For your Info: I am a Muslim and RAW is a Muslim Only Clan

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by RAW_OmarBKhatab


Prophet Mohammed (saw) committed no sin. Can u provide proofs? Where u there?

And now, dont quote from Jewish/Christian sites made to defame Islam and Muslim. I want to see your own work and research from independent sources.

If u cannot provide it, ur effort of defaming Islam has failed like the effort of Jewish Shiias have failed.

Omar, you seem to be very hateful for someone who says he's a muslim.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Ooo, its like Civnation in muslim form!
Except, his posts were longer and more fun.

[Ben Kenobi]

A Muslim can act contrary to Gods will given God has given him the capability.

Raw_OmarBKhatab:

This is self-contradictory. If God gives man the capability to sin, then is not sin according to God's will?
How can man be held responsible for his actions if God wills him to sin?

And if God wills sin, how can God be all-Good?

And I dont think u know the power of your creator.

Upon what do you base this conclusion?
Do I need to post the Apostles' Creed?
"I believe in God the Father, creator of heaven and earth..."

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Lonestar


Omar, you seem to be very hateful for someone who says he's a muslim.

Bigot.

[Arrian]

[RAW_OmarBKhatab]

Originally posted by obiwan18


Raw_OmarBKhatab:

This is self-contradictory. If God gives man the capability to sin, then is not sin according to God's will?
How can man be held responsible for his actions if God wills him to sin?

And if God wills sin, how can God be all-Good?



Upon what do you base this conclusion?
Do I need to post the Apostles' Creed?
"I believe in God the Father, creator of heaven and earth..."

obiwan: Every good and every Bad happens because Allah permitted it to be. For Humans, Allah gave us the power of Judgment. So, although Allah gave us the capabilty of doing BAD deeds, it is upto us, if we will do it or not.

Allah is all powerfull and all knowing. The reason I said, u dont know the power of your creator is because, u are trying to LOGIC Allahs capabilty with ur Human capacity of Logic and reasoning. Allah and His Might is beyond any Logic.

Becasue, u keep trying to make sence that u cannot comprehend, u find utter contradictions....

I am sure, u are confused as ever before..... untill u revert to Islam and ponder up the creation of Allah.

There is One Way To The Creator.... and that is Islams Way

[RAW_OmarBKhatab]

Originally posted by Lonestar


Omar, you seem to be very hateful for someone who says he's a muslim.

Hatefull? How?

[RAW_OmarBKhatab]

Originally posted by Spectator


Hmmmm, who does? According to me, my creator was a bacteria and CO2....Where did that bacteria come from, I dont know...And if my creator is so powerful and all, why doesn't he show up or atleast show us that he exist.
Because he doesn't and religion is only something that was used, in the beginning, to control the population on how to act in a certain way.
You know why Jews dont eat porc? Well it's because at one time in history (dont know the year) porc had a disease that humans could get if they ate it. So for the population not to eat it, the priests said that God told them that is was a sin to eat porc. Problem solved.

So anything you tell me without CONCRETE proof I will not beleive.


Spec.

U dont have to believe me. I did not come here to make any one believe anything. I came here to share what We Muslims believe in. U dont have to agree.... and I am not even dreaming of it. Muslims dont eat pork becasue Allah told us not to. No other reason needed.

Islam is to Listen and to obey. Submission to the will of Allah. No reason or logic needed

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


Bigot.

I'm bigoted to that Fosters swill you call beer.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by RAW_OmarBKhatab


Hatefull? How?

Doesn't the Qur'an teach that you should be kind to others? Where does it teach that Jews are cursed and and Shi'ia's are not Muslims?

[RAW_OmarBKhatab]

Originally posted by Lonestar


Doesn't the Qur'an teach that you should be kind to others? Where does it teach that Jews are cursed and and Shi'ia's are not Muslims?

Jews are cursed and Shiia are not Muslims. Its not teaching, its facts, like Night comes after day, and day follows the night.

Consult an Ulima to find out how. If I explain u, It will not be acceptable by you. U will find something new to argue with.


Claming Jews are cursed is not being "unkind" to them. It is an Islamic point of view. If u would check in history books, Jewish community suffered the least while under Islamic Empire. While Christians where killing Jews all over the world in Europre, they found safe heavens in Muslim countries. And, etc etc [read History books... too long for this post etc etc]


Shiia are not Muslims, is to refute the Jewish westurn media claim that shiia are Muslims. Abdullah Ibn Saba, a Jewish scholar created shiiaism back about 1400 years, during the time of Kholifa Ali(ra). Speaking the truth about shia is not unkind.

U may have a different idea of being kind and loving. Like killing children and women while trying to kill enemy soilders are kind? and loving? when u are trying "free" them from the tyrunt?

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by RAW_OmarBKhatab



Jews are cursed and Shiia are not Muslims. Its not teaching, its facts, like Night comes after day, and day follows the night.

Consult an Ulima to find out how. If I explain u, It will not be acceptable by you. U will find something new to argue with.


Claming Jews are cursed is not being "unkind" to them. It is an Islamic point of view. If u would check in history books, Jewish community suffered the least while under Islamic Empire. While Christians where killing Jews all over the world in Europre, they found safe heavens in Muslim countries. And, etc etc [read History books... too long for this post etc etc]


Shiia are not Muslims, is to refute the Jewish westurn media claim that shiia are Muslims. Abdullah Ibn Saba, a Jewish scholar created shiiaism back about 1400 years, during the time of Kholifa Ali(ra). Speaking the truth about shia is not unkind.

U may have a different idea of being kind and loving. Like killing children and women while trying to kill enemy soilders are kind? and loving? when u are trying "free" them from the tyrunt?

The Qur'an is the word of God, as passed down to the Prophet Mohammed, right? Therefore, I repeat, where in the Qur'an does it say this stuff you're saying? Or is it just that "Collection" ( ) of Mohammed's sayings that one of the Caliphs made up to justify the slaughter of the Jews of Baghdad?

Incidently, I don't know why the Jewish Media would be trying to help the Shi'ia's, as the Iranians (Shiites) back Hezbollah which is Israel's biggest problem after the PLO.

Killing children is a horrible, horrible thing. But you know what makes the United States better than Iraq, and sadly, much of the muslim world?

We go out of our way to avoid hitting non-combatants. Muslim "warriors" cheerfully blow up school buses and destroy non-military buildings.

[Ben Kenobi]

Allah and His Might is beyond any Logic.

Fair enough. However, this does not rule out us trying to understand how God works. Why else would God give us a capacity to reason, and to make decisions for ourselves? God allows us to make mistakes from an ignorant conscience, but encourages us to become informed so that we will know what is right, and will do so.

Just because I am trying to understand God does not mean that I render his power less, it is making full use of the capacity God has given me.

The interaction between God's foreknowledge and the free will of man is a problem for Christians as well as Muslims. However, we differ in our explanations. While you accredit sin to God, we say that sin is a result of the choices man has made.

Where does sin originate, Omar?

While Christians where killing Jews all over the world in Europre, they found safe heavens in Muslim countries.

Forgive me, but I would like to see evidence of such havens for Jews. Do Jews find safe haven in Muslim countries today?

Like killing children and women while trying to kill enemy soilders are kind? and loving? when u are trying "free" them from the tyrunt?

You assume all Christians support the war. This is not so. Even the Pope spoke out against the war.

Jews are cursed and Shiia are not Muslims.

Why are Jews cursed? For rejecting their prophet?
Can a Jew be redeemed, within his faith?

This is one difference between Christians and Muslims today. Christians acknowledge our debt to the Jews, and that we are 'ingrafted branches' in the tree of life. Muslims deny that the large portion of what they believe, they owe to the Jews.

Do you not share many prophets?

[JCG]

So shouldn't the Sunnis have very poor relations with Iran then?

Another thing...Isn't the Quran the only guide for Muslims? Then why do many of you guys refer to external Hadith and Sunnas? That seems to contradict 012:111, 031:006 and a lot of other suras....

It seems like most believers (of all religions, including Christianity) fail to follow their own rules to the letter....

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by RAW_OmarBKhatab



Jews are cursed and Shiia are not Muslims.

Bigot.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Alex: It's not nice to call yourself names. Seriously, the quote was that Mohammod was sinless there for it is not bigotory to point out that he did a great many things (murder, had sex with a child, possibly abused drugs) which most religions would consider sinful.

I'm not religious and my interest is in historical accuracy and proving religious dogma (he was sinless) wrong.

Can you provide some sort of substantiation of these claims Oerdin?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Bigot.

A bot has taken control of AH's computer !

[GePap]

Do you not share many prophets?

The Q'uran recognizes most of the mayor Jewish prophets, and Christ, as prophets of God. I don't know which teahcers Omar listens to, but it is obvious that most modern Imans and Mullahs are sadly stuck using 12th and 13th century interpretations. that si the great sad thing about Islam today: islam was abeacon of civ. when its holly men were actively studying and annalysing the wrod of God. The second they decided that somehow they figured it out, well, thats when things begin to degrade.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Spectator


Hmmmm, who does? According to me, my creator was a bacteria and CO2....Where did that bacteria come from, I dont know...And if my creator is so powerful and all, why doesn't he show up or atleast show us that he exist.
Because he doesn't and religion is only something that was used, in the beginning, to control the population on how to act in a certain way.
You know why Jews dont eat porc? Well it's because at one time in history (dont know the year) porc had a disease that humans could get if they ate it. So for the population not to eat it, the priests said that God told them that is was a sin to eat porc. Problem solved.

So anything you tell me without CONCRETE proof I will not beleive.


Spec.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by RAW_OmarBKhatab



U dont have to believe me. I did not come here to make any one believe anything. I came here to share what We Muslims believe in. U dont have to agree.... and I am not even dreaming of it. Muslims dont eat pork becasue Allah told us not to. No other reason needed.

Islam is to Listen and to obey. Submission to the will of Allah. No reason or logic needed

I find that your willingness to accept things on completely blind faith is sad... foolish even.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by obiwan18


Raw_OmarBKhatab:

This is self-contradictory. If God gives man the capability to sin, then is not sin according to God's will?
How can man be held responsible for his actions if God wills him to sin?

And if God wills sin, how can God be all-Good?



Upon what do you base this conclusion?
Do I need to post the Apostles' Creed?
"I believe in God the Father, creator of heaven and earth..."

In Christianity, God gave Man free will... in an essence, doesnt this mean he gave them the ability to sin? By the Same token of your logic, your God can not be all-Good (i dont even believe in an absolute good anyway... its all relative).

[Ramo]

Jews are cursed and Shiia are not Muslims.

Gee, aren't you precious.

[Ben Kenobi]

in an essence, doesnt this mean he gave them the ability to sin? By the Same token of your logic, your God can not be all-Good.

I said:
"we say that sin is a result of the choices man has made."

Sin entered the world through Adam's decision to trust the serpent over God.

While God did give Adam the ability to make moral decisions, it cannot be the fault of God when man chooses to sin, since man has the option to choose what is right. Under the Muslim argument, this choice is unavailable, since they deny the concept of original sin. By doing so, the origin of sin must be God, and not the decisions of Man.

[DinoDoc]

Jews are cursed

You do realize that your violating the word of the Koran by making such idiotic statements, don't you?

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

Quote:

Jews are cursed

You do realize that your violating the word of the Koran by making such idiotic statements, don't you?

No, he doesn't.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lonestar
No, he doesn't.

How sad that the people here know more Islamic law than an actual Muslim.

"O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none but god; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, lords and patrons other than God. (3:64)

[Ramo]

Shiia are not Muslims, is to refute the Jewish westurn media claim that shiia are Muslims. Abdullah Ibn Saba, a Jewish scholar created shiiaism back about 1400 years, during the time of Kholifa Ali(ra). Speaking the truth about shia is not unkind.

How exactly did this person create a power struggle over the leadership of the Caliphate?

Claming Jews are cursed is not being "unkind" to them. It is an Islamic point of view.

I know plenty of Moslems who would disagree with your bigotted point of view (they're Sunni's BTW ). I'd be interested in seeing your justification.

[Ben Kenobi]

Dr. Strangelove

From the book
"Answering Islam."

by N. Geisler and A. Saleeh

p.171-172

POLYGAMY

" According to the Quran a man may have up to 4 wives."

Muhammad received a revelation from God that a man should have no more than four wives at one time, yet he had many more. A Muslim defender of Muhammad writing in the Prophet of Islam as the Ideal Husband, admitted thatt he had fourteen wives! Yet he told others they could have only four wives. How can someone be a perfect moral example for the whole human race and not even live by one of the basic laws he laid down as from God?

In addition to all this, we are asked to believe that God made a special exception to another divinely revealed law to give each wife her conjugal rights justly, that is to observe a fixed rotation among them. Muhammad insists that God told him that he could have whichever wife he wanted whe he wanted her: "Thou mayest defer the (the turn of) any of them that thou Pleasest, and thou mayest receive any thou pleasest."

FEMALE SERVANT BEATING

On one occasion Muhammad sanctioned the beating of a female servant in order to elicit the truth from her. Haykal reports that, "the servant was called in and Ali immediately seized her and struck her painfully and repeatedly as he commanded her to to tell the truth to the Prophet of God.

WIFE BEATING

According to the Q'uran, men can even beat their wives.
"Men are in charge of women because Allah hath made the one to excell the other...As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them"

TREATMENT OF UNBELIEVERS p.174

The punishment of those who wage war against God(unbelievers) And His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land.

CARAVAN RAIDING

Muhammed himself sanctioned his followers raiding of the commercial Meccan caravans. The Prophet himself led three such raids. Doubtless the purpose of the attacks was to obtain financial reward but also to impress the Meccans with the growing Muslim force.

FALSE WITNESS

Another time, Muhammad sanctioned a follower to lie to an enemy named Khalid in order to kill him. This he did. Then, at a safe distance, but in the presence of the man's wives, he fell on him with his sword and killed him. Khalid's women were the only witnesses and they began to cry and mourn for him.

ASSASSINATIONS

On other occasions Muhammad had no aversion to politically experidant assassinations. When a prominent Jew, Ka'b Ibn Al-Ashraf, had stirred up some discord against Muhammad and composed a satirical poem about him, the Prophet asked, Who will deliver me from Ka'b? Immediately four persons volunteered and shortly returned to Muhammad with Ka'b's head..

Also Muhammad ordered the death of Uqbah ibn Abu Muayt.

On 2 other occasions, Muhammad ordered the deaths of satirical poets.

KEEPING OATHS p. 175

The Qur'an itself informs us the Muhammad was not indisposed to breaking promises when he found it advantageous. He even got a revelation to break a long-standing pledge to avoid killing during a sacred month of Arab:"They ask thee concerning fighting in the prohibited month. Say: Fighting therein is a grave offense, but graver is it in the sight of God to prevent access to the path of God."

EXECUTING WOMEN

A Jewish woman was executed because she had killed a Muslim by dropping a millstone on his head. Both slave women who had allegedly spoken against Muhammad in song, were indicted and ordered executed with their master. When it was believed that one woman, Abu'Afk had insulted Muhammad, by a poem, one of Muhammad's followers "attacked her during the night while she was surrounded by her children, one of whom she was nursing. And, "after removing the child from his victim, he killed her."

GENOCIDE p.176

Muhammad attacked the last Jewish tribe of Medina based on the suspicion that they had plotted with the Meccan enemies against Muslims. Unlike the previous two Jewish tribes who had been simply expelled from the city, this time all the men of the tribe were put to death and the women and children were sold into slavery.

[Ozz]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
"O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none but god; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, lords and patrons other than God. (3:64)

Needs editing.

"O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none; that we erect not, from among ourselves, lords and patrons. (11:52 EST)

[Ozz]

Frankly, What kind of God would want humans to crawl
and abase themselves? What kind of God would want
such spineless worms for followers?

Seems All too human (wink,wink, nudge, nudge, say no
more, say no more)