Live firefight on CNN - Page 2

faded glory · March 23, 2003, 03:32

Those are republican gaurds .

amazing

Asher · March 23, 2003, 03:32

WTF? Iraqi troops driving a pink quad-cab pickup with a NYPD sticker on the windshield and a machine gun on the back?

Drake Tungsten · March 23, 2003, 03:33

Quote:

Lets say these guys are RG: if a bunch of RG in a city surrounded totally by US forces and totally outgunned decides to put up a fight instead of just syaing "screw Saddam, lets give up", then what does that say about when we come up to really loyal people?

I thought the Republican Guard were the really loyal people...

Imran Siddiqui · March 23, 2003, 03:34

Quote:

For the first few days we were given a picture of how everythign was falling apart for this regme. Lets say these guys are RG: if a bunch of RG in a city surrounded totally by US forces and totally outgunned decides to put up a fight instead of just syaing "screw Saddam, lets give up", then what does that say about when we come up to really loyal people?

How does this change things? The regime is falling apart, and you have isolated forces all across the country. Just because a few troops say lets give them a fight doesn't mean the entire army will. Compared to the number that have surrendered, this is very small percentage wise. I don't think it says anything.

Koyaanisqatsi · March 23, 2003, 03:34

Asher: Thanks for letting us know about this. Even outside the context of the war, this is important. I know the anchor keeps saying that, and as tempting as it is to dismiss it as self-aggrandizing bull, it isn't. As a student in new media, I see this as a very important step toward how information gets distributed in the future. Thanks.

faded glory · March 23, 2003, 03:35

This is very...very interesting.

notyoueither · March 23, 2003, 03:36

Son of a B, those marines are well trained. Not a one of 'em moves as they lay out of the highway. Are they alive?

notyoueither · March 23, 2003, 03:39

Is this staged?

GePap · March 23, 2003, 03:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Quote:

Lets say these guys are RG: if a bunch of RG in a city surrounded totally by US forces and totally outgunned decides to put up a fight instead of just syaing "screw Saddam, lets give up", then what does that say about when we come up to really loyal people?

I thought the Republican Guard were the really loyal people...

Nah, ahead of them you have the Special RG, then Saddam's and his son's security services (the guys that do the killing and torturing), and then his tribal relatives.

As for the number of soldiers that have given up: we heard that an entire 8,000 man division surrendered, but that US and UK forcs have 2000 POW's. Numbers come form here, form there.

This is a matter of perception. The images of huge masses of Iraqis giving up have not been there. You are shown a small group here, a slightly bigger group there, and then you see this. You may be confident that it is just a small firefight, no worry, understandable, but think of the TV message it sends out: " Iraqis fighting for Saddam to the last". That is not the message we want sent out on TV.

Asher · March 23, 2003, 03:40

It looks like the tanks are now REALLY damn close to the building where fire was coming from...

Drake Tungsten · March 23, 2003, 03:41

Quote:

Nah, ahead of them you have the Special RG

How do you know these guys aren't Special RG? Or the cream of the regular RG, placed specifically in Umm Qasr to raise hell for the Allies? I think it's far too early to be jumping to any conclusions based on this engagement.

Quote:

You may be confident that it is just a small firefight, no worry, understandable, but think of the TV message it sends out: " Iraqis fighting for Saddam to the last". That is not the message we want sent out on TV.

If the US annihilates this group of soldiers while taking no casualties, I think that is exactly the kind of message we want sent out. Maybe the rest of the Iraqi army will see the futility of fighting the Americans.

Imran Siddiqui · March 23, 2003, 03:42

Yeah, and the Commander has surrendered. Maybe he can get his troops to surrender as well?

Gatekeeper · March 23, 2003, 03:43

The *really* loyal troops to Saddam Hussein are his Special Republican Guard divisions — basically, those thugs, er, OK, soldiers are drawn from Hussein's Tikriti tribe. Therefore, they have everything to lose if they abandon Hussein. I think there's between 5,000 and 10,000 SRG troops, all around Baghdad and Tikrit.

All the other soldiers in Iraq — from the conscripts to the usual Republican Guard divisions — are not 100 percent trusted by Hussein.

Gatekeeper

PLATO · March 23, 2003, 03:45

GePap, The image we want to see is the truth. If it is ugly, then it is ugly. Right or Wrong the country is committed. If we cannot look our committment in the eye then the values we are trying to support are just lip service. Let's hope, as a country, we are better than that.

PLATO · March 23, 2003, 03:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
The *really* loyal troops to Saddam Hussein are his Special Republican Guard divisions — basically, those thugs, er, OK, soldiers are drawn from Hussein's Tikriti tribe. Therefore, they have everything to lose if they abandon Hussein. I think there's between 5,000 and 10,000 SRG troops, all around Baghdad and Tikrit.

All the other soldiers in Iraq — from the conscripts to the usual Republican Guard divisions — are not 100 percent trusted by Hussein.

Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper, the number that I keep seeing is around 16,000 SRG (Special Republican Guard)

MichaeltheGreat · March 23, 2003, 04:06

Quote:

Originally posted by GePap
This town was reported taken on friday morning, thats approching 36 hours by now if not more, and there are still some Iraqis fighting. Why? While thankfully very few Americans and Brits have died due to better training and an utterly unequal amount of firepower, the fact that some Iraqis are still fighting should give us a bit of pause as we go forward.

36 hours because we're securing the area in a very slow, methodical way, with minimal damage and minimal casualties. The city being taken means that it isn't contested on a large scale, it doesn't mean that there aren't isolated fighters holding out. That's the difference between taking control of an area and securing it. Saddam's security forces are everywhere, because he needed hardasses to scare the conscript army into line. The Iraqis executed hundreds of their own men in GW I. A lot of these security forces types were distributed in areas of strategic importance, and a lot of them will fight, but you're talking small scale resistance from one man to a fire-team or crew served weapon, with no coherence and no command structure controlling them.

Gatekeeper · March 23, 2003, 04:08

PLATO1003:

You're probably right ... that number sounds familiar. Does anyone have a hard and fast link or factoid regarding the number of SRG troops?

Gatekeeper

DanS · March 23, 2003, 04:10

I wish the Brit Sky News reporter would just be patient.

Dis · March 23, 2003, 04:25

Is there a thread on off-topic dealing with what happened in the 101st airborne? I am shocked by what happened. Although I heard that stuff went on all the time in Vietnam. But this is a completely different situation for many reasons.

DanS · March 23, 2003, 04:27

This is great! Fox News is now showing the Iraqi Information Minister who was just watching the firefight. He's waxing eloquent about how this shows the US is taking heavy casualties.

Amazing!

Dis · March 23, 2003, 04:28

yep, I'm watcing right now. I wasn't sure who that was.

DanS · March 23, 2003, 04:30

Split screen! They're calling in airstrikes!

Dis · March 23, 2003, 04:32

the translation isn't so hot.

just the usuall U.S. will not win the war crap. They look like fools saying they will win the war. When it is apparant to everyone including Iraqis living in Bagdhag that the U.S. will win the war.

Imran Siddiqui · March 23, 2003, 04:36

The funny part was when he said 'we will shock the American'

.

Imran Siddiqui · March 23, 2003, 04:42

Can hear the planes passing now.

Asher · March 23, 2003, 04:44

Looks like the camera was left pointing at the wrong target. Or maybe they'll come back again.

Drake Tungsten · March 23, 2003, 04:47

Christiane Amanpour just said that there is evidence the troops were sent down from Baghdad to defend Umm Qasr. These might be the loyal ones...

BTW, isn't it weird to know that everyone on this thread is watching the exact same thing?

Imran Siddiqui · March 23, 2003, 04:48

Yeah, it seems like they left the camera and got cover.

DanS · March 23, 2003, 04:49

They missed the punchline! The camera wasn't pointed in the right direction!

Dis · March 23, 2003, 04:55

that military guy is right. We are taking too long on what should be a simple firefight. Perhaps they know they are on live tv, and are acting too cautiously.

They should just take the tank and run over the enemy

7.62 mm rounds cannot pentrate that armour.