The Star Wars vs Star Trek Thread; because it's been awhile.

[MRT144]

any show where someone is evil by goatee alone makes me a fan

[Boris Godunov]

Galactic Empire. They have more resources. 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers alone with their fighter compliments would be enough to crush the Federation et al easily.

[Stefu]

B5!

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by David Floyd
If anyone in any of these universes has a valid claim to being able to defeat a Q, I haven't heard it. Therefore, Star Trek wins.

Yeah? Q has a long history of intervening when The Federation is invaded, does he?

Thought not.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Galactic Empire. They have more resources. 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers alone with their fighter compliments would be enough to crush the Federation et al easily.

It will be such a pity when such a great force will be swallowed up by the Prophet-controlled wormhole that it will be traversing.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by OliverFA


Really? I've always seen the Borgs as the perfect communists

I've always done this:

Klingons = Britons
Romulans = Russians
Federation = United Nations (with teeth! )
Borg = America
Ferengi = America
Cardassians = Germany

[GePap]

The Vorlons alone would sweep he floor with either, and if your bring in the Shadows, well...

B5, B5, B5.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by St Leo


It will be such a pity when such a great force will be swallowed up by the Prophet-controlled wormhole that it will be traversing.

When did I say they would be traversing the Bajoran wormhole?

[Drake Tungsten]

The Dune guys would win handily. Guildsmen can see the future for god's sake; no one can overcome that intelligence advantage.

[DarthVeda]

b5

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
The Dune guys would win handily. Guildsmen can see the future for god's sake; no one can overcome that intelligence advantage.

Three words:

Base. Delta. Zero.
Turn Arrakis into molten slag.



The Duneverse is limited in "atomics" as heaviest weapon, and the no-computer taboo.

Meanwhile a "Light" turbolaser cranks out a ten-isotons worth of explosive power every 2 seconds.

bye-bye Duneverse.

[Drake Tungsten]

Turn Arrakis into molten slag.

How? I thought we were fighting in the Star Trek universe...

and the no-computer taboo.

Who needs computers when you have Mentats?

Meanwhile a "Light" turbolaser cranks out a ten-isotons worth of explosive power every 2 seconds.

Why would a Guildsmen get anywhere close to an enemy ship when HE CAN SEE IT COMING IN ADVANCE!!!!

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

How? I thought we were fighting in the Star Trek universe...

The Duneverse IS in the Milky Way, high speed..

Who needs computers when you have Mentats?

Who needs mentats when you have computers that are not melange-relient?

Also, 'Droids would be on hand to augment imperial forces.

Why would a Guildsmen get anywhere close to an enemy ship when HE CAN SEE IT COMING IN ADVANCE!!!!

Why would a Heighliner be armed to begin with?

Besides, that's assuming the guild can unload the sardaukar on a planet quicker than the local defense forces can blow them all to hell.

[BustaMike]

Barring the appearance of a Q, the stuff they have in Bablyon 5 (Vorlons and Shadows) would wipe the floor with Star Wars and Star Trek. If Q shows up, Star Trek wins automatically.

Disregarding any ridiculously powerful alien races and focussing specifically on the humans and those of about equal power (Romulans, Centauri, whatever), I would have to give the edge to Star Trek. The Defiant would take out thousands of those stupid little Star Wars fighters w/o a scratch. The ships in Star Wars don't even have stuff that targets, their guns fire in a straight line like a machine gun whereas in Star Trek a ship would just lock phasers on multiple targets and blow ten things up at once. I'm also willing to bet one quantum torpedo would blow up a Star Destroyer.

The little fighters in B5 are the coolest when it comes to moving around. You can see the individual thrusters fire to swivel and steer it around in the correct direction. Unfortunately, they're not powerful enough to hurt anything. Some of the bigger B5 ships might hurt a little, but I think w/o the Vorlons or Shadows everything in B5 would just up and die against either Star Wars or Star Trek.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Static Universe
None of them stand a chance against the Kzinti.

The puppeteers could vaporise the kzinti.

[GePap]

Well, do we choose a specific form of space travel?

Is FTL travel in Star wars as fast as Warp?

I know that movement in B5 is much slower, since it takes place in hyperspace.

As for types of weapons: how do SW shield tech compare to ST shield tech? In B5 there are no shields to speak of.

[Frankychan]

Star Wars has 'The Force'.

All the Jedi/Sith have to do is take over the minds of their opponents or choke 'em to death to win.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by BustaMike
Barring the appearance of a Q, the stuff they have in Bablyon 5 (Vorlons and Shadows) would wipe the floor with Star Wars and Star Trek. If Q shows up, Star Trek wins automatically.

Q doesn't count. He didn't step in to prevent the Borg, or the Dominion, so it's highly unlikely(read: not going to happen) Q qill factor in.

Disregarding any ridiculously powerful alien races and focussing specifically on the humans and those of about equal power (Romulans, Centauri, whatever), I would have to give the edge to Star Trek. The Defiant would take out thousands of those stupid little Star Wars fighters w/o a scratch. The ships in Star Wars don't even have stuff that targets, their guns fire in a straight line like a machine gun whereas in Star Trek a ship would just lock phasers on multiple targets and blow ten things up at once. I'm also willing to bet one quantum torpedo would blow up a Star Destroyer.

Couple things, comparing Star Warsian "Turbolasers" to Federation phasers;

There are 12 heavy turbolasers and roughly 120 light turbolasers on an ISD1 (ref. SWICS). The heavy turbolasers are roughly 125 times bigger than the light turbolasers (which were seen vaporizing asteroids in TESB). If firepower is proportional to size (an unsubstantiated but not unreasonable postulate) then the sustainable power outputs of the heavy and light guns work out to 47 million TW and 375,000 TW respectively. Refire rates seem to be roughly 1 shot per 2 seconds, so the energy level of each individual blast would have to be 94 million TJ (22 gigatons of TNT) for heavy turbolasers and 750,000 TJ ( 179 megatons) for light turbolasers.

Now, let's look at some numbers for Federation phasers (and quantum Torps).

Phasers appear to induce some kind of chain reaction in matter. Against shields, they seem to be tactically equivalent to lasers in the range of 30,000 TW (7 megatons per second). Against dense armour, their effectiveness is much lower, in the 1-10TW range (1 kiloton per second). A typical starship has only a handful of phaser arrays

Their torpedoes are their heaviest weapons, with an upper limit of 64 megatons for photon torpedoes and roughly twice that for quantum torpedoes. In fact, some significant battles have been fought exclusively with torpedoes. They are capable of superluminal speeds when launched from a warp-driven starship, thus making them useful for long-range first-strike actions and surprise attacks. They have good acceleration and guidance systems, but limited maneuverability


The fact is, there are many, many incidents when Federation ships were less than a few kilometers away while missing.

Let's look at shields;

The TESB novelization described a "steady rain" of asteroids, and Anakin Skywalker: The Story of Darth Vader said that "turbolaser gunners blasted the largest rocks; those they missed impacted against the bow shields like multi-megaton compression bombs." We can see from the film that the ships were taking impacts at the rate of at least 1 asteroid per second if not more, and we know from the above quote that the asteroids were striking with several megatons of energy each. Some Federation cultists dispute this figure by stating that we saw some slow-moving asteroids in the films, but this is a false dilemma fallacy: the existence of slow-moving asteroids does not prove that all of the asteroids (<99.99% of which would have impacted >off-screen) would have been slow-moving, particularly since typical asteroid speeds in the Earth's solar system have been observed to be much higher than this. Furthermore, the bombardment must have continued for at least 1 or 2 days because Vader had time to contact bounty hunters, who travelled from their various homebases to the Outer Rim while the fleet stayed in the field. Therefore, each ISD might have absorbed as much as 3E20 joules of kinetic energy while in the asteroid field.

So, SW shields can probaly shrug off Federation weapons. Can Federation shields make the claim about SW weapons? No. .

Federation shield technology allows them to withstand multiple direct hits with high-yield nuclear weapons and prolonged exposure to stellar bombardment. If they can stay out of the firing range of our heavy dorsal turbolaser batteries (which unleash millions of TJ per shot), we will need to hit their vessels with more than 100 shots from our point-defense cannons to bring down their shields. With more than 100 turbolaser emplacements capable of firing once every two seconds, we should be able to accomplish this in a few seconds. If they do not find a way to improve their shield survivability against plasma weapons, it will be even easier; a single shot from a point-defense turbolaser battery will be sufficient to bring their shields down.

Our tacticians feel that the best method of attack will be to use our TIE fighters primarily to launch large numbers of missiles at the Federation ships from many angles as a diversion, while our capital ships attempt to target their vessels with the heavy dorsal cannons. This may prove to be difficult against the smaller, more highly maneuverable vessels like the "Defiant". Fortunately, their fleet is heavily biased toward large vessels rather than the small and highly maneuverable Defiant-class vessels.

The little fighters in B5 are the coolest when it comes to moving around. You can see the individual thrusters fire to swivel and steer it around in the correct direction. Unfortunately, they're not powerful enough to hurt anything. Some of the bigger B5 ships might hurt a little, but I think w/o the Vorlons or Shadows everything in B5 would just up and die against either Star Wars or Star Trek.

IMO, the "First ONes" are wussies, and have low survivability rates.


(all SW vs. ST info shamelessly stolen from stardestroyer.net, mike wong. except no substitutes)

[Frankychan]

you tell 'em.

Support the Galactic Empire!

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by GePap
Well, do we choose a specific form of space travel?

Is FTL travel in Star wars as fast as Warp?

I know that movement in B5 is much slower, since it takes place in hyperspace.

As for types of weapons: how do SW shield tech compare to ST shield tech? In B5 there are no shields to speak of.

In SW, FTL is many hundreds of times faster.

[GePap]

All the Jedi/Sith have to do is take over the minds of their opponents or choke 'em to death to win

Everyone has telepaths of some type.

Has anyone been geeky enough to figure out the power of B5 weaponry?

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by GePap

Everyone has telepaths of some type.

Has anyone been geeky enough to figure out the power of B5 weaponry?

try www.b5tech.com

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Lonestar


In SW, FTL is many hundreds of times faster.

After all, the Old Republic effectively controlled the entire galaxy while Voyager took forever to travel a mere 70 000 ly trying to cheat as much as possible.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000




I've always done this:

Klingons = Britons
Romulans = Russians
Federation = United Nations (with teeth! )
Borg = America
Ferengi = America
Cardassians = Germany

Oh, come on. The Klingons are supposed to be the Soviets (their language takes all of the worse parts of the German, Russian, and other Eastern Euorpean langauages)

The Ferengi are supposedly Europeans

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by St Leo


After all, the Old Republic effectively controlled the entire galaxy while Voyager took forever to travel a mere 70 000 ly trying to cheat as much as possible.

Well, MOST of the entire galaxy. About a quarter is "unknown"

[Kramerman]

My avatar should say it all.

I remember when i had a rediculus arguement with a friend (treky, he is) over who would win, an Imp Star Destroyer or the USS Enterprise. I was sure he'd answer the Star Destoryer, i mean, how could it lose? But he didint! and for the longest time i had the nerdiest arguement in my life over what would win, an SD or the Enterprise (galactic-class, i believe it is, or somethn like that).

The Empire!

[St Leo]

Oh, come on. The Klingons are supposed to be the Soviets (their language takes all of the worse parts of the German, Russian, and other Eastern Euorpean langauages)

Worst? I thought it was best.

[Drake Tungsten]

The Duneverse IS in the Milky Way, high speed..

But in an alternate reality, low speed.

At any rate, I'm out of the discussion. I won't even pretend to be a big enough geek to understand or care about what's going on in here...

Dune!!!

[Richard Bruns]

Don´t forget that of the Empire had won the battle of Endor, as described in the original post, they would still have an operational death star and two (or possibly three, if they turned Luke) extremely powerful dark Jedi.

Even without that, though, The ability to combine their overwhelming firepower with exceptional mobility would mean that the Empire would easily win any conventional military conflict. Even without Lonestar´s exhaustive post, it is obvious that they pack a lot more firepower than Federation equivalents, and that they can travel all over the galaxy in a short amount of time. The only advantage the Federation has is transporters, and Imperial shields would probably begate that the same way Federation shields do.

Dark Jedi can also see the future, by the way, so Guildsmen don´t have much advantage there. I don´t know anything about Babylon 5, but from what I´ve seen of Farscape a Star Destroyer is much more powerful than a Peacekeeper command carrier, both in raw power and force projection capability.

The big question is what would happen when the Empire came into conflict with the Borg. I´m guessing they would win that too, thanks to sheer firepower. If the borg did manage to start assimilating star destroyers, then Vader can go take out the Queen and end the problem for good.

However, there is one way for the Federation to win. Time travel exists in our galaxy, and is available to the Federation, but is unknown in Star Wars. The Empire has no knowledge of temporal mechanics. So the crew of the Enterprise would have a good chance of using time travel to solve the whole thing, probably by closing the wormhole so that none of that ever happened. After all, even Bajoran terrorists can shut wormholes.

[Dr. A. Cula]

I came here to find the answer to the old qurestion about who would win a confrontation between an Enterprise security team, who get killed on sight, and a squad of SW stormtroopers, who can't hit the broad side of an elephant in a corridor, or something like that.
Instead, I find people arguing about spaceships.