17th Turn Chat (From Turn 127 in the year 1460BC)

Martin Gühmann · March 23, 2003, 18:56

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Questions to the member of government in order to collect the necessary orders:

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Questions to the President (Martin Gühmann):

Q1: How will you name our cities?
A1: ???

Q2: Will we change the PW rate?
A2: Waiting for the outcome of the according poll.

Q3: Will we change the slider settings?
A3: Just in case of riots in one of our cities which would probably continue in the next turn. In that case more food is given to the people to stop the riots. Currently 5kg food per turn is given to the people, we could lower it if we can improve the happiness situation.

Q4 Will we spend any gold?
A4 Possible so limited amount of gold can be spend on Diplomacy and on build items.

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Questions to the Minister of Domestic Affairs (Tamerlin):

Q5: What will the next three items for the build queues of all of our cities?

a) Pedrunnia
b) Colonia Locuta
c) H Town
d) mapfipolis
e) Pressburg
f) Graz
g) Wels
h) Linz
i) Wombatoon
j) Maquidad

I think we should use the build queue feature in order to reduce the workload. We can modify the build queues later if necessary, anyway.

A5: ???

Q6: Will we change the specialist distribution in any city? If yes in which city and how? A more common answer should be given after the initial state of the game.
A6: ???

A7: Will we build anywhere theaters or/and shrines to improve the happiness situation? Especial in Graz a new theater or shrine would give us, some room to lower the food rations, so that we won't waste so much of them to the people. Well also some academies are good for increasing our science.

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Questions to the Minister of Infrastruture (Immortal Wombat):

Well we have neither the technology of Trade nor any PW to spend, but that shouldn't us prevent from planing our first tile improvements:

Q8: Wher will we build our roads, farms, trading post and mines?
A8: ???

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Questions to the Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science (Locutus):

Q9: What will be our attitude towards these civilisations, if we send them a proposal?

a) Austria
b) Scottland
c) Germany
d) Thailand
e) Celtic Empire
f) India
g) Israel

A9: Meek, the tone in the middle of the buttons.

Q10: To which of these civilisations mentioned above we should send a proposal, if any?
A10: ???

Q11: What is our research goal after Monarchy?
A11: ???

Q12: What is the avance we should research after the advance we have then researched after Monarchy?
A12: ???

Q14: In case of a cease fire offer by the Austrians, should we accept or reject?
A14: Still reject.

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Questions to the Minister of Defense (Pedrunn):

Q15: What are Bait's next moves? How will we follow the withdraw treaty with the Celts?
A15: ???

Q16: What are Goodsight's next moves?
A16: ???

Q17: Will you name our armies? If yes how, and which army?
A17: ???

Q18: Which Austrian city should we attack next, if any in the near future?
A18: ???

Q19: What are the next moves of the army near the former Austrian city Troppau?
A19: ???

Q20: How do we rebuild our armies to attack Austria?
A20: ???

Q21: The Austrians retreated from mapfipolis but I fear, the are going to Colonia Locuta or Pedrunnia now, so what we do with SmallOne? How will we protect Colonia Locuta and Pedrunnia.
A21: ???

Q22: What will we do with the Barbrian killer stack near Pedrunnia?
A22: ???

Q23: What will we do with the German settlers near H Town and Maquidad within our borders?
A23: ???

Q24: What will we do with the new Samurai at Goodsight?
A24: ???

Q25: What will we do with the warrior called GrazPost, first I suggest to give him a better name. By the way the Austrian settler looks a little bit suicidal. But we shouldn't do this little guy the favour as we don't want to risk our good relationships to the other civilisations.
A25: ???

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Questions to All Citizens:

Q26: Who wants to help me with the screenshots and game info? (Needs to be someone with CTP2 and some basic knowlegde and resources to graphic editing.)
A26: ???

Q27: Is there anything I forgot to ask for there?
A27: ???

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Please, if you are a minister confirm your presence or your absence! Of course any citizien is free to do it as well.

Confirmed ministers (or delegates)
Martin Gühmann - President
??? - Minister of Domestic Affairs
??? - Minister of Infrastruture
??? - Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science
??? - Minister of Defense
??? - Graphic Manager (screenshot helper)

-Martin

miggio · March 25, 2003, 10:49

ill try to attend the chat

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 14:00

The overll rankings:

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 14:03

The military rankings:

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 14:04

The economic rankings:

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 14:07

The Science rankings:

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 15:18

A screenie from the West of our empire:

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 16:04

A savegame for Pedrunn:

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 16:48

An Ösian suicide command:

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 16:51

Barbs near Maquidad:

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 17:48

And a savegame for Gilgamensch:

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 19:08

The West with enemies:

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 20:18

I thought the prediscussion also included some important stuff the actual chat therefore I decided to post this, too. All times are GMT + 1.

[18:59] <MartinGuehmann> We did not started yet.
[19:00] <Pedrunn> Has every one here saw my thread about the next target?
[19:00] <MartinGuehmann> I only extended the build queues according Tamerlin's orders.
[19:00] <MartinGuehmann> I saw it, but I still need to open it.
[19:00] <Tamerlin> Thanks Martin, are we allowed to use the Crossed Sword trick when we place the movement cursor over an ennemy city?
[19:01] <Pedrunn> Sorry all about the last day. I had not much time to open new polls

[19:01] <MartinGuehmann> No problem Pedrunn.
[19:02] <MartinGuehmann> Well we already used the crossed sword trick.
[19:02] <Tamerlin> Then Wien seems undefended we should consider a quick raid with all the available units...
[19:02] <Tamerlin>

[19:02] <Pedrunn> how is that crossed sword trick????
[19:03] <Tamerlin> If you plan to move a unit and place the move cursor over a ennemy city it will take the appearance of a crossed sword if there would be a fight, it stays as usual if there is no unit to defend the said city...

[19:04] <MartinGuehmann> Just take an army take the go to command and move the cursor over an enemy city, if you see crossed swords you need some units to take the city, if the cursor stays the same you just need a warror to take the city.
[19:05] <Pedrunn>

didnt liked this
[19:06] <Gilg> Hi all, just back from the smoking break.........
[19:06] <Gilg> I think we agreed not to use tricks/cheats......
[19:08] <Tamerlin> Hi again Gilgamensch...

This is not a cheat or even a trick, consider the AI is using far more naughty means against us...
[19:09] <MartinGuehmann> So you don't like it to know that Wien is empty?
[19:09] <Tamerlin>

[19:09] <Gilg> Yes and no......... Now I can just say, we haven't taken it yet !?!?!?!?!?!?
[19:10] * Locutus has joined #lemuria
[19:10] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Locutus
[19:10] <Tamerlin> Hi Locutus
[19:10] <Gilg> Hi Locutus
[19:10] <Locutus> hey
[19:10] <Locutus> sorry, traffic jam...
[19:10] <Locutus> did we start yet?
[19:10] <MartinGuehmann> Hi Locutus
[19:11] <Gilg> Nope
[19:11] <Gilg> Traffic jam on the internet?
[19:11] <Tamerlin> Not yet, Gilgamensch is my delegate tonight as I am not available the Tuesday...
[19:11] * haven.apolyton.net changes topic to 'CtP2 Democracy Game - Turn Chat NOW!!!'
[19:11] <Locutus> I'd wish, gilg - at least those aren't so boring

[19:12] <Gilg> Tell me all about, When you are stucked for 3 hours for just bloody 20 km's, that is boring.........
[19:12] <Tamerlin> Locutus, I was saying Wien seems undefended and that we should stage a quick raid with all the closest available units...
[19:12] <Locutus> how do you know it's undefended?
[19:13] <Gilg> using the little trick with the cursor.........
[19:13] <Pedrunn> cheating
[19:13] <Tamerlin> I have placed the move cursor above Wien to check the number of turns needed to attack from Graz and seen it stayed the same... no crossed swords...
[19:14] <Pedrunn> that mean no swords
[19:14] <Pedrunn> sword = units
[19:14] <Locutus> hmm, does that actually work?
[19:14] <Gilg> Yes, it does
[19:14] <Pedrunn> didnt know about this trick until now
[19:14] <Pedrunn> but they say it does
[19:14] <Tamerlin> It always has as far as I am concerned...
[19:15] <Locutus> I wanna check that myself - let me load the game...
[19:15] <Pedrunn> I guess this means a doubled attack in Wien and Brunn
[19:16] <MartinGuehmann> So looks like we can start in the next minutes.
[19:16] <Tamerlin> I think we must also attack Brunn...
[19:16] <Pedrunn> Should we attack Brunn with a size-9 stack?
[19:16] <MartinGuehmann> We should take first Wien.
[19:16] <Gilg> Yes, if it is empty

[19:16] <Tamerlin>

[19:16] <Pedrunn> Anyway i will be out for 45 mins
[19:16] <Pedrunn> soryy
[19:17] <Gilg> what?????????? We need you !!!!!!!!!
[19:17] <Locutus> stupid question: what mod were we using again? SAP or SAP+GM?
[19:17] <MartinGuehmann> So we could use the Tropau taker and take the city.
[19:17] <Gilg> SAP+GM
[19:17] <Locutus> thx
[19:17] <Gilg> Martin, Yes
[19:17] <Gilg> Locutus, you are welcome
[19:18] <Pedrunn> sorry...
[19:18] <Tamerlin> No problem, just tell us if you agree attacking Brunn and Wien now...
[19:18] <MartinGuehmann> Actual the Tropau takers are too far away, so an attck from Graz would the best way.
[19:18] <Gilg> Pedrunn, feel ashamed

go in the corner and come back in 45 minutes
[19:19] <Tamerlin> The raid on Wien should be launched from Graz indeed...
[19:20] <Gilg> Yes, 2nd. Tamerlin
[19:21] <Pedrunn> Do you think the size-9 stack can take care of Brunn?
[19:22] <Locutus> Okay, nice trip. Or rather, stupid bug. But I would count on a large stack being just outside Wien though...
[19:22] <Locutus> trip = trck
[19:22] <Locutus> trick
[19:22] <MartinGuehmann> The size 9 stack is a little bit damaged.
[19:22] <Tamerlin> We could use one or two additional entertainers and send all the troops from Graz... the Brunn question is tricky, it's a rather small city...
[19:22] <MartinGuehmann> Maybe we already saw the Wien defence.

[19:23] <Locutus> the 2 damaged hoplites should go back to a friendly city ASAP
[19:23] <Gilg> depends.. if Brunn is undefended we could still take it with those
[19:23] <MartinGuehmann> Brunn is defended.
[19:23] <Locutus> how many units were in Troppau?
[19:24] <MartinGuehmann> IIRC there were five units.
[19:24] <Locutus> ouch, we need a considerable army for Brunn then...
[19:24] <Tamerlin> I guess we can count on the same number of units...
[19:24] <Pedrunn> Lets attack Wien first with a size 12 stack and a size 9 as back up! As planned and ignorating the trick. Then with the survivors we attack Brunn! Any objection?
[19:24] <Locutus> not huge, but the 7 we now have (the 2 hoplites are practically dead already) are not enough
[19:25] <Tamerlin> No, but if we take Wien we will need units to hold it...
[19:25] <Gilg> If we take Wien, we could put the damaged units in there....
[19:25] <Locutus> wien would be a more desirable target then Brunn, but I expect there to be plenty of troops in the area...
[19:25] <MartinGuehmann> Actual the Austrian military potential is already reduced.
[19:25] <Tamerlin> The 9 units stack is too far away...
[19:25] <Locutus> but if we attack with 2 stacks at the same time we may be able to go around them
[19:26] <Pedrunn> More than 12 + 9?
[19:26] <MartinGuehmann> No
[19:28] <Pedrunn> you mean no objection, martin?
[19:28] <MartinGuehmann> I mean 12 + 9 are enough
[19:28] <Locutus> I would say send the 2 damaged hoplites to pressburg and send 2 fresh hoplites from pressburg plus the 7-stack to wien. also take 12 units from Graz and H Town and send those to Wien. It's a bit of a gamble, but it may well work...
[19:29] <MartinGuehmann> We don't have 12 units right now in Graz
[19:29] <Locutus> graz + H Town
[19:29] <Pedrunn> the two hops will be exchanged in Pressburg indeed
[19:30] <Locutus> together 16 units
[19:30] <Pedrunn> and the 12 units is 7 from H Town 5 from Graz
[19:30] <Locutus> also, add 3 units from Linz and we have 2 12-stacks...
[19:30] <Locutus> indeed, pedrunn
[19:30] <Pedrunn> We still have a size-4 stack near Graz that can join the 9-stack
[19:30] <Locutus> although 6/6 would be better: leaves Graz (lightly) defended
[19:31] <Pedrunn> better than the move from Lins (Too far)
[19:31] <Tamerlin> Unfortunately I must leave, have fun, I will check the result of the Wien raid when I am back from my Role Playing Game...

Bye!
[19:31] <MartinGuehmann> Bye Tamerlin
[19:31] <Pedrunn> Linz is too far and i want to keep the units there to a possible attack in/from Pilsen
[19:32] <Pedrunn> Bye
[19:32] <MartinGuehmann> Actual Linz needs frech Hopelites.
[19:32] <Locutus> agree, pedrunn. but the 4 stack has a damaged hoplite, so remove that one and replace it with one from H Town
[19:32] * Tamerlin has quit IRC (Quit: )
[19:32] <Locutus> so 7 units from H Town, 6 from Graz, 2 from Pressburg and 7+3 'loose' units
[19:33] <Locutus> make that 7+2, as the 4 stack has 1 archer too many
[19:33] <Pedrunn> we just need 3 from the size-4 stack The other can go to CL
[19:33] <Locutus> much
[19:33] <MartinGuehmann> You mean the Tropau takers? They are 9 turns away from Wien.
[19:34] <Pedrunn> yes
[19:34] <Locutus> ped: the 4-st has 2a 1 normal h 1 damaged h. we need 1 A and 2 H, so we can only use 2 units
[19:34] <Pedrunn> And the ones from H Town is 6 turn away
[19:34] <Pedrunn> Not that much of a difference
[19:35] <Locutus> indeed, we can wait 3 turns
[19:35] <Pedrunn> 3 turns is bearable
[19:35] <Locutus> plus, we have to position everyone properly, that will cost 1 or 2 turns as well
[19:36] <MartinGuehmann> OK, let's start any objections?
[19:36] <Pedrunn> So any objection? (just answer yes/No)
[19:36] <Pedrunn> No
[19:36] <Gilg> Quick one in between, I just loaded the save-game and I see a Samurai????????
[19:36] <Gilg> no
[19:36] <Locutus> no
[19:36] <Pedrunn> Yes we have a samurai
[19:37] <MartinGuehmann> Yes there is a Samurai and it is ours.

[19:37] <Locutus> we do? where?
[19:37] <Pedrunn> That must head Linz now

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 20:19

[19:37] <MartinGuehmann> START OF 17TH TURN CHAT
[19:37] <MartinGuehmann> Goodie huts can be

Locutus.

[19:37] <Gilg> It is near Wiener-Neustadt in the south.........
[19:37] <Gilg> Ahhhhhhhhh, didn't know
[19:38] <Pedrunn> ORDER: Mover damaged hops from the Troppau attackers to Pressburg!
[19:38] <Locutus> see it. that's nice. need to get that one home though
[19:38] <Gilg> Martin, do I have to use /reloadslic with the German version?
[19:39] <Locutus> gilg, you're playing along!
[19:39] <Locutus> what is the world coming to

[19:39] <Pedrunn> ORDER: Move Two healthy hops from Pressburg SW, SW, SW (three turns order)
[19:39] <MartinGuehmann> I think Yes Gilg probably I have some additional strings in my version.
[19:39] <Gilg> How, you mean? I just decided to install it finally on this computer as well.......
[19:39] <Pedrunn> No
[19:39] <MartinGuehmann> Moment Pedrun.
[19:39] <Pedrunn> Forget the order
[19:40] <MartinGuehmann> I still have a question about your first order
[19:40] <Pedrunn> I need to go now
[19:40] <Gilg> How do I enter /reloadslic again, can't remember.........
[19:40] <MartinGuehmann> We talked about two damgaed hopelites in that stack
[19:40] <Pedrunn> Loc, can you do this strategy for me
[19:40] <Gilg> See you Pedrunn.......
[19:40] <MartinGuehmann> But there is also a third one, slightly damaged.
[19:40] <Pedrunn> Sorry, see you in 45 mins

[19:41] * Pedrunn has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[19:41] <MartinGuehmann> Gilg just open the chat window by using the apostrophe key.
[19:41] <MartinGuehmann> and enter the command
[19:41] <Locutus> gilg: what?
[19:41] <Locutus> relaodslic: press '
[19:42] <Gilg> OK, but how to close it again (to long ago, I played last.........)
[19:42] <Locutus> press enter
[19:42] <Gilg> *slaps myelf on the forhead*
[19:43] <Locutus> or click outside the text bar and press ' again
[19:43] <MartinGuehmann> OK, Locutus I still have the stack near the former city Tropau. It contains three damaged hopelites.
[19:43] <MartinGuehmann> Two havy damged and one is slightly damaged.
[19:44] <Gilg> Move the damaged ones to Pressburg?
[19:44] <MartinGuehmann> damged -> damaged
[19:44] <Locutus> oops, didn't say the 3rd one. ignore that one, he'll survive (or not

)
[19:44] <Locutus> say = saw
[19:44] <MartinGuehmann> OK I move the heavy damaged ones.
[19:45] <Gilg> done

[19:45] <MartinGuehmann> OK a path was given to Pressburg
[19:45] <MartinGuehmann> Next unit is the warrior GrazPost
[19:45] <MartinGuehmann> First has anyone a good name for that warrior?
[19:45] <Gilg> kill settler?
[19:45] <Locutus> who?
[19:46] <Locutus> where is he on the map?
[19:46] <MartinGuehmann> The warrior near Pilsen
[19:46] <Gilg> name: SW of Pilsen
[19:46] <Gilg> sorry, forget the name:
[19:46] <MartinGuehmann> Rather NW
[19:46] <Locutus> ah, ok. well, killing the settler sounds like a good plan

[19:47] <MartinGuehmann> Well actual the warrior needs a better name.
[19:47] <Gilg> Let's call him: KillSettlers
[19:47] <MartinGuehmann> How much will it cost to kill the settler I mean diplomacically?
[19:47] <Gilg> We are at war, so shouldn't matter.
[19:48] <Locutus> do austrians have a nickname? like yankees, ruskis, poms, cheeseheads, jerries?
[19:48] <MartinGuehmann> I think it gives a regard lost anyway. It is a civilian.
[19:48] <MartinGuehmann> Yes Ösis.
[19:48] <Gilg> When I remember right, they are called Schluchtenscheisser......
[19:48] <Locutus> we're at war and the austrians will be dead soon - who cares?

[19:49] <MartinGuehmann> So kill it?
[19:49] <Gilg> Martin, we haven't invented the Genfer Konventionen yet.........
[19:49] <Gilg> Yes
[19:49] <Locutus> ah, of course. Let's call it Osibuster then

[19:49] <MartinGuehmann> Doesn't matter for the game, I could open the text file
[19:49] <Locutus> yeah, kill it
[19:49] <Gilg>

[19:50] <Gilg> done
[19:50] <MartinGuehmann> Ösibuster killed a settler of the Ösis.
[19:50] <Locutus> Or Oesibuster, to be precise

[19:50] <MartinGuehmann> And I did not kill the guy last turn.
[19:51] <MartinGuehmann> So now I have Goodsight, Should I group him with the Samurai?
[19:51] <Gilg> no, I would say, one moves west (goodsight) and the samurai east and then north, or?
[19:51] <Locutus> no, I say let the Samurai go towards Linz/Wien and let the Warrior explore...
[19:52] <MartinGuehmann> The Samurai has only a vision range of one.
[19:52] <Gilg> shugar, forgotten about this one........
[19:52] <Locutus> I know, but why waste a good recon unit? there's a warrior north of it, move it towards him and let them go back together if needed...
[19:53] <MartinGuehmann> OK I move the Samurai North
[19:53] <Gilg> Sounds good, but which way?
[19:53] <Locutus> uhm, you may want to go around Wiener Neustadt...
[19:54] <Locutus> or it won't get very far...
[19:54] <MartinGuehmann> Yes and of course around the forest, too.
[19:54] <Gilg>

[19:54] <MartinGuehmann> So NW and then N would be my suggestion.
[19:54] <Gilg> How about if we move goodsight onto the forest and then see?
[19:55] <MartinGuehmann> I also could move the Samurai two times NW.
[19:55] <Locutus> I would say go E-NE and around the LOS of Neustads...
[19:55] <Gilg> would be further the way........
[19:55] <Locutus> 2x NW would be good too, but just go around the LOS of Neustadt
[19:56] <MartinGuehmann> And we would go through forest
[19:56] <MartinGuehmann> LOS?
[19:56] <Gilg> NW and Forest?
[19:56] <Gilg> Los of sight
[19:56] <Locutus> Line of Sight
[19:56] <Locutus> in this case, the city radius
[19:56] <MartinGuehmann> So I would still use the West way.
[19:57] <Locutus> fine with me
[19:57] <Gilg> OK
[19:57] <MartinGuehmann> OK that would be NW NW
[19:57] <Locutus> NW NW NW even
[19:57] <Gilg> NW NW NW even?
[19:58] <MartinGuehmann> Yes but not this turn, I am doing it.
[19:58] <Locutus> yup, the west route requires 3 moves NW followed by 2 N to avoid the city radius
[19:58] <Gilg> Ahhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!
[19:58] <Locutus> good point, hadn't considered the 2 MPs

[19:58] <Locutus> what?
[19:58] <Gilg> What, WHat?
[19:58] <Locutus> what ahhhhhhhh?
[19:59] <Gilg> About the LOS with the NW NW NW.....
[19:59] <MartinGuehmann> So, next unit is Goodsight
[19:59] <Locutus> ah, ok. whatever

[19:59] <Gilg> Goodsight South?
[19:59] <Locutus> west
[19:59] <Locutus> or south

[20:00] <Locutus> both are fine with me
[20:00] <MartinGuehmann> West would be a good idea I want to explore the region around Stirling.
[20:00] <MartinGuehmann> But also South is a good idea.
[20:00] <Locutus> there are 2 ruins in the west, let's go west...
[20:01] <Gilg> What about SW, we would also avoid direct possible encounter?
[20:01] <Gilg> In other words let's move him SW, NW, SW, NW......
[20:01] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah let's do this.
[20:01] <Locutus> fine with me
[20:02] <Gilg> So goodsight SW?
[20:02] <MartinGuehmann> Goodsight moved one SW.
[20:02] <Locutus> LOL, just noticed Oesibuster became a veteran after killing the settler - apparently it takes a lot of skill to slaughter civilians

[20:02] <MartinGuehmann> Next units to move are the remaining Tropau takers.
[20:02] <Gilg> Not for me

[20:03] <Gilg> The veteran I mean
[20:03] <Gilg> Troups, yes the same
[20:03] <Locutus> SW, follow the mountains while we can
[20:03] <Gilg> SW? direction Brunn?
[20:03] <Locutus> yup
[20:04] <Locutus> extra defence and allows us to reveal some black tiles in a few turns
[20:04] <MartinGuehmann> Yes, that is a good idea.
[20:04] <Gilg> Yep..........
[20:04] <MartinGuehmann> OK I am doing it, the whole stack one SW.
[20:04] <Gilg> Haven't got anything else to move?
[20:05] <MartinGuehmann> Done all units moved.
[20:05] <Locutus> yes. the 2 hoplites from pressburg, the 4 loose units outside graz
[20:05] <MartinGuehmann> No riots in our cities.
[20:05] <Gilg> Where is the 4 stack moving near Pedrunnia?
[20:06] <Locutus> sorry, the 4-stack already moved. we still need to move the 2 units from pressburg though, or they may not make it to wien in time...
[20:06] <MartinGuehmann> So what is the best direction for them?
[20:07] <Gilg> I just had a play with the PW, we could increase to 10% and only two cities would need 1 turn more, how you think?
[20:07] <Locutus> 3 times S - to the river N of Graz
[20:07] <Locutus> which 2 cities?
[20:07] <MartinGuehmann> And it should be two Hopelites.
[20:08] <Locutus> yes, 2H
[20:08] <Gilg> Maq and Locutus
[20:08] <Locutus> shall we RB the hoplite in pressburg?
[20:08] <Locutus> takes 2 turns, costs 513
[20:09] <Locutus> leaves the city better defended
[20:09] <Locutus> (with 2 units moving out and all)
[20:09] <Gilg> Locutus, whz 3 * S?
[20:09] <Gilg> whz = why
[20:09] <Locutus> that's the shortest route

[20:09] <Locutus> after that we follow the river for a few tiles
[20:09] <MartinGuehmann> I think we should rushbuy, but then I increase the PW tax to 80%
[20:09] <Gilg> I see road from Press to H and further it would be faster........
[20:10] <Gilg> RB, not yet, don't forget the towers we are building.........
[20:10] <Locutus> martin: sounds like a good plan. do you have instructions for spending the PW? (haven't been on the forums much lately)
[20:11] <MartinGuehmann> I think from the last time there is something left.
[20:11] <Locutus> however, you may want to wait 1 turn with that: graz and HT are also 1 turn away from finishing 2 highly needed units
[20:12] <MartinGuehmann> OK
[20:12] <Gilg> So what about the press units?
[20:12] <Locutus> we moved 2 S already, I think...
[20:12] <Locutus> 2H that is
[20:12] <Gilg> 2H 1S?
[20:12] <MartinGuehmann> No
[20:13] <Gilg> But with the road wouldn't it be faster to move through H ?
[20:14] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah we can move them through H Town.
[20:14] <Locutus> I just noticed an oddity with that: with 2H selected the autopath uses the road, with 2H 2A selected it goes S

[20:14] <MartinGuehmann> Probably the city is full.
[20:14] <Locutus> the road is faster, so yeah, use that.
[20:14] <Locutus> good point...
[20:14] <MartinGuehmann> Yup the city is full of nine units.
[20:14] <Gilg> We have 9 units in H Town..........
[20:14] <MartinGuehmann> So should we also use some of them?
[20:15] <Locutus> we already have plans for most of them

[20:15] <Locutus> next turn, or the turn after that 7 will be used for the 2nd 12-stack
[20:16] <MartinGuehmann> OK, I move the Pressburg ones to H Town.
[20:16] <Gilg> OK
[20:16] <Locutus> or 6, with 1 replacing the lightly damaged unit in the 7-stack
[20:16] <Locutus> but that's for later
[20:16] <MartinGuehmann> OK I am moving the ones from Pressburg to H Town.
[20:17] <Locutus> do you see a settler too?
[20:17] <Gilg> Yes
[20:17] <Gilg> Martin, what about you?
[20:17] <MartinGuehmann> Yes, an English settler, but we can't expell it.
[20:17] <Gilg> Why?
[20:17] <Locutus> if so, I say kick it. either way, I gotta go. be back in 10 mins...
[20:17] * Locutus is now known as Locutus|BRB
[20:18] <Gilg> Martin, why can't we expell it?
[20:18] <MartinGuehmann> Because we need a unit for that task that has 100 move points left.
[20:18] <MartinGuehmann> A Hopelite has only 100 move points per turn.
[20:18] <Gilg> forgotten, we only have 100 mp........
[20:18] <MartinGuehmann> And we already used 33 MP.
[20:19] <Gilg> Let's wait for Locutus to be back?
[20:19] <Gilg> I want to go for a smoking break :-) Immer diese Raucher........
[20:19] <MartinGuehmann> Well in that case I expell a German settler near Maquidad.
[20:19] <Gilg> try

he might obey
[20:20] <MartinGuehmann> He is already gone.

[20:24] <Gilg> Good, and I am back
[20:24] <MartinGuehmann> That was fast.
[20:25] <Gilg> Didn't taste so I finished
[20:25] <Gilg> How you think about the 10% PW-rate?
[20:26] <MartinGuehmann> I think we do the 80% next two turns.
[20:26] <Gilg> No, at least not what Locutus said, we have some nearly finished units, which we need
[20:27] <MartinGuehmann> Only 88 PW would the 10% PW tax give us per turn.
[20:27] <Gilg> Yes, but for 'free' Only 2 cities would need 1 turn more
[20:27] <MartinGuehmann> OK we do it.
[20:28] <Gilg> What about the German settler near H Town?
[20:28] <MartinGuehmann> We can't expell it and next turn it is somewhere else.
[20:29] <Gilg> We could block him and then expell........or?
[20:29] <Gilg> Can't remember do they ignore ZOC or not?
[20:29] <MartinGuehmann> We can't block the settler it ignores ZOC
[20:29] <Gilg> OK, never mind then.......
[20:29] <MartinGuehmann> Civilian units do.
[20:30] <MartinGuehmann> OK end turn now?
[20:30] <Gilg> did you move the 2HP into H Town?
[20:30] <MartinGuehmann> Yes.
[20:30] <MartinGuehmann> So any other unit to move?
[20:30] <Gilg> Let's wait for Locutus?
[20:30] <Gilg> Just checking
[20:31] <MartinGuehmann> Why should we wait for Locutus?
[20:31] <Gilg> Just in case he thinks of something?
[20:31] <Gilg> What about diplomatic offers?
[20:32] <MartinGuehmann> I don't think we should offer anything now the Hebrew rejected the last Peace offer so I don't spend another 100 gold now.
[20:32] <Gilg> That's OK, but by the way, for me the German like us????????
[20:33] <MartinGuehmann> Yes, we have a peace treaty.
[20:33] <MartinGuehmann> So end turn now?
[20:33] <Gilg> OK, if you can't wait any longer

[20:33] <MartinGuehmann> END OF TURN 127

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 20:29

[20:34] <Gilg> No good news, do you see the 12-stack (english) as well?
[20:34] <Locutus|BRB> back
[20:35] * Locutus|BRB is now known as Locutus
[20:35] <MartinGuehmann> Yes I see the stack and it is a Hebrew one.
[20:35] <Gilg> ups, sorry.......
[20:35] <Gilg> Locutus we are now in T127
[20:36] <MartinGuehmann> It is turn 128
[20:36] <Gilg> sorry, yes you are right
[20:36] <MartinGuehmann> PW was set to 10% last turn.
[20:36] <Gilg> the german 12 stack moved away from map?
[20:36] <Locutus> the 12 stack is jewish, not english
[20:37] <MartinGuehmann> No the Germans are now going to our size 8 stack.
[20:37] <Locutus> it's still there on my map
[20:37] <Locutus> n-nw of mp for me
[20:37] <Gilg> great for me they moved away from mapfi, still visible though......
[20:38] <Gilg> For me it is N-NE.........
[20:38] <MartinGuehmann> NW NW for me.
[20:38] <MartinGuehmann> OK what sould we do with the units between MP and CL?
[20:39] <MartinGuehmann> Best thing would be now to move them inside CL.
[20:39] <Gilg> move them into CL?
[20:39] <MartinGuehmann> And change the build queue next turn there to city walls.
[20:40] <Locutus> fine with me
[20:40] <Gilg> Yes
[20:41] <MartinGuehmann> Done and I inserted city walls after the archer that is finised next turn.
[20:41] <Gilg> What about the 4-stack?
[20:42] <MartinGuehmann> Yes we sould now move it.
[20:42] <Gilg> Where to?
[20:43] <Locutus> move them and 7 units from H Town to Graz over the roadnetwork
[20:43] <Locutus> (4H 3A)
[20:44] <Gilg> Should do the job.........
[20:44] <MartinGuehmann> Then they would be in front of Graz and the German settler one South.
[20:44] <Locutus> they should meet E of graz. what we do next turn depends on the jewish...
[20:44] <MartinGuehmann> So should the settler escape?
[20:44] <Gilg> How do you want to stop him?
[20:45] <Locutus> we can't, so don't bother

[20:45] <Gilg> Unless you would use a unit from womb.....
[20:46] <MartinGuehmann> Well we could move the 4 size stack one SW and W. I think the settler is on the way South, then we would have him.
[20:46] <Gilg> We could use the damaged archer for it.
[20:46] <Locutus> the attack on Wien is more important. units from Ped and Womb can take care of the settler if needed
[20:46] <MartinGuehmann> Well a unit from Wombatoon or Linz should stop him.
[20:46] <Gilg> And the rest of the 4 stack as planned?
[20:47] <Locutus> although, 2 units from the 4-stack we don't need anyway, we can split the stack
[20:47] <MartinGuehmann> OK I move the 4 size stak to a position East of Graz.
[20:47] <Gilg> wait
[20:47] <Locutus> wait
[20:47] <Gilg> Let's use the damaged archer, we leave him in Graz afterwards.........
[20:48] <MartinGuehmann> You mean the 4 size stack, it only contains a damaged Hopelite.
[20:48] <Gilg> Sorry hoplite

[20:48] <Locutus> use the damaged hoplite to block the settler SW-W as you suggested) and move the other 3 to graz
[20:48] <Gilg> Yes !
[20:49] <MartinGuehmann> OK I am doing it.
[20:49] <MartinGuehmann> Done.
[20:49] <Locutus> you see the barb?
[20:49] <Gilg> Which barb?
[20:50] <MartinGuehmann> No Barbs there.
[20:50] <Locutus> okay. nm then
[20:50] <MartinGuehmann> OK next units.
[20:50] <Gilg> H Town...what and where?
[20:51] <Gilg> Just seen we need a entertainer in Maq......
[20:52] <Locutus> the units from pressburg S-W; 3A 4H towards Graz
[20:52] <MartinGuehmann> Added an entertainer to Maquidad.
[20:53] <Gilg> Why 3A 4H? We have some more in H town........
[20:54] <MartinGuehmann> With the three units near Graz we have then there a size 8 army with 4 H and 4 A
[20:54] <Locutus> we need to leave some defenders behind
[20:54] <MartinGuehmann> Yes and some entertainers.

[20:55] <Gilg> I am lost........we want to use 3A 4H add 3 units on top and we get only 8??????????
[20:55] <Gilg> We are still having 6 units in H Town.........
[20:55] <Gilg> And three cities producing..........
[20:55] <MartinGuehmann> Well actual that is then a size 10 army.
[20:56] <Locutus> 6 units from Graz plus 6 from H Town form 1 12-stack. the 7th unit from Graz plus 2 units from the 4-stack reinforce the 7-stack
[20:56] <Locutus> that leaves 3 units to defend HT, 2 in Graz (and 2 outside any city, they can go to Graz)
[20:57] <Gilg> Ok, let's start again
[20:57] <MartinGuehmann> OK, moving now the size 7 stack in H Town three times South to the three units East of Graz?
[20:57] <Gilg> We use 3A 4H from H Town? correct?
[20:57] <MartinGuehmann> Yes
[20:57] <Locutus> with PW at 80% (assuming we still wanna do that) we're not gonna build any units anytime soon, so we have to be careful how to use the ones we have...
[20:58] <Locutus> yes
[20:58] <Gilg> Yes
[20:58] <MartinGuehmann> So I am doing it now with the 7 units from Graz.
[20:58] <Locutus> k
[20:58] <Gilg> o
[20:59] <MartinGuehmann> Actual Graz -> H Town
[20:59] <Locutus> knock out?

[20:59] <MartinGuehmann> These units were moved 3 times South.
[20:59] <Gilg> couldn't resist

[20:59] <MartinGuehmann> So we have now the units from Pressburg in H Town.
[21:00] <Locutus> no, they move S-W
[21:00] <Gilg> ???????????????????????????
[21:00] <Locutus> sorry, misread you
[21:00] <Locutus> they move S-W
[21:00] <MartinGuehmann> You mean SouthWest?
[21:00] <Locutus> no, south and then W.
[21:00] <Gilg> I thought they already moved with the other stack 3/4
[21:01] <Locutus> to the river
[21:01] <Locutus> gilg: that works too but is a bit slower - I would feel more comfi if the 7-stack is reinforced ASAP
[21:01] <Gilg> k
[21:02] <MartinGuehmann>

I took the wrong stack.
[21:02] <Locutus> hmm... the defenders?
[21:02] <MartinGuehmann> Yes.
[21:02] <Locutus> hmmm...
[21:02] <MartinGuehmann> The two hopelites are still in the city.
[21:02] <Locutus> 2 or 3?
[21:03] <MartinGuehmann> 3
[21:03] <Gilg> so you just send 2A?
[21:03] <Locutus> hmmm... I wouldn't want to leave the city undefended...
[21:03] * Pedrunn has joined #Lemuria
[21:03] <MartinGuehmann> Well I could move one hopelite
[21:03] <Pedrunn> Hi all
[21:03] <Pedrunn> Many turns already

[21:03] <Locutus> so we could reload and repeat the moves or simply delay the 2 Hs for one turn
[21:03] <MartinGuehmann> and leave the other one there and outgroup the archers.
[21:04] <Locutus> 1 hoplite is not save - too vulnerable
[21:04] <MartinGuehmann> Are two hopelites save?
[21:04] <Locutus> saver than 1

[21:04] <MartinGuehmann> Of course.
[21:04] <Gilg> but just a bit..............
[21:04] <Pedrunn> Seem like thing are not that good.
[21:04] <Gilg> Hi Pedrunn, just a mistake by the pres.........
[21:04] <MartinGuehmann> Just a small mistake.
[21:04] <Locutus> an AI will ambush 1 units, but it might think twice when there are 2
[21:05] <Gilg> let's delay the re-inforcement of the 7 stack.........
[21:06] <MartinGuehmann> Well we can delay it, the Tropau takers still needs more turns then the delay.
[21:06] <MartinGuehmann> then -> than
[21:06] <Pedrunn> How many turns did we moved after my depart
[21:06] <Pedrunn> ?
[21:06] <MartinGuehmann> 1
[21:06] <Locutus> where exactly are the 3 displaced defenders now, Martin?
[21:07] <MartinGuehmann> Were the right units should go S and W
[21:07] <Locutus> ah, ok. in that case, leave the pressburg units as they are and we'll correct it next turn
[21:08] <MartinGuehmann> OK, next unit.
[21:08] <Gilg> ok
[21:08] <MartinGuehmann> Actual army, the Tropau takers.
[21:08] <MartinGuehmann> So one again SW?
[21:08] <Locutus> yup, along the mountain range
[21:08] <Gilg> yes
[21:08] <Pedrunn> Can you post a screenshot or the saved so that i can play along after this discussion?
[21:09] <MartinGuehmann> Done.
[21:09] <MartinGuehmann> OK a savegame.
[21:11] <Gilg> Martin, I just installed CTP2 and I still use blue, why is yours red?
[21:11] <Gilg> I know it had been asked.........
[21:11] <Pedrunn> he change the colors00.txt
[21:11] <Locutus> because he's weird

[21:11] <Pedrunn>

[21:11] <Locutus> he defected to the barbs!
[21:12] <Gilg> that's why

[21:12] <MartinGuehmann> And the answer can be still found in the savegame thread.
[21:12] <MartinGuehmann> Savegame is posted.
[21:12] <Gilg> next unit?
[21:12] <MartinGuehmann> Next unit to move is our First Samurai.
[21:13] <Pedrunn> Good! Continue the discussion i keep up with ypu in a minute
[21:13] <MartinGuehmann> So the best way would be around the city radius.
[21:13] <Locutus> yup
[21:13] <Locutus> from memory NW-N (loading the new savegame now, can't check)
[21:13] <Gilg> yup
[21:13] <MartinGuehmann> That would be NW And N
[21:13] <Locutus> wow, apolyton is slow...
[21:14] <Locutus> only 8 kb/s...
[21:14] <MartinGuehmann> For me it was fast, I mean the uploading.
[21:14] <MartinGuehmann> Well in the mean time I move the Samurai NW N.
[21:14] <Gilg> Why, it finished already and I just started (more or less)
[21:14] <Gilg> Yup
[21:15] <MartinGuehmann> Done.
[21:15] <Gilg> Next one?
[21:15] <MartinGuehmann> Maybe he uses the wrong browser.
[21:15] <Gilg>

[21:15] <MartinGuehmann> Next one is Goodsight.
[21:15] <Gilg> OK, NW?
[21:15] <MartinGuehmann> Last time we moved him SW, so NW indeed.
[21:15] <Locutus> okay, moved the samurai too
[21:15] <Locutus> goodsight? that's the one near the samurai, right?
[21:16] <Gilg> yup
[21:16] <MartinGuehmann> Yes
[21:16] <Locutus> nm. yes, now
[21:16] <Locutus> nw
[21:16] <MartinGuehmann> Doing it.
[21:16] <MartinGuehmann> Done, next unit is Bait.
[21:17] <Gilg> West?
[21:17] <MartinGuehmann> Well finally we enter Celtic or German territory.
[21:17] <Locutus> I guess west works okay
[21:17] <MartinGuehmann> But West would be good for now.
[21:17] <MartinGuehmann> So I am moving Bait.
[21:18] <Pedrunn> I like SW the best
[21:18] <MartinGuehmann> Why SW Pedrunn?
[21:18] <Gilg> When I see it right there is some Oessi-territory around.........
[21:18] <Pedrunn> In case of war is closer to Germans
[21:18] <Gilg> Forget it, it is Cletic.........
[21:18] <Locutus> what's 1 unit gonna do

[21:19] <Gilg> Take a undefended city

[21:19] <Locutus> plus, if they wanted war they would have attacked already (I hope

)
[21:19] <Pedrunn> spy
[21:19] <MartinGuehmann> Break a withdraw treaty, if we enter Celtic territory.
[21:19] <MartinGuehmann> OK W or SW?
[21:19] <Gilg> Get a helicopter and move him back?
[21:19] <Pedrunn>

[21:19] <Locutus> nomrally I wouldn't care but I already moved my unit

[21:19] <Pedrunn> I say SW but i not much difference if west
[21:20] <Gilg> whatever.......
[21:20] <Pedrunn> I am ok with west then
[21:20] <Gilg> Martin?
[21:20] <MartinGuehmann> OK moved West and we revealed an English two size stck of two settlers.
[21:21] <Locutus> yup, see that too
[21:21] <Pedrunn> yep. Two settlers
[21:21] <MartinGuehmann> Next units are new defenders in Linz and Pedrunnia. So group them?
[21:22] <MartinGuehmann> No answer is also an answer so I group them.
[21:22] <Pedrunn> From Pedrunnia mve one to CL
[21:22] <Locutus> fine with me
[21:23] <Locutus> that's my respone to both martin and pedrunn

[21:23] <Pedrunn> Lets expel the german setter
[21:23] <Gilg> OK
[21:23] <Pedrunn> And increase the defenses in CL
[21:23] <MartinGuehmann> We cannot do it.
[21:23] <Pedrunn> not this turn
[21:24] <MartinGuehmann> Defences are already increased in CL and next turn we get an archer there.
[21:24] <Pedrunn> Move a archer
[21:24] <Pedrunn> Oh. So lets move it just to disband germans
[21:24] <Pedrunn> settler
[21:24] <Pedrunn> an archer
[21:24] <Pedrunn> since it has a bigger vision radius
[21:25] <MartinGuehmann> You mean expell?
[21:25] <Pedrunn> yes expel
[21:25] <Pedrunn>

[21:25] <Pedrunn> Did we moved the samurai this turn?
[21:26] <Gilg> Yes
[21:26] <MartinGuehmann> Yes
[21:26] <Pedrunn> where?
[21:26] <Locutus> NW-N
[21:26] <MartinGuehmann> OK I move one Archer from Pedrunnia now two time East.
[21:26] <Pedrunn> thanks
[21:26] <Gilg> ok
[21:27] <MartinGuehmann> Done.

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 20:30

[21:27] <MartinGuehmann> Next unit is Ösibuster.
[21:27] <Pedrunn> what does this word mean?
[21:27] <MartinGuehmann> He should go in direction of the ruins.
[21:27] <Gilg>

[21:28] <MartinGuehmann> Östereicher == Austrians
[21:28] <Pedrunn>

[21:28] <MartinGuehmann> So my suggestion for him is SW or S.
[21:28] <Gilg> We named it Oesibuster because we killed an Austrian settler

[21:28] <Locutus> yeah, to the ruins ASAP
[21:29] <Pedrunn> IMy is W, S
[21:29] <Gilg> S?
[21:29] <Pedrunn> we still get t see the unexplored area
[21:29] <MartinGuehmann> We can also go W and then S S
[21:29] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah that is a good idea Pedrunn.
[21:29] <Locutus> sounds good (WSS)
[21:30] <MartinGuehmann> So I am doing it.
[21:30] <Gilg> ok
[21:30] <MartinGuehmann> Ösibuster moved one West.
[21:30] <Pedrunn> Not much too see. More hill and forest
[21:30] <MartinGuehmann> OK now we have new defenders in Graz.
[21:31] <MartinGuehmann> Group them?
[21:31] <Locutus> 8 units there, right?
[21:31] <MartinGuehmann> Yes
[21:31] <Pedrunn> I say keep then there this turn
[21:31] <Gilg> Yes
[21:31] <Locutus> this turn they should stay
[21:31] <Locutus> next turn hopefully they can move
[21:31] <Gilg> We need an entertainer in H Town !!!!
[21:32] <MartinGuehmann> They are grouped, no more units to move.
[21:32] <Gilg> We need an entertainer in H Town !!!!
[21:32] <Pedrunn> True
[21:32] <MartinGuehmann> One entertainer added to H Town.
[21:33] <Pedrunn> So end turn?
[21:33] <MartinGuehmann> So what is our next research goal?
[21:33] <MartinGuehmann> Should we continue researching slave labor?
[21:33] <Gilg> Yes, we could speed up production
[21:33] <Pedrunn> Thats for Loc
[21:33] <Locutus> uhm, good question. I didn't poll because I thought I wasn't MoDST anymore... but I am...
[21:33] <Gilg> at least till tomorrow

[21:33] <Locutus> slave labour sounds good
[21:34] <MartinGuehmann> OK any objections?
[21:34] <Locutus> I'll resign after this chat

[21:34] <Gilg> no way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[21:34] <Gilg> Let's leave PW at 10% ???????
[21:34] <MartinGuehmann> And who will be MoDST until the end of the election?
[21:34] <Pedrunn> Slave labour sound good.
[21:34] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah leave PW at 10% now.
[21:35] <Locutus> martin: noone. it's less than 24h, during which I'll be absent anyway

[21:35] <Locutus> (sleeping+uni)
[21:35] <Gilg> You want to sleep, no way.........
[21:36] <MartinGuehmann> Well you have a delegate.
[21:36] <Gilg> For the MoDSaT, it would need to be a willing citizen, as the person resigning is not willing to run anymore in his office

[21:36] <Pedrunn> The Senior Justice can find a eplacement (I hope)
[21:36] <Locutus> I'm willing nor able (i.e. allowed to)
[21:36] <Gilg> But the Senior justice anounced he might not be around

[21:37] <Pedrunn>

That a scary picture
[21:37] <Locutus> well, I could be wrong but I don't think the Con says all 3 judges have to agree - 1 could suffice

[21:37] <Gilg> We always knew you fiddled with the elections, you now even announced it

[21:37] <Locutus> I did?
[21:37] <Gilg> Which judge? H Tower is on Holiday, Mapfi not sure if he is back and Frozzy is off sick.......
[21:38] <Gilg> I'm willing nor able .............
[21:38] <Locutus> hmmm, that could be a problem...
[21:38] <MartinGuehmann> Have we something for that case in the conny?
[21:38] <Gilg> No, we don't............
[21:38] <Locutus> oh well, we'll just have to a wait a little while longer until we can have a turn chat again...
[21:38] <MartinGuehmann> Well we could do a resolution then.
[21:38] <Pedrunn> Dont think so
[21:39] <Gilg> Only an amendment would help
[21:39] <Pedrunn> I rather play the game chat.
[21:39] <MartinGuehmann> Yes, resolutions have to be recorded by the court.
[21:39] <Pedrunn> Some unnoficial/resolution polls would do the trick.
[21:39] <MartinGuehmann> Well Locutus you could appoint a delegate.
[21:40] <Locutus> no I can't. that way I would still be the holder of the office...
[21:40] <Gilg> Again it needs to be confirmed by the court.........
[21:40] <Locutus> I'll PM the Court members requesting them to appoint a temp ASAP
[21:41] <Pedrunn> Continue in the MoDST function Loc. And let the Pres be the delegate to join together the discussion on the diplomacy issue
[21:42] <Pedrunn> Just to have someone in position for now
[21:42] <Locutus> ped: the con doesn't allow it...
[21:42] <Gilg> Actually, As Mapfi's case hasn't been ruled apon, do both jobs

[21:42] <Pedrunn> Where
[21:43] <Pedrunn> I say continue in your position but dont do nothing
[21:43] <Pedrunn> Since you cant
[21:44] <Pedrunn> The Pres can decide the diplomacy in the chats if he is the delegate
[21:44] <Pedrunn> And i or other people could start some unnofifical polls
[21:45] <Locutus> ped: No citizen may be a candidate for an elected office if such candidacy might cause this citizen to be in more than one elected office simultaneously.
[21:45] <Locutus> this implies it's not allowed to hold two offices
[21:45] <Gilg> BUT: Pres is not an office

[21:45] <Locutus> it is
[21:45] <Gilg> Where?
[21:45] <Pedrunn> I see
[21:46] <Pedrunn> Gilg can you pretend to be the MoDST

[21:46] <Locutus> gilg: The members of the Executive Branch are called ministers and the positions in the Exective Branch are called ministerial offices or executive offices
[21:46] <Gilg> I can try at least

[21:46] <Locutus> prez is an EB position
[21:46] <Pedrunn> Didnt like this rule
[21:47] <Gilg> wait, not really
[21:47] <Pedrunn> and still is interpretation of the CON
[21:47] <Locutus> I do. 1 person holding several offices is very undemocratic and asking for trouble
[21:47] <Gilg> First, the pres has the title Pres and not minister of Pres, so.........
[21:47] <Pedrunn> Just a question of name
[21:47] <Pedrunn> The President still is a office
[21:48] <Pedrunn> We could call it Prime Minister if you like

[21:48] <Gilg> But we could use this to continue the game till election finished.........
[21:48] <Locutus> ped: yes, and the Court should do that, until then, I'm not gonna risk being impeached

[21:48] <Gilg> impeached out of the MoDSaT?
[21:48] <Locutus> or pres
[21:48] <Locutus> either way, it may be illegal, so until the court decides otherwise I regard it illegal (and I think it should be as well)
[21:48] <Gilg> From the connie, it would be a grey area, so in the best interrest of the game we should do so...............
[21:49] <Pedrunn> Lets move on. Leave the resignation for tomorrow
[21:49] <Gilg>

[21:49] <Locutus> indeed, let's move on
[21:49] <Pedrunn> Nobody will want to impeach you anyway
[21:49] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah leave it for tomorrow.
[21:49] <Pedrunn> So end turn
[21:49] <Gilg> Diplo????????
[21:49] <Pedrunn>

[21:49] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah Diplo?
[21:49] <Pedrunn> give gold to someone?
[21:49] <Locutus> ped: I don't care. It should IMHO be illegal to hold two offices, so I'm not gonna do something that's against my own principles

[21:50] <MartinGuehmann> So Diplo?
[21:50] <Locutus> what kind of diplo? I can't think of anythin...
[21:50] <MartinGuehmann> So end Turn?
[21:50] <Gilg> OK
[21:50] <Locutus> either we already have treaties or they hate us anyway

[21:50] <Pedrunn> lets try a peace with someone?
[21:51] <MartinGuehmann> I think this doesn't work without giving money.
[21:51] <Pedrunn> oh! I meant pacts
[21:51] <MartinGuehmann> a trade pact
[21:51] <Pedrunn> Lets end turn then
[21:51] <Locutus> not much use without trade...
[21:51] <Gilg>

[21:51] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah end Turn?
[21:51] <Locutus> end turn
[21:51] <Gilg> k
[21:51] <MartinGuehmann> END OF TURN 128

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 20:31

[21:52] <Pedrunn> Expel every settler!!!
[21:52] <MartinGuehmann> Well and again an Austrian suicide mission
[21:53] <Locutus> yeah, expell settlers
[21:53] <Locutus> what suicide mission?
[21:53] <MartinGuehmann> I post a screenie.
[21:53] <Pedrunn> They look like CTP2 modders, they are everwhere!!!
[21:53] <Gilg> I just had a SLIC-error
[21:53] <Gilg> index out of bound.............
[21:54] <Pedrunn> you shouldnt ply with debuggslic on
[21:54] <Pedrunn> Yet in what file?
[21:54] <MartinGuehmann> I did not had a slic error and I am playing with DebugSlic=Yes
[21:54] <MartinGuehmann> Probably diplomod
[21:54] <Gilg> GM1_diplomod,slc
[21:54] <Locutus> gilg: set debugslic=no in userprofile.txt
[21:54] <MartinGuehmann> You have to set numplayers on 13
[21:55] <Gilg> *slaps himself on the forhead*
[21:55] <Gilg> new save game?
[21:55] <Locutus> surely you can still play on?
[21:55] <Locutus> or did your game crash altogether?
[21:56] <Gilg> it didn't crash yet...........
[21:56] <Gilg> just a lot of errors.........
[21:56] <MartinGuehmann> No it just a bunch of slic errors.
[21:56] <MartinGuehmann> I had them also in my first turn chat. And setting NumPlayer=13 will help once you realoaded slic again.
[21:56] <Locutus> then save and exit the game (when you're done

), update userprofile.txt and reload the savegame
[21:57] <MartinGuehmann> Oh and the screenie is online.
[21:57] <Locutus> what martin says might be easier (if it indeed works)

[21:57] <MartinGuehmann> Pedrunn you started the game with NumPlayers on 13?
[21:58] <Gilg> it finished with the error-messages, so I'll do as Martin says

[21:58] <Pedrunn> No i think it was 12
[21:59] <Pedrunn> think = pretty sure
[21:59] <Gilg> sure?
[21:59] <MartinGuehmann> Well in that case it will work, too.
[22:00] <MartinGuehmann> If 12 does not work it was 13.
[22:00] <Gilg> but 13 or 12?
[22:00] <MartinGuehmann> I have 13
[22:00] <Gilg> OK, you are the master

[22:00] <Pedrunn>

[22:01] <MartinGuehmann> Well we have 12 civilisations in the game + the Brabs makes 13
[22:01] <Pedrunn> I thought i made what the poll at the start said
[22:01] <Gilg> done
[22:01] <MartinGuehmann> IIRC it were 12 civs.
[22:01] <MartinGuehmann> Not 12 players.
[22:01] <Gilg> whate
[22:01] <Pedrunn> Maybe that what i thaught in the starting of the game and that where i made a mistake
[22:02] <Gilg> whatever, i shouldn't get the error anymore

[22:02] <Pedrunn> But i am sure i did what the poll said
[22:02] <Pedrunn> Just dont know if i did rigt

[22:02] <MartinGuehmann> I am shure it said 12 civs, so we have 12 civs in the game.
[22:03] <MartinGuehmann> OK let's continue.
[22:03] <Gilg> yes, 12 civs
[22:03] <Gilg> OK
[22:03] <Gilg> Expell all english settlers
[22:04] <Gilg> Don't forget the German one
[22:04] <Pedrunn> And move Bait SW
[22:04] <MartinGuehmann> The English settler is expelled.
[22:04] <MartinGuehmann> The wounded hopelite expelled the German settler near Graz
[22:05] <Gilg> good
[22:05] <MartinGuehmann> Bait was moved SW.
[22:05] <Gilg> Do you have a German settler near Pedrunnia?
[22:05] <Pedrunn> ORDER: 2 wounded hops SE.
[22:05] <MartinGuehmann> We have new Defenders now in Wels, group them?
[22:06] <Pedrunn> I say yes but we could use some help at the south
[22:06] <Gilg> Yes, why not a stronghold in th enorth
[22:06] <MartinGuehmann> The German settler near Pedrunnia moved North.
[22:06] <Pedrunn> Wha you guys think
[22:07] <Gilg> We need the units in case Germany attacks........
[22:07] <MartinGuehmann> I grouped the new defender in Wels.
[22:07] <Pedrunn> I thaught that too
[22:07] <Pedrunn> So group it
[22:07] <MartinGuehmann> Done.
[22:07] <Gilg> Next ?
[22:07] <Pedrunn> Did you moved the two wounded hops
[22:07] <Pedrunn> ???
[22:08] <MartinGuehmann> They will be moved automaticly, a path to Pressburg was set two tuens ago.
[22:08] <Pedrunn> ORDER: Troppau takers SW.
[22:08] <MartinGuehmann> tuens -> turns
[22:08] <MartinGuehmann> Done
[22:09] <Pedrunn> ORDER: Ösibuster S.
[22:09] <Gilg> What about the German 12 stack? It disappeared from my map, completly........
[22:10] <MartinGuehmann> Done that revealed an Ösian Samurai
[22:10] <Gilg> Do you see a single Austrian Samurai close to Pilsen?
[22:10] <MartinGuehmann> Yes.
[22:10] <Pedrunn> i dont

[22:10] <MartinGuehmann> New defender is Pressburg ready, group them?
[22:10] <Pedrunn> Oh yeah i do
[22:11] <Gilg> Yes
[22:11] <Pedrunn> You mean afer move Osibuster, right?
[22:11] <Gilg> Yes
[22:11] <Pedrunn> yes, group the defenserd
[22:11] <Gilg> Pedrunn, Yes, next to Pilsen it was unvealed
[22:12] <Pedrunn> Samurai NE?
[22:12] <MartinGuehmann> OK grouped the new defenders in Pressburg, next units are the defence of H Town, they should return to H Town.
[22:12] <Gilg> Yes :doitnow:
[22:12] <Gilg> Actually they should have never gotten there in the first place

[22:13] <MartinGuehmann> Yes, and the units which are now in H Town should take there place.
[22:13] <Pedrunn>

what you are talking about it?
[22:13] <Gilg> Excactly

[22:13] <MartinGuehmann> Fixed the mistake.
[22:13] <Gilg> Never mind Pedrunn, some minor mistake in the excecutive part of the Pres

[22:14] <Pedrunn> It wansnt in the save Martin?
[22:14] <Gilg> Or in other words: His hand was quicker than his eyes

[22:14] <Pedrunn> I guess not lets move on
[22:14] <Pedrunn> ORDER: Size-3 stack near Graz SW, S
[22:14] <Gilg> NO, Pedrunn, that are H Town's defenders...............
[22:14] <Pedrunn> oh
[22:15] <Gilg> That's what it is about
[22:15] <Pedrunn> oh
[22:15] <Locutus> back
[22:15] <Locutus>

[22:15] <Gilg> He moved the defenders of H Town instead the hoplites
[22:15] <MartinGuehmann> OK, next move is the lonly Archer on the river from Pedrunnia to CL
[22:15] <Pedrunn> Why to send them back?
[22:15] <Pedrunn> then...
[22:15] <MartinGuehmann> Should the Archer follow the German settler?
[22:15] <Gilg> Yes
[22:15] <Locutus> martin: yes
[22:16] <Gilg> Pedrunn, We only had 2 HP in H Town, no good.........
[22:16] <Locutus> pedrunn: because we want to attack Wien with 2 12-stacks with the best units possible
[22:16] <Locutus> we need 2H for that, not 1H 2A
[22:16] <Pedrunn> This means a delay in the plan then
[22:16] <Gilg> 1turn
[22:16] <Pedrunn> Ok they had to wait anyway
[22:16] <MartinGuehmann> No the Tropau takers need much more turns.
[22:16] <Locutus> not really, the units from Troppau are still pretty far away
[22:17] <MartinGuehmann> OK the Archer near Pedrunnia, Pedrunn?
[22:17] <Pedrunn> So martin make the right move them and send the hop to that stack position
[22:17] <Pedrunn> yes send the archer
[22:17] <Gilg> let's hope

[22:17] <Gilg> archer?
[22:17] <Pedrunn> in Pedrunnia
[22:18] <Gilg> k
[22:18] <Pedrunn> N
[22:18] <MartinGuehmann> I moved the archer North.
[22:18] <Gilg> I'll be gon for smoking break (again)
[22:18] <MartinGuehmann> Next unit is our first Samurai.
[22:18] <Pedrunn> NE?
[22:19] <Pedrunn> or W?
[22:19] <Locutus> N - stay out of the LOS of Neustadt
[22:19] <MartinGuehmann> Not into the city radius of Wiener Neustadt
[22:19] <MartinGuehmann> So Nort and then NortWest
[22:19] <Pedrunn> oh. Two moves.
[22:19] <Locutus> but still back to Wien/Linz, so we can use it for attack/defense
[22:19] <MartinGuehmann> The Samurai should meet with Ösibuster
[22:20] <Pedrunn> yes N, NW
[22:20] <Locutus> not N NE?
[22:20] <Pedrunn> NE
[22:20] <Pedrunn> sorry
[22:20] <Pedrunn> my mistake
[22:20] <MartinGuehmann> Done, next units are the new defenders in CL, group defenders?
[22:21] <Pedrunn> yes
[22:21] <Pedrunn> do it
[22:21] <MartinGuehmann> Done, next unit is Goodsight
[22:22] <MartinGuehmann> I think it is SW this turn
[22:22] <Pedrunn> SW i say. But anywhere is a good place
[22:22] <Locutus> sounds good
[22:22] <Pedrunn> so move it SW
[22:22] <Pedrunn> more swamps
[22:22] <MartinGuehmann> Done, next units rae the 10 units East of Graz.
[22:23] <MartinGuehmann> Unfortunatly Wien isn't undefended anymore.
[22:23] <MartinGuehmann> OK what should I do with the 10 units?
[22:24] <Pedrunn> Send them NW, W!
[22:24] <Locutus> send 2H 1A towards the 7-stack
[22:24] <Pedrunn> everyone agrees?
[22:24] <Locutus> send 1A to Graz, the other units plus 6 units from graz should merge
[22:25] <Locutus> merge SW of graz
[22:25] <Gilg> I am back
[22:25] <Pedrunn> They moved the size-3 stack back to H Town
[22:26] <Locutus> who did who?
[22:26] <Locutus> who did what?
[22:26] <Gilg> The defenders back into town
[22:27] <Pedrunn> What 2H and 1A you were talking about?
[22:27] <Locutus> yes, we moved them back some time ago already. how is that relevant?
[22:27] <Locutus> from the units in/around Graz.
[22:27] <Gilg> I know.....
[22:27] <MartinGuehmann> OK, the goal is to form a size 12 stack SW of Graz?
[22:27] <Locutus> they should reinforce the 7-stack, to make it a 10-stack
[22:27] <Locutus> 12-stack I mean
[22:28] <Locutus> martin: that would be my plan
[22:28] <Gilg> OK Pedrunn, FYI: The 3 stack which was west of H Town were the defenders, the 3 stack now talking about is in the 10-stack
[22:28] <Locutus> and one somewhere north of Wien
[22:28] <MartinGuehmann> And the rest should stay in Graz?
[22:28] <Locutus> yeah, should be 3 or 4 units left in Graz
[22:29] <Locutus> after all is said and done...
[22:29] <MartinGuehmann> In that case I move the 10 units SW of Graz and take another 2 from Graz.
[22:29] <Pedrunn> oh i see
[22:29] <Locutus> that's another option...
[22:29] <Locutus> and take the necessary units from graz to send to the 7-stack
[22:29] <MartinGuehmann> Well that would leave 6 units in Graz.
[22:30] <Gilg> What about the hebrew-stack?
[22:30] <MartinGuehmann> OK I form the size 12 stack SW of Graz first.
[22:30] <MartinGuehmann> The Hebrew stack disappeared.
[22:30] <MartinGuehmann> Forming the size 12 stack
[22:30] <Locutus> hmm, you're right. must be all the extra units we built...
[22:31] <Gilg> When we are finished with the turn a save-game?
[22:31] <Locutus> no wait. you need 3 units for the 7-stack so that leaves 3 units in graz
[22:31] <MartinGuehmann> OK, size 12 stack SW of Graz formed.
[22:31] <Pedrunn> k
[22:32] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah and the wounded unit outside of Graz makes it 4.
[22:32] <Locutus> indeed. good, now take 1A 2H and send them towards the 7-stack.
[22:32] <Locutus> I would say go W for now
[22:33] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah that has to be rethought every turn.
[22:33] <Gilg> sounds good
[22:33] <Locutus> and make sure you move the right stack this time

[22:34] <MartinGuehmann> OK West
[22:34] <MartinGuehmann> OK moved.
[22:35] <MartinGuehmann> Defenders in H Town fortified.
[22:35] <Pedrunn> Can you post a screenshot?
[22:35] <Pedrunn> I am a bit lost here
[22:36] <MartinGuehmann> We have a Barbrian catapult East of Maquidad.
[22:36] <Locutus> wait a minute: 1 of the units in the 7-stack is still slightly damaged. we can take another unit from graz to replace him...
[22:36] <MartinGuehmann> From the region around Graz?
[22:36] <MartinGuehmann> Yes we can.
[22:37] <Locutus> let's do that (merge them with the 3-stack) and then post a screenie for pedrunn

[22:37] <Locutus> them = it
[22:38] <MartinGuehmann> OK I am adding a hopelite.
[22:38] <Pedrunn> No need anymore
[22:38] <Pedrunn> I have to go
[22:39] <MartinGuehmann> Added the hopelite.
[22:39] <MartinGuehmann> Bye Pedrunn
[22:39] <Pedrunn> I will have to leave in 20 mins and i still have to take a shower
[22:39] <Locutus>

CU...
[22:39] <Gilg> see you
[22:39] <Pedrunn> So seeya all and i wish good lucky
[22:39] * Pedrunn has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[22:39] <MartinGuehmann> OK, we still have a Barbarian Catapult East of Maquidad.
[22:40] <Gilg> Take care of it

[22:40] <Locutus> this allows us to use the damaged hoplite as a suicide unit if needed...
[22:40] <Locutus> destroy it

[22:40] <Locutus> 1H 1A
[22:41] <Gilg> sure enough? Not 1H 2A?
[22:41] <MartinGuehmann> Well I took everything that was in Maquidad.
[22:41] <MartinGuehmann> 2H 1A
[22:41] <Gilg> OK, and?
[22:41] <Locutus> we only have 3 units there. plus, it's more than enough...
[22:41] <MartinGuehmann> We lost one Hopelite
[22:41] <Gilg> What????????????/
[22:42] <MartinGuehmann> I rush build the ARcher in Maquidad, and added an entertainer.
[22:42] <Locutus> to be expected...
[22:42] <Gilg> I my game I didn't loose anything............
[22:42] <Locutus> rush a hoplite instead...
[22:42] <Gilg> 2nd Locutus
[22:43] <MartinGuehmann> Not possible anymore.
[22:43] <Gilg> *grrrrrrrrrrrr*
[22:43] <MartinGuehmann> I think it is time to raise our PW reserve.
[22:44] <MartinGuehmann> So two turns 80%?
[22:44] <Gilg> Do we have enough units?
[22:44] <MartinGuehmann> 12 units in both cities MP and CL
[22:44] <Gilg> Locutus?
[22:45] <Gilg> Which should be enough...... at least for those 1/2 rounds
[22:45] <Locutus> well, we could use another Hoplite in Maq - other than that we're okay...
[22:45] <Locutus> but we can RB that one...
[22:45] <Gilg> exactly

[22:45] <MartinGuehmann> So PW is set on 80%.
[22:45] <Gilg> Anymore units?
[22:45] <Gilg> savegame?
[22:45] <MartinGuehmann> No units left.
[22:46] <MartinGuehmann> We only played 1 turn since the last save.
[22:46] <Gilg> Did some mistakes, that's why

[22:46] <MartinGuehmann> OK anything else?
[22:47] <Locutus> don't think so
[22:47] <MartinGuehmann> END OF TURN 129

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 20:34

[22:48] <Locutus> hmm... I didn't move bait yet...
[22:49] <MartinGuehmann> Well we forgot Graz the city is now rioting.
[22:49] <Locutus> where is bait for you martin?
[22:49] <Gilg> Just another error: In Object DIP_EstEmb, function_Random: Value out of bounds...........
[22:50] <MartinGuehmann> North of the Bear
[22:50] <MartinGuehmann> No error in my game.
[22:50] <MartinGuehmann> So what is the current value for NumPlayers in your game, Gilg?
[22:50] <Locutus> thx
[22:50] <Gilg> 13
[22:51] <MartinGuehmann> That is odd, did you reload CTP2 and did you reload slic?
[22:51] <Locutus> I think it would be best to just save and reload the game. and to be on the save side, set debugslic to No...
[22:51] <Gilg> I just did reloadslic, not reloaded the game.........
[22:51] <Locutus> (and exit the game)
[22:51] <Gilg> debug is no
[22:52] <Gilg> The other errors disappeared.....
[22:52] <Locutus> it has little effect unless you reload the game
[22:52] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah you have to reload the game, at least that was I did.
[22:52] <Gilg> OK, never mind, Martin can you e-mail me the savegame?
[22:53] <MartinGuehmann> Well I only post it.
[22:54] <Gilg> OK, whatever

[22:55] <Gilg> Did you do it?
[22:55] <MartinGuehmann> Savegame is posted.
[22:56] <Gilg> Thank you
[22:57] <MartinGuehmann> OK if I did not mentioned it I moved the Barbarian killers back to Maquidad.
[22:57] <MartinGuehmann> Next thing we should do is to remove the entertainer in Maquidad.
[22:58] <Locutus> k
[22:58] <MartinGuehmann> The next is to epell the German settler near Pedrunnia.
[22:59] <Gilg> k
[22:59] <MartinGuehmann> You got that with Entertainer, Gilg?
[23:00] <Gilg> yep
[23:00] <MartinGuehmann> epell -> expell
[23:00] <Gilg> What shall we do with the German 12 stack?
[23:01] <MartinGuehmann> Nothing.
[23:01] <Locutus> k. and move the archer back to P and RB the unit there. in case the germans come any closer...
[23:02] <MartinGuehmann> Settler expelled, archer moved towards Pedrunnia, and rushbought a Hopelite in Pedrunnia.
[23:02] <Gilg> Moving it back, OK, but already RB?
[23:02] <Gilg> whatever.........
[23:02] <MartinGuehmann> It is already rushbought.
[23:03] <Gilg> that's why I said, whatever.........
[23:03] <Gilg> next one?
[23:03] <Locutus> we have a crapload of gold and nothing else to spend it on - why not?
[23:03] <Gilg> I like to RB buildings as they always take ages.........
[23:04] <Locutus> we're not building many buildings... plus, they're cheaper (cost per production point anyway)
[23:04] <MartinGuehmann> Next unit is Ösibuster, into the ruins?
[23:04] <Locutus> yup
[23:04] <Gilg> Yes ...........

[23:05] <MartinGuehmann> We got 466 gold.
[23:05] <Gilg> Money for me.........
[23:05] <Locutus> dammit, forgot to reloadslic
[23:05] <Gilg> Same sum....
[23:05] <Gilg> How are those numbers created?
[23:05] <Locutus> we already paid back the RB cost

[23:05] <Gilg>

[23:05] <Locutus> randomly
[23:05] <Gilg> But Martin and me had the same amount.........
[23:06] <Locutus> at the start of the game
[23:06] <Gilg> ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!
[23:06] <Gilg> Samurai Ne, NE?
[23:06] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah, otherwise you could use the reload game bug from civ, reload as long until you got what you want.
[23:07] <Locutus> agree
[23:07] <MartinGuehmann> If we move through the city radius we could reveal two tiles.
[23:08] <Gilg> You mean E, N?
[23:08] <Locutus> but we could unleash a chase...
[23:08] <Gilg> Let's move NE, NE.
[23:08] <Locutus> I vote NE-NE
[23:09] <MartinGuehmann> Well we could move NE and E that wuld reveal at least one tile.
[23:09] <Gilg> But then we would be within striking distance
[23:09] <MartinGuehmann> I don't think they have a Samurai only stack in the city.
[23:10] <Locutus> NE-E is fine too
[23:10] <Gilg> OK
[23:10] <Locutus> they can't see us then
[23:10] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah so I am doing it.
[23:11] <Locutus> oops...
[23:11] <Gilg> Great, a Samurai was revealed............
[23:11] <Gilg> Who suggested here this?????????/
[23:11] <MartinGuehmann> Bat idea.
[23:11] <Gilg> So, we might not longer have our nice Samurai *whine*
[23:11] <Locutus> hmmm, I know batman, batwoman, batcave, batmobile and batphone, but I never heard of batidea

[23:12] <MartinGuehmann> Well we would have been in striking disstance and the Samurai is sligtly damaged.
[23:12] <Gilg>

[23:12] <MartinGuehmann> Bat -> Bad
[23:12] <MartinGuehmann> So we see next turn.
[23:12] <Locutus> indeed. let's move on
[23:13] <Gilg> Quick question: Where to turn the enemy healthbar on again?
[23:13] <MartinGuehmann> The next units to move are the Tropau takers.
[23:13] <Locutus> I can't stay much longer... 30-50 mins at most
[23:13] <Gilg> You brought us into this mess, so you'll have to say with us

[23:14] <Locutus> hey I wanted to go NE-NE...
[23:14] <Gilg> But you changed first your mind

[23:14] <Gilg> Martin, the Tropau takers: SW?
[23:15] <Locutus> right...
[23:15] <MartinGuehmann> Yup they should go SW.
[23:15] <MartinGuehmann> So doing it.
[23:15] <Gilg> Somebody needs to be blamed

[23:15] <Gilg> Bait: W?
[23:15] <MartinGuehmann> Noone needs to be blamed.
[23:15] <MartinGuehmann> For Bait I go for SW.
[23:16] <Gilg> Locutus?
[23:16] <Locutus> indeed. and if that *was* the case, it would be martin

[23:16] <Locutus> agree
[23:16] <Gilg>

let's hack on him...........
[23:16] <Gilg> OK SW
[23:16] <MartinGuehmann> I prefer to enter German territory, rather Celtic.
[23:17] <MartinGuehmann> OK moving it SW.
[23:17] <Locutus> agreed, marting
[23:18] <MartinGuehmann> Next is Goodsight, last turn he went SW, so this turn it should be NW.
[23:18] <Gilg> Can we make Martin liable if we loose our Samurai?
[23:18] <Gilg> yes
[23:18] <Locutus> gilg: no, the MoD is responsible, so you can impeach Pedrunn if you want

[23:18] <MartinGuehmann> Done
[23:19] <Gilg> Yes, you are right.......damned.........So we even can't feather Martin for it........
[23:19] <Locutus> well, feathering pedrunn is just as fun

[23:19] <Gilg> Ok, persuaded, but he run away before....I think he knows why..........
[23:20] <Gilg> The 2 hoplites north of Graz?
[23:20] <MartinGuehmann> OK, next units are the ones from H Town, for replacement of the wounded hopelites of the Tropau takers.
[23:20] <Gilg> Shall we move them SW,SW along the river?
[23:20] <Locutus> yup, and the 4-stack from Graz N and then merge them...
[23:21] <MartinGuehmann> OK doing it.
[23:21] <Gilg> Wouldn't work that would make 13 units for the takers...........
[23:21] <Gilg> 7 + 4 + 2
[23:21] <Locutus> yes, but 1 is damaged
[23:21] <MartinGuehmann> The indention was to replace the sligtly damaged one in that stack.
[23:21] <Locutus> he can be a suicide unit if needed
[23:22] <Gilg> OK
[23:22] <MartinGuehmann> OK merged the two stacks as discribed by Locutus.
[23:23] <MartinGuehmann> I grouped the wounded hopelite in Graz into the defenders.
[23:24] <Gilg> OK
[23:24] <Locutus> k
[23:24] <MartinGuehmann> The size 12 stack is left, should we move them with the Hebrews South of it.
[23:24] <Gilg> Sounds good, we would be on hill
[23:24] <Locutus> no
[23:25] <Gilg> Why no Locutus?
[23:25] <Locutus> how? the only option is west, which leaves Graz open for attack
[23:25] <Gilg> No, if we move NW and then S......
[23:25] <Gilg> it is 1 move, river
[23:26] <Locutus> good point. sounds good
[23:26] <Gilg> Martin?
[23:26] <MartinGuehmann> Good idea.
[23:26] <MartinGuehmann> So I am doing it.
[23:26] <Gilg> Quick question, how to enable the healthbar again?
[23:26] <Gilg> OK
[23:26] <Gilg> Babarian pikemen?????????
[23:27] <Locutus> that's cheating in my book...
[23:27] <Locutus> yup
[23:27] <MartinGuehmann> Done and this revealed a Barbarian Pikeman.
[23:27] <Gilg> What do you mean? cheating? That's a normal option......
[23:28] <Locutus> I still think it's cheating. the AI is easy enough to beat already...
[23:28] <Gilg> Always used it, plus it only helps for single units (mainly).........
[23:28] <Gilg> One more thing: You recognised that Graz is having minus income!!!!!
[23:29] <Locutus> I don't like it and don't use it. but it's in advanced options somewhere...
[23:29] <Gilg> Forget about Graz, it's rioting........
[23:30] <Gilg> Yes, found it, just forgotten it is more than one page..........
[23:30] <Gilg> Next round we can build mines !!!!!!!!!
[23:31] <MartinGuehmann> OK let's continue the size 12 stack is moved.
[23:32] <MartinGuehmann> End turn?
[23:32] <Gilg> I thiknk we could remove an entertainer in H Town, 73 should be OK, or?
[23:32] <Gilg> thiknk=think
[23:33] <MartinGuehmann> Without the entertainer the happiness is 72 one too less to be sure.
[23:33] <Gilg> For me it is showing 73???????
[23:33] <Gilg> 75 with 2 entertainers...What for you Martin?
[23:34] <MartinGuehmann> You are right, I was in Graz, so I removed it.
[23:34] <MartinGuehmann> So end turn?
[23:34] <Locutus> guess so
[23:34] <Gilg> OK

[23:34] <MartinGuehmann> END OF TURN 130

Martin Gühmann · March 25, 2003, 20:36

[23:35] <Gilg> In my game our Samurai has beaten the Austrian......
[23:35] <MartinGuehmann> Yes in my game, too.
[23:35] <Gilg> What research do you have?
[23:35] <MartinGuehmann> What should we research now?
[23:35] <Locutus> I say Geometry
[23:36] <Gilg> No Monarchy, so Geometry........
[23:36] <Gilg> unless we take Iron work
[23:36] <Locutus> it's not an option for me
[23:36] <MartinGuehmann> Geometry is a little bit expensive isn't it.
[23:36] <Gilg> It is only 5 turns
[23:36] <Gilg> 5 turns for Iron work
[23:36] <MartinGuehmann> OK I have ship building
[23:37] <Gilg> Martin, which options do you have?
[23:37] <Locutus> catapults can bombard, making them the most powerful military unit for centuries to come...
[23:37] <MartinGuehmann> Then I have Maurerhandwerk, idea what this is called in the English version.
[23:38] <Gilg> Good question, construction I think
[23:38] <Gilg> What else?
[23:38] <Locutus> nothing like a 12-stack of catapults preparing an assault on even the most heavily defended cities

[23:38] <MartinGuehmann> At least it gives the Great Wall and the Arena.
[23:38] <Locutus> Masonry
[23:38] <MartinGuehmann> Well that's it.
[23:38] <Gilg> Locutus, yes there is something better: 2 * 12 stacks

[23:38] <Locutus> Contruction is Konstruction IIRC
[23:38] <MartinGuehmann> The last one is Geometry.
[23:39] <Gilg> Martin you are missing one
[23:39] <MartinGuehmann> And then I have Rittertum, no idea again what it is in the English version
[23:39] <Gilg> knights

[23:39] <Locutus> horse reiding
[23:39] <Locutus> horse riding
[23:39] <Gilg> Are you sure?
[23:39] <Locutus> yes
[23:40] <MartinGuehmann> It gives Mounted Archers and trade posts.
[23:40] <Gilg> OK, that's horse riding
[23:40] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah that must be horse riding.
[23:40] <Locutus> I'm looking at the english version myself, remember?

[23:40] <Gilg> How many turns for each?
[23:40] <Gilg> Locutus, hadn't had the time to change the language........
[23:41] <MartinGuehmann> Ship building 3 turns.
[23:41] <Locutus> HR = 5, GEO = 15, MAS = 4
[23:41] <MartinGuehmann> Yes.
[23:41] <Locutus> Geo is worth the wait
[23:41] <Gilg> great..........Best would be GEO, but quicker is HR, qhich isn't to bad either.........
[23:41] <MartinGuehmann> Except that Geo needs 14 turns in my game.
[23:41] <Gilg> qhich=which
[23:42] <MartinGuehmann> I think we should take first some quick advances.
[23:42] <Locutus> bombard! bombard! bombard!

[23:42] <Gilg> Actually, Martin
[23:43] <Gilg> In the moment we are mainly securing and with using higher PW, we won't be able to build anything else, so that's kind of OK
[23:43] <Locutus> without catapults we can't possibly dream of beating the germans, and I don't think they'll give us much of a choice but to fight (eventually)
[23:43] <Gilg> I would say: Geo
[23:44] <MartinGuehmann> OK I changed to Geo.
[23:44] <Gilg> although, using HR, we could build trading posts.........quicker research
[23:44] <Locutus> I think we should stop very soon anyway (well, I certainly will). so I can poll it just before resigning.
[23:44] <Gilg> and with this we would have quicker research.........either HR or geo........
[23:45] <Gilg> So, who is tossing a coin?
[23:45] <Locutus> go for Geo now (I'm the minister :P) and poll it later
[23:45] <MartinGuehmann> Well do a poll between HR and Geo
[23:46] <Locutus> no, a poll with all options open - the people have the right to choose
[23:46] <MartinGuehmann> OK continue.
[23:46] <Gilg> We won't loose research when switching?
[23:47] <Locutus> no
[23:47] <Gilg> ok
[23:47] <MartinGuehmann> OK I set the PW tax back to 10%
[23:47] <Gilg> Why? we could still leave it there
[23:48] <MartinGuehmann> I polled two turn 80% PW and we need more units.
[23:48] <Gilg> Do you see the English settler near Tropau-takers?
[23:48] <Locutus> 1 more turn would be possible, but not longer
[23:48] <Gilg> Let's get some more PW build mines and roads....
[23:48] <MartinGuehmann> It is a Hebrew settler.
[23:49] <Locutus> indeed
[23:49] <MartinGuehmann> We can't use so much, without the MoI.
[23:49] <Gilg> whatever........Looks like English, look at his face :-)
[23:49] <Gilg> Who is MoI? IW?
[23:49] <Locutus> but we can't do anything about it, so let's move on
[23:49] <Gilg> OK.....
[23:49] <Gilg> Tropau SW?
[23:50] <Locutus> what units to move first, Martin?
[23:50] <Locutus> yeah.
[23:50] <MartinGuehmann> The Tropau takes.
[23:50] <Locutus> no S
[23:50] <MartinGuehmann> And they should go SW.
[23:50] <MartinGuehmann> I want to know the size of Brunn.
[23:50] <Locutus> beeline to Wien now...
[23:50] <Gilg>

[23:50] <Gilg> the

for Martin
[23:50] <Gilg> Let's check Brunn
[23:51] <Gilg> so SW
[23:51] <Locutus> it's taking us long enough to travel to WIen already, we should take the fastest route
[23:51] <Gilg> I'll count, wait
[23:51] <MartinGuehmann> Too late.
[23:51] <Gilg> SW?
[23:51] <Locutus> 4 S brings us N of the Uranium - we can meet with the other forces there.
[23:51] <MartinGuehmann> Brunn is a size two city with city walls.
[23:52] <Locutus> then redo the move, we must go to Wien ASAP!
[23:52] <MartinGuehmann> That's cheating.
[23:53] <Locutus> no it's not - you weren't supposed to go there in the first place...
[23:53] <Gilg> Plus, we won't gain anything we have to wait for the 6-stack..........
[23:53] <Gilg> They'll arrive at the same time.........
[23:53] <Locutus> the 6-stack will be N of the Uranium in 4 turns as well. the plan fits together perfectly...
[23:54] <Gilg> In this case they will join on the 5th move in front of Wien, so what?
[23:55] <Gilg> In neither case we could attack the same turn........
[23:55] <Locutus> okay, did some calculations. we can do it like this. it's messier but it works.
[23:55] <Gilg>

[23:55] <Gilg> who's next?
[23:56] <Locutus> the problem is that we can't suicide now - so it'll be very risky
[23:56] <MartinGuehmann> The size 12 stack near Graz.
[23:56] <MartinGuehmann> Where to move it?
[23:56] <Gilg> West?
[23:56] <Locutus> leave it - due to the extra delay it'll have to wait longer
[23:56] <Gilg> Locutus?
[23:57] <Locutus> fortify
[23:57] <Gilg> And it will shield against the Hebrew........
[23:57] <Gilg> F
[23:57] <Locutus> they're going S
[23:57] <Gilg> S_
[23:57] <Gilg> sorry S?
[23:58] <Locutus> the Hebrew are
[23:58] <Locutus> not us
[23:58] <Gilg> Ah! OK.
[23:58] <MartinGuehmann> OK the size 12 stack is fortified.
[23:58] <Gilg> Next?
[23:59] <MartinGuehmann> The Archer outside Pedrunnia.
[23:59] <MartinGuehmann> It should be moved to Pedrunnia and grouped into the stack there.
[23:59] <Gilg> S? 'exploring?
[23:59] <Locutus> to city and fortify
[23:59] <Gilg> Not trying to check where the German stack went?
[23:59] <Locutus> no, it might come back
[23:59] <Gilg> OK, city and F
[00:00] <Locutus> pedrunn must be defended at all cost.
[00:00] <Locutus> if they attack maq or Womb we can't do anything about it anyway
[00:00] <Gilg> At all cost????????
[00:00] <MartinGuehmann> OK, next unit is the Samurai.
[00:00] <Locutus> of course, it's the capital...
[00:00] <Gilg> RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
[00:00] <Locutus> attack the settler
[00:00] <MartinGuehmann> Not possible.
[00:01] <Gilg> Why you can't attack?
[00:01] <Locutus> bah, NE-NE then
[00:01] <Locutus> not enough MP
[00:01] <MartinGuehmann> If I move the Samurai North then the settler is NW.
[00:01] <MartinGuehmann> On the forest.
[00:01] <Gilg> yup.........
[00:01] <Gilg> NE, NE
[00:02] <MartinGuehmann> OK Samurai goes NE NE
[00:02] <Gilg> Oesiskiller SW?
[00:02] <Gilg> or west?
[00:03] <MartinGuehmann> Done and Ösikiller should go West.
[00:03] <MartinGuehmann> That way we reveal more of the Darkness and are still behind the settler.
[00:03] <MartinGuehmann> And if it settles something we destroy it.
[00:03] <Gilg> OK for me

[00:03] <MartinGuehmann> Locutus?
[00:04] <MartinGuehmann> Well go West...
[00:04] <Locutus> fine with me
[00:04] <MartinGuehmann> Done, next unit is GoodSight.
[00:05] <MartinGuehmann> Should be SW.
[00:05] <Gilg> I think it is SW again.......
[00:05] <MartinGuehmann> So am doing it.
[00:06] <Gilg> bait? next one
[00:06] <Gilg> ?
[00:06] <MartinGuehmann> Yes Bait is next one.
[00:06] <MartinGuehmann> Should we enter German or Celtic territory?
[00:07] <Gilg> What about the settler?
[00:07] <MartinGuehmann> Which settler?
[00:07] <Locutus> german territory
[00:07] <Gilg> I have a settler west of it........
[00:07] <MartinGuehmann> Yes German territory.
[00:07] <Gilg> OK :scraed:
[00:07] <Gilg>

[00:08] <Gilg> S?
[00:08] <MartinGuehmann> That is one move South, and even if there is a setller as long as it is not Austrian we can't do anythink outside of our territory.
[00:08] <MartinGuehmann> So Bait is going now one tile South.
[00:08] <Gilg> OK
[00:09] <MartinGuehmann> Next army is the size 6 stack near Graz.
[00:09] <Gilg> yep.........
[00:10] <Gilg> this one should move west?
[00:10] <Gilg> Locutus???
[00:10] <MartinGuehmann> So what is the destination of it?
[00:10] <Locutus> since the 7-stack is taking the scenic route, you can do whatever the hell you wanna do with that one...
[00:10] <Gilg> to join in front of Wien with the Tropau-stack
[00:11] <Locutus> go west, we can try to merge earlier (not sure if it'll work though)
[00:11] <MartinGuehmann> Yeah go West.
[00:11] <Gilg> West into the new territory, the wild wild west.
[00:12] <MartinGuehmann> Well wild it is rather Ösian.
[00:12] <MartinGuehmann> So I am doing it.
[00:12] <MartinGuehmann> Well that revealed a Scottish size 11 stack.
[00:13] <Locutus> hmm...not for me
[00:13] <Gilg> Where?
[00:13] <MartinGuehmann> I also grouped the wounded units from the Tropau stack into the defenders of Pressburg.
[00:13] <Gilg> OK
[00:14] <Gilg> PW back to 0%?
[00:14] <MartinGuehmann> I set it to 10%
[00:15] <Gilg> just check couple of cities would increase their production by 1 turn.........
[00:15] <Gilg> check=checked
[00:16] <MartinGuehmann> Screenshot posted.
[00:16] <Gilg> thanks
[00:16] <Gilg> ups.................
[00:17] <MartinGuehmann> OK set it back to 0%
[00:18] <Gilg> We have peace treaty with them, but they are still in our way......... So don't know what Locutus is moaning about

[00:19] <MartinGuehmann> Anything else?
[00:19] <Gilg> no, but let's finish the round and call it a day?
[00:19] <Gilg> In other words new round, but no action?
[00:20] <MartinGuehmann> Well let's end the turn first and see then.
[00:20] <MartinGuehmann> END OF TURN 131
[00:20] <Gilg> OK
[00:20] <Locutus> okay, end chat?
[00:21] <Locutus> I know I'm going. it's too late already...
[00:21] <MartinGuehmann> I think we can still move the lonly units.
[00:22] <MartinGuehmann> I already grouped the new defenders.
[00:22] <MartinGuehmann> Ösibuster should follow the settler.
[00:22] <Gilg> I am just going through my dipmod errors.......
[00:23] <MartinGuehmann> But in the meantime I can move him one West.
[00:23] <Gilg> You did recognise that Germany founded a new city NW of Brunn?
[00:23] <Gilg> Your settler did move?
[00:24] <Locutus> k. in that case I'll leave you two alone.
[00:24] <MartinGuehmann> Yes my settler did move
[00:24] <Gilg> k, have a good sleep
[00:24] <MartinGuehmann> And I think we should also leave Bait alone.
[00:24] * haven.apolyton.net changes topic to 'CtP2 Democracy Game'
[00:24] <Gilg> OK, not for me........
[00:24] <Gilg> What about the Samurai?
[00:24] <Locutus> good night...
[00:24] * Locutus has quit IRC (Quit: )
[00:24] <MartinGuehmann> So I move him West.
[00:24] <MartinGuehmann> Good night Locutus.
[00:25] <Gilg> the settler moved where?
[00:25] <MartinGuehmann> Move Ösibuster West?
[00:25] <Gilg> the settler moved where?
[00:25] <MartinGuehmann> The settler is now W SW
[00:25] <MartinGuehmann> So one West?
[00:25] <Gilg> OK, west
[00:26] <MartinGuehmann> Done and added one entertainer to Linz.
[00:26] <Gilg> Bait SW?
[00:26] <MartinGuehmann> Next unit is Goodsight
[00:27] <Gilg> Goodsoght NW?
[00:27] <MartinGuehmann> Yes
[00:27] <Gilg> ok
[00:27] <MartinGuehmann> And the Samurai should go North
[00:27] <Gilg> Linz, isn't growing at all.......
[00:27] <MartinGuehmann> It should keep some distance to Pilsen.
[00:28] <Gilg> Samurai, North
[00:28] <Gilg> let's try to join with the Oesibuster
[00:28] <MartinGuehmann> Linz just grow and I think now that should be all.
[00:29] <Gilg> 6 stack?
[00:29] <Gilg> Martin?
[00:29] <MartinGuehmann> For the next chat.
[00:29] <Gilg> OK with me

[00:30] <MartinGuehmann> I just wanted to play the lonly units.
[00:30] <Gilg> OK..........
[00:30] <MartinGuehmann> Unfortunatly the way is now longer for Bait so let's decide it next chat.
[00:30] <MartinGuehmann> END OF 17TH TURN CHAT

Pedrunn · March 26, 2003, 08:48

I have an idea to speed things up. I i will post the moves to do as orders. So while playing so the MoD/delegate/Pres just need to write the order and ask, if there is any objection.
I think this will speed things up if the orders dont get so objected. I think it is better than having to discuss what to do every time. What do you think?

Gilgamensch · March 26, 2003, 09:42

Pedrunn,

good idea, but.....

We had a lengthy discussion about some units, and all of us changed our opinion every 5 minutes, because of better ideas

Also some minor mistakes by us (moving the wrong stack *ups*).

But again, generally would be OK and better

Maybe you should keep the orders a bit more general, just giving key-points to move to, i.e. Trapou and addon(?) to meet east inoff Wien, I think you get my idea........