraq has beaten us diplomatically. They have outsmarted us. Saddam has done just enough to make him look like he's trying to follow the regulations. And I also believe it is highly unlikely they have any nuclear program whatsoever. And I doubt they have ever or will ever sold/sell biological/chemical weapons to terrorists. And the war isn't really about oil either because the oil wells will be blown up and those fields will not be available for a long time.

This is a matter of the U.S. losing to a nation like Iraq. We already lost diplomatically to Vietnam. If we are to remain the world's #1 nation, we have to flex our power.

What anti-war protestors don't realize, is we can't always do the right thing. Our country has very little manufacturing. Our economy is based on service industries and telecommunications and such. It is very fragile. If we fall from grace we will be little better than Mexico. Canada would the the leading country of the americas. The standard of living would be horrible. The standard of living is already so bad in inner cities. I'd hate to see it worse. And no, socialism would not work on a nation this large. I beleive socialism can work on smaller nations. But on large nations such as Russia, and the U.S., it has problems.

Because I support this war- this makes me evil. I have come to terms with that. I realize I'm an evil person. I am essentually supporting the deaths if Iraqi people (notice how I do not distinguish military and civilians), and the American/British people. There is no way to justify that.

Assassination is probably a better option. But for some reason that is not legal, and that is not an avenue that we can pursue.

This war is a necessary evil if we are to remain a superpower and not an impotent nation with a military we cannot use. Having a miltary is worthless if you cannot use it. When you are #1, people will continue to push you off the top. We have to be able to prevent that.

Japher · March 17, 2003, 14:07

You run a different line of logic, but you get to the same end as I do... Kudos

SlowwHand · March 17, 2003, 14:08

In America, you have a right to your opinion.
Paid for, in war.

Nubclear · March 17, 2003, 14:24

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowwHand
In America, you have a right to your opinion.
Paid for, in war.

So war must great, huh?

Az · March 17, 2003, 14:36

****ing stupid trolling, Tassadar.

I guess that the "Oteychestvenaya Voiyna" was wrong too.

And mind you, I am myself undecided about the war.

The Mad Monk · March 17, 2003, 14:36

Dissident, your reasoning is excellent -- as Tassadar just proved.

St Leo · March 17, 2003, 14:46

That's right. The US has landed itself in quicksand and is wiggling itself deeper in so as to hide the fact that it didn't mean to land in quicksand in the first place. Congratulations.

SlowwHand · March 17, 2003, 14:49

The fact is, nobody with a grain of sense likes war.
I don't like going to the dentist either, but sometimes it's necessary.

General Ludd · March 17, 2003, 14:52

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowwHand
The fact is, nobody with a grain of sense likes war.
I don't like going to the dentist either, but sometimes it's necessary.

Not if you take care of your teeth in the first place.

Ozz · March 17, 2003, 14:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
Not if you take care of your teeth in the first place.

"Jaw jaw is better than war war."

Winston S. Churchill

Nubclear · March 17, 2003, 14:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel
****ing stupid trolling, Tassadar.

All trolls are stupid, but if they can get people to respond....They are sucessful

Edit:

I just realized my troll was much better than I gave it credit for!!

Dis · March 17, 2003, 14:58

quicksand?

Bush has been planning this for a long time.

Anyone remember his comments 1 year ago? This was long before the push last Fall.

I knew it was coming. So you guys should have seen it coming.

He's not over his head. He knew exactly what he was doing when he got involved last fall.

Whether he succeeds or not remains to be seen.

Dis · March 17, 2003, 14:59

and sometimes even when you do take care of your teeth you still have to go to the dentist.

How's that analogy?

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 15:00

Unorthodox view, but interesting.

"Our country has very little manufacturing. Our economy is based on service industries and telecommunications and such. It is very fragile."

Yes, but militarism and warmongering only undermine it further.

SlowwHand · March 17, 2003, 15:01

Fits perfectly about paying a call on Mr. Hussein. Thanks.

"Never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room." another Churchill

Somehow, it fits.

General Ludd · March 17, 2003, 15:01

How about: You shouldn't use a sledge hammer to remove a sore tooth. It's better to fill in the cavity and carry on.

Nubclear · March 17, 2003, 15:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
How about: You shouldn't use a sledge hammer to remove a sore tooth. It's better to fill in the cavity and carry on.

Your avatar is highly erotic.

Ooh la la!!!

Dis · March 17, 2003, 15:07

well the war won't help the economy for sure.

Although if the oil fields are intact and prices drop to close to $10 a barrel that will help

. But I'm not counting on that.

This is for long term stability of the U.S. It won't do a whole lot for the economy, and will make it worse for the short term.

Dis · March 17, 2003, 15:09

I also believe this will be the last Republican president we have in a long time.

I want people to remember how we use force to ensure we stay on top. It isn't right. But if we want to stay on top it is necessary.

So when things go wrong in 2 years under democratic leadership, and they have a weak response. I want the average american to remember how republican use force to ensure dominance.

SlowwHand · March 17, 2003, 15:11

How about, "Why are Brits and Americans The Biggest Whiners?" .
I include Canada, even though they're like the butt-ugly red-headed stepchild.

Can't be education.
People come to America to learn Law, Medicine, even how to fly passenger planes.

Must be, educated to the point of stupid.

Nubclear · March 17, 2003, 15:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Dissident
I want the average american to remember how republican use force to ensure dominance.

Yes. Its unfortunate that some people haven't evolved to the point where they can use more peaceful methods to ensure dominance. Because in fact, it would acutally ensure dominence better because a superpower needs allies to survive.

Oh well, many years from now we can talk about how those redneck republicans missed out on human evolution, and eventually all died out

St Leo · March 17, 2003, 15:14

Bush has been planning this for a long time.

Anyone remember his comments 1 year ago? This was long before the push last Fall.

He wasn't planning this in 2000 though, right? If he was, he lied in his campaign.

So when things go wrong in 2 years under democratic leadership, and they have a weak response. I want the average american to remember how republican use force to ensure dominance.

Kosovo weak?

SlowwHand · March 17, 2003, 15:17

What Bush said, following 9-11, was wherever they're found.
That, on top of Hussein's blatant refusal to follow outlined resolution.

The Mad Monk · March 17, 2003, 15:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Dissident
I also believe this will be the last Republican president we have in a long time.

I want people to remember how we use force to ensure we stay on top. It isn't right. But if we want to stay on top it is necessary.

So when things go wrong in 2 years under democratic leadership, and they have a weak response. I want the average american to remember how republican use force to ensure dominance.

I don't know -- people thought Nixon / Ford would be the last Republican presence in the Oval Office for a long time, and it took only four years of Carter to convince them othewise.

Dis · March 17, 2003, 15:19

what I really wanted to illustrate is how people think military lives have less value than civilians.

People thought this war would be OK if we don't kill civilians. That is not right. Those Iraqis are forced to fight in some cases.

I'm also thinking about making a thread titled: Why are children's lives more important than an adult's? Should I make a seperate thread or discuss it here?

P.S. There is no peaceful way to ensure dominace. That should be obvious. Eventually countries will "test" you. To see if you belong at the top.

P.P.S. Good point about Carter. It shows how we cannot tolerate weak presidents whether they be democrats or republicans. Carters military response to Iran was weak. If we were going to use force, we should have took it a step further. That plan required too many things to go right for it to work.

HershOstropoler · March 17, 2003, 15:21

The Bushies wanted this war from the beginning, they just lacked a proper pretext.

As for last Republican - you're hopelessly underestimating the Democrats' ability to **** up.

Dis · March 17, 2003, 15:22

Kosovo didn't have U.N. support, did it?

I actually don't think Clinton was a weak president. He did a good job. And I was a liberal back then. I thought Clinton was god

. well not quite.

But aside from Lieberman, I don't see any decent democrats out there. They are all crap.

SlowwHand · March 17, 2003, 15:32

The only thing is, you can't have sex with your employees.
Bad choice of booty.

Dis · March 17, 2003, 15:36

yes, if you are going to break rules like that. It may as well be with a really hot chick ala JFK.

Dis · March 17, 2003, 15:40

just listening to Lieberman now on TV

This guy is pretty cool.

He should have ran for pres. Not Gore.