Bad Reputation

Worthingtons · March 24, 2003, 12:11

In my current game i found myself helplessely behind in Technology, so I decided to some trading with the French , Military Tradition,Magnatism,Nationalism and Steam power for about 700gpt and furs. I then, of course, declared war

Problem is, I want to win the game by Democracy

, Is there anyway I can mend the reputation hit over time, or is what i did too bigger crime?

Ps , it's my first main crime apart from a mild sneak attack once

Cheers
Matt

Fosse · March 24, 2003, 13:46

I don't know how badly this will hurt the chances of other Civs voting for you, but you can count on France being against you forever.

What this will do is make it very difficult for you to arrange gpt and luxury trades to other civs... having those trades in place raises their opinions of you. Since you won't be trading very much, your opponants will and will thus be more liked by the world in general.

You can still win a diplomatic game... but it sounds like you made it a lot harder on yourself.

badams52 · March 24, 2003, 14:13

Winning a diplomatic (I assume that's what you meant) victory is largely based on the AIs attitude and reputation towards you. For a detailed analysis you can look at this thread AI Attitude Revealed on civ fanatics.

But for a quick sum: you have caused this to be counted against you (being + is bad)

+4 if you break a trade route (like pillaging your own road) that cancels a treaty. In addition to the -5 you lost since you are no longer trading resources, it will feel like +9. Other civs will add +1.

Fosse is right that none of the AIs will accept gpt deals from you anymore, but you should still be able to get gpt deals and trade your luxuries away which will improve the attitude of the other civs toward you. According to current knowledge, giving a gift to France in excess of 500 will improve their attitude -10 for a length of 50 turns.Which will offset the +4 penalty you incurred. You could also just give them 100 g before you vote to improve their attitude by -10

Theseus · March 24, 2003, 19:49

Rothy, you are a bad person. Tsk tsk.

When you said "win by Democracy" did you you mean by a UN vote? Doable, but very tough.

BigDork · March 24, 2003, 20:19

Hi everybody...

Can't you just be cheesy and give all the AI civs everything you have the turn before the vote? Yeah it's cheap but it'll get you the votes.

BigD

BigDork · March 24, 2003, 20:19

Hi everybody...

BtW, I've never won by diplomatic victory so I may not know what I'm talking about.

BigD

badams52 · March 24, 2003, 20:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus
Rothy, you are a bad person. Tsk tsk.

When you said "win by Democracy" did you you mean by a UN vote? Doable, but very tough.

I don't know about that. As long as you war when someone else declares war on you, keep your trade up, give gifts, sign ROPs, and build the UN, I don't think it's that tough.

But if you're declaring wars, razing cities, breaking trade agreements, then it's tough.

I used to be able to win diplomatically, but that was before I leaned the power of the darkside.

Sava · March 25, 2003, 13:07

Only wussies win by diplomacy

nbarclay · March 25, 2003, 14:20

Wussies and people who have enough confidence in their ability that they don't feel like they have to win by conquest or domination in order to prove themselves.

Worthingtons · March 25, 2003, 17:05

Hi , Thanks for the info there, the Civ fanatics thread was great altho it was a bit information overload the first read

It seems it's split Reputation/Attitude, Attitude is easy enough to alter with most civ's you havent directly betrayed, but reputation is absolute and I'd never be able to get a gpt deal again

I look to win by diplomacy because I have a VERY slow computer that would take me all year to win by combat. I will not enable domination , becuase if i win by that i woudnt feel i'd really 'won' ..

Catt · March 25, 2003, 23:29

I'd add my habitual $0.02 that reputation and attitude are distinct concepts with distinct rewards / penalties.

Quote:

Originally posted by nbarclay
Wussies and people who have enough confidence in their ability that they don't feel like they have to win by conquest or domination in order to prove themselves.

Again, I agree

Diplo victories are welcome victories when the game is won, but the player has some sort of aversion to just "quitting" a game (as I do

).

theNiceOne · March 26, 2003, 05:16

I agree Catt (as usual

). A game I finished yesterday was on emperor, a large archipelago map with 24 civs (3 had been eliminated). I had 1 1/2 of the two biggest continents and reached the modern age while the second best civ was still fighting with riflemen. I could've played 10+ hours more of overrunning everyone with my tanks/artillery - soon to be mordern armor, but I much prefer to start a new game. I don't want to quit a game, so the solution was to go directly for fission, keep a leader and hurry the UN for the fastest possible win.

MPatton · March 31, 2003, 15:47

How is this for bad reputation.
Maintain one real enemy.
trade with everyone else with your luxury items.
Then when you conquer your enemy off their land and force you to look for the rest attack the next closest country. Also raze every major city of your enemy. By using reputation the others are pleased to have happy citizens and are less likely to make war pacts against you and you make so more income and slow the other civs down. I did not have to lok hard for the two remaining Russian cities but everyone else is far far away.

Ephesos · March 31, 2003, 15:53

All I have to say is this. Why the heck would you offer 700 gpt?!?!? It's just going to come back and hit you later, why bother?

Oh yes, and I for one also think Diplomatic victories are more rewarding than domination and conquest victories. Unfortunately, I never get them

.

badams52 · March 31, 2003, 16:33

Quote:

Originally posted by MPatton
Also raze every major city of your enemy.

All this is going to do is add +1 to the attitude of every other civ for each raze of a city.

MPatton · March 31, 2003, 20:17

I am not working towards a diplomatic win I just don't want everyone to make war pacts on me.
With two peaceful civs left I make about 150 gold a turn in trades. I also try to keep them up to date as possible. I also hate getting disposed which is why I raze.

Konquest02 · April 2, 2003, 21:02

You might want to wipe France completely before the UN vote. That way, they won't be able to vote against you...

--Kon--

Worthingtons · April 2, 2003, 21:17

Is there any penalty for complete civilisation eradication!?? (Diplomatic of course)

Konquest02 · April 2, 2003, 21:53

I don't think so... At least, I have not seen any in the votes I've won... !

badams52 · April 3, 2003, 01:00

Aside from the standard penalties for razing cities, being at war, etc. No there isn't. But it may seem so if you have an alliance with someone against the civ you wipe out. Their attitude towards you will drop with the alliance ended.

ThePlagueRat · April 3, 2003, 07:49

Quote:

Originally posted by badams52
I don't know about that. As long as you war when someone else declares war on you, keep your trade up, give gifts, sign ROPs,
and build the UN, I don't think it's that tough.

I think it's tough when you try to be reasonable and they get pissed anyway. Some civs gets angry at you very fast, and for no diplomatically valid reason.

i.e. you refuse their greedy offer. The stupid diplomacy-AI might even DOW you based on refusal to give them huge gifts, when they should know they get their @ss kicked. Only if it was a far more poweful civ, it would be logical.

Ok, what I am wondering about now...
Has this diplo-AI become more realistic in PTW ?
(latest patch)

Mountain Sage · April 4, 2003, 05:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
Only wussies win by diplomacy

I understand it's easier just to carry a big stick around. It reminds me of one of my players in D&D. He plays a Half-Orc with tremendous strengh but not much brains

ThePlagueRat · April 4, 2003, 06:55

If he is a barbarian he can rage... Now, thats fun!

When I played AD&D, I had a Dwarven Berzerker called Thorgrimm.
He was completely mad, and one day he died in a berzerk frenzy.
Everybody knew his destiny.