Massive Air Strike Has Begun

[GePap]

Originally posted by Azazel
Actually, AFAIK, they plan to take it by night.

Why would they need to go in the dark if no resistance was present?

I remember these notions about how we would see Iraqis in the streets celebrating as theirt liberators drove by...

I still don't expect much fighting for that city, and that the US and Uk should have it soon. But if by tomorrow that city is not in coolition hands, then there is something off.

[Asher]

Originally posted by GePap
Why would they need to go in the dark if no resistance was present?

Minimize civilian casualties?

[Edan]

[I remember these notions about how we would see Iraqis in the streets celebrating as theirt liberators drove by...

Like these?

A few men and boys ventured out, putting makeshift white flags on their pickup trucks or waving white T-shirts out truck windows.

"Americans very good," Ali Khemy said. "Iraq wants to be free."

Some chanted, "Ameriki! Ameriki!"

Many others in the starving town just patted their stomachs and raised their hands, begging for food.

A man identifying himself only as Abdullah welcomed the arrival of the U.S. troops: "Saddam Hussein is no good. Saddam Hussein a butcher."

An old woman shrouded in black — one of the very few women outside — knelt toward the feet of Americans, embracing an American woman. A younger man with her pulled her away, giving her a warning sign by sliding his finger across his throat.

In 1991, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died after prematurely celebrating what they believed was their liberation from Saddam after the Gulf War. Some even pulled down a few pictures of Saddam then — only to be killed by Iraqi forces.

Gurfein playfully traded pats with a disabled man and turned down a dinner invitation from townspeople.

"Friend, friend," he told them in Arabic learned in the first Gulf War.

"We stopped in Kuwait that time," he said. "We were all ready to come up there then, and we never did."

The townspeople seemed grateful this time.

"No Saddam Hussein!" one young man in headscarf told Gurfein. "Bush!"

Admittedly, there'll be a lot more support for Saddam as they move up north.

[Spec]

Watch an MOAB explosion here.

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/...s/big-bomb.mpa

Discusting...

[GePap]

Well, I await the same story from Um Quassar and then from Basra...

I still fidn it strange that the marines are moving relatively slowly. They started going, what, a day ago basically, and Um Quassar looks to be somehting like 10 miles past the border.

[Zero]

nobody else is pissed off about the massive use of bombs and missles?

Every time I see an explosion I think "Wellthere goes another portion of my paycheck....".

[GePap]

I expect the Iraqis had emtied many of those buildings before, since they all sound like obvious targets. Unless they then moved people in, the acual numbers of dead form this attack should be relatively low.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Alexnm
Funny, I thought that they would avoid the massive bombardments for fear of civilian casualties and the corresponding political backlash. Maybe they are facing stiffier than expected resistance.

Pre-planned military and government targets. This has nothing to do with resistance being faced. More likely a message to those considering surrender.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by GePap
Well, I await the same story from Um Quassar and then from Basra...

I still fidn it strange that the marines are moving relatively slowly. They started going, what, a day ago basically, and Um Quassar looks to be somehting like 10 miles past the border.

Russian radio intercepts detailed in an intelligence briefing make it sound as if reistance is fairly substantial in that region.

[LaRusso]

seems like some people are pleasuring themselves watching fireworks on tv

[Wraith]

I'm blatantly stealing this from a Slashdot post, but enjoy anyway:

In A.D. 2003
War was beginning

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A series of large explosions rocked Iraq's capital sending plumes of smoke and fire into the skies over Baghdad as the intense coalition air assault got underway.

Saddam: What happen?
Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb.
Operator: We get signal.
Saddam: What!
Operator: Main screen turn on.
Saddam: It's You!!
Bush: How are you gentlemen!!
Bush: All your oil are belong to us.
Bush: You are on the way to destruction.
Saddam: What you say!!
Bush: You have no chance to survive make your time.
Bush: Ha Ha Ha Ha ....
Saddam: Take off every 'Scud'!!
Operator: You know what you doing.
Saddam: Move 'Scud'.
Saddam: For great justice.

Wraith
"The reason the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices it on a daily basis."
-- from a post-war debriefing of a German General

[Az]

LOL

[CapTVK]

I find the fact that millions of people are watching a city being slowly turned into rubble, LIVE ON TV, very very disturbing. Almost surreal in fact. It's more like one of the television scenes out of Robocop.

The trouble is, this isn't a movie...

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by GePap
The US would never use a 21,000 pound bomb on a city center, unless it was deperate, which at this point it is not.

It is niteresting they have not turned the ligths off..my guess is their working assumption is that they can shake the lower echelons enough to ahve them give up...the previous light show was not enough, so lets give them an even bigger one to drive them to their senses, or so the theory goes.

Why aren't we in Basra yet? It is well within 24 hours travel time form the border, and in theory, we should have been let in with 0 resistence. As fo yet, no word about anyone either getting into or taking Basra...

Note how it does not seem to be in the target list.

I dont know if you have been listening to the news but they took that city hours ago. Way before the "shock and awe" campagin.

[DanS]

It's an abosolute f*****g atrocity. Any right thinking person should be disgusted at this spectacle.

Personally, I don't think it's an atrocity to see Hussein's palaces destroyed. There is likely minimal loss of life. This is just a demonstration, so that fewer lives are lost in the long run.

[Jack_www]

You guys think that massive amounts of civilians are getting killed or something. These are precession guided weapons targeted at millitary targets. Some people get worked up too much.

From reports I hear the war is going better then planed.

[GePap]

Jack_www:

as I write this right now (3pm EST), no news organization has made the claim that Basrah is in coolition hands> the Most I have heard is that either the Brits plan to have it by tonight, or that there is fighting going on there.

BUt no, as of right now, Basrah has not bee reported in Coolition hands. You may be thinking of Um Al-Qassar, the port further south.

[Jack_www]

GePap:
I have been hearing that they got the port on the radio all day long!!!

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Wraith
I'm blatantly stealing this from a Slashdot post, but enjoy anyway:

In A.D. 2003
War was beginning

[...]

Saddam: For great justice.

About damn time, I've been waiting for the Gulf War version of AYBABTU for a week now.

[GePap]

Yes, Um Al Qassar, the port of Iraq, which is south of Basra, which is not yet in coolition hands.

[Oerdin]

I go to an area without computer access for a few days and look what happens. Oh, well I'm sure nothing really interesting happened here at 'poly; just the normal moaning and whining...

[Jack_www]

Ok now I get were the mix up is.
US and British forces have captured the port they wanted but have not moved in on the city yet and are just outside of it. They are also dealing with a large number of surrendering troops, so I think that is what slowed them down, and the fact they are waiting for the "shock and awe" capagin to finish.

Sorry about that but the news I listen to did not make the distinction between the port and the city.

Anyways here is a news link.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81766,00.html

[Odin]

I heard on CNN that Basra isn't an inportant millitary spot. they said most of the Iraqi soldiers there will give up and then the brits will go in and clean up. (And get praise from Iraqi civilians. )

[GePap]

From Cnn.com

Oh, and for some reason I keep adding an Al..?

UMM QASR, Iraq (CNN) -- Allied troops have taken control of the strategically important Al Faw Peninsula, including the port town of Umm Qasr, a U.S. defense force spokesman has said.

The area is a strategic gateway to southern Iraq and its main oil pipeline terminals but also provides the only access to the Persian Gulf.

Lt. Col. Rick Long, spokesman for the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, said the area had been taken Friday afternoon.

UK Defense Secretary Geoff Hoon said the port town of Umm Qasr will act as a major conduit for humanitarian aid.

He told the House of Commons that the port "will be vital to the economic future of southern Iraq."

U.S. Marines had taken the new port early Friday, planting an American flag, but the UK Royal Marines -- who are working in tandem in southern Iraq -- were held up in trying to take the old part, meeting stiff resistance from Iraqi fighters.

The battle for Umm Qasr had been expected to take between one to two hours but took four hours, CNN's Jason Bellini said. He is embedded with the USMC Expeditionary Unit, 15th Artillery.

The offensive had been postponed until later Friday because of the strength of the resistance, Bellini added.

Iraq suffered four fatalities while hundreds of the country's soldiers surrendered. No allied casualties were reported.

The Iraqi Interior Minister Mahmud Dhiyab al Ahmad had earlier denied the U.S. incursion into the new part and had vowed his country "will resist and we will say this will be a fight."

The Faw Peninsula was taken by British forces in a pre-dawn raid, Col. Steve Cox of the 40 Commando Royal Marines landing force said.

Cox added: "The main thing now is sorting the mess out in the daylight, make sure all the sites are protected and assess the local situation."

By the end of the operation, the commandos had taken dozens of prisoners -- many of them voluntary. CNN's Christiane Amanpour said 250 Iraqi soldiers had surrendered to U.S. troops while a further 30 had given themselves over to British forces.

Television footage showed a column of Iraqi prisoners marching with their hands behind their heads, while other video showed solitary Iraqis approaching the British commandos or in small groups waving white flags, some in civilian clothes.

The commandos searched these men and sent them down the road with hands behind their heads.

Green-cast, night scope video showed handcuffed prisoners marching in the custody of heavily armed marines. Many are being kept in a warehouse at the docks. Some could be seen sitting on the ground facing a wall.

But Iraq's Information Minister Muhammed Saaed al Sahaf, said the prisoners of war were not soldiers. (Full Story)

In the first official Iraqi response to the U.S.-led attack, al Sahaf said: "These guys are not from the Iraqi army. These are not Iraqi soldiers. They are not members of any of the Iraqi armed forces."

Some of the captured men appeared to be soldiers while others seemed to be dockworkers wearing blue uniforms with the image of an anchor, Bellini reported.

-- CNN's Jason Bellini and CNN Radio Correspondent John Bisney contributed to this report

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by CapTVK
I find the fact that millions of people are watching a city being slowly turned into rubble, LIVE ON TV, very very disturbing. Almost surreal in fact. It's more like one of the television scenes out of Robocop.

The trouble is, this isn't a movie...

A city is not being turned to rubble. Please watch the news and learn what is happening.

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by DanS
It's an abosolute f*****g atrocity. Any right thinking person should be disgusted at this spectacle.

Personally, I don't think it's an atrocity to see Hussein's palaces destroyed. There is likely minimal loss of life. This is just a demonstration, so that fewer lives are lost in the long run.

DanS: I think some people frequently miss use the term "atrocity" trying to make it mean anything they don't like.

[Jack the Bodiless]

There has been some rather hysterical reporting. According to one reporter, "the whole of Baghdad is engulfed in a firestorm".

Idiot.

The word firestorm has a very specific meaning in this context. It's what happened to Dresden in WW2: incendiaries cause fires which join into one gigantic super-fire. It is quite obvious from the TV coverage that Baghdad is NOT engulfed in a firestorm.

Journalists should choose their words more carefully.

[Drake Tungsten]

Oh, well I'm sure nothing really interesting happened here at 'poly; just the normal moaning and whining...

You are correct, sir...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Basra is only 50miles from the Kuwaiti border. Something isn't right about this whole thing. They should have been in Basra by now and why hasn't there been any fierce resistance yet? Something is just not right.

I believe the plan was to skip Basra and go beyond the city to try to capture important bases and airfield. Basra would be captured afterwards.

They aren't trying to take every city. Right now, the focus is on Baghdad.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by DanS
It's an abosolute f*****g atrocity. Any right thinking person should be disgusted at this spectacle.

Personally, I don't think it's an atrocity to see Hussein's palaces destroyed. There is likely minimal loss of life. This is just a demonstration, so that fewer lives are lost in the long run.

Smart weapons are better now? Targeted strikes will minimize collateral damage? I actually believed them in Gulf War 1 and that turned out to be lies, so why should I believe them now. Given that not long ago the US put a bomb through the Chinese embassy we should take their words with a pinch of salt.

And the reports so far have been the typical rubbish. I wonder what is really happening.

Anyway, as I said, any right thinking person should be disgusted. I didn't say anything about those other people.... like Oerdin