Air Power in CivIII ?!?!

[ivujosev]

I know this has been discussed a few times, but!

1) Have you ever defended against an enemy interceptor while bombing with a Bomber, i.e. destroyed the interceptor?

2) Have you ever defended against an enemy interceptor while bombing with a Jet Fighter?

3) Have you ever sent Figters/Bombers to flush out interceptors by bombing a particular square. Find that there is no interceptor nearby (within 3 squares of the bombed square). Then send your helicopters, to the same square, only to see them intercepted!?

My answers for the questions in SP are ALWAYS
1) NO
2) NO
3) YES

Anyone had different outcomes? Is is just me or is air power in the game really badly unbalanced?

[WarpStorm]

For me it is usually:

Yes
Yes
No

It's just you.

[VJ]

Anyone had different outcomes? Is is just me or is air power in the game really badly unbalanced?

It is.
Then again, most games are over by the time I get necessary techs.

[CerberusIV]

1 Yes

2 No, I switch to stealth bombers and ignore interceptors

3 I never bother with helicopters. Send in MI, not paratroops.

[Jaybe]

1. Bomber defeats interceptor: Yes, once many moons ago. The interceptor may have been a fighter (not jet), I don't recall.

2. Have you ever defended against an enemy interceptor while bombing with a Jet Fighter?
Yes, quite OFTEN. OTH, I have increased fighter defense strengths to 'offense strength minus 1' to enable this offensive air superiority role (F-15 excepted where offense/defense are both 8).

3. Fighter sweeps performed and then have bomber (not helicopter) intercepted:
On occasion. If it didn't once in a while I would be disappointed.

NOTES: My mod includes increasing chance to intercept to 67% (from default 50%). I may reduce jet fighter defense strength to 6 as my latest game involved TOO MANY successful fighter sweeps (7 defense + 10% = 7.7, though I am not sure that the 10% is applied in air-air combat).

[ivujosev]

phew, going by those first replies i thought i was the only one but i'm glad you posted Jaybe even if your experience isn't as extreme as mine.

i suspect the glorious stories of that bomber defending against the fighter spread like bush fire throughout your lands.

anyway after posting i changed the jet fighter defence to 6 but left the intercept rate the same for now. too early to decide if its working yet.

[ivujosev]

oh another thing. has anyone found a use for the stealth fighter?

if so would you be so kind as to let me in on the secret of its purpose, apart from being an impotent half price stealth bomber?

[CerberusIV]

I will use a couple of stealth fighters for recon missions but that is about all.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by ivujosev
oh another thing. has anyone found a use for the stealth fighter?
...

The stealth fighter is fine, it just came with the wrong values.
Give it a bombardment strength of 8, keeping the RoF of 2 & range of 8, and it's just fine.

This way it is weaker than a bomber, but its other attributes make it a valuable adjunct to your air force.

To make a long story short, following is a list of all my changed air units (stealth bomber not changed):

Unit: A/D; B/RoF; Range (changes in bold)
Fighter: 4/3; 2/1; 4
Stealth Fighter: 0/0; 8/2; 8
F-15: 8/8; 6/2; 8
Jet Fighter: 8/7; 4/1; 6

[Jarvin]

1) I did defend from a jet interceptor with a bomber... just once, and i was so suprised i soiled myself.

2) I dont use fighters to bomb, they fail too much.

3) I dont use helicopters.

[ivujosev]

I only bomb with fighters to flush out the interceptors. And don't remember the last time they actually managed to damage anything. Like I said if there are interceptors, my fighters just burn.

Regarding helicopters I thought I'd give them a try in my latest game. So far I'm not impressed.

Thanks for the stats Jaybe.

On a side note, is there a way to change the game rules for saved games. I.e. change the bix file and load an old game while having the new rules?

[Sava]

I haven't played a game yet where the computer has air units

[Unconquered]

Has anyone ever seen a SAM intecept anything... I haven't

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by Unconquered
Has anyone ever seen a SAM intecept anything... I haven't

If you mean intercept an AI bombing one of my cities then no. I've never seen the AI bomb a city.

If you mean an AI SAM shoot down a human player bomber then yes. I actually lost a stealth bomber to a SAM once and have lost a bomber a couple of times.

I do use air bombardment heavily and that is three losses in hundreds of bombing missions so I would not say it is a significant factor in the game.

[TheStinger]

I use bombers but my fighters pretty much restricted to recon

[Theseus]

Yes
Yes
No, but I also have had Bombers attacked after sending out Fighters / Jet Fighters / F-15s... but that is the way it works.

[Mad Bomber]

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes (but like Theseus it usually is a bomber, not a chopper)

No. After modding the air aspect of CIV3 is quite balanced

Unconquered:

No I haven't had a city of mine intercept a bomber with a SAM, the AI tends to bombard areas around a city not the city itself. Had plenty of my units downed by SAMS though

[GarP2]

I use bombers a lot, and I dont remember a fighter coming up after my bomber and failing to intercept. Does the game just not tell you if the AI's fighter intercept fails? Sometimes they dont come up even though I know they are there. What determines whether they will try to intercept?

Also, in one or 2 cases, interceptors have shot down my bombers and on the next turn I captured both the city being bombed and the only other city close enough for the fighter to have come from, and no fighters were destroyed when I captured the cities. How does that happen?

GarP

[Jaybe]

GarP, yes you get a "we shot down an enemy fighter" when you are intercepted but the interceptor loses the combat. In the Editor: General Settings tab: Various Unit Abilities there is a "Chance to Intercept air Missions." Its default setting is 50%.

[Mizaq]

I believe stealth fighters and F15s can use precision strikes, that's what good about the stealth fighters IIRC.

[Kuciwalker]

Precisions strikes suck.

I don't WANT to bomb their improvements, I want to bomb their UNITS.

Now, if they let you PICK which improvement... then heck yes. Or especially if you could kill wonders.

[Flanker]

I think SAM:s would be much more worth the effort to build if they could defend the area around a city as well, not just the city itself. To not overpower the SAM:s, it changes to do a successful shot might be rather low.

[Jaybe]

skywalker, what the 'bleep' are you talking about!? The 'magic' of this game is that if you don't want to do precision strikes then use cruise missiles, which only target the units (not improvements/population).

Some players want to take cities intact, others want to knock them down to small towns to avoid culture flip potential. With me, it varies with the situation.

[Unconquered]

What does the animation for a SAM intercept look like?

[Panag]

hi ,

yes X 3

; for those who have not had it yet , use the editor , ....

have a nice day

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Unconquered
What does the animation for a SAM intercept look like?

a streak of light followed by your bomber blowing up then you get the infuriating message "our (unit) has been intercepted by SAM" (not a litteral quote, but close enough)

[Gramphos]

Yes
Yes
No

[Panag]

Originally posted by Gramphos
Yes
Yes
No

hi ,

gramhos , would it be possible to create a program or so that woul increase the usage of the SAM

have a nice day