The Cino-Soviet-US triangle

The Andy-Man · March 17, 2003, 19:11

can anyone recomend be some books on Cino-soviet-US relations between 1945-1991??

I have looked on amazon, but there dosn't seem to be to much stuff lookiong at that relationship specificly.

ty

JCG · March 17, 2003, 19:47

IIRC, it's Sino, not Cino...

KrazyHorse · March 17, 2003, 19:48

That may be the reason you're having trouble finding stuff.

The Andy-Man · March 18, 2003, 13:30

probably

So, anybody know any?

Az · March 18, 2003, 13:37

No, but I agree that this is a very interesting Issue.

IMO, the split led to the fall of the SU, later on.

The Andy-Man · March 18, 2003, 13:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel
No, but I agree that this is a very interesting Issue.

IMO, the split led to the fall of the SU, later on.

Thats interesting, would you like to explain further your opinion?

Personaly, the Soviet-sino split was a great example of the splits in Socialist ideology. I mean, there are so many interpretations of how to spread marx's ideas, and even more so many interpretations on what he actually meant. Really, the USSR and PRC seemed to miss the point of co-operation.

Another group of Communists would have probably united the PRC and USSR is a 'Peaples Federated Republic' or something - as communism is internationalist.

ahenobarb · March 18, 2003, 14:10

I'd recommend Kissinger's "Diplomacy". It goes well beyond Sino-Soviet-Us relations during the period, but gives a very good understanding of what was going on.

Also, "A Preponderance of Power" by Melvyn P. Leffler goes in depth about the early US approach to both the USSR and Communist China.

You'll have a hard time finding a book on that subject that isn't overly specific (Sino-Soviet rift) or overly broad (Cold War history). I'd try to pin down a good all around Cold War history and read that, then decide what particular events interest you the most.

What I have studied were books about particular events or periods, rather than a broad compendium.

Nubclear · March 18, 2003, 14:13

The Sino-Soviet-US love triangle.

ahenobarb · March 18, 2003, 14:17

Quote:

Originally posted by The Andy-Man

Thats interesting, would you like to explain further your opinion?

Personaly, the Soviet-sino split was a great example of the splits in Socialist ideology. I mean, there are so many interpretations of how to spread marx's ideas, and even more so many interpretations on what he actually meant. Really, the USSR and PRC seemed to miss the point of co-operation.

Another group of Communists would have probably united the PRC and USSR is a 'Peaples Federated Republic' or something - as communism is internationalist.

States don't work together over broadly shared ideology, they work together because they have common interests (this was the mistake the US made at the beginning of the CW they thought the USSR & China were going to work closely together). The USSR (and the US) believed that they, the Soviet Union, were the Communist champions in the world and China should toe the line. China didn't want to play second fiddle to anyone.

Also China and the Vietnamese are traditional rivals, so China eventually cutoff USSR supplies going through China to Vietnam. The Russian had to ship everything in after that.

Sort of like France and the US today, the US sees itself as the leader of the free world. But France wants to assert its foreign policy independence. Or like the Ba'athist parties in Syria and Iraq: they split in the 50's because each saw themselves as the true leader of the movement.

The Andy-Man · March 18, 2003, 14:27

Quote:

Originally posted by ahenobarb

States don't work together over broadly shared ideology, they work together because they have common interests (this was the mistake the US made at the beginning of the CW they thought the USSR & China were going to work closely together). The USSR (and the US) believed that they were the Communist champions in the world and China should toe the line. China didn't want to play second fiddle to anyone.

Also China and the Vietnamese are traditional rivals, so China eventually cutoff USSR supplies going through China to Vietnam. The Russian had to ship everything in after that.

Sort of like France and the US today, the US sees itself as the leader of the free world. But France wants to assert its foreign policy independence. Or like the Ba'athist parties in Syria and Iraq: they split in the 50's because each saw themselves as the true leader of the movement.

I agree entirley, states co-operate through interests, not ideology. But communism is specificly an internationalist ideology, and i think the original idea of 'world communism' meant that 2 communist nations are one nation, if you see what i mean.

ahenobarb · March 18, 2003, 14:34

Quote:

Originally posted by The Andy-Man

I agree entirley, states co-operate through interests, not ideology. But communism is specificly an internationalist ideology, and i think the original idea of 'world communism' meant that 2 communist nations are one nation, if you see what i mean.

The original idea did mean that, but it was a false assumption. Check out "A prepondance of power" if you're interested in how that presumption came about. It may be a bit thick (cir. ~400 pags), but its a good read.

The Andy-Man · March 18, 2003, 14:45

Quote:

Originally posted by ahenobarb

The original idea did mean that, but it was a false assumption. Check out "A prepondance of power" if you're interested in how that presumption came about. It may be a bit thick (cir. ~400 pags), but its a good read.

400 pages thick, bah! I laugh a 400pages

I don' think it was a false assumption, its just very rarley has a (true) communist actually been in charge of a cummunist nation

ahenobarb · March 18, 2003, 14:50

Quote:

Originally posted by The Andy-Man

400 pages thick, bah! I laugh a 400pages

I don' think it was a false assumption, its just very rarley has a (true) communist actually been in charge of a cummunist nation

Yikes! I'll leave that hot potato alone.

Enjoy the book, it's really good.

Q Classic · March 18, 2003, 14:54

lots of books by white guys.

if you want something on sino-soviet relations from the chinese point of view, as well as more info about china, try Mao's China and the Cold War by Chen Jian.

ahenobarb · March 18, 2003, 15:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
lots of books by white guys.

if you want something on sino-soviet relations from the chinese point of view, as well as more info about china, try Mao's China and the Cold War by Chen Jian.

Here's a good white guy book on the same subject.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...473306-0392934