Flag waving.......Flag burning

Tiamat · March 21, 2003, 13:15

In my time here there have been topics that I have choosen not to comment on such as the situation we are in now. While I love a good debate as much as the next person, I learned along time ago that there are some topics that just get heated and then turn into personal attacks rather then a good debate. Personal attacks here.......on polly......nooOOOoooo

But something that I saw while watching the news last night has brought me to the point that I must speak out and say something because for the first time since all this started this really got to me. Last night while watching the news they were showing some footage of protesters doing what they do best......protesting the war but what raised my hackles was the fact that one of these protesters had the flag upside down and another one had a flag that they proceeded to burn while yelling "hell no we won't go." I do believe in free speech and the freedom that they enjoy to express their views. However........

Where I have to take issue with you silly little pimple face git is that HELLO!!!! you live in a country that affords you the freedom to do these things. Another issue I have with you is that my father fought not once but three times WWII, Korea and Vietnam to allow you the precious freedom you so enjoy that gives you the right to wave that flag upside down and burn it. My uncles, one a POW and one who is still MIA gave of their lives and themsleves so that you might have that freedom to burn that flag. Yes that was a choice he made and his choice brings me nothing but pride and honor today knowing that I can sit it my own home and argue about whether I think the President or anyone else I choose is right because people gave their lives so that I could do that.

And your "Hell no we won't go" speech is a bit outdated. Newsflash honey!! **whispers** there is no draft to send you off to war so where are you not going to. Which brings me here........You're protesting......not fighting. It doesn't look to me like you've gone anywhere and I doubt that you would have the fortitude much less the balls to go anywhere and fight for this country.

My father fought in three wars, was shot down and at. My Uncle was a POW for 8 years in Vietnam and came back with horrible scars...physical and mental that can never be removed. He sat in his own shite for 8 years so you......you could have the right to burn and degrade the one thing that kept him going.......our Flag and our country. That Flag that you burn and turn upside down.....look at the stripes. That red is the symbol of all the blood that was shed to give me and yes.....even you....the right to your opinions now matter how wrong or right they are. See that's what makes this country a pretty cool place to live. You.....you Flag burner.......even you have the freedom to show your contempt or your love for your country and Flag because we live in a land that is free.

So when you want to turn that Flag upside down or burn it or shout to the hilltops how much this country sucks.........just think about this. Somewhere out there there are children and families and loved ones of people who gave their lives so that your opinion could matter. You protest something you have no first hand knowledge about, you protest something that you have no idea what it's like to have your father be in another country and only get communication from him once a month and then all you can hear in the background behind the I love you's and I miss you's are bombs going off and then the line goes dead and you don't know if your dad is alive or dead but you know if he's dead then he died fighting to maintain the freedom you so now enjoy and the freedom that gives you the right to disrespect our Flag.

This daughter will not disrespect her country's Flag nor the Flag of my Father or his Father before him. I'm proud to show my support and to wave my Flag high because I am a proud daughter...........but most of all I AM AN AMERICAN!

Nubclear · March 21, 2003, 13:21

Flying the flag upside down is a signmal that the country is in DISTRESS. Not a symbol of disprespect.

And the rest is simply hyper-patriot drivel.

Nubclear · March 21, 2003, 13:23

Oh, and just for you

Guynemer · March 21, 2003, 13:25

Tass, I may also think that Tia is a little too wound up over all this as well.

But now, you're just being an ass.

Nubclear · March 21, 2003, 13:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Guynemer
But now, you're just being an ass.

I know.

Tiamat · March 21, 2003, 13:26

And thank you for proving my point once again that even simple mided git's have the right to express their opinions. It's called Freedom.

Nubclear · March 21, 2003, 13:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Tiamat
It's called Freedom.

Yep, thats whats great about this country.

lightblue · March 21, 2003, 13:31

Not wanting to put too fine apoint on it, but Korea and Vietnam hardly ensured freedom in the US as the mainland was never even remotely threatened.

As for flag burning, I never quite get why Americans are so attached to their flag. I couldn't care less if someone flew the Dutch flag upside down (he might be a serb

) or set fire to it. I think it has something to do with the whole Pledge of Allegiance brainwash thing they have you do as kids. There's such a thing as being too patriotic/nationalistic.

Tiamat · March 21, 2003, 13:31

Exactly......finally one thing we both agree on.

Tiamat · March 21, 2003, 13:33

Quote:

Originally posted by lightblue
Not wanting to put too fine apoint on it, but Korea and Vietnam hardly ensured freedom in the US as the mainland was never even remotely threatened.

As for flag burning, I never quite get why Americans are so attached to their flag. I couldn't care less if someone flew the Dutch flag upside down (he might be a serb

) or set fire to it. I think it has something to do with the whole Pledge of Allegiance brainwash thing they have you do as kids. There's such a thing as being too patriotic/nationalistic.

As I said at the begining of this. It isn't my norm to speak out on things like this, however, when something does get to me or I really feel strongly about it I will say something. Just expressing my opinion.

BeBro · March 21, 2003, 13:34

What´s the deal about flag burning? How does it secure peace? For me, it is just a waste of time and resources....

Nubclear · March 21, 2003, 13:34

Quote:

Originally posted by lightblue
Not wanting to put too fine apoint on it, but Korea and Vietnam hardly ensured freedom in the US as the mainland was never even remotely threatened.

Or Iraq. I should point that out

Quote:

As for flag burning, I never quite get why Americans are so attached to their flag. I couldn't care less if someone flew the Dutch flag upside down (he might be a serb

) or set fire to it. I think it has something to do with the whole Pledge of Allegiance brainwash thing they have you do as kids. There's such a thing as being too patriotic/nationalistic.

I agree with you. American Children are taught to be "patriotic to their country" and while theres the teenage rebellion period, it stays with them for most of their lives.

Unfortunately, the hyper-patriotic nonsense occupying their minds inhibit learning and give the government much easier access to propaganda that could change their opinions.

Nubclear · March 21, 2003, 13:35

Quote:

Originally posted by BeBro
What´s the deal about flag burning? How does it secure peace? For me, it is just a waste of time and resources....

I like seeing fire. Especially fire to the flag of a murderous regieme.

BeBro · March 21, 2003, 13:36

You are so cute.

Nubclear · March 21, 2003, 13:37

Quote:

Originally posted by BeBro

You are so cute.

lightblue · March 21, 2003, 13:40

I don't know, I am not against the current actions in Iraq, if only because the sanctions will be lifted and general life will probably be better for normal Iraqis afterwards. Also WoMD can threaten the US mainland (or the EU for that matter) if they get in the wrong hands. It would be easier to release spores/gas in a US city than it would've been for the Vietcong to acquire ICBMs and threaten the US mainland...

In Europe, most kids get raised to be sceptical about nationalism, as we have learnt first hand in the 30's and 40's what happens if a country (be it Germany or Japan) takes it too far. The lack of physical effects on the US mainland (bar Hawaii) of WW2 was non-existent, so they might never had the nationalism knocked out of them. Or it might be the whole "young nation" syndrome...

Ned · March 21, 2003, 13:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Flying the flag upside down is a signmal that the country is in DISTRESS. Not a symbol of disprespect.

And the rest is simply hyper-patriot drivel.

Tass, You and your kind are among the most evil people who ever existed. You side with tryanny against liberty. You side with monsters against freedom. You laugh at the those who take freedom and liberty seriously. You sick b*astard.

Nubclear · March 21, 2003, 13:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned

Tass, You and your kind are among the most evil people who ever existed.

Ned is in "hyper HYPER patriot" mode

And hes a bit grumpy....But just the better to troll him with

SlowwHand · March 21, 2003, 13:46

Flag burners, need the same consideration and treatment they give.

Nubclear · March 21, 2003, 13:48

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Flag burners, need the same consideration and treatment they give.

Burn the flag of flag burners!!!

Nubclear · March 21, 2003, 13:52

OK, now I'll respond.....

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned

Tass, You and your kind are among the most evil people who ever existed.

Yes, I know. Maybe we should be thrown in concentration camps like the Japanese or Arabs?

Quote:

You side with tryanny against liberty.

Can you QUOTE me?

Quote:

You side with monsters against freedom.

Quote me please

Quote:

You laugh at the those who take freedom and liberty seriously.

You do know that a flag isn't "freedom" and "liberty", right? Freedom and liberty are about being free, not about waving a flag.

I laugh at those whom blindly follow the flag thinking its some sacred object as opposed to those who couldnt care less about what happens to a piece of cloth and truely want to help their country.

Quote:

You sick b*astard.

Thanks.

Az · March 21, 2003, 13:52

Ok. I really didn't want to say what I will say now. Time after time again, I stopped from saying something offensive. But I think that enough is enough. I could easily countertroll but I won't.

Tassadar, you're an *******.

Nubclear · March 21, 2003, 13:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel
Tassadar, you're an *******.

Not as much of a ******* as the people who are bombing baghdad are.

Alex · March 21, 2003, 13:58

Tia, isn't your post self-contradictory? If there is freedom to protest and the legal system gives them the right to burn the national flag, so what's your point? It's like saying: "Hey, I worked hard during the whole year to give you this money, so you could do what you wanted to do with it, and now you are spending the money!"

SlowwHand · March 21, 2003, 14:02

Tassadar, you're late for your lobotomy appointment.

General Ludd · March 21, 2003, 14:03

It's just a flag.

What really bothers me are the people who worship the flag and take insults against their government as if they where personal. It's that sort of nationalist feeling that disgusts me.

Nubclear · March 21, 2003, 14:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
It's just a flag.

What really bothers me are the people who worship the flag and take insults against their government as if they where personal. It's that sort of nationalist feeling that disgusts me.

Same here. I could care less if someone burns the Russian flag or the Soviet Flag or any other flag on the planet. They are all simply cloth.

Its the ideals that matter. Its what you do with those ideals that matter. And trust me, flying some cloth is NOT a good way to celebrate those ideals.

And sloww:

That one is too boring to get to me at all. Sorry.