Coalition grows. Old Europe still pouting.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Quote:

Why are you attacking Ran's country, rather than his arguments ?

That's what we one-trick ponies do. We bring up whatever mistakes a country has made and use them to question the motives of whatever action that country is currently undertaking. This covers up the distinct lack of evidence and logic behind our arguments...

Thanks for the clear answer.

[The Mad Monk]

You should be weeping for America. Arrogance killed Rome and Persia, imperial China and the Ottomans. I guess human nature will never change.

It was arrogance? I always thought it was complacency.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
It was arrogance? I always thought it was complacency.

I don't know the meaning of complacency, but if it means "believing in your own intrinsic superiority without questioning yourself", I completely agree with you.

[Willem]

Originally posted by ranskaldan
It's about America treating the rest of the world with contempt and arrogance.

America or George W. Bush? There is a difference!

[Drake Tungsten]

Most of the contempt in the world seems to be directed at the United States, not emanating from it...

[VJ]

Afghanistan

D'uh.

Albania

Still the poorest country in Europe because of Hoxha, basically a dump, butt-licking US to get economic support, which pretty obvious if you know details about the country.

Australia

Same as UK, except that some people actually support the war.

Azerbaijan

Neighbour of Georgia, same reasons apply

Bulgaria

Giving US foreign support to gain, in contrary, support from US. This is the case in many eastern Europe countries, which are in a marginal position, with an devastation economic conditions.

Colombia

Drugs. Civil war.

the Czech Republic

Czech leader doesn't have any support from his people... contrary, the nation's pretty stabile and in good condition, not just trying to butt-lick US.

Denmark

I'm impressed, to be honest.

El Salvador

In terms of land area, a tiny country in the Latin America.

Eritrea

This nation is in full-scale civil war, isn't it?

Estonia

Giving US foreign support to gain, in contrary, support from US.

Ethiopia

I'm not 100% certain of Eritrea, but THIS nation is in a full-scale civil war.

Georgia

US Troops in the area, trying to lick US butts to get US troops to lessen the Russian effect.

Hungary

Same reasons as in Bulgaria

Italy

Berlusconi is a corrupted criminal. I think we all understand what a joke he is. Anti-war demonstrations have dragged millions to the streets.

Japan, South Korea

W00t.

Latvia, Lithuania

Giving US foreign support to gain, in contrary, support from US.

Macedonia

A different reasons, varying from the same reasons as in Albania and eastern Europe.

the Netherlands

W00t.

Nicaragua

Latin American, unstable country.

the Philippines

Licking US butt to gain some troops to upkeep the despotism in the area.

Poland

W00t.

Romania

Not surprised, this is the most typical eastern European country.

Slovakia

W00t.

Spain

Same reasons as in UK.

Turkey

I haven't gathered enough information to talk about this case.

United Kingdom

People oppose the war, PM has been commited to support Bush.

and Uzbekistan

Small, marginal country near China and Russia. Guess what the reason is.


Anyway, that leaves us with:
Afganistan, Australia, Denmark, Czech rep, Japan, Netherlands, Poland, Slovakia, UK, Spain and Turkey.
Possibly Eritrea and South Korea.
EDIT: Added one country which I forgot. Hmmh.

[notyoueither]

W00t? Japan, Korea, and the Netherlands count for less than whom?

You oppose democracy because someone disagrees with you? Curious. Do you have a clue what the point is?

[Drake Tungsten]

I'm pleasantly suprised that the Dutch are on board; I thought they would puss out like their French, German and Belgian neighbors. I apologize for lumping them in with such a distasteful crowd. Sorry, Netherlands. Thanks for the support...

[VJ]

W00t? Japan, Korea, and the Netherlands count for less than whom?

Brain malfuction. Rephrase.

You oppose democracy because someone disagrees with you? Curious. Do you have a clue what the point is?

Actually, no.
It was directed directly to him, should've used pm. If you would know about our posts to each other in the past, then... ok, suppose you have a point

[Drake Tungsten]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...x.html?cnn=yes

Fittingly, the American team won...

[notyoueither]

Oh frack! Not the anthem crap again.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I don't know the meaning of complacency, but if it means "believing in your own intrinsic superiority without questioning yourself", I completely agree with you.

That's a part of it. They became so sure of their own invulnerability they no longer worked at it. the Romans relied upon mercenaries whose loyalty could purchased more and more as time went on -- unti lit was too late; the Chinese became so enamored of their own technological superiority they longer made scientific advancements. In each case, the power in question lulled itself to sleep, content in its own greatness, until it became soft.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I don't know the meaning of complacency, but if it means "believing in your own intrinsic superiority without questioning yourself", I completely agree with you.

You both are right: a great empire will fall because both of its complacency and arrogance. Complacency destroys its inherent strength and competitiveness, while arrogance blinds it from obvious threat. If we Americans are arrogant, you Europeans are the complacent ones.

[Az]

You should be weeping for America. Arrogance killed Rome and Persia, imperial China and the Ottomans. I guess human nature will never change.

Actually, arrogance didn't kill them. lack of technological innovation, a crumbling buraeucracy, internal stife, and the instability of power.

I don't see these things in the US.



People don't give arrogance enough credit these days. It is much better than being overly insecure of yourself.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Azazel

Actually, arrogance didn't kill them. lack of technological innovation, a crumbling buraeucracy, internal stife, and the instability of power.

I don't see these things in the US.



People don't give arrogance enough credit these days. It is much better than being overly insecure of yourself.

More like complacency. "Bread and Circus", excessive welfare, overtaxation, and bureaucratization will destroy even the greatest civilizations.

[notyoueither]

Hollywood, democrats, democrats, the IRS... Oh oh.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Hollywood, democrats, democrats, the IRS... Oh oh.

Democrats are hardline right-wing conservatives compared to Europeans.

[notyoueither]

Well, OK. You're at 50% though. Watch it!

[Az]

More like complacency. "Bread and Circus", excessive welfare, overtaxation, and bureaucratization will destroy even the greatest civilizations.

This is somewhat true, but I think the reason to the military defeats was lack of technological innovation. little has changed, for all the years of the roman republic, and then the empire. Meanwhile, the opposition got better technology, the knight concept, for example.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Lincoln
The list includes countries which are providing troops, over-flight or basing rights, logistical support

Hmmm, let's see... Despite the fact that Germany is providing both over-flight and basing rights, and our troops are requested to protect the american bases and the families of the american soldiers against attacks of evil terrorists, which they do without a single complaint, we are still insulted by our former ally.

Personally I think, we should deny over-flight rights, kick the foreign bases (for a start, denying them fresh water will work), pull the AWACS and Patriots out of Turkey and Israel, the "peacekeepers" out of the Balkans and Afghanistan and the Anti-NBC units out of Kuwait and leave stupid and useless NATO. But that's just me. Unfortunately, our government thinks otherwise.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Quote:

It's almost sad...

So is your oppression of the Tibetans, Uighurs and members of Falun Gong. Time to get off that high horse...

So how exactly are they oppressed? Do they not have the rights of the average Chinese? Or are you saying they should have more rights?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Azazel
Actually, arrogance didn't kill them. lack of technological innovation, a crumbling buraeucracy, internal stife, and the instability of power.

I don't see these things in the US.

What? The last three seem to apply.

I think the root cause is arrogance. Because you don't think you need to change or adapt new things.

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Hmmm, let's see... Despite the fact that Germany is providing both over-flight and basing rights, and our troops are requested to protect the american bases and the families of the american soldiers against attacks of evil terrorists, which they do without a single complaint, we are still insulted by our former ally.

Personally I think, we should deny over-flight rights, kick the foreign bases (for a start, denying them fresh water will work), pull the AWACS and Patriots out of Turkey and Israel, the "peacekeepers" out of the Balkans and Afghanistan and the Anti-NBC units out of Kuwait and leave stupid and useless NATO. But that's just me. Unfortunately, our government thinks otherwise.

I don't remember if the BBC article pointed it out but there is supposedly a list of nations who support the war effort but do not want to admit as much. We might call this the "silent majority".

By the way, if I was a German I wouldn't want any smelly US troops in my country either. Yankee go home! (And take McDonalds with you.)

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


I think the root cause is arrogance. Because you don't think you need to change or adapt new things.

Actually I agree with this.

"Pride goes before a fall" (if I may quote a truth from the Bible).

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Lincoln
By the way, if I was a German I wouldn't want any smelly US troops in my country either. Yankee go home! (And take McDonalds with you.)

Well, I don't have anything against the Bases as such. I count them useless, since nobody threatens Europe anymore, but they don't disturb me. I don't have problems with the GIs and their families either.

However, combined with the current anti european babble, I begin to see them more a threat than a protection. I sincerely hope for a regime change in Washington next year, so that relations can calm down a bit. On the long run, these bases will undoubtly be moved farther east, to get closer to Russia, so the "problem" with the useless bases will solve itself.

I have nothing against Mickey D's. It's not Maxim's or Kempinski, that's true, but for a quick lunch inbetween it's ok. I couldn't stand it, if it was the only source of food, but with all the Greek, Turkish, Italian and Asian restaurants I have enough alternatives. By the way, I prefer Burger King over McDonalds, but that's just me .

[Heresson]

The Iraquis had best surrender now. The Poles are the fiecest warrors the world has ever produced, the war is over already. I wonder why they keep giving the US credit for victories?

POLAND!

Polish soldiers are sent just to manifestate Polish alliance with America. I'm against the ass-licking of our gouverment. But your post is dumb.

[Az]

What? The last three seem to apply.

. No they don't.

I think the root cause is arrogance. Because you don't think you need to change or adapt new things.

But they're changing and adapting all the time. And since their rate of change is actually one of the highest in the world, and they've got a helluva head start, I don't see anyone threaten their position, not anytime soon, at least.

So how exactly are they oppressed? Do they not have the rights of the average Chinese? Or are you saying they should have more rights?

Why do you think that only you are entitled to more rights than the average Chinese?

[SKILORD]

Originally posted by Heresson


Polish soldiers are sent just to manifestate Polish alliance with America. I'm against the ass-licking of our gouverment. But your post is dumb.

When the Polish fascist party rises you had best watch out my freind. I was in no way insulting Poles, i AM Polish for goodness' sake.


anyway, when my Polish fascist party gets on it's feet, you had best watch out, for implying that Poland needs to 'ass-lick' anyone. As soon as my exile is over you shall see.

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Azazel

. No they don't.


But they're changing and adapting all the time. And since their rate of change is actually one of the highest in the world, and they've got a helluva head start, I don't see anyone threaten their position, not anytime soon, at least.

What exactly would you call "rate of change"?

Growth of GDP? Rise of productivity?

Big deal, some third world countries are doing much better.

As for the "head start", history has amply shown that head starts don't guarantee anything.

Why do you think that only you are entitled to more rights than the average Chinese?

That's another thread. Feel free to start it, and we'll be sure to visit.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Azazel
Why do you think that only you are entitled to more rights than the average Chinese?

Between my SO and my mom, I have no rights.